CIA: What are your views?

[Terran1212]

I personally think they are the most out of control spy agency in the world. They regularly take part in kidnapping, murder, torture, and incendiary terrorism. I despise almost everything they do. A part of me is happy they rejected my sister after several years of interviews. I'd never want her working for people like them.

I sometimes wonder if many of these insurgent attacks which are being launched in Iraq (especially the ones against civilian targets) are actually being organized and put into action by the CIA. Destabilizing Iraq would be in the favor of Washington.

But of course, any serious infractions of international law by the CIA are ignored and stored in a file with CLASSIFIED stamped on the front -- not to be opened for 35 years.

Anyone else feel the way I do?

[LaurenG]

1. I knew someone once who's ex was CIA

they used her briefly as well. The poor thing was scared to death to talk about it. She said when she left they did a debriefing kind of thing and told her that they'd always be watching, always. She believed them and kept her mouth shut.

edit spelling, again.

[Zynx]

2. "Most out of control spy agency in the world"

Not true. KGB and its successors - SVR and FSB - were and are much worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. No

they are not different from any other spy agency around the world, nor as out of control as you think they are.

In fact most of what spy agencies do, (still classified eyes only by the way) does not involve assasinations or kidnappings... but silly things like trying to keep you safe from bad actors with access to things like oh WMDs... the Aji Khan Nuclear spreading.

Now has the CIA been invilved in what you list? Absolutely, so has every other spy agency around the world.

Oh and reality is those wars in the shadows tend to be far more unbelievable than the open ones...

[QuettaKid]

7. spekaing of unbelievable....

have you seen this!?!?

""When I ask if he is brilliant, he says no. He's just an ordinary, self-taught techie. And, he says, he was never alone. "Once you're on the network, you can do a command called NetStat - Network Status - and it lists all the connections to that machine. There were hackers from Denmark, Italy, Germany, Turkey, Thailand."

"All on at once?" I ask. "You could see hackers from all over the world, snooping around, without the spaceniks or the military realising?"

"Every night," he says.

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?"

"I found a list of officers' names," he says, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'. It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is not Earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US Navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe." ""

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology
/the-nerd-who-saw-too-much/2005/07/12/
1120934245512.html?oneclick=true

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Cool so we have an FTL drive too?

may be interesting for the fiction I am in the process of writing.

;-)

[Just Me]

4. Like any institution, it has both good and bad.

What can I say?

[lvx35]

27. Exaclty: Institutions are composed of individuals.

Accurate and factual information is the most important thing america can have, and Bush has declared war on factual information in the lead up to Iraq. The Soviets did the same thing in their time, they created a situation where reporting, say, a grain shortage would be considered treason, even if it was true, and it literally brought them down. Glasnost and Peristroika were the last ditch too late efforts to fix the system, the USSR was screwed before that, just like china got screwed with Mao's great leap forward!China's recent history could be called "recovery from Mao" in many ways. Now Bush is following those brave traditions of Mao et al.

[JuniperLea]

5. necessary evil

is how i see it. i don't agree on a lot of things they do or how they keep the lid on information for so long, but as far as the work wilson was doing, you betcha. we need operatives like that who can suss out information. it certainly isn't all james bondish like we have been led to believe, but what are we to do?

[AuntiBush]

6. Well, If They'll Get this Damn Neo-Thugs Out of Office

I'll give them a kindly American nod for risking their lives daily for us. Now, the other CIA's that came in with this administration... well, I don't equate them as American loyalists, rather high-paid Media Whores.

[politicaholic]

8. Lack of communication and scruples makes a bad combo...

Sure, they're horrible, but from what I understand they're only the face of American covert operations. Rummy has a much scarier gig going on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29414-2005Jan22.html

Secret Unit Expands Rumsfeld's Domain
New Espionage Branch Delving Into CIA Territory

By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 23, 2005; Page A01

The Pentagon, expanding into the CIA's historic bailiwick, has created a new espionage arm and is reinterpreting U.S. law to give Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld broad authority over clandestine operations abroad, according to interviews with participants and documents obtained by The Washington Post.

The previously undisclosed organization, called the Strategic Support Branch, arose from Rumsfeld's written order to end his "near total dependence on CIA" for what is known as human intelligence. Designed to operate without detection and under the defense secretary's direct control, the Strategic Support Branch deploys small teams of case officers, linguists, interrogators and technical specialists alongside newly empowered special operations forces.

:scared:

[wli]

13. word was Boykin's heading the death squads

[leftofthedial]

9. out of control and thoroughly politicized

a large wing is part of the current ruling RW junta (BFEE, bushgang, neocon cabal--whatever you want to call it). They will do *anything* to further their cause.

another powerful contingent is in the service of capitalists and capitalism (not America), for example, Carlyle Group. This group's interests overlap, but do not fully coincide with the first group's interests. They, too, will do *anything* in the service of those with the money.

an increasingly small, weak group is the professional intelligence gatherers, who believe only through excellent intelligence can America prosper.

most are drones, cynically doing what they are told by whomever holds the upper hand at the moment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. You do realize that the DCI is not invited to

NSA meetings anymore since they are not considered trusth worthy any more by the BFEE

[leftofthedial]

18. civil war between group 1 and groups 2 and 3

chaos

[K-W]

10. It shouldnt be in the executive branch.

We should have an intelligence agency, but it should answer to congress and have severe oversight and a firewall to prevent political corruption.

[Squatch]

11. Wouldn't mind working for them, but my

pot habit kinda turned them off to me.

On edit: habitual habit?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. A bunch of murderous, fascist, thugs who should be in the dock.

All one has to do is look at the historical record of what they've done.

They should have been disbanded long ago, just like their offspring the School for the Americas.

[Straight Shooter]

16. You've got to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Who is telling the CIA to engage in disastrous covert operations? They're getting their orders from someone, or at least it's a mutual directive. Whenever the CIA's hands are bloody, look to the "leaders" and see who else has bloody hands.

There will always be people ready, willing and able to play dirty. But the CIA also has plenty of individuals who are truly determined to keep America safe. We need them, and they need to know that we won't allow them to be betrayed without punishing the offenders. Remember, a lot of CIA personnel put their lives on the line.

[bloom]

17. They are probably the most out of control

because they have the most money and the US is the most imperialistic.

Who know what all goes on between them and Pakistan's ISI and Italy's SISMI, etc.

[lvx35]

22. CIA has the most money?

My understanding is that NSA is way more well funed, or at least that was the case before the budgets got classified, years ago.

[bloom]

32. I was thinking

about US intelligence services as a whole. I don't know how much overlap there is between all of the things - to me it all runs together.

I've heard that the NSA is larger also.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. I suspect it depends on the players.

You might recall that CIA analysts were repeatedly saying there were no WMDs in Iraq. They were quite clear on it, until Tenet changed the story from the top down.

No doubt there are some bad eggs in the carton - it's a shadow world that defies close scrutiny, and in that environment abuses can thrive if the leadership allows it. The CIA was involved in many dirty little wars, in overthrowing governments that they were told were hostile, and quite likely in assassinating, or facilitating the assassination of foreign threats.

But there are also, no doubt, genuine patriots there as well, people doing their best to serve their country with little notice and to no acclaim when the job goes right, people like Joe Wilson's wife. Like those being purged by Goss, as we speak.

This administration is going to poison the well for years to come, removing moderate, pragmatic voices and promoting ideological warriors within the agency. Very possibly the 2nd most lasting contribution to America's future, after the packing of the Supreme Court.

[Terran1212]

21. I agree with much of you said -- but what makes wilson's wife a "patriot"?

We don't even know what kind of operations she was involved in.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. That's true, but I go by the old adage that you know people

by their enemies.

If Bushco was willing to destroy her career, she was probably one of the good guys.

[spanone]

20. Don't forget that Bush sr. was HEAD of the CIA.

[Jara sang]

23. I was just down at the National Archives yesterday

Looking through the CIAs database of declassified material. The big one out now is PROJECT STARGATE aka GRILL FLAME, CENTER LANE, and SUN STREAK, it was the CIAs attempt to employ psychic spies using techniques known as 'remote viewing'. My friend and I left there shaking our heads in utter disbelief, the entire project seems like a huge disinformation campaign, toward what ends I can only speculate. Per haps it was a way to allocate funding for other super secret back op programs. It is interesting none the less.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Ah yes but imagine the use of this

by us sci fi writers

;-)

[sintax]

24. Evil to the Core- Dulles, Bush, etc.

Killing Hope by William Blum

Read this book for the seminal treatment on the CIA's murderous record for the past 50 years. it's all there in black and white all on the public record. OK not all but the stuff Blum couldn't get access to is even more sinister.

Millions of lives destroyed by the CIA in Latin America. Million(s) being a low estimate.

[lvx35]

28. Millions destroyed by bad policies.

The purpose of the agency, which is to gather accurate information for American leaders to make policy, is noble. The policies they are forced to carry out are a different fish...
I mean look at it this way. Do you hate the military because of the Abu Graib scandal? Whoever you believe, its still either a matter of a few bad apples (republican) or bad policies from the pentagon. (democrat) Poor Neighborhood Joe who joined the army to get his college money and defend our country is not our enemy, and neither is a CIA agent who conducts themselves honorably.

[sintax]

29. Bad policies are carried out

by people. everyone shares in the responsibility to varying degrees of course.

It's not a matter of a few bad apples lest there wouldn't be countless instances.

those who went through School of Americas for instance knew what they were involved in.

The CIA's record speaks for itself.

A Policy is an abstraction and an easy out.

[Karenina]

30. It's all about securing

Amerikkkan economic hegemony. Read "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler.

[lvx35]

31. hummph.

"It's not a matter of a few bad apples lest there wouldn't be countless instances. "

Yes, like Abu Grain abuse, its a matter of policy.

"those who went through School of Americas for instance knew what they were involved in."

Minds are weak. They knew they were involved in keeping south america free, safe from the threat of "Global Communism", and making mad dinero to boot. They indoctrinate the principles of Machiavelli and the mind becomes weak, so that killing randomly becomes a "necessary action" for the greater good. But the Machiavellian policies at the high level continue, so the low level ramification, like death squads, continue.

"A Policy is an abstraction and an easy out."

Yes, it is, God bless it! Imagine if George Bush had demanded Saddam Hussein comply or change certain policies instead of annoncing the whole country part was evil and must be destroyed. How much less enemies we have today!

[MattSWin]

33. It's hard to say....

I'm not convinced they do anything remarkably worse than what the military does.

I think the CIA is about 5% covert ops and 95% hands off intelligence collecting operations. I don't think the James Bond or Iran-Contra type things are that common.

Dirty ops, drug running, killing, and other out of control things are probably committed without approval of CIA higher-ups. Iran-Contra certainly wasn't approved by the CIA.