Have you ever met anyone who was "pro-abortion"?

[bluestateguy]

Have you ever met anyone who actually thought that abortion was a good thing and that women should be encouraged to get abortions?

I have, but only once, and he was a conservative. Ten years ago there was this guy on who lived in my freshman dormitory who was more of a paleoconservative: a Pat Buchanan supporter, anti-immigrant, English only as a matter of policy, anti-free trade and very isolationist on foreign policy; he favored deep defense cuts and pulling out of the UN; he was also bitterly anti-tax and he bitterly hated Bill Clinton.

But he called himself pro-abortion because according to his reasoning, as he told me, "If I get a girl pregnant, she's getting an abortion if I have to force her to the clinic myself." Being a father would disrupt his plans. I remember him saying that he would not "allow" his girlfriend to choose to have the baby if she became pregnant. He felt that too many people in this country were having kids who were not yet ready to do so, and being bad parents as a result. He also said that abortion was good population control, and that he was not likely to ever want to have kids. Not exactly a progressive stance.

I just think its funny that the only overtly "pro-abortion" person I ever met was a conservative, registered Republican.

[sniffa]

1. i'm one

i Love abortion! if i couLd, i'd go around abortionizing everyone.

[movonne]

2. I thought real hard on that question, and the answer is...NO. good

question....

[Wetzelbill]

3. no I haven't and your story is the first time I heard of someone

that guy is f'ed up.

[Iris]

47. Wish I could say the same.

When I taught in a rural part of my state, all the white people voted Republican, but when I asked them about choice, they said abortion should be REQUIRED for some people.

There are many, many Republicans who think abortion would be perfectly acceptable for certain segments of the population.

[Burma Jones]

4. Yep

In college. He thought all pregnant women on public assistance, or in prison, should be treated to a mandatory abortion and followed up with sterilization. He came from Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.......

[bluestateguy]

9. My classmate was for doing that too

He was an admitted scientific and social Darwinist (not a religious conservative at all and even a bit anti-Semetic). He believed that only the strong should survive and that we should not encourage the underclass to reproduce. Hence he favored abolishing all welfare.

[jmm]

16. Who then did he expect to pick his fruit?

:shrug:

[redqueen]

5. Nope, I sure haven't.

Doesn't surprise me at all that the only one you met was a conservative.

[CatholicEdHead]

6. No I have not

most often it is a last option due to other crisises in their lives.

[Maple]

7. No, never!

Never pro-abortion...only pro-choice.

In that the GOVT should never be allowed rights over YOUR body.

[Kerrytravelers]

8. I can't imagine anyone who would.

Isn't it grand how the fundy rethugs have this image of us dragging innocent young girls across state lines, throwing them on a cold table and cramming their feet into stirrups.

Un-fucking-believable.:eyes:

[imenja]

10. I did know a woman who had them far too frequently

and obviously had no moral problem with it. She had three or four by her mid 20s. I pointed out she might consider being more zealous with birth control, but she seemed unconcerned. I'm free choice, but I found
her attitude disturbing.

I'd call her pro-abortion.

[lapislzi]

19. Your post sounds disturbingly judgemental

Who are you to tell someone how to conduct her sexual and reproductive affairs? Would you like it if someone said the same thing to you?

It's a damned slippery slope you're going down. The fact is that it's none of yours, or my, or anyone else's damn business what that woman undertakes with her doctor.

And, for the record, I'm pro abortion. Sometimes it's the BEST option.

[imenja]

23. I didn't tell her

but I did have my thoughts and suggested she use birth control. I have a right to my own views, even if they don't agree with yours. Just as you have a right to have all the abortions you want. I wouldn't dream of trying to impede your doing so, but that doesn't mean I have to think it's okay. Abortion is a moral issue. You have every right to form your own moral judgments and I have mine.

[Somawas]

11. Did he also think it deplorable

that his mother had not had an abortion?

[Guckert]

12. no, just pro choice. Just like most people you ask would not have an

abortion, however they do prefer to have the CHOICE if they where faced with that tough decision. Even dumbass anti abortionist would like the CHOICE if they were raped or had a GOP father that got them pregnant. they just wont say it out loud. God might be listening. :sarcasm:

[Guckert]

17. Have you ever met anyone who was not Pro-Life?? that was not a Repuke hyp

hypocrite??. I think most people are pro life. except serial killers and pro death penalty governors from Tx.
We should change the name from Pro-Life to Anti choice?? any other suggestions. maybe Pro-poor unwanted kids with dead crack whore mothers.

[Ilsa]

13. So this guy thought the docs would do a procedure on a

young woman obviously forced into it by her boyfriend? I wonder how far he'd go after she left still pregnant? Poison her? Stab her abdomen? Spike her food with teratogenic herbs or something?

[Raster]

14. No, no one is pro-abortion. Not even your "friend." He was just

pro-abortion to abdicate any personal responsibility.

There's another thread floating around about how we have to reach out more to pro-life voters. I don't like the framing nor the semantics. Many persons that consider themselves pro-life also consider themselves pro-choice. It's the issue of choice we need to focus on. The fundies have framed the discussion as pro-abortion or not, pro-life or not. It's time to take the discussion out of their parameters and present in a way most rational, logical Americans can wrap their little minds around it. Very simply put, does a woman have the right to decide whether to carry a pregnancy to fruition or to terminate the pregnancy? Nothing else matters. No gray side issues. Do women have control over their own bodies and their reproductive freedom? If women do not have the right to choose, then they are less of citizens then their male counterparts. This is the nucleus of the issue, not the right or wrong, moral or immoral. It's choice and the freedom to choose. You can be pro-life and pro-choice. I am.

[Synnical]

15. I think women should have the right to "abortion on demand"

No waiting period, no parental consent. Does that make me pro-abortion? Probably in some peoples eyes. But, it's my body, my life, my choice.

Let me state that I've had more than one abortion and have Absolutely No Regrets.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

[Raster]

20. bless your heart. As Chris Rock says, "abortion is not a man's issue."

And I agree. It's a man's issue ONLY on the periphery. No more. When men can conceive AND become pregnant, then they can join the front ranks of the discussion. We need to COMPLETELY ditch "pro-abortion." It's just a term the fundies have forced upon us. We are pro-choice. Period. You can choose to terminate or you can choose to deliver. IT'S YOUR CHOICE!!!

[0rganism]

18. IIRC, there was a parody site up for a while...

...back in the early days of blogs, when they were still just message boards with frequent diary updates by the owners, there was a site called "oldmanmurray.com" where the proto-bloggers would discuss their plans to force abortions in the name of pre-crime prevention.

One of the more naive arguments against abortion rights is, "your baby could be the next Einstein!" Yeah, and you could win the lottery too, but never mind. These guys took it a step further, and posited that "your baby could be the next Hitler!"

So one of their pet "goals" was to have a time machine that would let them investigate the possible futures of particular fetuses, and force miscarriages on the women with the really nasty "unborn serial killers".

Hey, their site's still up! And it's got semi-new material, too:
http://www.oldmanmurray.com/
They used to have the best game reviews on the net, but it's been a while since I read their stuff.

[BamaLefty]

21. No

And I never will.

[lapislzi]

22. Abortion is not necessarily a horrible thing

That is part of the anti-choice rhetoric that has become self-propagating. Why is abortion horrible? Why should it be? It's a medical procedure to terminate pregnancy. If you're going to get all caught up in the idea that you're killing babies, well, THEN it becomes a horrible thing.

I have had an abortion. It was uncomfortable, physically. That's about the worst I can say about it. The procedure corrected a condition that never should have occurred in the first place.

My life would very likely be awful right now had I been unable to make that choice. Abortion was the best option for me and my partner at the time. We discussed it; no regrets. I was in a far better place when I actually chose to become pregnant and my daughter is now my greatest joy.

I'm not going to engage in "woulda, coulda, shoulda." It's counterproductive. Abortion's a medical procedure. It only becomes loaded when you assign value and judgement to it.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. Well, many people do

assign value and judgement to it. So long as that assignment concerns their own choices, I don't see a problem with it.

I would not have an abortion, personally. I DO think it's a difficult situation, a difficult choice with no black and white good answers. I also think I'm the only one qualified to make that choice for myself, and every other woman is likewise the only person qualified to make her own choice.

[Ariana Celeste]

33. Great reply.

"It only becomes loaded when you assign value and judgement to it."

And that's the damned truth.

[tanyev]

24. I think that's one area where we could frame the issue better.

The pro-life squads are constantly painting us as pro-abortion, and that's not exactly correct, in my opinion anyway. I would like to see the emphasis be on comprehensive sex ed and easy access to all kinds of birth control.

[patricia92243]

25. Not pro-abortion, but the reality is that women ARE going to have them. So

that being the case, they should be performed in a safe clean environment.

[DanCa]

26. it's a surgical procedure for heavens sake.

Who the hell wants surgery if they dont need one? Another reason I wont be prolife. I hate the way these people try to manipulate emotion. Yeah know once Batman had the antidote the scarecrow was pretty pathetic with his burlap sack. Just a little piss ant who he could snap like a twig.

[housewolf]

27. No, but I had a big fight with my brother last year of Arnold being "pro-a

No, but I had a big fight with my brother last year of Arnold being "pro-abortion"

My brother is a pro-choice Dem. He said that Arnold was pro-abortion.

I said Arnold might be pro-choice but probably wasn't "pro-abortion."

He maintained that he spoke correctly.

I told him that pro-abortion would apply to someone out there advvocating for abortions, trying to convince people to have abortions.

I said that maybe he was "pro-abortion rights" but the term "pro-abortion" was a right-wing distortion that didn't represent anyone's views.
Saying that someone is pro-abortion is like saying that someone is pro-pornography.

There are many things in our society that we allow but don't necessarily advocate. If you advocate for something, you are "pro-" That's why I prefer the use of the term "pro-choice." I'll always advocate for free choice on issues.

[DanCa]

30. You know what so tragic about the right wing

Is that the drive so many people away from the middle ground that it is impossible to have more than to trains of thought on this subject. In a sense there there actions have polarized this country and are causing equally strong reaction.
For instance I am tired of having my christanity attacked by them for not seeing eye on the two issues reproductive medicine and gay marriage. I go to an immeadiate flight or fight response mood. Add my mood swings from my parkinsons meds and am my first knee jerk response is too go into attack. But I probably said too much eh?

[smirkymonkey]

28. I AM!!

As long as it's conceived by a member of the Bush family.

[Ariana Celeste]

31. Yes.

A liberal socialist, like myself. Believes there are far far too many people on this planet and while it wouldn't save us, more abortions and less children could make a small dent. I can't say I completely disagree.

[imenja]

34. and war, genocide, and suicide, or murder?

also good ideas?

Sounds ultra right wing to me

[Ariana Celeste]

35. we're ultra right wing huh.

I think you're reading something that isn't there.

War, no. We are both opposed to all war except for in self defense or cases like WW2.

Genocide? Lol. No. Murder, no. Both are wrong. There is no sense in killing people. I'd be offended at your accusation if you hadn't called my husband and I ultra right wing. That just tells me that you can't handle a different opinion.

There is a huge difference between abortion and murder/genocide/war. A clump of cells is nothing.

As far as suicide goes, if someone wants to kill themselves, that's none of my business.

Take your assumptions elsewhere.

[imenja]

43. advocating population control of others is offensive

women have the right to make their own reproductive choices. When you start advocating that others should have abortions that verges on eugenics. Population growth is ENTIRELY in the poor countries of the world. Europe and the US all have negative population growth. So better make sure those black and brown people don't reproduce. That is what your argument amounts to, whether you recognize it or not.

In the US, the groups that advocate population control focus largely on immigration, since that is the only growth the US population experiences. In fact, even with immigration our population growth is negative. If not for immigration, it would decline far more precipitously.

[Ariana Celeste]

44. Oh, please.

Yes women have that right, and it should never be taken away from them. Please point to where I said that right should be taken away.

I think abortion should be encouraged in some situations. There are FAR too many kids in foster homes and on the waiting list to be adopted, who WON'T be adopted, because all anyone ever wants is a cute little white baby with blue eyes. There are FAR too many drug addicted women who give birth to babies they can't take care of. There are FAR too many abused women who give birth because they feel that they HAVE to, and along that line there are far too many women *period* who give birth because they feel they HAVE to. Not because they want the baby, because they feel they HAVE to. There are FAR too many women who keep popping out child after child who all get taken away by CPS for abuse and neglect.

When I was with my last boyfriend, he had a nephew who I grew very attached to. Nobody ever talked to him in normal language, if they paid any attention to him at all. He wasn't learning to walk, he wasn't learning to talk. He wasn't fed enough, he wasn't bathed enough. This woman was a meth addict and a pill popper, who would drop this child off at my ex boyfriends mothers house regularly because he was "too much to handle" or she "needed time alone". What that time alone always amounted to was partying and drugs. It got to the point where ex's mother no longer wanted responsibility either. So the childs mom had no one to drop the kid off with. One day the child was crawling through her home and found one of her pills on the floor and ate it. Got very sick and hospitalized. Finally CPS took him. They told her she needed to get clean if she ever wanted her child back. So while crying about not having her kid, and how their request was so hard and unreasonable, she kept partying and kept popping pills. That was the 4th child she had taken away from her. There are too many women out there like her. If I had been older, and financially capable, i would have done everything I could to take care of this child. But I was 17, making $250 a month. All I could do was *try* to teach him how to talk, until he was taken away.

I would never begrudge somebody their right to have a child, or children, that they want and can take care of.

Stop reading what isn't there.

[imenja]

45. if you read through the other posts on this thread

you'll find posters who had conversations with very conservative Republicans who voice the same opinions. Then of course there are judges that try to order sterilization of black women. It would seem to me that increased access to birth control and education, as well as economic development that results in job opportunities for the poor would be the liberal or socialist way of combating such problems. What you describe is a function of poverty and poor education.

[Ariana Celeste]

38. Since it's far too late to edit,

Let me clarify.

More abortions does not mean forced abortions. It means what it says. Nothing more, nothing less.

There are families out there with 8 children and more. If that's not ridiculous, I don't know what is. Would we ever vote or call for legislation against it? No. People should always be allowed to have the right to have as many kids as they like. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be of the opinion that it is ridiculous.

[tanyev]

40. But why not put the primary focus on contraception?

[Ariana Celeste]

41. That's important too. Very much so

I don't think enough teenage girls are taught about correct use of contraception, what works, and how well.
If it were up to *me* contraception would be free for teenagers. And much more affordable for adults. That's how it should be! When I was a young teen, I had to sneak to Planned Parenthood when my mom was at work. It's not that I hadn't been taught about sex and all that goes with it by her- it was just that I was 15 and already getting active and since it was younger than I knew my mother would expect, I was kind of ashamed of myself. So I went in and found out that I'd have to find a way to pay for it if I wanted more than the first batch of pills. I couldn't, I didn't make any money. And I certainly wasn't anywhere near ready to talk to my mom.
Fortunately I didn't end up pregnant, but I can imagine thousands of other girls in the exact same position. And as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be like that. Lower income teens, like I was, can't afford good contraception in most cases.
I have a lot of ideas on this subject, I was only answering 1 question with my first post & clarification. :)

[klyon]

39. studies have tried to link abortion with reduction in crime

Unwanted children are statistically more prone to commit crimes therefore abortion reduces crime.

We will see if crime goes back up after abortions are made illegal.

KL

[Lorien]

32. Only once here on DU

but I suspect (and hope) that person was just a troll.

[Tommymac]

36. Only Bigots and Red necks

Met quite a few who think that all minorities shoould be sterilized or be forced to abort unless they had 'permits' to have kids. They didn't see them as people, so the argument that their fetus's were people didn't apply.

Of coarse, they were totally against abortions for white folk -

Sick people. Glad I don't live in those parts of the country anymore. (Not all in the South either.)

[electron_blue]

37. yes and I'm not making this up

My ex would rant and rave that if people had more abortions the world would be a better place. Once when I was pg he yelled at me that I should get an abortion. He hated the idea of people having babies.

Yes, I know this makes me look like an idiot for being with him. I wised up, finally.

But to answer the question, yes. He would unequivocably say he was "pro-abortion".

[watercolors]

42. I am

It is a woman's right to make that disision.

[GinaMaria]

46. yes, one right wing nut I had the misfortune

of working with believed unwed mothers should be forced to get abortions so he wouldn't have to pay wellfare to support her and her kids. He actually said "I'm pro-abortion". That freep turned my stomach. This guy was a registered southern republican.

[Iris]

48. But that's why we call ourselves "Pro-choice" because it is the WOMAN'S

choice what she will do with her body and if she thinks having a abortion is wrong, no one should be forcing her to have one.

[Must_B_Free]

49. More flamebait? we must be bored...