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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 12:57 PM
Original message
Please understand this quote from Michael Ledeen....
In his 2002 book The War Against the Terror Masters, in a rare moment of unguarded intellectual honesty, neocon guru Michael Ledeen unwittingly let slip what is probably the best two-word description of the underlying agenda that has been pursued by the neocons over the last several years and is ongoing today: "Creative destruction."

"Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our own society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity, which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. … They must attack us in order to survive, just as we must destroy them to advance our historic mission."

...and this from Wiki

Ledeen holds a PhD from the University of Wisconsin, where he specialized in the comparative history of German and Italian fascism. One of Ledeen's principal mentors was the German-born historian George Mosse

...if Patrick Fitzgerald is looking at this monster, we will have caught one of the truly bad guys.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ledeen is one of Rove's mentors.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 01:15 PM by formercia
They communicate on a regular basis.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3027ledeen_iran.html

This will open your eyes.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I absolutely agree
he is a monster indeed and one of the main policy makers of this administration. The media had an obligation to reveal this individual to the public and his influence over this administration.

Sen. Byrd first brought him to my attention, when he made a speech in the Senate a few years ago, begging them to read Ledeen's book (which I believe he passed around the Senate, so they cannot say they did not know about this). He warned them to first read his writings and to not allow this kind of philosophy to infiltrate US policy any further. He was ignored, though. But I do remember after that, checking out Ledeen and being truly horrified.

More needs to be eposed about him and questions asked about his role in the Iraq War. Recently it was revealed that he was in Italy around the time the forged Niger documents surfaced there.

As you say, if Fitzgerald nails him, he will have nailed a really bad guy.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is a scary quote, confirming who or what they are
they are fascists, and as such they could very quickly reach the horrors of the Nazi state as well. No wonder they recoil at being called what they are
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. yep, they want death camps for liberals, Muslims, and gays
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VioletLake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just tearin' it all down...
Too bad they only have shit to rebuild with. Yes indeed, they're tearin' it all down and building us a shiny shit city on a hill.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe one of his relatives (daughter or son) was put in charge of the
finances in Iraq (with zero financial experience of course), hand picked from the youth corp of the Heritage Foundation. Under that Ledeen's watch, 9 billion dollars went missing. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm? Can't remember all the details but before the election Al Franken was talking about it on air, expressing incredulity that two young people (can't remember who the other one was) were in charge of monetary responsibilities for Iraq.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. And doing it under the guise of christianity.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. he's a big Iran fabricator
He pushes the need for a confrontation with them all the time.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. The term was coined by Harvard economist Jos. Schumpeter
Schumpeter was a highly influential post-classical economist who wanted to combine elements of capitalism, socialism and fascism into a post-capitalist system. Along with Strauss, and Pareto, he is a seminal figure for neocons.

transcriptions.english.ucsb.edu/archive/ courses/liu/english25/materials/schumpeter.html

Joseph A. Schumpeter "Creative Destruction". From Capitalism, Socialism and
Democracy (New York: Harper, 1975) , pp. 82-85: ...


"Capitalism, then, is by nature a form or method of economic change and not only never is but never can be stationary. And this evolutionary character of the capitalist process is not merely due to the fact that economic life goes on in a social and natural environment which changes and by its change alters the data of economic action; this fact is important and these changes (wars, revolutions and so on) often condition industrial change, but they are not its prime movers. Nor is this evolutionary character due to a quasi-automatic increase in population and capital or to the vagaries of monetary systems, of which exactly the same thing holds true. The fundamental impulse that sets and keeps the capitalist engine in motion comes from the new consumers, goods, the new methods of production or transportation, the new markets, the new forms of industrial organization that capitalist enterprise creates.

As we have seen in the preceding chapter, the contents of the laborer's budget, say from 1760 to 1940, did not simply grow on unchanging lines but they underwent a process of qualitative change. Similarly, the history of the productive apparatus of a typical farm, from the beginnings of the rationalization of crop rotation, plowing and fattening to the mechanized thing of today–linking up with elevators and railroads–is a history of revolutions. So is the history of the productive apparatus of the iron and steel industry from the charcoal furnace to our own type of furnace, or the history of the apparatus of power production from the overshot water wheel to the modern power plant, or the history of transportation from the mailcoach to the airplane. The opening up of new markets, foreign or domestic, and the organizational development from the craft shop and factory to such concerns as U.S. Steel illustrate the same process of industrial mutation–if I may use that biological term–that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one. This process of Creative Destruction is the essential fact about capitalism. It is what capitalism consists in and what every capitalist concern has got to live in. . . .

Every piece of business strategy acquires its true significance only against the background of that process and within the situation created by it. It must be seen in its role in the perennial gale of creative destruction; it cannot be understood irrespective of it or, in fact, on the hypothesis that there is a perennial lull. . . .

The first thing to go is the traditional conception of the modus operandi of competition. Economists are at long last emerging from the stage in which price competition was all they saw.

SNIP

Also see, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. More from Ledeen: "the leader may have to 'enter into evil'" to do good
From his book Universal Fascism:

"In order to achieve the most noble accomplishments, the leader may have to 'enter into evil.' This is the chilling insight that has made Machiavelli so feared, admired and challenging... we are rotten.... It’s true that we can achieve greatness if, and only if, we are properly led."

About Italian fascism:

"...fascism nevertheless constituted a political revolution in Italy. For the first time, there was an attempt to mobilize the masses and to involve them in the political life of the country."

And on Mussolini:

"He never had enough confidence in the Italian people to permit them a genuine participation in fascism."

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/yellow-cake-and-black-shirts.html
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. "a genuine participation in fascism"?!!!!!
I think Mike is too close to his subject. Let's take a wider view of the effects of genuine participation in fascism:


London, 1941
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. What exactly is their mission.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 01:21 PM by dbonds
I assume from what I see, and only what I see. That it is a neocon version of a christian world. Where there is a class system, they think some people are better genetically and they should be the rulers just because they are better at it. It is a world where businesses are allowed to stamp on all the rights of the lower classes. The lower classes are only there to be herded to working for the upper class and to support any power battles between them.

Is this close? What else do they want? And why do people buy into it? (are they told they are part of the genetically superior and will be the upper class?)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Corporate aristocracy
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 04:34 PM by nadinbrzezinski
that is waht they want... democracy is truly evil, they believe
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. I can only hope that he will be run out of the US
as quickly as possible. And take all the other PNACers with ya!
:mad:
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spuddonna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. "Creative destruction", huh?
I guess that's what you could call Iraq... and our economic mess... and the tattered shards of our Constitution... destruction of true free speech and the press... the new power's the govt has to seize and search without due process...

Yeah, I think creative destruction is quite a good acronym for the Bush Admin's policies...
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