Kerry (FINALLY) raises question: Was BUSH involved in Plame leak????

[jackstraw45]

(At BLM's suggestion, I've moved this info from his thread where I posted it.)

Kerry's letter, found at www.johnkerry.com/firerove , raises the possibility of BUSH'S OWN INVOLVEMENT!

I think this is VERY significant language since the corporate media hasn't event raised the possibility that Bush's closest advisor might have discussed this illegal act with him. In fact, they've been extra careful to even raise the possibility that the man who tells Bush everything he needs to know never told him about this.

Quote in this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=2&u=/nm/20050719/pl_nm/bush_leak_dc

"The president should not wait to find out whether Rove is convicted in the end for his leak. Either Rove lied to the president about this matter of national security, which means he should be fired immediately, or the president is not being straight with the American people about his own involvement,"

I love the smell of impeachment in the morning....

[LittleClarkie]

1. Do you mean finally as in

somebody finally said it. Or you were waiting for Kerry specifically?

[blm]

4. Finally, as in someone FINALLY mentions it publicly.

Remember Wilson and Kerry have been aligned for a few years now. Kerry is a known bulldog at investigations.

Kerry wouldn't SAY this if it was mere speculation.

[David Zephyr]

27. Points to Kerry. He said it first and he's right, of course.

:thumbsup:

[jayctravis]

63. He's good at holding his cards.

This frustrates a lot of people.

[jackstraw45]

9. Finally somebody (in govt or media) said it

DU has been talking about this for years..YEARS!

*shakes head*

Amazing how our media and government have their heads up their own asses so much of the time.

[ClusterFreak]

2. ...it smells like......victory! LOL!!

[Disturbed]

5. The Prez and VP are smack in the middle of the muck.

It's a Cover Up and Bigger Than Watergate. The RW Machine is on full Attack Mode because this could topple the Bush Regime and be a disaster for the Rethugs running for election or re-election in '06. They are on the Offensive like never before to stop the bleeding.

[Rosco T.]

3. Tactics....

... he waited till Chimpy..

(wait for it....)


FLIP-FLOPPED on firing people 'involved' vs 'convicted'.

Since the Chimp can't be 'convicted' by a court he had to cover his butt.

Tactics...

[jsamuel]

6. Clap 0.o

[LittleClarkie]

7. Clap

I had to add a second one. I was reminded of "Laugh In" just looking at the one clap sitting there by itself, waiting for the second one to come along all slow like.

[Imagevision]

36. A reporter should put the question to Bush - "did you know??

about outing Valerie Plame? watch Bush's eyes go nutz then!

[DemonFighterLives]

8. Maybe I'm confused

The link goes to a letter to sign on which is a different letter.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2005_07_13.html

The one at this link is different as well.

clip...

"It is now evident, through email and through other sources, that Karl Rove released information to a reporter which made it patently clear who Valerie Plame was -- blowing her cover as a covert operative and endangering her, those she works with, and any foreign intelligence sources she may have had. It has been the stated policy of the White House for the past two years that they would fire anyone who released that information.

"Then the question is what are the White House's fundamental values? Is it the value of day-to-day politics, the value of political advice? Is the value of Karl Rove's position greater than the value of the national security of our country? Is he more important than the protection of the identity of CIA agents or even George Bush's own word?

"The White House's credibility is at issue here, and I believe very clearly that Karl Rove ought to be fired."

:shrug:

Still good to keep the story alive.

[blm]

18. Here's the new letter. The poster sent you to his earlier petition

to fire Rove which is tagged at the end.



From Kerry's email:

How many more times will Karl Rove make President Bush eat his words and shred his credibility before Karl Rove does the honorable thing and leaves the White House?

Yesterday the President furiously backpedaled from his promise to fire anyone involved in leaking the identity of a covert CIA agent to the press. Now that it's known that Rove and Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis Libby were involved, the President has lowered the bar and now says he'll only fire someone who is convicted of a crime.

President Bush is setting a terrible standard of leadership in the White House by protecting insubordinate aides who refused to come forward when the President demanded to know who in his administration leaked Valerie Plame's identity -- and he's sending a disturbing message about our national security.

The President should not wait to find out whether Rove is convicted in the end for his leak. Either Rove lied to the President about this matter of national security, which means he should be fired immediately, or the President is not being straight with the American people about his own involvement in this case.

With all the dissembling coming out of the White House, it's clear that the only way the American people can get to the bottom of this is through full Congressional hearings. I will call for hearings this week -- and you can strengthen this call by adding your name to our petition today:

http://www.johnkerry.com/firerove

[DemonFighterLives]

55. Thank you , I knew I just wasn't finding it

I'm signing on.

:hide:

[understandinglife]

10. I wrote him as soon as I received a copy of this 'firerove' email and ...

... thanked him and sent him a copy of this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4130407

I also asked him to meet with those members of the Congress whom he trusts and urge them to block the recess on August 1. I think it would be an exceptional mechanism by which to bring every citizen in America to face the devasting threat from within being waged by Bush and his neoconster gang.

I am going to post this as a DU Activism potential goal, shortly.


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[bleever]

60. I have to say

Damn, UL, you're great.

:yourock:

Let's drive the sharpest instrument into the most vulnerable part of this beast, with the utmost skill and unrelenting effort.

[kestrel91316]

68. Veterinarian here, good at using a sharp blade on ...............

all manner of beasts. I am making my services available gratis if you want any help going after vulnerable beasts. I know my anatomy, lol!

(Agent Mike, don't get your tighty whities in a twist. This is sarcasm and does not make reference to human beings, just beasts.)

[understandinglife]

69. "Let's drive the sharpest instrument into the most vulnerable part of this

... beast, with the utmost skill and unrelenting effort.

The instrument is 'the truth'; and the driver is 'We The People.' The beast will be slain.

Thanks bleever!

Right here with you, all the time, and - "I do believe"!!


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Stirk]

11. This really reminds me of all the Reagan-era "what did the

president know, and when did he know it" stuff we heard during Iran-Contra. I have the same opinion now that I had then; who cares? He's the President, and he's responsible for the actions of his goons.

[jackstraw45]

14. Remember...it's about Iraq, 1700+ Americans dead.....

Cheney at the CIA twisting arms for false conclusions, George "Slam Dunk" Tenet getting the medal of freedom, Yellow Cake, mushroom cloud, "we know where they are...in the area around Tekrit," Powell at the UN, LIES LIES LIES and more LIES and revenge.

Watergate has NOTHING on this criminal administration.

All for the love of $$$ and oil and revenge.

[midnight armadillo]

12. Could this be considered treason?

Imagine, Bush convicted of treason. Oh, the irony...that's a capital crime, after all.

I haven't heard 'treason' flung about in public yet wrt the Plame case, although Ted Rall makes a good case for it in a recent column.

[wli]

13. about time

[Zen Democrat]

15. I remember the night Nixon went on TV and fired Haldeman and Ehrlichman

As soon as it was over, Daniel Schorr, then of CBS, said something like ... "I think we can expect to hear murmurings of impeachment" and the newsman he was talking with said "Well, that's certainly not going to happen."

Ha Ha Ha

[Liberaler]

16. Dubya took a Nixon!

It wouldn't surprise me if the clown is behind this, allthough, I think the whole plan is Rove's. Dubya don't have the braincapacity to concoct such a plan, but I'm sure Rove discussed it in the Oval office.

[crikkett]

17. perhaps you found a draft?

Could that be why your links go to a difft letter?

:shrug:

[blm]

19. Here's the new letter in full.

The link was a tag on to sign his earlier petirtion to fire Rove.

From Kerry's email:

How many more times will Karl Rove make President Bush eat his words and shred his credibility before Karl Rove does the honorable thing and leaves the White House?

Yesterday the President furiously backpedaled from his promise to fire anyone involved in leaking the identity of a covert CIA agent to the press. Now that it's known that Rove and Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis Libby were involved, the President has lowered the bar and now says he'll only fire someone who is convicted of a crime.

President Bush is setting a terrible standard of leadership in the White House by protecting insubordinate aides who refused to come forward when the President demanded to know who in his administration leaked Valerie Plame's identity -- and he's sending a disturbing message about our national security.

The President should not wait to find out whether Rove is convicted in the end for his leak. Either Rove lied to the President about this matter of national security, which means he should be fired immediately, or the President is not being straight with the American people about his own involvement in this case.

With all the dissembling coming out of the White House, it's clear that the only way the American people can get to the bottom of this is through full Congressional hearings. I will call for hearings this week -- and you can strengthen this call by adding your name to our petition today:

http://www.johnkerry.com/firerove

[jackstraw45]

20. My mistake..I pulled the quote from a reuters article

now linked in the main part of the post.

They claim it's from his letter but it must be from a press release.

[blm]

21. Thanks. I didn't see the Yahoo article.

..

[faithnotgreed]

22. glad to see this on yahoo. and it ends with kerry getting in

a decent shot against bush

[blm]

28. Rate the article up...it's at 4 1/2 stars right now....woohoo....

.

[faithnotgreed]

67. sounds good~

[deacon]

23. Bush is DEFINETLY involved in the cover-up- switching positions

and moving up the court nomination proves it.

[jackstraw45]

26. Whether it's putting American lives at risk...

...or smearing someone...or nominating someone to the highest court in the land, EVERY decision in this White House puts politics first and the people second.

[kestrel91316]

70. Preserve, protect, and defend theConstitution, my ......................

AS-!!!!!!!!

:evilfrown: :mad: :argh: :grr: :banghead:

[deacon]

24. Also, somebody gave rove and libby the marching orders so

if you believe bush is president, he needs to be included-if you really believe cheney is president--then it would be him.

[Vincardog]

25. What the hell lets get them both. nt

[blm]

30. heheh...and you're probably dead on right, in a Daily Show kinda way.

.

[against all enemies]

29. Is Kerry the voice of the Democrats? If so we are in big trouble.

I appreciate the effort but many people hit the off button as soon as he comes on. He is not the answer. But the question is "Who should be the front man/woman for the Democrats?" Need someone that doesn't turn off independent voters but can hammer home the party's philosophy (if they can agree on one). Any suggestions?

[jackstraw45]

31. Should be someone NOT in Congress now

an elder statesman with no vested interest. The media portrays is as "democrat strategy" when it's really high crimes against our constitution.

Are there ANY dems who haven't been smeared who aren't currently in office AND are still alive? :)

Jimmy Carter (would never do it)?
Bob Graham?
Gary Hart?

[politicasista]

Who do you suggest then?

Since you are ABK. Anyone but Kerry. At least he is one of the more visible Dems senators. Just curious.

[against all enemies]

72. Don't know and that's the problem. No great answer.

Waiting for the future of the Democratic party, not the past.

[blm]

37. Kerry won the independent vote. And Dems do have a strong philosophy

and platform - they just don't own or control most of the media the way the GOP does.

[imenja]

32. This is a mistake

One thing Rove has always done is use proxies when raising inflammatory subjects. The Dems, Dean and Kerry in particular, need to learn how to do that. The story gets planted, the issue raised, but then they can claim to be beyond the fray.

[jackstraw45]

33. Maybe Kerry IS the proxy...doubt he'll run in 2008

Think about it...any Dem who steps forward to talk about this gets smeared.

Kerry already HAS been smeared for the past 2 years.

Still, I'd like to see an elder statesman, not in Congress and not able to be smeared, be a voice in this.

[imenja]

34. he doesn't know it

he's playing to the Democratic base now. Notice he didn't make the statement before the TV cameras.
Kerry is running for pres. You might be right that he's a useful proxy, but he doesn't know it. When the GOP does this they generally use non-politicians, like the Swift boat vets. It has worked well for them.
It's time Dems figured this one out.

[jackstraw45]

35. I agree...WELL past the time Dems in Congress figured a lot out

1998, 2000, 2002 & 2004 elections are prime examples.

[blm]

39. Horseshit. Kerry has been aligned with Wilson for a few years now. This

has NOTHING to do with the base, just as IranContra had nothing to do with the base, just as BCCI had nothing to do with the base.

It's about good governance. HONEST government, which has been the HALLMARK Of Kerry's career for over 35 years.

Only a moron with no idea about Kerry's actual record of service would believe the GOP spin that it's all for show.

All Kerry has "gained" politically out of his efforts over the last 3 decades, especially over BCCI, is a great big fat focking target on his back and the back of his family.

[imenja]

40. you have missed my point entirely

try rereading my first post in this thread

[blm]

42. I replied to claim he's playing to the base, because it's simply untrue.

Unless you forgot to mention in your post that it will be PORTRAYED that way by the media and the Republicans.

[imenja]

44. my point was about political strategy

If you like Kerry, I assume you'd like to see him elected at some point. Democrats don't know how to play the media. That was my point.

If you don't think a post on his website is not directed at his base, you're naive. Who else do you think reads the site? He is a politician. The idea that what he does is not politically motivated is absurd. It must be politically motivated, I only wish he had been better at it when he was running for president. Perhaps you see some virtue in losing elections. I don't. I want a Democrat in the White House.

P.S. To consider politics doesn't mean a person doesn't believe in what he says.

[blm]

49. I understood that aspect, but, the quote was also in a Reuters article

on Rove, so I don't see it as something targeted to supporters only.

[LittleClarkie]

41. If he was playing to the base

wouldn't you think that he'd make sure more of the base knew about it, aside from the 3 million or so on his mailing list?

I join BLM in calling bullshit.

Fuck it. Just close your eyes and pretend it's Dean or Clark or somebody. Then it will look like somebody doing something.

[imenja]

45. for heaven's sake

are you all dedicated to permament Republican rule? How do you think politicians get elected?

So who was the email directed at if not Kerry supporters? Isnt' that who he sent it to?


For some reason you think it's wrong for politicans to act like politicians. How else do you think they get elected?

[LittleClarkie]

46. yeah, Kerry supporters

those still on his mailing list.

Are we the base? Gee, that would be nice. But considering the reaction we get, maybe not.

[imenja]

47. and? does that mean you are oblivious to political strategy?

You want to make sure your guy is never elected? If you object to someone being smart about playing to the media, you must not want him in office. I for one am tired of Republican rule. I'd like to see the Democrats regain power.

There is a strange thing happening here: you folks idealize a candidate to the point where you resent any implication that he might be acting like a politician--which after all is his job--and take offense at my suggestions as to how he might do it better. If you find politics so repulsive, why even care about Kerry or any other politician? If you want a hero who doesn't take politics into account, find someone with a different kind of job.

[LittleClarkie]

53. No, just disputing that he's playing to the base in this instance

or if he is, he must be doing it badly.

[Laurab]

75. I don't idealize any candidate

although I am a Kerry supporter, I have no clue who I will vote for in '08, nor am I even thinking about it at this time. However, I think you are mistaken in some of your assumptions. Whoever is able to ask this question SHOULD ask it, and since Kerry's voice is heard when he talks, it is most appropriate for him to ask it. It's about time SOMEONE did. I think it can only help him - the GOP can try to smear him all they want, but it will only bury them deeper I think. Lies beget lies, and their lies are falling all over each other right now.

Kerry is doing what he always has done, which has a lot to do with why I like him. This isn't only about politics, it's about the most corrupt administration in our history, and I don't think they're going to be able to lie themselves out of this one. I just don't see how they can smear something like this, and have it work. Their smear tactics have become somewhat less effective now that they are on the defensive.

Some people dislike a politician so much that they will find fault with whatever that person does.

[blm]

48. The quote wan't just in a supporters' email, but also in Reuter's article.

This isn't JUST a base thing. He's putting it out there.

I WISH Kerry was more political than he is. But, instead he's more concerned with good governance whether it suits my lefty druthers or not. I also wish he'd physically grab Bush and Rove by the neck and throttle them for days.

But, then, that's also why I could never get elected.

;))))))))))))))

[robertpaulsen]

38. "about his own involvement"

Sounds like Kerry's asking, "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"

Worse than Watergate? God, I hope so!

[blm]

54. Some of us think it's all connected to BFEE's own WMD proliferation

business over the last 30+ years. I'll bet BushInc was REALLY worried about some of Plame's ongoing quest for proliferation information.

No surprise to me that Wilson hooked up with Kerry, the investigator on BCCI.

[bejammin075]

43. Either Rove lied to Bush, or Bush is a liar!!!

great point! either way, we win! take that, bitches!

[linazelle]

50. .

[electron_blue]

51. finally, someone has the guts to bring it up

wtg Kerry!

[linazelle]

52. "I love the smell of impeachment in the morning" Sweet.nt

[Dr Fate]

56. Smart move- Bush is Rove's EMPLOYER.

Bush is "the BOSS" the commander- he ORDERS Rove to do these things.

[blm]

58. Bush was political strategist (dirty trickster) with Atwater and Rove for

30 years. The media rarely mentions this aspect of Bush, but it was his most dominant role. I think it's also why so many Republicans fear Bush and Rove. He's probably blackmailed and compromised almost all of them.

There is no way that Bush and Rove didn't hatch this plan together. It's EXACTLY how Bush operates. He has his mother's vengeful streak...squared.

[fedupinBushcountry]

62. "The Architect"

"Bush's Brain" You know and I know he knew, and the more this is spoken about the better. John Kerry is just doing what he promised, he's got our backs.

[A Brand New World]

57. That's what kills me when these reporters ask Bush if he still has

confidence in Rove. Of course he does! Rove did exactly what Bush and Cheney told him too. Of course he has confidence in him. I sincerely don't think Bush thought up the plot because I don't think he has enough brain cells to blink and scratch his butt at the same time. Rove or Cheney are more likely the originators, but I do think Bush gave final approval to the scheme.

[spinbaby]

59. Time to recycle an old Reagan joke...

What did Bush know?
And when did someone explain it to him?

[Jackpine Radical]

61. Kerry was burned once, on Iran-Contra/BCCI when he laid out

all his findings from the Senate investigation & the whole thing went nowhere for lack of competernt prosecution.

I think he may be very, very careful these days to make sure he's got everything laid out before he moves. That may be why he did nothing about the election theft--he may have felt that he just didn't have everything in the ironclad terms he knew he would need to take them all down. Anybody think he's not capable of biding his time & awaiting the right opportunity?

[LittleClarkie]

64. Indeed he wanted to BE the prosecutor

but they said he was too young and too politically radioactive.

[blm]

73. Poppy Bush complained Kerry was too aggressive in his pursuit. Dem leaders

caved and kept Kerry off the senate committee. But, then, that freed him up to pursue BCCI which truly was the Holy Grail for the REAL BFEE goals.

[bleever]

65. I'm so happy that Kerry is the first one to step up and say this.

It seems fitting.

And I'm probably projecting here, but maybe he knows he was robbed, and looks at * and has no trouble seeing all the signs of a crook who is dissembling, and is now ripe for disassembling.

:)

[Dr Fate]

66. Jeeze- I hope like hell Kerry is looking at it that way...

If I were him I would be livid at Bush/Rove- Hell-Im, me and I'm livid!!!

[Patsy Stone]

71. Hey!

What are they hiding? :hi:

[TayTay]

74. Does anyone know when the speech on this

is scheduledto take place? The letter mentions 'this week.' I would like to see this. The more Kerry (AND OTHERS, but Kerry and his letter is the subject of this thread) talks about Rove the more I suspect a speech that begins to bring all the threads of the Iraq debacle together. No WMDs, Rove's War on Wilson, DSM, etc.

Anyone sense that this is getting closer and closer?

[jackstraw45]

76. Roberts probably delaying it...

for good reason. Might as well let things die down for a week or so. We've waited over 2 years for this story to come out - we can wait a few more weeks I guess.

[TayTay]

82. I wonder, the Democratic Policy Comm is

holding a hearing on Friday. He should show and take on whatever witnesses they have.

The other Dem Policy Commhearing shave been good, but only one or two Senators at a time have been in attendance. It would be nice to have more sitting there. And this would seem to be the place for a nice speech about Rove and DSM and no WMDs and tying it all together.

(Just a guess, obviously.)

[Parche]

77. Bush and lawyer

Now we know why he hired a criminal lawyer

[jackstraw45]

81. DAMN good point.

Media fails to pick up on it.

[wishlist]

78. One of networks mentioned what if Bush tries to fire Fitzgerald

I have been savoring the bits and pieces on different networks that draw parallels with Bush's dilemma to Nixon and Watergate. I believe it was MSNBC yesterday where one of the newscasters mentioned the possibility that Bush could try to fire Fitzgerald and talked about what happened when Nixon tried to fire the special prosecutor during the Watergate investigation.

[Disturbed]

79. Bush is a mushroom.

My suspicion is that he was fed shit and kept in the dark about this political assasination of J. Wilson, plus the destruction of Wlson's wife's operation. After the shit hit the fan Rove told him about it and assured him not to worry because it would blow over.

[ignatius 2]

80. Has the president ever, even once, been straight with the

American people? How so many have been duped into thinking he is a moral man of character is beyond me.

Good for Kerry for having the guts to say this..I suspect he knows much of what is coming down behind the scenes, after all he was a first crack investigative attorney before his Senate days.