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Since we're digging into Clark's past: Let's look at Dean's

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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:27 AM
Original message
Since we're digging into Clark's past: Let's look at Dean's
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 11:33 AM by retyred
Dean's Corruption in the Green Mountain State
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Frank_Dean-Sorrell-Corruption.htm

William Sorrell met Howard Dean twenty-five years ago, when Sorrell's mother introduced the two during a neighborhood gathering. Grandma Sorrell was a Democratic Party loyalist, and an activist to boot. At the time, her son William was a rookie state attorney, and Howard a young doctor with political aspirations. They connected immediately. Both had hopes of climbing among Vermont's elite, where they could flaunt their power freely.

In 1983, shortly after the two met, Dean was voted into the Vermont House of Representatives, where he served for 3 consecutive years. By 1986 he became the state's Lieutenant Governor, and in 1991 took over Vermont's top job when acting Gov. Richard Snelling died unexpectedly.

It seems these two cronies had a mutual disdain for the judicial process from the start. In the same year Sorrell was appointed Attorney General, Dean was quoted in a Vermont Press Bureau interview as saying that he believed quick convictions were just, and that legal technicalities should be overlooked during the prosecution of criminal and civil cases. He even said he was willing to appoint people to high positions who interpreted the Bill of Rights the same as he -- with a knack for overlooking the Bill’s particulars.

<snip>

When asked if Dean would ever appoint an independent investigator to look into the law enforcement’s misconduct regarding Sorrell and the Woodward shooting, Sue Allen, Dean’s ex-spokesperson had this to say for Dean. “The Governor has been reluctant to do that (appoint special investigators) in the past, and has a great deal of faith in the Attorney General. He read the report and was comfortable with the findings.”

*************

NOTE:
The federal litigation pending against Dean's Judicial Appointees mentioned in the above article will be before the United States Second Circuit Court of Appeals for final hearing on October 20, 2003, 40 Foley Square, Ny, Ny. Also in front of the courthouse will be a peaceful protest demanding the court hold Dean's legacy, his judicial appointees, accountable. Contact s_huminski@hotmail.com for details.

Noteworthy in the above article is Dean's willingness to review his crony Sorrell's report on the Woodward shooting with a vast conflict of interest existing between Dean and Sorrell. Dean had no intention of undermining his crony's "investigation" and decision regarding the Woodward murder. This gross conflict of interest would be a crime in many states. Not in Dean's Vermont. After speaking with Justice for Woody people, the ethical and moral depravity of Dean and Sorrell becomes wholly evident and in this instance resulted in a tragic denial of justice and closure.

*********************

"Cronies V. Qualifications", Howard Dean's Dilemma"
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/9/prweb80286.htm

In 1992, now Governor Dean showed his appreciation to William Sorrell and his family by appointing Sorrell as Secretary of Administration. In 1997 it became time again for Governor Dean to thank William Sorrell and the Sorrell family by attempting to appoint Sorrell as the Chief Justice of the Vermont Supreme Court. Unfortunately, Sorrell had absolutely no judicial experience. Dean’s zeal to appoint his long-time friend to the highest judicial office in the state hit a roadblock. Noting zero experience, the judicial nominating board refused to place Dean’s friend on the short list for the top judicial spot. Dean became furious. Dean rejected the first list from the judicial nominating board that failed to include Sorrell. Again citing a lack of Sorrell’s qualifications, the board forwarded to Dean a second list that did not include Sorrell. Press reports noted this "tiff" between Dean and the board.

An angry Dean admitted defeat on the Sorrell Chief Justice appointment, but, he had a plan! To take care of his friend and appease the judicial nominating board at the same time. He would appoint the current Attorney General to the Chief Justice spot creating a vacancy for Vermont Attorney General. Perfect. Dean promptly vacated the Attorney General spot and filed it with his friend Sorrell. Dean got the job done of appointing Sorrell to a high position. All was well with Vermont cronies.

Now this tale is continuing while Dean run’s for president and his unqualified cronies wait for their payback. Its no secret that Sorrell would be number one in line for United States Attorney General under Dean. Its also no secret that Vermont Attorney General William Sorrell has engaged in criminal federal civil rights violations. Also in his tenure as Attorney General, Sorrell has used the cover-up of: obstruction of justice, extortion, acceptance of bribes by lower Vermont Prosecutors and illegal alcohol crimes to support his allies and friends. The Department of Justice knows about the Vermont corruption, but, why would that agency lodge criminal charges against Sorrell or other Vermont officials prior to the primaries?

<snip>

After living in Vermont for a decade under the Dean regime, I’ve seen how he works and whom he appoints. The oppressive anti-civil-rights environment created by Dean’s appointments was complemented by the corruption and cronyism that epitomizes Dean’s Vermont. With Dean surging in the polls, the ex-Governor is correct, it’s time to look at his record in Vermont. We must also look at the records of those in his Vermont inner circle and of his appointees.

***********************

"Dean’s Police State of Vermont"
http://bureaucrash.com/blogs/dispatches/000512.shtml

In a 1997 Vt News Bureau interview, Dean admitted his desire to appoint judges willing to subvert the bill of rights. Now the fallout from Dean's appointments are before the US 2nd Circuit at Foley Square, NYC in two outrageous cases. Docket #s 03-7036, 02-6150, 02-6199, 02-6201 One case is being prosecuted by Washington, DC first amendment attorney Robert Corn-Revere against two of Dean's judges for their banishment of a Vermont "citizen-reporter" for life from all state courthouses because he criticized one of Dean's judicial appointees. The other case features Dean's judges violating Double Jeopardy, First Amendment, State law and the State constitution. See Docket No. 99-445 (Vt. Dec. 13, 2000), aff’g, Docket No. 167-1-99 WmCr (Windham D. Ct. Aug. 30, 1999) Both cases have been briefed before the Manhattan Court awaiting oral argument. Also filing a brief in federal court against Dean's appointees is the Thomas Jefferson Center For The Protection of Freedom of Expression.

Criminal sentences doubled during Dean's tenure as a result of his appointments. I wonder how many of those serving these inflated sentences were also subjugated to constitutional deprivations at the hands of Dean's Judicial appointees leading to their convictions? How many of those serving inflated sentences were prejudiced by Deans' subversion of the public defender system mandated by the 6th amendment?

In the Meet the Press interview with Dean while discussing the death penalty he stated: http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp?cp1=1

"So I just—life without parole, which we have which I actually got passed when I was lieutenant governor— the problem with life without parole is that people get out for reasons that have nothing to do with justice. We had a case where a guy who was a rapist, a serial sex offender, was convicted, then was let out on what I would think and believe was a technicality, a new trial was ordered and the victim wouldn’t come back and go through the second trial. "

Now, according to Dean, the Bill of Rights (ie. legal technicalities) has "nothing to do with justice". In the above quote, is he saying that if someone was unconstitutionally convicted it is better that the government kill them before they can point out the constitutional problems with their conviction?

***************************

Dean's comments on civil liberties cause alarm
http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/33681.html

MONTPELIER — Gov. Howard Dean's call for a “re-evaluation” of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks was criticised Thursday by a Vermont Law School professor.
“Good God,” Vermont Law School Professor Michael Mello said when read the remarks Dean made at a Wednesday news conference. “It's terribly irresponsible for the leader of our state to be saying stuff like that right now.”
<snip>

Dean said Wednesday he believed that the attacks ( 9/11) and their aftermath would “require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street.”

Dean said he had not taken a position on these questions. Asked whether he meant that specific rights described in the Bill of Rights — the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution — would have to be trimmed, the governor said:

“I haven't gotten that far yet. I think that's unlikely, but I frankly haven't gotten that far. Again, I think that's a debate that we will have.”

***************************

Since past seems to equate present here on DU, it appears Dean would (in part) equate to a second bush term without bush actually being re-elected



CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OMG, I'm laughing so hard right now:
“I haven't gotten that far yet. I think that's unlikely, but I frankly haven't gotten that far. Again, I think that's a debate that we will have.”

That's ALL you got?!?


Hell, I'm a Dean supporter, and could have gotten more than that!!!


HAHA, nice try at diverting attention away from the fraud Clark.
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes laugh
at the messenger, it works so well for the bush team.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. Speaking of the Bush team, see post #25.
Then get back to me.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I'll still take Clark over the RW choice Dean.
Everyone on the entire RW from Rush to Rove wants Dean to win the nomination.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. not all of us live in fear of Rush and Rove and take our cues from them
like some of you apparently do.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Yeah some of us live in the real world
And we see that most of the attacks on DU against clark have been started at www.drudgereport.com

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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. I Think It Is Close to Objective Fact
That the Thugs would prefer to run against Dean than Clark.

I am NOT saying that Dean cannot win. I think he can. I just happen to think that Clark is an even bigger threat to the Thugs, both electorally and on the issues.

Electorally, he is a general with expertise in foreign policy (thus completely blunting Shrub's "strength") and he's from the South.

On the issues, he will be able to challenge most strongly the neocons' plans. Only Nixon could go to China, after all. Only a general will be able to even countenance the possibility of advancing the type of military budget CUTS, and internationalist, "just war" (as opposed to crass war) foreign policy, that Clark has. Especially in a Thug Congress.

DTH
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don't dignify this tripe with a response, Dean supporters!
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Tripe.
I think people on this board deserve a look at the "real Dean" not the manufactured candidate his groupies fawn over. I use to wonder how people could be so blinded by Bush. I no longer wonder.
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. RE:
"I use to wonder how people could be so blinded by Bush. I no longer wonder."


Now that Clark has entered and I see HIS supporters, I no longer wonder either. He's a prime example.

So we agree MOM


LOL
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Skwmom
I've never seen a single post of yours that wasn't bashing Dean. Do you have anything else to say?

Suggesting a connection between Dean supporters and Republican stupidity is loathsome at best, and indicative of the purpose of your presence here on the board.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. I guess you've missed my posts in support of other candidates.
Believe it or not there are actually some people who see Dean for the manufactured phony he is.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I try to approach
them all with an open mind.

Believe it or not, there are some people here who are willing to try that. It seems a Democratic thing to do. Constantly carping isn't particularly productive or effective.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. I won't respond, knowing that if you dabble in CRAP, you get in on you
N/T
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Enraged American Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nice try, Clarkie
You can't divert our attention.

Anyways, you are just posting "known unknowns" about Dean. What the anti-Clark movement has on Clark are "known knowns".
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. SPOT ON!!
known knowns indeed
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Maybe the anti-Clark movement should be renamed to the
Dean Debacle Movement.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. pretty transparent, dude
and not very original - a Clarkophyte doing some Dean bashing ain't exactly new around here.

The Scots judge gives you a .5 for technique and display.

:yawn:
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Since When Was He Trying to Be Subtle?
It's a blunt issue that he raises.

I personally think that this is BS, just like I believe the stuff on Clark is BS. That said, the poster's point is that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

DTH
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. somehow
given the images all over your posts, I wouldn't expect you to be unbiased or objective. :eyes:
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Think What You Want
I've already said I think these charges against Dean are BS. I've spoken up in favor of Dean MANY times. I love Dean, and he is my #2 choice. I would happily volunteer for him and donate to him, if he gets the nod.

That said, if the position is that it's legitimate to question Clark's past, it certainly should be true that it's legitimate to question Dean's past. Why is that such a hard concept for you to agree with?

DTH
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. it's not
I object to the slimy, negative way with which it was done on this thread. In fact, if retyred had said much of what you said, I wouldn't be finding fault.

Why is it so hard for Clark supporters to deal with opposing views, or questioning of their candidate? :eyes:
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I Deal With It Plenty
And I don't condone what retyred is trying to do, except for the underlying point that I mention in my posts above.

Thanks for your viewpoint.

DTH
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. LOL
Yeah, all thos facts about Clark's history and his own quotes about the War and Republicans is really BS :eyes:
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. ...
"...the poster's point is that what's good for the goose is good for the gander."

... and DISASTROUS for the Democratic Party!
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Oh, on That We Fully Agree
I have spoken out against destructive threads like these for ages. That applies to threads against Dean, Clark and all of our candidates, IMO. They're all great, and they would all be light years better than Bush.

DTH
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I agree
Too bad we can't seem to get past the ideological 'purists' and the people who become so personally invested in a given candidate that they fail to see the forest for the trees!

ABB! :)
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clar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Why the assumption that attacks
on clark are the work of dean supporters? many of them appear to be posted by supporters of other candidates.


btw, yes it's total bullshit. scott huminski is a crazy, scary guy with a grudge against the vermont judiciary.
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. My Perception Is That It's Mostly Dean or Kucinich Supporters
Who have attacked Clark.

And again, I agree with you on the BS charges here.

DTH
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Sadly...
... I will agree that some of my fellow Dean-ites seem to be SINGULARLY INCAPABLE of resisting the urge to flame anyone and everyone who is not a.) Howard Dean or b.) Howard Dean. To them, I say: GROW THE FUCK UP! :grr:
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. :-)
Thanks for your post. I think what we ALL need to do sometimes is just remember that we're all on the same side!

DTH
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. I looked over the links with an open mind, and I didn't see
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 11:44 AM by gully
much 'meat' in any of the stories.

The stories are made up of opinions without substance?

Thanks though ;)

I am glad Dean has a 'political' past to examine.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. You better check into Scott Huminski's legal record
That appears to be where you got your information. Huminski has quite a criminal record ranging from obstruction of justice to harassment of a female judge. He also has filed numerous frivolous lawsuits. He's a nutcase.
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Girlfriday Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. Somewhere in the bowels of the WH
shrub and rove are laughing! Divide and conquer.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. This post says it all.
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 11:53 AM by RUMMYisFROSTED
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/9/prweb80286.htm (linked in your post)



Scott Huminski, the author, was a Freeper that was banned from DU a couple of weeks ago.


And there you have it.



Edit- clarity
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Interesting
Which fruitcake was he?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. He was using his real name on DU.
Someone linked to him at Freeperville. Immediate tombstone. He was a Vermont nutcase with a long history of being in and out of the court system there.


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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. good looking out!
it's IMPERATIVE that we stick with GET BUSH OUT and not nitpick!

ANYBODY BUT BUSH IN 2004!!
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Yep. But it looks like KK was ahead of me in post #18.
We may be Donkey's but our memory is like an Elephants.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. Doesn't change the article about Dean on SEPTEMBER 14
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 03:27 PM by blm
and his bringing up the curtailing of civil roghts BEFORE Congress talked about the Patriot Act.

Dean would have voted for the Patriot Act AND Homeland Security. To believe otherwise, you would have to disregard his 11 year record as governor and all he has said about judicial rights in the past.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. Dean is an evil fascist that supports AshKKKroft.
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 11:52 AM by poskonig
I'm convinced. I'm supporting Clark now.
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AmeriCanadian Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yeah, I don't feel comfortable with Dean any longer either.
... Clark in 2004
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yeah, Dean has a 'law and order' reputation in Vermont.
It's one of the areas where I have major differences with him. However, his record is better than these stories would indicate. You are of course making a point about Wesley Clark by only presenting one side of the story about Dean. Point taken.

Most of the charges here are made by people with obvious biases and axes to grind. The only valid thing here is the MTP interview which has already been thouroughly discussed. None of this information is new to DU.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'd Be Thrilled If He Did!
Because that would mean all of the Clark-bashing BS would be locked as well. :-)

DTH
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azrak Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
45. Call me confused
"By 1986 he became the state's Lieutenant Governor, and in 1991 took over Vermont's top job when acting Gov. Richard Snelling died unexpectedly."

How did a democratic lieutenant governor take over for a republican governor?

Snelling was a republican I thought?!
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. I don't know about VT, but it could happen in GA
We elect our Gov and Lt Gov separately, so we currently have a Repug Gov. and a Dem Lt Gov.

Eloriel
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
46. WOW
I guess "Past" doesn't equate to "Present" here on DU, at least not for Dean.

The point of this post was to show "Past is Past" and everyone has one.

Get over it!



CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Oh, that's dissapointing then.
I thought the point was to demonstrate the foolishness of presenting one side of an argument without fairly presenting the other.

All candidates have a past which should be thoroughly scrutinized. This way we can have an explanation or a defense ready when someone attacks our eventual nominee. The idea being, nothing will hit us out of the blue. I know it's tough seeing a guy you really like and believe in being unfairly smeared, but this process is ultimately useful. IMHO, it is significantly more useful to engage in a constructive debate, instead of just willfully and ignorantly bashing. But if we are going to be defending our guy (gal :-) ) against right wing zealots, I guess it's good to get used to freeper tactics now.
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starscape Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
47. hey-la, let's kick this post
tired of the one-way Clark assualt.. ;)
nice one retyred..
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Nice? Skewed and discredited, I'd say.
But you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how afactually based it is, I suppose.

There's something else that bothers me about this thread -- there's an underlying assumption, or implication, that there is some equivalency in these two men's backgrounds. There isn't. As another poster said: if this is the worst you can drag up about Dean, and esp. that it all came from a nut job, then we're home free. IMO, Clark is a much higher risk because of what's in his background.

He was thrown into this race to stop Dean -- the candidate who hasn't been taking (and isn't therefore beholden to) corporate money, the candidate who is revitalizing the democratic process, drawing new voters into the system, AND who is leading a grassroots movement to take back the country from the monied special interests and those who seem incapable of listening to their constituents and who ALWAYS place the monied interests over constituents. For the power elite, he's a very dangerous man, and he must be stopped before this movement of the people actually revolutionizes democracy.

Clark can't and won't do anything close. He doesn't have a clue how to begin, nor does he see it in his best interests to do so. Remember, the military, where he's spent his life, is NOT a democracy.

Eloriel

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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Disagree Strongly
He was thrown into this race to stop Dean

He jumped in because he was called to serve. My take:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=377795

Obviously, some may disagree, but I am 100% convinced.

DTH
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Called to serve huh?
I have my suspicions.

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/09/franke-ruta-g-09-25.html

But now, after all his hard work, he found the nascent Clark campaign overflowing with territorial members of DraftClark2004.com, led by veteran campaign operative Jason McIntosh, a protégé of Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, whose assistant he'd been for three years.

Substantial parts of the draft movement, in fact, were led not by regular citizens inspired by Clark but by public-relations professionals and political operatives with deep ties to the Democratic Party and the Clinton administration. During the past week, it has slowly dawned on some of the less politically experienced members of the Draft Clark movement that this might not be purely coincidental.

"My operative theory is that a bunch of political insiders decided to recruit a candidate and created a fake draft movement to pressure him," says Newberry. On its Web site, DraftClark2004.com describes itself as comprising "passionate Democrats with extensive political experience" who want Clark to run. "There's nothing wrong with that," says Jacoby. "They had a political background; that simply explains why they had an interest in politics."

In late July, DraftClark2004.com stated that it had "retained" Michael Frisby, a PR professional who had covered the Clinton administration for The Wall Street Journal and has since taken on such high-profile clients as Chandra Levy's parents. Hlinko's own PR company, Extreme Campaigns, specializes in conducting nontraditional offensives not unlike the draft movement; his group, DraftWesleyClark.com, was located in the offices of former Clinton press secretary Mike McCurry's Internet campaign company, Grassroots Enterprise, Inc.

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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. One Disappointed Person's Theory
Does not equal the truth. MY take is that Newberry had expected to vault into a leadership position, and was disappointed that the professionals were given the nod. Additionally, quotes for this article were shopped around, and John Hlinko, the head of the DWC movement, has stated publicly that he was taken out of context. Others have come forward indicating the reporter was only looking for dirt, and didn't take other points-of-view into mind.

I stand by my earlier post. This was not orchestrated. It was a genuine grassroots movement, and the General was genuinely called to serve.

DTH
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
52. past
Hey guys and gals. Are we all becoming pseudo Kenneth Starrs? All the candidates have backgrounds--they are all human. Blasting each other will just get Shrub reelected. I don't want that!
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