A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:18 AM
Original message |
You don't go after a guy's wife to get back at a guy. |
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That's a big under-the-surface reason the American people are already turning against bushroveco.
Plus, as with Watergate, this event would be bad enough even if it were an isolated event.
But also as with Watergate, this event is merely a boil on a body that is rotten through and through.
When the Watergate investigators started looking at the break-in, they began to explore the whole rotten corpus of the Nixon Administration.
Same with the body of bushroveco-- a rotten festering bloated beast packed with corruption from head to toe.
Fitzgerald realizes by now that he is dealing with crimes and coverups that threaten not just rove or libby but the whole house of rotten bloody evil that is bushroveco.
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Not_Giving_Up
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:20 AM
Response to Original message |
1. You don't talk about a guy's mother either |
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But Cheney talked about Howard Dean's mother.
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A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. I think this one might be just a leeetle big bigger than that one. |
evlbstrd
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. This is gonna blow volcanic political pus |
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that will reverberate through history. I hope the nation can withstand it.
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Not_Giving_Up
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
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I'm just saying...they break all of the rules.
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A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. Correcto, and so far theyve gotten away with it. |
The Mafia Squirrel
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
6. One thing I'm impressed by |
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It's been frontpage news three days running here in reddest red state Idaho and the local paper hasn't been kind. They're not running pro-Bu$hCo editorials anymore, down to a little feeble trickle. Todays headline implicated Libby. I did a little dance, I'm white and uncoordinated, it wasn't pretty, but it was enthusiastic.
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A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
9. Yes, and now with the public's appetite stoked |
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every little new piece of rot is going to be instantly all over the news everywhere. Fitzgerald guarding the process & giving no press conferences etc guarantees this ongoing & growing hunger. Yum yum!
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CAcyclist
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Tue Jul-19-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
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Welcome to DU, Mafia Squirrel:hi:
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The Mafia Squirrel
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Wed Jul-20-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
The Mafia Squirrel
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Wed Jul-20-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
CAcyclist
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Wed Jul-20-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #62 |
punpirate
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
10. Well, I'm sorry, but... |
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... by that standard, I'd have to stop berating Barbara Bush. :)
She of the "beautiful mind" deserves a little bad press.
Cheers.
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ObaMania
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Tue Jul-19-05 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
15. Yeah, these f#@kers pull every dirty trick in the book.. |
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.. and these are two examples of re :puke: 's at their dirtiest.
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Tom Kitten
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:27 AM
Response to Original message |
4. yeah but we're talking reptiles here... |
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they'd eat their own children if they saw the need to...
totally cold blooded with eyes of death.
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EFerrari
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:32 AM
Response to Original message |
8. We should push this. Because they do go after the wife, |
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the adopted child (McCain), the mother.
It's not even an exaggeration. They do that, literally.
That's what bullies do, as nicknameless pointed out yesterday. Not what statesmen do, not what leaders do.
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alfredo
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
38. I posted comments on this earlier. It fell like a rock. |
A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
39. Ashamed to say I dont read LTTE posts, but yours is a good one. |
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Boom, to the point.
You asked about the first paragraph. I'd just cut it, start with "It (is/was} a cowardly act.."
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alfredo
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Tue Jul-19-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
49. Thanks. I read some to see how people are framing issues. |
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Sometimes posting them helps me to see if the letter has merit, or is just BS.
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WCGreen
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:55 AM
Response to Original message |
11. You do if you ain't got nothin' |
REP
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Tue Jul-19-05 03:00 AM
Response to Original message |
12. Their Misstep, This Time, Was Getting the Press Burned |
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Oh, I don't mean because of any noble principles of truth, or even of freedom of the press or journalistic integrity. What I'm talkng about is what Matt Taibbi was talking about, how the press corps is like high school, with the big-name papers being the popular clique. Judith Miller and Matt Cooper are in the popular clique, and as soon as they started taking heat (and in Miller's case, jail time), the press - especially the White House press corps - started acted like real journalists again. And now with Rover sayin (among other things) his source was a reporter ... well, there's a chance they've pissed off enough of the press enough to tae it personally, and not let it drop.
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A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
13. With the press turning, everything is lined up against them. |
Enraged_Ape
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
56. Their biggest mistake was throwing a loyal Bushbot to the dogs |
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Judith Miller has faithfully carried the BFEE water since Day One, and look what happened to her. Loyalty to George Bush goes one way: You better be loyal to him, but he is under no circumstances required to be loyal to you, and he would just as soon see you fry as look at you. I think the jailing of Miller has FINALLY gotten the fawning presslings to realize that.
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auburngrad82
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Tue Jul-19-05 05:52 AM
Response to Original message |
14. Organized crime does it, why shouldn't the "family" do it? |
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There are more criminals, convicted or otherwise, in the Bush administration than in any other administration in American History. It's just another crime family. Why should we expect them to behave any differently?
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rosesaylavee
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Tue Jul-19-05 06:35 AM
Response to Original message |
16. they were desperate that's why |
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Bullies have a very limited agenda... they need what they need when they need it. It worked in the past and the CM and the political crowd were too cowed or bought out to say boo. I think (ok hope) that they would have stopped at hurting a child to get their way but we may never know now. Ain't that grand?
I would be interested to know if the press corps all got together and decided to grow a collective spine. Strength in numbers sort of strategy. That will make an interesting story when this is over - look for it on the NYT bestseller list.
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tblue37
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Tue Jul-19-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
35. They went after McClain's adopted child, too, |
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so, no, they would not have stopped at going after a child.
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rosesaylavee
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Tue Jul-19-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
37. Ok so there you have it |
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They are slugs. How could I have thought so highly of them?
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DanCa
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Tue Jul-19-05 07:17 AM
Response to Original message |
17. This has got to be one of the lowest things i have ever seen |
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Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 07:19 AM by DanCa
Putting a man's wife in danger for political again. How can these people claim there for protecting innocent life is beyond me.
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Stephanie
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Tue Jul-19-05 07:20 AM
Response to Original message |
18. that's right - everybody can see that |
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People don't like to see something like that. It's low-down and dirty and dishonorable.
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mtnester
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Tue Jul-19-05 07:22 AM
Response to Original message |
19. Quite honestly, I am slightly concerned with Fitzgerald and his |
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oh man, how do I say this...OK..."health and well being"
Anyone else?
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indepat
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Tue Jul-19-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message |
20. We don't but Repukes do |
mattclearing
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Tue Jul-19-05 07:46 AM
Response to Original message |
21. Well, if Fitzgerald sees the defense contracts, the conflicts of interest, |
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Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 07:46 AM by tasteblind
and the falsified case for war, and comes to the conclusion that there was a massive fraud perpetrated on the American people, then all hell would certainly break loose.
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electron_blue
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Tue Jul-19-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message |
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Much less, put her in possible harm's way. I think this is a big issue that is understood by many Americans, but not talked about yet.
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bonzotex
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Tue Jul-19-05 08:24 AM
Response to Original message |
23. It never made much sense to out Valerie Plame anyway... |
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The 800lb gorilla in the room is why Rove, Cheney and the White House handlers outed Valerie Plame in the first place?
It wasn't going to shut up or discredit Wilson. They knew this guy, his history and bio. They knew he wouldn't roll over and take it like a good Republican whore.
It wasn't going to screw him over. His beloved wife gets to spend more time at home and she could stop hiding her real job.
It wasn't very good misdirection to take the heat off serious scrutiny of the lies to War. The press was already lapping up Bushco's spin.
It wasn't going to divert attention from the White House's selective and questionable use of intelligence. It actually put the spotlight more on the decision making tree at the White House.
The only rationale that makes sense is that it was an opportunity to shut down Valerie Plame and torpedo any investigations she was working on. This is not being discussed in any real way during this "scandal". Valerie was the target here, not Joe Wilson. I think Bushco is relying on the CIA to keep her projects under a shroud of secrecy so the real reason she had to be torpedoed will never come out.
Let's hope there are some patriots at the CIA that won't let this die.
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tabasco
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
27. Because they were desperate to launch the Iraq war. |
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There were billions of dollars at stake for Halliburton and the other profiteers. The PNAC agenda of world domination was at stake.
This is a case of greed and arrogance overcoming good sense.
I hope it causes the downfall of his evil and corrupt regime.
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bonzotex
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
29. Was Valerie investigating the Corporate Money ties? |
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It would appear her "cover" at Brewster Jennings was about tracking money flow in the Middle East Oil biz. Maybe she was getting a little too close to the Corporations and Saudi princes that were licking their chops over Iraq war profits?
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tabasco
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
34. Wilson was exposing Bush's Niger yellowcake fraud. |
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During the lead up to the war, Bush, Condi ("we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"), etc. wanted the gullible to believe Saddam had nukes or was working on them.
Wilson exposed the hoax.
The fearmongers couldn't stand it.
They only went after Plame to hurt Wilson.
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bonzotex
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
43. I still think there is more to it,,, |
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I think it's worse than just petty revenge.
Wilson was exposing just one small part of the carpet of WMD lies that the Admin was rolling out. They could have just admitted that the yellowcake sale evidence in that particular instance was weak and bulldozed on with all the other "evidence". They could have just said Wilson didn't talk to the right people, blah blah...Saddam wanted nukes etc. That is what they did anyway. Why out Valerie Plame just to discredit Wilson? As it turns out, it didn't discredit him at all but rather kept the story smoldering.
It was a big risk for little if any reward. Why do it? Maybe it was just a dumb vindictive move by Rove and company? If the goal was not solely to discredit Wilson but rather shut up and neutralize Valerie Plame then it starts to make more sense.
I'm not a big conspiracy buff, but there is more here and more people involved with other motives than just Karl and Scooter being nasty bitches. Valerie Plame is not talking to the press, but she has a story and I predict we'll hear it as part of the indictments in this case.
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CAcyclist
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Tue Jul-19-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
51. To Stop Other CIA Agents From Leaking Evidence About The Bush Admin. |
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I can't remember the editorial but I read that conclusion today and I think it's the most likely one.
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bonzotex
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Tue Jul-19-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
52. That makes sense too.... |
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Consider how Bushco has rushed in idealogues into the CIA following Tenet's departure. They are trying to keep a lid on the CIA. Somebody knows way too much.
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anarch
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
41. greed and arrogance taken to amazing new levels |
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"This is a case of greed and arrogance overcoming good sense."
That strikes me as a decent assessment of the entire PNAC agenda.
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Enraged_Ape
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
58. Give bonzotex a prize |
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You are, of course, absolutely right. This whole slimy project was designed to shut down an intelligence-gathering operation that could determine the real truth about Bush's phony WMD claims. When Wilson (and presumably, his wife) demonstrated that honesty was more important than war, it was time to shut them BOTH down. I have no doubt that the next step was to PLANT weapons in Iraq, but for some reason that never panned out.
Bush, Cheney, et al were trying to close the eyes and ears of our global WMD intelligence so that they could get their war on. It's just obvious. Any other explanation as to why they did this to the Wilsons is at best porous and at worst ridiculous.
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tx_dem41
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Tue Jul-19-05 08:25 AM
Response to Original message |
24. Does that mean comments on DU about "Pickles" are verboten? n/t |
nothingshocksmeanymore
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
28. And that compares with outing a CIA agent how? |
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Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 09:43 AM by nothingshocksmeanymo
One is knocking a person who repeatedly claims to not want to be in the political spotlight then defends Rove...the other is putting an agent and everyone she ever worked with in danger....so I am simply curious about how you could draw any comparison. :shrug:
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tx_dem41
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
31. Just responding to the title of the OP...... |
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Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 09:48 AM by tx_dem41
I agree that one is worse than the other. But, both share a certain classlessness that reflects on the user, nonetheless.
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The_Mule
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Tue Jul-19-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message |
25. "Political Terrorism"... |
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to coin a term.
Just as physical terrorists target "civilians" to generate fear to use as leverage to push their agenda, so has the Bush administration targeted wives, mothers, and children to push their agenda.
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tk2kewl
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message |
26. Family Values... Sanctity of Marriage |
Stephanie
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message |
30. It's About the Most Cowardly Thing You Can Do |
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And that's the bottom line and the thread that ties all these chickenhawks together - COWARDS, every one.
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librechik
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:51 AM
Response to Original message |
32. yeah,first you say that, then you say "A REAL MAN would fire Roveski" |
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hit em with the ol one two.
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dogday
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Tue Jul-19-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message |
33. There is always one reporter who asks about |
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how this has affected the Wilson Family? Scott does not want to even hear that question. The question alone is so damaging.
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ComerPerro
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Tue Jul-19-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message |
36. To me, the Plame thing is all about one thing: They lied about WMD |
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Rove felt the need to exact vengeance because Wilson exposed the lies
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ComerPerro
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message |
40. Cowards do. Look what they did to Hillary |
Canuckistanian
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:36 PM
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42. Rove said she was 'fair game' because Wilson donated to Dems |
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So he brought it on himself.
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IChing
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message |
44. REVENGERERS A NEW MAGAZINE |
A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
maveric
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:52 PM
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45. Bumper sticker from 70's "Nixon is a Dirty Cox Sacker". |
mondo joe
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Tue Jul-19-05 01:54 PM
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46. A Low Point Even for the GOP Mafia. |
blogslut
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message |
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This is THE talking point.
They went after the man's wife.
Try it. Please, everyone.
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Fleshdancer
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Tue Jul-19-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message |
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Also, if you have no honor, no sense of respect, and no character that would lead you to attack a man's wife for political revenge (or for any reason) or to cover for a "friend" who has, then take off the cowboy boots, the buckle, and the hat because a grown man playing dress-up is just embarrassing. Cowboys, real cowboys, would never put up with this dishonorable bs.
All hat and no cattle.
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Disturbed
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
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Discredit Wilson and neutralize Valerie Plame's covert Op.
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Hubert Flottz
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message |
54. You might not...but Nazis and the mafia did! |
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You aren't dealing with people that are on the up and up or law abiding! You are dealing with thives and murderers.
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A-Schwarzenegger
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
55. Yes, the Amer. people will put up with thieves & murderers in the WH, |
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but they draw the line at going after a guy's wife. That's my point.
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Hubert Flottz
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
60. It's a very good point! |
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Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 04:33 PM by Hubert Flottz
But the sad part is it's the damned truth. Most people don't put forth the effort to look any farther than the end of their noses for "Truth". If they hear it on TV, it's the gospel truth to them! WE are in DEEP DOO-DOO, because we've all been doped and duped by the propaganda wing of corporate America!
It really isn't nice to torture, rape and kill, defenseless, unarmed, prisoners, but but Americans stood by and did, or said anything about that either, because it never cost them a dime, or never threatened they're family directly! We have a huge block of people in the US, who are numb from the neck up! Headupyourassedness, is taking it's toll on civilized conduct in America and It's from the top down just like Abu Ghraib was.
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Blue_In_AK
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Tue Jul-19-05 04:30 PM
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59. This is exactly the point |
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I was making to my husband last night. He was expressing concern that with the upcoming SCOTUS nomination, etc. that the Rove issue would slip away, just as the stolen elections, Gannon, DSM, etc. etc. seem to have done. But my opinion is that now that people are beginning to see that the ** administration has clearly lied and attempted to cover up this issue of the leak of Ms. Wilson's name, they will be much more receptive to all that has gone before. Maybe people had difficulty getting their minds around the idea that ** could have stolen two elections or could have manufactured intelligence to justify his invasion of Iraq...maybe they thought all those "rumors" were too outrageous, were just Democratic spin, the whining of "sore losers"...but I don't see how anyone but the most partisan rabid right-wingers could dispute the fact that the WH has lied and lied and lied in its attempt to cover up this leak. It makes everything else seem so much more plausible -- indeed, probable. Thankfully we have had a lot of media coverage on this -- so EVERYBODY knows. We need to keep reminding people of all the other scandals so that the enormity of the "big picture" emerges.
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