Journalist fired from teaching job for calling student "incredibly hot"

[proud2BlibKansan]

Tue Jul 19, 2:06 PM ET

BOSTON - A former Boston Herald columnist was fired from a part-time job teaching journalism at Boston University after posting a note on an Internet site that a female student was "incredibly hot."

Michael Gee, a 17-year veteran of the Herald, was hired by Boston University to teach an introductory journalism course. He had been among dozens of staffers who left the newspaper this spring amid job cuts.

On July 5, Gee wrote on the sportsjournalists.com Web site about his first day teaching and mentioned the student, according to a Web log run by sports media critic David Scott on http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com.

"Of my six students, one (the smartest, wouldn't you know it?) is incredibly hot. ... It was all I could do to remember the other five students."

Gee was fired July 13, according to Bob Zelnick, chairman of BU's journalism department. Zelnick said the posting violated the trust essential to the student-teacher relationship.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050719/ap_on_re_us/ex_columnist_fired_1

[dsc]

1. This is an interesting case

First, who wouldn't want to be described as this young lady was. Both hot and the smartest in the class. But, if they let a prof post that about a student in such a way that it is easy to find out who, then what about less universally positive posts. Ie she was hot but not the brightest student in the class. Tough case. Man should have kept his thoughts to himself or at least to his close friends.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. It was a dumb thing to do

and way too sexist, IMO.

[Lex]

5. I agree. He shouldn't have commented if she was ugly either.

It's inappropriate and unprofessional.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. He shouldn't be making any comments whatsoever

about his students on a PUBLIC website. Pretty stupid, if you ask me.

[DistressedAmerican]

69. Thank You. I Am A Professor And Would Get Fired For Posting Word One

about my students. Much less comments on their looks.

Not acceptable. Got exactly what he deserved.

[bennywhale]

I agree on both counts but don't think it warrants the sack. he was

posting in his spare time casually i imagine andf it sounds in good humour.

[blondeatlast]

8. On a public forum? It's damn poor judgment, if nothing else.

Some thoughts need to remain in the brain.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. It doesn't matter that it was in his spare time

It's most likely a privacy violation.

[Maddy McCall]

73. Wrong. Read up on federal privacy laws as they apply to college students.

What he did was not only unethical. It was also close to, if now outright, illegal.

[Iris]

78. Posting on public forums, even in your spare time, can get you fired from

almost any job.

[Eloriel]

88. In his spare time? Oh THAT makes it all okay.

Sheesh.

He really doesn't have the right to NOTICE, let alone COMMENT, even in his spare time -- or his sleep, AFAIC.

[dsc]

6. I am not sure I would call that sexist

given that he praised both brain and body. It was dumb though.

[longship]

15. Okay, then...

Let's try "student as sex object". Shouldn't he be fired for that?

[dsc]

17. He would be viewing her equally as a sex object

regardless of whether or not he posted his opinion of her on a website. In short, I don't think a requirement for teaching college ought to be not to ever find a student attractive. I think not acting on it should be a requirement. It should also be noted that he also called her the brightest student in the class so I don't think that qualifies as viewing her as only a sex object.

[blondeatlast]

I agree that finding her attractive isn't the problem. The problem is the

posting it on a public forum.

It's incredibly stupid on so many levels.

[noiretextatique]

25. read it again

the smart part is not the focus...the hot part is.
i wonder if the student was flattered by the comment? my guess: NOT.

[dsc]

35. I have no idea if she was or wasn't flattered

though I know many young ladies of her age who would be. I also know ones who wouldn't be. I don't think her reaction is all that relevent given the public nature of the comment. The problem here is that he said it in public and in a way that she and he could be fairly easily indentified.

[noiretextatique]

37. i bet she thinks it's relevant

and she might not have been flattered...at all. i know young ladies of her age who would not be flattered by a professor commenting on their appearance in public, my 18 year old niece, for example.

[dsc]

38. So if she is flattered he gets to keep his job?

That is, after all, what relevent means here. Somehow I find it more than a little difficult to believe you think that.

[noiretextatique]

39. um, no: it's not the issue as to why he was fired

and of course: you have NO IDEA whether she was flattered or not. it's quite possible that she wasn't, because it wasn't exactly a flattering comment. perhaps he should have stuck with commenting on her smarts...i doubt anyone would find that unflattering. he would still have his job too.

[dsc]

42. I believe I have said, repeated, and now I am iterating that

I have no idea if she was flattered. But I was defining the word relevent as I used it. I stand behind my statement, and evidently you agree with it given what you just posted, that it is irrelevent if she is flattered or not.

[patcox2]

58. Thats not actually true.

from what can be gleaned from the university's sparse statement, he was fired for breaching the trust necessary between teacher and student. I think the point is he should not have posted anything about one of his students on a public message board. Smart, dumb, hot, ugly, it would all be the same, its not right for a teacher to discuss the student, breach of privacy.

Of course its also prudish and impossible, teachers will, always and forever, gather in the lounge or when socializing and discuss their students, including their looks and their intellect.

[marions ghost]

63. yes

Unfortunately I have to agree that it's appropriate to fire him. Usually I don't favor such harsh measures. Posting anything on a public message board about a student is a serious breach of trust and privacy. Doesn't matter what it is about. A university can't allow this.

[noiretextatique]

64. yeah, his mistake was posting it online

i was challenging the notion that the comment wasn't totally inappropriate because he mentioned she was smart. and the notion that women are always flattered by comments about their appearance, which of course, is not true.

[Karenina]

66. Na Du, KX!!!!

I'm delighted this guy was canned. WHAT A FUCKING DIMWIT! And as for many of the posts on this thread, they remind me of that "Well, that's not really..." ;-) It would be my wish that ANYONE with so little common sense be summarily REMOVED from his position.

:hi::loveya::hi:

[noiretextatique]

67. indeed, i don't feel sorry for him

there were attempts to obfuscating the issue, e.g., "can't 40yo men have sex drives?" and "she might have been flattered," however, the bottom line in this case is the violation of policy thing, not that "PC" thing. common sense...what a concept!!!!!
:loveya: :hi:

[Karenina]

82. Had I been his "target"

I can only imagine being mortified! Everyone in the class watching for his "woodie..." EKEL!

[Iris]

84. Not only that but it's a classic example of creating a hostile environment

where any female student he has that is "not so hot" may be as uncomfortable as the hot chick might be.

It also shows the male students in his class that it's ok to publicly make comments about the apperance of female co-workers.

[noiretextatique]

86. um, yeah...that's not exactly "flattering"

during my experience of having UNWANTED attention from a professor, i was concerned about how my grade might be affected. not to mention being absolutely mortified by her fawning over me in class :puke:

[Kipepeo]

129. It doesn't matter if she was flattered or not

what is sexist and unethical is his putting her in a situation where she even would have to decide whether she was flattered or not. She shouldn't have to decide anything about what her *journalism TEACHER* thinks about her body (not only thinks about her body but posts on a public message board).

No student should have to read on a public message board that her professor finds her "incredibly hot" OR disgusting ugly - either one fucks up everything about the teacher student relationship.

Not to mention what it did to her relationship w/ the other students in the class and to the teacher's relationship with the other students in the class.

[JuniperLea]

55. right

the hot part makes it personal. there should be nothing personal about that relationship. of course men are going to find women attractive, but the ethical thing is to not say so when you hold certain positions. the fact that we are discussing this at all is a sign it was too public.

[Iris]

81. He did act on it by pointing out in a very public way that he found her

attractive.

[Iris]

79. It was sexist.

He would not have felt compeled to mention the physical attributes of the smartest male student in his class.

[Iris]

80. dupe

[blondeatlast]

7. Of course he may have those thoughts, but it is unprofessional

to express them. He damn well better keep them entirely to himself.

It's no different than my e-mail at work (I'm a civic employee) being privvy to you--and it IS, and I know that it is.

He knew it was public. He should keep his mouth shut.

[Iris]

75. I wouldn't have.

Not at that age, especially. When I was 18-24, comments like that, while possibly meant to be flattering, were embarrassing and often demeaning.

[okieinpain]

106. really, because it really amazing that she happens to also be the

smartest. guess she had big brain(s)

[JuniperLea]

2. i see nothing wrong with that

in this age of assorted pervs in high places, there is no room for that kind of talk...

although i was tempted to ask if he named names or if he himself was annonymous... my mind is "rove'ing" too much.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. It is incredibly unprofessional

and way too sexist for me.

The idiot deserved to be fired.

[ComerPerro]

61. I don't consider it sexist, really. But definately unprofessional

And, it was just a really stupid thing to do.

[bennywhale]

9. Can a man not appreciate and comment on the attractiveness

of a member of the opposite sex anymore. he didn't say anything innaproprioate to her. he did a dumb thing yes, but your instant linking with the issue of "pervs" is a sad view of today's society whereby you see all men as such.

[noiretextatique]

10. a teacher publically commenting on a student?

i can see how that might be frowned upon. if he had made those comments to someone in person vs. on a blog, no one would have been the wiser.

[bennywhale]

24. I just realised it was a PUBLIC site he was posting on

thought it was private in some way. Retract some of what i said.

But still stand by the fact that its wrong and sad that a man like this should be lumped together under suspicion with the "pervs" mentioned in the post.

That is a deliberate and i think slightly sinister smear.

[noiretextatique]

27. i think only one poster suggested that

personally...i just think he was stupid.

[blondeatlast]

29. Since the issue for me is mostly the public aspect, no worries.

I still argue that it was a bad idea, but the public/private aspect is my main concern.

[blondeatlast]

13. Not in a professional capacity. Oh, sorry--I know that men are being

viciously oppressed by this. :sarcasm:

For pity's sake, I was filling up at the gas station today, in my work clothes, and a man thought he should let me know he thought I was attractive in a completely inappropriate way. My kid was in the car.

Common sense too oppressive for you? Give me a break.

[bennywhale]

20. How is that the same? If someone behaved that way to my wife in front

of my kid i'd be having a serious problem with him.

But this man was calling an anonymous person attractive to someone else in a private context.

As i say i think its dumb and its sexist i just don't think this man should be equated with the "pervs" that are being mentioned. The implication is a giant leap and one which should not be made.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. But how anonymous was she?

If the readers knew who he was and contacted the school, then her identity was not all that anonymous.

[bennywhale]

30. And contacted the school? Yeah i can hear the

conversation. "Do you have the names of the hot girls studying journalism please."

Anyway i think we are getting off point, because as i say it was dumb, insensitve, sexist etc.

I just don't think warrants a witch hunt for "the perv".

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. It's in the article

That's how the school found out - someone told on him. So he couldn't have been too anonymous.

[blondeatlast]

26. It was an internet site. That's a public forum, just as much as DU is.

I know that what I post here has no privacy protections.

If he didn't know he had no privacy protectionm, he's dumb as a box of rocks, which is why I say it's wrong on many levels.

And--I shouldn't need to have my husband nearby to "protect" me from inappropriate comments. They shouldn't be made, whether my kid is around or not.

At a cocktail lounge, my opinion would markedly differ.

[JuniperLea]

49. to breech a professional standard

can easily be construed as perverted. this is a man we trust with our kids. all men have such thoughts, but to voice them in writing on the internet is unacceptable. there is nothing private about the internet anymore.

[bennywhale]

59. "To breach a professional statndard can easily be construed as perverted"

What?

Only in this context or in any context?

Would it be perverted if it were a woman breaching professional conduct?

And what on earth has this got to do with children?

You are (as someone else i've been arguing with on this thread) infering certain things about this, dumb but quite normal, man which is quite sinister.

Is this your viwe of men in general? men who breach professional conducts? or men who find females attractive?

[JuniperLea]

65. men or women

who breech professional conduct. in any sexual context. if your professionalism cannot override your sexuality, then it can be construed as perverted. men, women, teachers, doctors, students of any age.

[alarcojon]

127. Completely agree

As mentioned elsewhere, men (and women) do notice attractive people. But you MUST keep that a private matter, and cannot let it influence your treatment of that student or other students. It is a professional requirement for the job, and if you can't live up to it, you are in the wrong line of work.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

139. Yes, a woman academic who stated on a public forum that

a specific male student was "hot" would get the same treatment--and a lot of ridicule besides.

[Eloriel]

97. Why do it "in front of" anyone --

why not just keep such thoughts to yourself? They are INAPPROPRIATE because they are SEXIST, and they therefore don't deserve to be aired in public. Sexism is WRONG.

Even if the young woman were completely anonymous, it's STILL inappropriate because it's still sexist and objectifying. IOW: Keep your fucking lust to yourself and quit trying to male bond over it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. It's not about a man commenting on a woman's appearance

It's about a TEACHER and a STUDENT. Big difference.

[JuniperLea]

48. oh please!

no way! i'm just saying that there are a lot of freaks in society and IF you don't want to be perceived as such yourself, you really need to mind your p's and q's.

get a grip.

[bennywhale]

51. Is thhe problem for you the public site or the fact that

men retain their capacity to view females as attractive.

Is it the wrinkles that gets ya?

Do you believe they are all dirty old men?

And there aren't that many freaks actually, it depends how you view the world.

[JuniperLea]

54. public and general ethics

he is in a position of authority and it is completely unethical to say things like that about his students. i'd feel the same way if it were a doctor, priest or pastor.

[Maddy McCall]

76. Nope. Not in the academic setting where the prof is in a position of...

power over the student.

You need to read up on federal privacy laws, as they apply to college students.

[Eloriel]

94. It's objectifying -- making her into an object of his, um, lust, actually

Finding the opposite sex attractive is normal, but it doesn't have to be group sport, ya know? And men MAKE it group sport, a bonding experience between themselves. That's what he was doing here, taking his considerable Male Privelege to comment on her very, very SEXY looks. And might I also point out that "attractive" is not necessarily exactly equivalent to "sexy," and "hot" is definitely sexy. He's made her into a sex object; his comment is sexist.

And wrong. And unprofessional. There's also no doubt a considerable age difference, and the power differential of him being the professor and she's the student. The power imbalance adds to the Male Privelege he's tapping into AND the sexism inherent in the comment.

[Karenina]

98. Thank you, Eloriel.

.

[noiretextatique]

102. exactly...he said he could barely remember the other students

because of his focus on her. that's a clue...for all who care to get it.

[Maddy McCall]

107. See post 103. He discussed his desire to have sex with her.

[despairing optimist]

11. Oh, why couldn't it have been David Brooks?

Better luck next time, I hope.

[Liberaler]

12. Soooo

he just said publicly what 100% of all men would have said to themselves if they had been in his position. His only problem is that he published it. other than that, it's an overreaction that is caused ny the damn "moral" sweeping this country. This "moral" is that it's OK to show mutilated corpses in media, while a naked body gives you close to a death penalty!

SICK!

[blondeatlast]

16. The issue is EXACTLY the public forum.

Common sense goes a long way.

[noiretextatique]

22. not morality: common sense

he is paid to be a teacher, not to comment on who is or is not hot. if he hadn't done it publically, he would still have a job.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Agreed

Great post

[noiretextatique]

32. btw

:hi: i haven't forgotten about you, but my friends are hard to get in touch with sometimes (recluses). i remember you in the thread about my dad...thanks for responding...i was pretty distraught at the time. he's doing better, but still a long haul ahead.
blessings!

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Well thanks for remembering

I hope your dad continues to improve.

:hug:

[blondeatlast]

31. Exactly. nt

[Botany]

14. It was stupid!

He might have been right she was smart and hot .... good things but
he was an idiot for posting it ..... he should do what Profs for years have
done ..... wait till the end of the quarter and make her a TA .....

Prof's kid her ..... I remember growing up seeing many 35 + year old
professors with 20 year old wives ......

[mike_c]

36. I agree this was unprofessional...

...but I'm a full-time prof and I've thought about this sort of thing a lot. I'd chew my arm off before I commented publically about one of my female students-- even in a far blander way than "smart and hot." But this guy was NOT a "professional" in an academic setting, or at least not one with much experience. Personally I think firing him was a bit over the top-- his Dean should have had him in for a bit of carpet cleaning with the understanding that a second episode would lead to a more official reprimand, IMO.

I also agree with the several comments made here about how repressed a society we're generating when we take it as axiomatic that this sort of unprofessional behavior-- which is really just childishness-- is bordering on criminal disrespect. That's the Taliban mindset, and it manifests itself first in an inability to respond appropriately-- every transgression is A MAJOR BIG DEAL that has to be stamped out for the good of all. We are social animals with a wide range of responses to our social cues-- if we need to learn, as individuals, to temper our responses we should also learn to respond more wisely to transgressors. I don't see that any good purpose was served by firing this guy-- he probably learned a lesson, but now it's one that he'll not have much opportunity to put to good use.

[XemaSab]

77. Hey, didn't I see you on here yesterday

complaining about your hotness rating from your students?

;-)

[Eloriel]

120. Well, professor,

I'm saddened -- but not surprised -- that you don't find patently sexist remarks made publicly by teachers about their students something that should get one in trouble.

But this guy was NOT a "professional" in an academic setting, or at least not one with much experience.

No, but aren't there some GUIDELINES that most schools give out to their staff, even parttime staff?

But the much bigger issue, for me, is two-fold -- the violation of privacy and trust, and more than that the sexism.

I also agree with the several comments made here about how repressed a society we're generating when we take it as axiomatic that this sort of unprofessional behavior-- which is really just childishness-- is bordering on criminal disrespect. That's the Taliban mindset...

Yeah, baby. Let the sexism roll. Sexism ain't YOUR problem, is it? You've NEVER been harmed by it. HOW DARE WOMEN, and institutions who stick up for them, try to take away YOUR RIGHT to oogle their bodies and make public comment? How utterly "repressed" of us as a society.

Uh, no, professor. How ENLIGHTENED. IT's NOT okay to objectify women. It's NOT okay to violate a student's privacy and trust. It's NOT okay for horny, sexist old men to oogle young women and drool over them in public and make public sport of their bodies.

I sure as hell hope YOUR students are all male.

[mike_c]

134. Eloriel, this response is over the top....

In the first place, you don't know me very well if you think that I "objectify women." Nothing in my post suggested that I do, or that I would excuse such behavior. Also, nothing warranted personalizing the matter.

You "sure as hell hope" my students are all male? In fact, most of my students (my grad students over the years) have been FEMALE, and I have maintained an entirely professional-- and continuing, in many cases-- relationship with them. No female student has ever complained about my behavior. Quite the contrary-- my grad TAs have told me I have a reputation for fairness and gender neutrality. That's not an accident-- I teach in a field in which women have been traditionally under-represented and I've made a point of trying to rectify that by fostering the development of female professionals.

But here I am trying to justify myself to you. You have consistently misinterpreted many of my posts, twisting them into outright contradictions of my actual statements, or reading completely unjustified meaning into my remarks, as you've done here. The sarcastic tone of your comments this time smacks of personal attack.

Why don't you PM XemaSab and ask her for her opinion? She's one of my former students.

[XemaSab]

135. Sexist remarks aren't ok

and should be challenged, but in the grand scheme of things, this isn't the worst crime ever perpetrated against women.

The guy in the OP is a moran, and he made a stupid remark.

I've had professors make FAR worse comments to me that seemed much less like a stupid, isolated comment and more like a pattern of inappropriate remarks, and I was completely horrified.

I've also been part of a sexual harassment suit (against a landlord)that went WAY beyond what this guy did.

Making a huge deal out of an isolated remark only serves to weaken the feminist, anti-sexual-harassment cause in the eyes of most average males.

I'd like to see a future where men realize what women do and don't find appropriate and welcome, but I realize that sexual attraction is a biochemical impulse that humans don't have control over, so I further realize that this utopian future more a matter of men controlling what they say out loud, as opposed to what they think.

DU is a big tent, and it's OK to share feelings, but questioning the professional integrity of people who disagree can be hurtful.

[MetaTrope]

40. Looking on the bright side...

maybe he can get a pity fuck from her now.

[noiretextatique]

43. or maybe

she'll just tell him to go fuck himself :shrug:

[progressivebydesign]

41. And the problem with this is???

It's not like he was teaching children, I give you that, but frankly the guy can't seem to keep his dick in his pants and it obviously affects his ability to teach objectively. Goody.. more horny old men out there. (and loved the comment that she 'had the be the smartest', like it's some fucking freak of nature that we could be hot and smart, what a caveman!).

[noiretextatique]

44. exactly the point i was trying to make to someone

who claimed this might be perceived as a flattering comment.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

47. did you ever consider: the student may not want that kind of attention?

from a faculty member, especially when the comment was posted on a public forum? it is not hard to imagine that male student might not want that attention from a female professor either.

in grad school, i had a professor who used to call me at home and want to talk about personal things, and it was awkward, to say the least. i wanted to maintain a good relationship with this person, but i also thought she was disrespecting my boundaries because i wasn't the least bit interested in her.
i was taking a class with her, so i couldn't just tell her to fuck off, so i avoided her as much as possible.
it really put me in an awkward position, and of course: i never wanted THAT kind of attention. and it was THAT kind of attention, even though she was always very careful not to say anything too obvious.

[bennywhale]

50. Like i said i also thought it was dumb

but i don't think the guy should be branded a perv for commenting on the attractiveness of a girl.

there is a lot more serious shit going on in the world without conducting witch hunts against old men who have the audacity not to lose their sex drive or disposition to find females attractive once they pass 40

shame on them.

[noiretextatique]

52. only one person said he was a perv

the female student was probably NOT INTERESTED be in his sex drive, so the professor should have keep his sex drive to himself, or other interested parties.

even 40yo male professors need to act appropriately, in spite of their sex drives.

[bennywhale]

60. The implication on the thread is that he is somehow sinister rather than

just stupid.

[noiretextatique]

62. no...that's what YOU keep saying

i think most people said he was just stupid.

[dsc]

46. He did keep his dick in his pants

He deserves the trouble he brought upon himself for saying, on a public forum, what he did. But he most certainly kept his dick in his pants.

[patcox2]

56. No horny men, no people with sex drives, eunochs only.

Prudes.

[Iris]

85. That's not the problem. The problem is as an instructor he is in a

position of authority and that's when a certain decorum is expected.

[Eloriel]

121. Male Privilege rears its ugly head to come up with a strawman!!

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Okay, I'll play.

It's okay to be a sexual being; it's NOT okay to reduce a young woman -- even while commenting on her intelligence -- to a sexual object. I don't think it's okay at ALL, but it's certainly not okay in public.

It's NOT okay to make women sexual sport. It's NOT okay to try to justify the objections as being against sex and sexuality. But you can make yourself look just as ridiculous -- and sexist -- as you want by trotting out such lame, transparent, self-serving arguments. 'Sokay with me!!

[Goldmund]

53. Maybe he should have called her fugly -- the morality police seems to...

...prefer that.

[noiretextatique]

89. he shouldn't have said anything about her

in a public online forum...period.

[Goldmund]

118. Oh, why the hell not?

We're humans, not androids.

[Iris]

142. Right. She's a human being as well and deserves to be treated

with dignity. Making her a sexual object in front of her peers and possibly in front of people (reading her professor's comments) who might be in a position to hire her dehumanizes her.

[oldcoot]

143. He may have violated university policy

Most universities and colleges have very specific rules covering sexual harassment. When Boston University hired Gee, university or department staff probably gave him a handbook listing university regulations defining what is and is not appropriate behavior with students. He should have read that handbook.

[noiretextatique]

144. he was her professor, she was his student

how IS IT POSSIBLE that you don't see his actions were inappropriate: as her PROFESSOR? not as a human, but in his role as her professor.
would you understand it if he was a jr high school teacher?

[proud2BlibKansan]

145. Because it is illegal

As Maddy McCall said in a post upthread, this is a huge privacy violation. And privacy rights are protected under federal law. So this 'professor' not only did something in poor taste, he also broke a law.

[patcox2]

57. Okay, now what do we do about students who say "Ohh, the professor is hot?

I take it that is allowed?

[Maddy McCall]

68. The prof is in a power position over the students and therefore is...

held to a strict code of ethics.

It's about the position of power.

[Misunderestimator]

71. Oops... jinx...

Though you say it better in fewer words. :hi:

[Maddy McCall]

72. I thought our posts were very complimentary.

:hi:

[Mandate My Ass]

99. Spot on

There are certain relationships, doc/patient, pastor/congregant, lawyer/client but especially teacher/student, due to the usual age difference which emphasizes the power of the teacher, that make such comments totally off limits. Period.

[Misunderestimator]

70. You aren't seriously comparing those are you?

Someone in a position of power discussing the hotness of someone he has power over (and the ability to pass or fail), as well as a professional obligation as a teacher to be subject to higher ethical standards in such a position... is not the same as someone who is impressionable and has a crush on an authority figure. Clearly.

[rinsd]

83. Allowed? They even have websites for it.

Go to http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/index.jsp

In addition to rating them average, below and above, there's a "hot" icon.

[alarcojon]

128. There are higher expectations of the prof

He/she is in a position of authority and power. The students aren't.

Go to ratemyprofessor.com and you will see student comments on professor's hotness. You can even get a red chili icon next to your name if a student finds you hot. As a (male) professor, I find that a bit odd, and would indeed find it odd working with a student I knew found me hot. Still, the actual consequences of that situation for me are probably minimal. But, for a student forced to interact with a professor who she knows finds her hot, it could be a very negative situation. The prof has the professional responsibility to keep his thoughts to himself.

If a student should come on to you, it is your immediate responsibility to not reciprocate and to remove that student from your course, without academic penalty. You have full control over the situation. A student being ogled by a prof has little control, since he can give her whatever grade he wants and might even be in a position to ruin her academic career.

[Catherine Vincent]

74. That was a dumb move.

If he would have said she was attractive or nice looking, maybe it would have been okay but "hot"? Wrong choice of words. We all know being hot means ready for sex. Ready for sex with him? Or someone else? Is he thinking about sex with her? blah blah blah

I hope he learned his lesson.

[Eloriel]

122. Sorry, there's no reason to comment on her appearance at all

None.

Editred to add: and I have my doubts about the wisdom of discussing her at ALL, which includes his other point, her intelligence. Just STFU, professor. Treat your students with respect, and don't gossip about them behind their backs.

[tjdee]

87. So some asshole tracked this guy down?

Am I reading wrong?

Was he posting under his real name, or from the school? Did someone actually give this passing comment *that much thought* that they found him and reported him?

If he was posting as 'himself', kind of like WillPitt does here, now *that* would be not only stupid but worth getting fired over.

His ridiculous remark was just that, but I'm also quite sure it's not the first or last time a male teacher felt that way about the student. Or, for that matter, anyone feeling that way about anyone. We all have eyes, and it is impossible to see how her hotness would have served her in his class. If this was an anonymous post, it should have stayed that way.

If there are no privacy protections on public forums, there need to be.

[noiretextatique]

90. he had six students in the class

what about the privacy of the student in question?

[tjdee]

91. He didn't name her, or the school, or the specific class.

That is my understanding. The article was unclear. Again, if he posting as "Mr. Gee from Boston University", then I agree with most of you.

If I say right now that the guy who cuts my grass is incredibly hot (which he isn't, LOL, he's alright...ugh, anyway)--is someone going to track my IP address, call up all the guys who cut grass in this area, so someone can tell him?

Would that be okay?

[Maddy McCall]

93. Apples and oranges.

See my post below.

[noiretextatique]

95. obviously, someone knew who he was

he was posting on a sports blog afflicated with his job as a journalist. the posts were deleted from that blog, so no one knows how much detail was given. in a class of six students, with this guy being a well-known journalist, it probably wouldn't take a genius to figure out who he was talking about. so...my question still stands to you: what about her privacy?
and unless the guy who cuts your grass is YOUR STUDENT, and unless you post about on hot he is in a public forum...who cares?
no one would care if this guy told his friend about the student either, but he didn't.

teachers and professors probably shouldn't comment on how hot or not their students are, unless they want to get fired.

[tjdee]

101. That's an assumption, though.

I guess that's the assumption that people are going with, that he was being stupid enough to have some kind of specific information in his postings--and if that's the case, I agree with you.

As to her privacy, obviously that has been violated if people could tell from this guy's post what school/class/whatever--especially because there were only six people in the class. But if this was a totally anoymous forum like DU, and he was posting as JoeSchmo who writes sports, her privacy was not violated.

As to the teachers commenting on hotness.... they shouldn't say anything because it is unprofessional and it is very creepy for someone in a position of power to comment on anything other than work. But as I said, I hardly think teachers are all pristine individuals who never notice physical appearance.

The issue for me is whether he posted identifying info or not. Obviously everyone is going with 'yes he did'--but I mean, look at what just happened at DU (obviously that poster named the location though).

[noiretextatique]

104. he gave enough information to be busted

and to his credit, he said his actions and comments were juvenile.
having been the object of a professor's unwanted interest, i can tell you that teachers are not pristine individuals :D
as to commenting on students publically, well that's another thing entirely.
the only confusion here is that all the parties involved were assumed to be adults, which many or may not be the case. i was 17 when i entered college.

if this guy had been a high school teacher or jr high school teacher, i don't think too many would have any doubts as to whether he should have been fired.

[tjdee]

117. Yes, I just read Maddy McCall's post below--

and from what I read he was rightfully fired. I don't know why, LOL, but I had a hard time believing someone would say "I teach this class at such and such a school and there are only six students in there."

And I agree the replies would have been different if this was junior/high school. I knew two or three women who slept with professors (reeeeaaaallly dumb) so in my head it's slightly different (but no less creepy on the part of the professors). I was underage when I entered college too--thankfully the only creeps that talked about my hotness were students.

[noiretextatique]

119. yuck...i would never date any of my professors

none were "hot." but i know some students who did the sex for grades thing. it was grad school prof who tried to get next to me...also yucky. i really think she just wanted to be friends, but, she used her position to do things...like call me at home. it was uncomfortable to say the least, but i was in my 30's by then, so all she did was piss me off vs. intimidate me, as she might have when i was 17.

[tishaLA]

130. Feminist Prof. Jane Gallop wrote a book

about being accused of sexual harassment by a grad student. It was called Feminist Accused of Sexual Harassment, funnily enough (the headline in the Milwaukee newspaper when the suit was filed). Jane, who is generally respected in literary studies and holds the title "Distinguished Professor of English and Comparative Literature" at her university, had played with the idea of sexual politics in the classroom for a long time before this story broke and, the story goes, a questioner once her sexual preference. She replied, "Graduate students."

I find this topic fascinating because pedagogy and sexual relationships are both about power relations to varying degrees. But it should go without saying that the gentleman was obviously stupid and incredibly unprofessional to post in the way he did.

[noiretextatique]

141. strangely enough...

in my case, prof was going thru a divorce at the time, and i thought she used it an excuse. i was in a very small program...only four students, and the other students excused her...her lack of preparation...her lack of information, but i didn't. i was the closest to being her contemporay agewise, so i thought she was playing the "weak woman" role to the hilt, and getting away with being incompetent in her role as professor because everyone (except me) felt sorry for her :nopity:
i could certainly empathize with her regarding the divorce, but i had so respect for the way she used that as an excuse not to do her job, since i was paying quite a bit of money to take her (non) class.
i spoke to the dean about her class...how i thought it was a waste of my time and my money...and that's when she started her manipulation campaign.
she envied me, i think, for many reasons, but most especially because i exude authority...power, and i am an out lesbian. i think she was curious and like some curious str8 woman, she probably thought i wanted to ravage her :eyes: in addition to wanting me to feel sorry for her, and wanting to be like me :eyes:
i don't think her actions ever rose to the level of sexual harrassment, but the undertones were there...if you know what i mean.
mostly...she just annoyed the fuck out of me :D

[Maddy McCall]

105. Read post 103

He identified himself beyond doubt. And therefore he identified his students--they knew who they were. Stupid, stupid, stupid man.

[bobbieinok]

113. it's one thing to notice, it's quite different to act on it

in 60s in grad school there was one good looking young male prof who was relatively subtly 'hitting on' some women students......1 of them, at least partly because of this, transferred to another school

a different time.....there was no way to complain.....and apparently no one would have taken the complaint seriously......at about the same time, a female administrator was constantly ridiculed b/c she tried to warn female students that it was not acceptable for male profs to 'hit on' them and they didn't have to accept such behavior.....as I said the general attitude at the school (except possibly from female undergrads) was that she was an old dried up prude who just needed some ----

[Maddy McCall]

92. There ARE privacy protections for college students.

Federal Privacy Act. Check it out. This guy would have been well-served to do so.

Before I taught my first class, our department chair lectured me and other new profs on this law. I can't even discuss an 18 year old student's performance with his or her parent--I would be totally idiotic to discuss him or her on a PUBLIC message board with total strangers.

He got what he deserved. I'll be surprised if students in that class don't sue. They have every right to.

[tjdee]

96. I'm having trouble seeing where her privacy was violated, though.

That's the issue for me.

Calling someone the "smartest" one in the class is not an identifier, and neither is "incredibly hot".

I'm just unsure how most of you are sure that he was a)posting under his real name (or one he could be easily identified by), b)mentioned the school, and c)talked about which class he was teaching. Obviously since it was a sportsjournalism site, he's a sportsjournalist teaching a class. There are surely thousands of sj classes, teachers, schools, students, etc.

If those vague issues are covered in the Federal Privacy Act, or if I'm missing where it says he was doing those things, then as I said I agree with most of you.

If you're assuming he did something as stupid as use his real name or location or whatever--and that's how they caught him--oh, LOL.

[Maddy McCall]

100. Read FEPA.

It will answer your questions.

I can't even email grades to my students. Against FEPA regulations. I hate to think what my chair would do if I, even anonymously, discussed students on a public forum and he found out.

I'd be canned...and I've been teaching for four years. This guy was teaching on class and it was his first time to teach on a collegiate level--so that makes him probationary. What a stupid move on his part...if he wanted to keep the job, he certainly should have been more cautious.

[proud2BlibKansan]

146. We are also trained to understand privacy laws

in K - 12 schools. You are dead on, this is a huge violation and this 'professor' will be lucky if he only loses his job.

[Maddy McCall]

103. HERE IS THE POST THAT GOT GEE CANNED (AND RIGHTFULLY SO)

"Today was my first day teaching course 308/722 at the Boston University Dept. of Jounralis (sic). There are six students, most of whom are probably smarter than me, but they DON'T READ THE PAPER!!! Not the Globe, Times, Herald or Wall Street Journal. I can shame them into reading, I guess, but why are they taking the course if they don't like to read. But I digress. Now here's the nub of my issue. Of my six students, one (the smartest, wouldn't you know it?) is incredibly hot. If you've ever been to Israel, she's got the sloe eyes and bitchin' bod of the true Sabra. It was all I could do to remember the other five students. I sense danger, Will Robinson."

Even more perplexing was Gee's response after at least one SJ poster gave this friendly advice: 'Congrats on the gig and the proximity to a hottie, but be careful. Not with her, but with this site. She or your bosses could Google your name and the university at any point and find this thread. ' Even that lucid warning didn't seem to have an effect on Gee's libido or his proud postings: 'Dear Folks: I suppose I should be flattered that many of you think this gorgeous woman who's half my age would consider having sex with me. Which, if I have any news instincts, she won't. My problem is losing my focus when I meet her to-die-for eyes.'"


More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072000515.html

And at: http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/shots/

[The_Casual_Observer]

108. Now that guy is really fucked up! "bitchin' bod of the true Sabra"

What kind of moron would say something like that publicly? What a low life.

[Mandate My Ass]

109. What a buffoon, a sexist buffoon, but still...

'Dear Folks: I suppose I should be flattered that many of you think this gorgeous woman who's half my age would consider having sex with me. Which, if I have any news instincts, she won't. My problem is losing my focus when I meet her to-die-for eyes.'"

Um, nobody seemed to remotely suggest that scenario, they only pointed out that it was an incredibly stupid idea for a middle-aged teacher to be salivating over a young student so publicly after having posted info that could easily lead back to him.

[noiretextatique]

110. someone did...here

someone suggested she might give him a "mercy fuck" :eyes:

[Mandate My Ass]

111. well there's a surprise

sexism? here? I find it totally impossible to believe. :eyes:

[noiretextatique]

112. a real shocker, i know

:eyes:

[noiretextatique]

114. i thought he was headed in a certain direction

from the snippet that was posted by the OP. this certainly clears up any question about what was on his mind.

[tjdee]

116. Thanks Maddy--this guy is the dumbest guy EVER.

Some DUers are reluctant to give out general information, and this guy gave out the school AND which class he was teaching.

I didn't think a teacher could be that shameless and oblivious.

I agree with y'all that he should have been fired.

Bitchin' bod.... :eyes:

[tishaLA]

131. Now THAT'S fucked up.

[VOX]

136. Utterly inappropriate and unprofessional, and publicly so.

He **earned** his pink slip, IMO.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

137. It sounds like he's ASKING to get the axe.

Could drugs be involved?
Does he realize what the internets even is?

[slackmaster]

115. This thread is worthless without pictures

:argh:

[Catherine Vincent]

123. Why would you want to see a picture of the teacher?

He's probably your typical 40 year old. :-)

[slackmaster]

126. Ot-nay the eacher-tay, atgirl25--cay

I want to see the student because I am your typical 47-year-old male.

;-)

[entanglement]

140. best post in this thread

:rofl:

[laureloak]

124. He deserves it.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

125. I bet he sees himself as an enlightened man

for being so honest about his feelings
while believing that he has no intentions of
going beyond them, of putting them into action.
In other words, he's a real guy for having the feelings,
but he's a good guy for being honest about them and,
well, implying, at least, that he will not lose control
of them and do something he shouldn't. I bet also that
he's shocked at the outcry.

[mixedview]

132. this need to go both ways though

I've seen many situations where the authority figure was pursued/objectifed by the subordinate. Sometimes relationships developed and they were subsequently condoned by management, although the couple was told to "keep it discreet" and "don't let it interfere with your work".

Now, this sends mixed messages to the rest of the group. It says "romance/sex is not ok in the workplace.. but sometimes it is".

Maybe this professor is a clueless pig. But maybe he's witnessed situations where a female student did choose to have sexual relations with the professor (which does happen more often than you'd think - I remember a few cases like this), and because of this, a fantasy becomes a possibility (no matter how small) for all professors who may have that fantasy.

Bottom line: we need much more clear, consistent rules governing sexual/romantic relationships at work and school.

[Maddy McCall]

133. I teach college. We HAVE clear rules.

Profs are not allowed to "date" students, much less have sex with them.

Talking about sex with them equates to sexual harrassment.

Talking about a student on a public message board violates FEPA.

Your mistake is taking a business example and applying it to an academic situation. Apples and oranges.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

138. Former academic here

Sexualizing students is a serious no-no.

You may get crushes on students and students may get crushes on you, but taking it past the fantasy level on either side is asking for trouble.