CIA Panel is on! THREAD #2

[Glenda]

1st thread is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4165667#4166148

[RPM]

1. he called bush a flip-flopper

NICE!

[HeeBGBz]

6. Love it

Finally people speaking out and kicking ass!

[pacalo]

64. Hey, HeeBGBz...

Larry Johnson & Jim Marcinkowski have both testified in Oct. 2003 before a Democratic hearing. Only months after the leak occurred, they were so angry they were shaking & red-faced.

Here's the link for the testimony; Vince Cannistraro is first up & his testimony begins on page 7: http://talkleft.com/plamehearing1.pdf

[HeeBGBz]

147. Thanks 8!

I'll read up on it later. This is all very enlightening.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Larry Johnson is kicking ass!! N/T

[Nite Owl]

3. Do you have the link

to the first thread? I'm just joining in.

[leftchick]

Link!

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[BlueWolff]

8. Here is the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4165667&mesg_id=4166148

[Nite Owl]

35. Thanks! n/t

[HeeBGBz]

Here's the first thread link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4165667

[BlueWolff]

4. Thanks

[RPM]

5. WOW - this really puts everything into context

They are doing a great job connecting the dots for everyone and laying out the implications of the shit thate Bush has been up to.

I wish the other 99% of americans would watch this :cry:

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Johnson voted for BUSH!!!!

in 2000.

[BlueWolff]

13. He stated that from the beginning

He wants the WH to know this is not politics....
He is really brave and incredibly articulate!

[Jazzgirl]

9. Larry Johnson put it out there!

That was a kick-ass session. :headbang:

[jojo54]

10. Johnson really blasted the administration for this.

Thx Glenda for posting the new thread. Daughter and grandson here so I'm only paying 1/2 attention.

[jn2375]

11. He was definitely pissed!!

[lateo]

12. He is rocking the house.

[jojo54]

14. Jim Marcinlowski on (former CIA case officer)

said "can we regain the trust around the world?"

[BlueWolff]

17. Irreparably damaged our ability

The US Govt...OUTED a CIA agent
Breach of trust...
Isn't that the "MO" Of the Bushies!

[dogday]

15. These CIA guys are putting all of this into perspective

and they are letting the right know the lies are just that lies.....

[babylonsister]

16. "Irreparably damaged ability to collect human intelligence"

That sounds impeachable to me!

[helderheid]

18. (the Governement) Plays hide and seek with the TRUTH at the expenense

of the safety of the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

[HeeBGBz]

I hope they replay this on Cspan 1 or 2

Everybody needs to watch this

[BlueWolff]

20. Sometimes they do in the evening!

I hope so too!

[helderheid]

21. this is excellent

[sandnsea]

22. Me too

My laptop has LOUSY sound, I can't hear it and it's killing me.

[MelissaB]

23. I was wondering if they were going to. I guess we should call. :)

I also wonder if they can tell by the # of people streaming this that they need to replay it.

[HeeBGBz]

19. Finger stutter dupe

But isn't it a kick ass listen

[rox63]

24. Does anyone know

If this will be rebroadcast? I can't listen because I'm at work. :-(

[HeeBGBz]

27. Don't know but if I hear I'll post it

I hope you get to hear it.

[BlueWolff]

28. Don't know yet

If they do we will start a thread to let you know!

[wryter2000]

131. Please!

I must get this on tape!

[Occulus]

25. The sick part of Macinkowski's statements is

nearly all of it is simple common sense. Nearly all of it consists of conclusions any reasonable person could come to.

edit: this is not to bash him in any way; this is to say, the republicans are trying to get people to disregard their common sense.

[LSK]

40. thats the whole game plan of the RNC

"the republicans are trying to get people to disregard their common sense."

That sums them up in a nutshell. Almost every issue boils down to that.

[AnnInLa]

26. To those actually watching on TV, can you tell if

there are any of the MSM there? I'm concerned that the info the panel is so succintly bringing us will just die away and not be reported on.

[Occulus]

33. The camera is LOCKED on him

Nobody else is onscreen, but for a few eyes and noses behind him.

[pacalo]

83. Ann, I saw the first hearing in Oct. 2003, too, & I can tell you

that, in comparison to that hearing, there are a lot more in the audience listening to this one.

:hi:

[AnnInLa]

117. Thanks 8, here's hoping everyone in the nation finds out about this panel

[Glenda]

29. Jim M

Analogy: Like if a police officer gave up the identity of their undercover police . Cover is safety

Stealing of CIA identity is unforgiveable

[babylonsister]

30. "Credibility of case officers overseas suffered; govt cannot

now guarantee personal protection or security."

[Glenda]

31. Toothpaste can't be put back into the tube

Promises of protection will no longer carry they weight of before.

Foreign assets now know, that in USA politics trumps national security

[Skidmore]

32. Nailing the media now and all apologists for the admin

for continuing to cause harm to national security.

People I want to see questioned under oath-


*
Cheney
ROve
Libby
Tenet
Novak

[BlueWolff]

36. You forgot Condi the whench!

[Skidmore]

38. And I forgot Bolton too.

[Az_lefty]

158. I just wonder if Tenet is working with Fitzgerald on this...

[Brotherjohn]

34. WHO is holding this hearing? I have a hard time believing it's Congress.

[BlueWolff]

39. Democrats! Who else

Congressmen and Senators!

[berner59]

41. This guy is GREAT!!!

Primetime patriots and ninnies...oh wow... "Before you shine up your flag pin on your lapel...think of what is being heard around the world..." double wow...

[helderheid]

47. Dorgan and Waxman (right?)

[Chichiri]

49. Yeah, Dorgan and Waxman.

[jn2375]

37. partisan display their ignorance by saying Plame not undercover

[Occulus]

42. to that he says, "A TRUE PATRIOT WOULD SIMPLY SHUT UP"

regarding covert operatives overseas.

Hear that, republicans? SIMPLY SHUT UP!

[BlueWolff]

45. He is slapping the WH up and down

The president should have IMMEDIATELY suspended all involved at a minium suspend their security clearance and put them on leave from the WH
YES

[Occulus]

52. He REALLY spanked them just now n/t

[jn2375]

Bush sent wrong signal around the world by not firing Rove

[Skidmore]

43. If you're a true patriot stop shining up your patriotism and buttons

(or something close to this) and stop making it worse. Shut up.

[Mandate My Ass]

44. Marcinkowski

Boils down to two issues. Trust and the way media has handled that. Can you ever recover from loss of trust? around the world? Are we going to be able to recover that?

Second issue. Coverage the media has given, we cannot follow this story in great detail. Families trying to make a living. But certain things are indisputable. Everybody understand irreparable damage to gather human intel. Impaired our capability to protect. Incontrovertible truth, admin id'd covert agant. Refuse to take responsibility. Play hide and seek with truth and play semantic games at expense of the American Poepple. Nobody has that right.

Cover is part of trust. No country, no hostile group or drug ring likes to be infiltrated or spied upon. That's what CIA does. Need a ruse to fake your id. Cover depends on target of investigation. A street officer uses light cover. Operate at night and during the day have a desk job. American poeple understand that. Whatever slander they put on her is irrelevant.

Other people have different degreee of cover. FBI will not be seen drinking with colleagues after work. No matter what the degree, cover provides safety. Also used to protect collection methodologies, overseas acquaintances and other gov't officials.

Cover of an asset or agent, the case officer has to maintain cover will expose those he's working for. Cannot expect an officer to id who he is. If informant is exposed, agent is exposed. Vice versa. The effects of exposure of clandestine duty. Exposure of Val Plame by anybody in WH, the ability of officer to operate is destroyed.

CIA working overseas loses more than ability to operate. Cover is safety and if you can't guarantee it, nobody will work for you. You lose that information. Plame's cover is long gone. Credibility of all our case officers is blown. If you can't guarantee (informants') safety, they will die.

How are our officers supposed to maintain confidence when our own gov't blows cover. Taking credibility of CIA officers is simply unforgivable. Not my intention to downplay coord with special prosecutor. Here we have a wait and see attitude. Overseas it doesn't play. Offiers recruit people to spy on their own country. CIA agents recruit informants to break the law. Minimize importance of law to get informants to cooperate. They follow the history of this country. The only concern that matters is can you protect me if I do this for you? Legal niceties don't count.

Gov't took cover of operative. Danger has increased every day for two years. Danger to our nat'l security and ability to colllect intel. Not just officials but media commentators add to this, spread disinfo.

Promises no longer carry trust they once had. Every time a US official deflects responsibility, it demonstrates poltics does indeed trump national security. Debating minutiae equally damaging to our ability to collect intel. Ignorance of calling plame desk jocky is s disservice to this country, ridiculing her degreee of cover, engangers our covert capabilities. Overseas they know how this works, they know better.

Impact of those action on our agents means we don't care, loss of security means loss of agent, loss of agent means loss of information, loss of info means increased danger to people of US.

Before you speak you should think about what impact your actions will have on the people of US. A true patriot would simply shut up. Those who take pride in ability to mask fundamental truths should take responsibility for loss of security.


Revoke clearances. Instead we have flooded the airways with disinfo and partisan bickering. We have done that since the first breach of trust.

[Occulus]

51. Outstanding. Nice job with the boildown.

I don't recall CIA bigwigs coming out like this and officially, publicly describing their work to this degree of frankness.

I have a feeling things are much, much worse than any of the public is being told; I get that just from the fact that they are being so very frank.


WTF is going on? Does anybody really know what time it is?

[LisaLynne]

60. That is a great post.

It really puts into perspective the great harm this has done our country.

[Mandate My Ass]

82. Thanks guys

My former job as a transcriptionist comes in handy sometimes.

[LisaLynne]

91. We cube-rats should get together and hire you to fill us in on ...

C-Span happenings during the day. We could make it worth your while ... especially if cool stuff like this hearing is going to keep happening. :)

[Mandate My Ass]

104. LOL, I'm a cube rate too. Boss is working in another office

Cat's away, time for the mice to play. :D

[Enraged_Ape]

160. No, thank YOU

That was awesome. The more I learn about this, the more I realize that they really, REALLY screwed up. And I think we're just beginning to hear how devastating this has been.

[Mandate My Ass]

164. He was very articulate and controlled, but he was seething

It does make you wonder who may have died because of this leak, and how much other agents have been compromised. I didn't realize till he laid it out how truly damaging this is. The ripple effect is still widening.

It makes the WH stonewalling and spin even more galling.

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. question time!

:woohoo:

[The Witch]

48. are there any repubs there?

i know a bunch of cia folks said i voted for the shrub, but any congress members there?

[BlueWolff]

50. I don't think so

Maybe they are at a WH prayer meeting..praying for Rovers butt! LOL

[goclark]

150. what happened next- I just turned it on to McMichael?

Who is he and what did I miss?

[rodeodance]

53. I liked the talk of -wearing their patriotism of their sleeves!! way to go

[rodeodance]

55. "less than complete regard for the truth"--in the build up to the war!!

[LSK]

54. they are brainstorming on the next round of Wilson lies n/t

[QuettaKid]

70. tried to break it up with a false alarm evacuation....nt.

m

[in_cog_ni_to]

56. NOPE. They NEVER participate in these

hearings. They are all part of the COVER UP and I HOPE their constituents hold them accountable. They're so blatant! They have, since 2000, put politics before the country and they should PAY FOR THAT!

[LSK]

57. are the rethugs making the Senate vote during this again??

[Chichiri]

58. Actually, I think Dorgan is putting forth an amendment to something.

Anybody know what that's about, perchance?

[rodeodance]

59. talking of the distortions surrounding how she worked at a desk.

[rodeodance]

62. it was damaging intelligence assests-not just about outing V. Plame.

[dogday]

61. Wow never seen that before n/t

[rodeodance]

71. saying there is probably a 'damage assesment' document --but not

saying this should be public. The cia would have done this when found out Plame was outed.

[myrna minx]

63. Someone pulled the alarm in the Hart building?

[lala_rawraw]

73. WTF, now cspan is cutting out

WOWWOWOWOW

[myrna minx]

81. It appears to be a false alarm. The meeting is proceeding.

Whew.

[Connie_Corleone]

65. Is Rove calling in fake threats now?? LOL!

[BlueWolff]

75. Of course

He is desperate...No one bought it LMAO!!!!

[Jazzgirl]

66. Did you see that!!??!!

Officer came in about evacuating the building! Then left!!! Pukes are desperate!

[onecent]

67. ha ha reporting building being evacuated???? Jesus

[Skidmore]

68. Okay, will there be some exploration at some point

of Porter Goss' purge and it's relationship to the White House Affair.

[BlueWolff]

69. They are trying to shut down the meeting

By saying there was an evacuation in some other building...Rover is desperate! It didn't work!

[Nite Owl]

77. They were all so calm

couldn't you see the yellow belly repukes scattering like flies.

[jane_pippin]

Just as an aside,

Have there been any sightings of Sensenbastard? Someone should be on the lookout for shenannigans.

[in_cog_ni_to]

72. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Hart building is being evacuated?!!!

LOL! They have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME? Terror alert! terror alert! terror alert! Don't listen to the hearing!:eyes:

[rodeodance]

76. they said this was a false alarm.

[in_cog_ni_to]

78. thanks.

I was ready to go ballistic. ;)

[rodeodance]

79. talking of WH attached people who said WH led us war on false info.

[jane_pippin]

80. hahah! of COURSE the second I ask about Sensenbastard

this happens. Some days are just too much.

:rofl:

[in_cog_ni_to]

86. I KNOW!

They really do think we're a bunch of idiots like their sheeple are! It's absolutely AMAZING the shit they pull! sheesh!

[Chichiri]

74. I'm switching to C-SPAN 2

to see what Dorgan's gonna do there. Carry on, folks . . .

[jn2375]

94. Marcinkowski their covering their political asses instead of looking

after the welfare of the country

[jn2375]

129. Bunch at White House acted by bunch of kids fighting over baseball mits

[rodeodance]

96. talking of how the WH has to operate with high ethical standards---not

just 'criminal' (which he says WH does not do).

[rodeodance]

100. saying the seriousness is much more than he had imagined

now that he has listened to the hearings.

[The Witch]

84. Oopsie the Clown!

:spray:

[berner59]

88. Jim M says Rove should be in jail....

Go go go!!!! He said it's a crime...

[gp]

85. Oopsie the CLown?? LOL

[AnnInLa]

92. What did the TV people see??? What was this?

am listening only....thanks.

[myrna minx]

87. "If you don't like what Oopsie the Clown is doing, you fire him.

But the WH has done nothing."

[Connie_Corleone]

97. Do we call Rove "Oopsie the Clown" now?? LOL

[MelissaB]

103. Well, it's the perfect name.

:evilgrin:

[The Witch]

105. YES!

If I were not at work I'd be photoshopping a clown face on him now.

[goclark]

155. Love the name but I think

I heard the "Oopsie The Clown" mentioned as an example of someone "down the hall from KKKKarl's office."

Were they referring to KKK as "Oopsie?" I HOPE like hell that is what was said, please let me know.

[babylonsister]

89. "Nothing's Been Done." Anyone allowed in wh short of a

criminal, standards have been lowered for gov't employees, and Nothing's Been Done!

[dogday]

90. Waxman just said it, This administration does not care

about it's CIA agents or anyone else for that matter....

[babylonsister]

93. Inaction itself sends the wrong message.

[dogday]

95. It would be nice to see John Conyers tie DSM to this...... nt

[BlueWolff]

101. Maybe they will ask it in a question?

[myrna minx]

98. Conyers says this is one of the most important meetings he's attended.

[babylonsister]

99. "Consequences far more serious than he first imagined."

[HeeBGBz]

102. Wow. I take a phone call and miss a phoney security threat?

Sheesh. The War Pigs are getting panicky.

[BlueWolff]

106. Yep LOL

[Glenda]

107. Lang: Process of acquiring a foreign asset

Deep empathic relationship, trust:

You're convincing them it is the right thing to do, and that they will be protected by the US. Nothing to do with legalities... Or you have lost them.

[lala_rawraw]

110. Chalabi... HA

And there you have it

[seabeyond]

116. i am so glad they brought him up. another administration story

that if the aerican people heard about, would be appalled. yet they dont know. and it is happening.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

128. Except instead of being recruited, Felon Chalabi kept saying yoohoo!

Here I am! Here I am!

[BlueWolff]

111. Brings up Chalaby

LOL

Get too it.
How about Judith Miller aka Mrs Chalabi

[rodeodance]

115. have the networds even showed a clip of this?? curious! I flipped and

all is london stuff!!

[dogday]

108. All I need to do is say the name Amad Chalabi

[whistle]

Was that a signal of some sort that Col Lang gave by tearing....

....the piece od paper in the specific way that he did when making his comment? He had a rectangular piece of paper which he tore a square along one side, then he waved it and then put it down.

[whistle]

109. Is this panel composed entirely of democratic senators???

[babylonsister]

112. Dems and former/retired CIA agents. nt

[Jazzgirl]

113. And Congressmen.

n/t

[dogday]

114. Probably, you know the right

they never want to admit they are wrong. They have the party line to follow and they are going to follow it to the end of their careers....

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

118. All Democrats. Senators and Reps.

Sen. Schumer, Sen. Durgan, Rep. Conyers, Rep. Slaughter and Rep. Islee

[bunny planet]

120. There are former CIA agents who are (were) Republican, Larry Johnson

even said he voted for Bush because he thought he would actually bring back integrity and honesty to the WH.

[wishlist]

133. Yes, only Democratic Senators care enough about the leak for a hearing

Republicans are too busy downplaying or justifying the leak in order to provide cover for Bushco. They do not want the public to learn more about what was involved such as the leak derailing Valerie Plame's covert activites the might have turned up something embarrassing for the White House.

[wryter2000]

119. Slaughter on now

:bounce:

"the White House was on him like fuzz on a blanket." Where has this lady been all my life? :woohoo:

[The Witch]

122. Says she's ANGRY. Also asks has this happened before?

A: No. never.

[BlueWolff]

123. Asking GREAT question

She is kicking HOT!

[dogday]

121. Louise Slaughter asks have you ever had anything like this

when you have the WH spilling information to reporters.... Are they not briefed about this information....Acting like a bunch of kids with baseball mitts.....

[babylonsister]

124. Slaughter didn't realize the profound impact on the entire

intelligence community build up over decades that this outing of Plame has had. Whew!

[jane_pippin]

125. people in the white house are acting like a bunch of petulant children

damn!

[Glenda]

126. WH act like a bunch of kids fighting over baseball mitts

petulant children.... Larry Johnson

[HeeBGBz]

127. Unprecedented

To bad we can't get unpresidented.

[lala_rawraw]

132. Worse than Watergate... keep that in mind

[HeeBGBz]

136. I guess I'm with several of the speakers when they say

I hadn't really realized how bad the damage is from this outing.

[rman]

145. Worse still, all those "gates" and scandals tie together,

all symptoms of the same thing. Hopefully this case will help a few more good people to see.

[dogday]

130. Brings up Al Gore! How Dare They Drag Our Good Name

Thru The Mud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlueWolff]

134. Slaughter is FABULOUS and so articulate

[jn2375]

137. Give them some black eyes Rep Slaughter

[tanyev]

144. Brought up the temper tantrum the WH threw when O'Neill

disclosed some documents in his book. Now they don't care at all.

[whistle]

135. You can watch C-Span and specifically this hearing from the....

...C-Span website. It's on C-Span3. Here is the link:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[lala_rawraw]

138. Was that an alarm?

[jane_pippin]

139. I thought I heard a truck backing up outside of my window.

But it was on the span?

[Occulus]

141. sounded like a radio

there was micro-speek afterward

[Jazzgirl]

143. Kinda sounded like a pager.

Not sure tho...

[jane_pippin]

146. I wasn't trying to be alarmist or anything, just making sure I'm not nuts

[HeeBGBz]

148. I just heard another one

Can't tell what it is. Phone? Pager?

[Glenda]

140. THREAD #3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4166572




(also, thread #1 is here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4165667#4165674)

[whistle]

152. Holt is on and asking the panel how often they have seen....

....such exposure occur. How unusal is it, how often has this happened in the past?

Lang is responding and summed up with, "....but a deliberate exposure is something I've never seen before."

Jim Marcinkowski, former CIA officer is saying CIA agents have no defense over such an outing occurs from the very highest levels of governmenet.

David MacMichale: says such outings are clareless and throughtless and useless, unprecidented!

Karry Johnson: Wishes that a republican would come out and call a yellow dog a yellow dog. He condemed John McCain's making excuses for the things that have been done

end of Holts time

[madhat]

142. Love Holt.

Nobody can call him stupid. Should be wearing a darker jacket though.

[wryter2000]

149. McMichael said the W word

WATERGATE!

[ClayZ]

151. Where are the Republicans with integrity....

to call an ugly dog an ugly dog!!


WHOOO HOOOO!!!!!

[lady lib]

153. McCain the apologist... n/t

[bunny planet]

154. Johnson, points out McCain.

I expect better behavior from Republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!

[immoderate]

156. When they impeaxh Bush...

and these people are calling for it, then ALL the truth will come out including what happened on 9/11

--IMM

[whistle]

157. Did one of the panel witnesses say that?

[Glenda]

159. Here is thread #3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4166572&mesg_id=4166572

[immoderate]

161. asked what should be done...

one of them said he wished that Howard Baker was there.

Baker led the Republicans in forcing Nixon out. So IMO, they have called for impeachment.

--IMM

[whistle]

162. Rep Jay Inslee is on now and just read the executive order...

...about CIA action to deal with any compromise on CIA exposure

Lang gave a good summary in general of how this is typically dealt with.

Lang then said any minor comprise by a junior person may be dealt with in a disciplinary basis, but when it comes from very high levels such as the White House is a system failure which puts all concerned in jeopardy and so should have been dealt with immediately and decisively.

Larry Johnson just brought up John Bolton's abuses and linked this to the intimidation factor that this sort of action causes.

[whistle]

163. Powerful hearing...Waxman closed with GHW Bush's statement

...which he read:

"I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors." -- President George H. W. Bush (1999)