FBI Interrogator in Iraq to US Citizen Prisoner: "Who Did You Vote For?"

[leftchick]

This is just an amazing story of this poor filmmaker in the wrong place. It is outrageous as well. It is well worth reading the whole story. He was first taken to Abu Ghraib and it seems it is still the hellhole for humanity it was a year ago. :(

This part is disgusting as well. The FBI interrogator asks this question to a US Citizen held captive in Iraq by US troops...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-cyrus24jul24,0,5285780.story?page=1

<snip>

During the interrogation, Kar said, he was asked one question that startled him.

"Are you registered to vote in California?" he was asked.

He said he was.

"Who did you vote for?"

He hesitated. "For a split second, I realized what a political prisoner must feel like in a fascist state," Kar said he thought to himself.

"I voted for Kerry," Kar said he told the agents, then proceeded to justify his vote. "But I believe in Bush's foreign policy. I believed in bringing democracy to countries where . . . bullies kept kicking people when they were down."

:wow:

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Sounds like some kind of sick skit on SNL

[Deja Q]

2. Non-sequitur.

"I believed in bringing democracy to countries where . . . bullies kept kicking people when they were down."

The former doesn't mean in the slightest the latter will happen.

[AX10]

29. The BeauroRATs are the real tyrants.

This agent belongs in GITMO!

[amber dog democrat]

3. I would have said Nader

None of their damned business.

[iamjoy]

5. Not Always That Easy

when they are intimidating you to be cool, besides, sometimes the shock alone (if not fear) makes you say things. Like, "they're really asking me this question? :wtf:

Thee is far more to be of concern here then just that question, but it is almost symbolic, or maybe foreshadowing of where our country may be headed.

[amber dog democrat]

6. They are behaving like Thought Police.

Or GESTAPO. I agree.

[leftchick]

7. Kar had it exactly right...

Our country is already there....

"For a split second, I realized what a political prisoner must feel like in a fascist state,"

[mazzarro]

9. Same here with me - no damn business of theirs!

eom

[amber dog democrat]

11. Reminds me of when I was having my car searched

by some of Dallas's finest years ago. I told the lady officer she didnt have permission to search my car. Her reponse : " you can sue us all you like after we take you downtown " and they proceeded to search.

Fortunately they did NOT find the baggie of weed my brother stashed under the seat - with out my knowledge. My not knowing is probably what saved me.

True storey.

[The Jacobin]

28. Easy to say from the comfort of your computer chair

Much more difficult actually being in Iraq with thoughts of Bagram going through your mind looking at a thug who may hold your life in your hands based on the answers you give.

[derby378]

4. Nominate the hell outta this one, people!!

No justice in Iraq, no peace in Iraq. What a splendid little war.

[stellanoir]

8. Let's see

55 days in prison. . .getting one's face slammed against a cinder block. . .

"Kar said U.S. officials had damaged his passport. In addition, he said, $600 in cash, his digital camera with 300 still photos, as well as sunglasses, and a cellphone had disappeared. Also lost were data from his Palm Pilot, including the names of dozens of people he planned to credit for help on the film.

The hotel also tried to stick him with a $1,500 bill for the time he was imprisoned. Kar said he settled for $300.

Finally, the ICRC flew Kar to Amman, Jordan. From there, he paid $1,500 to fly to Los Angeles.

After he got back, Kar was shown the statement Defense Department officials issued the day he was released. It said his freedom "highlights the effectiveness of our detainee review process." "
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
How remarkably effective indeed. Hope this guy writes a scathing script about his experience and makes a frigging fortune.

[amber dog democrat]

10. surprised he did not just disappear.

that would have tied up a few loose ends. I don't suppose we are not at this point already.

[leftchick]

12. And the soldiers bragging about torture...

sick...

<snip>

The soldiers began making references to the prison torture scandal at Abu Ghraib. "We used to strip you guys and line you up like pyramids," he recalled one soldier saying.

[Inland]

13. But if he said "Bush", then they would know he could NEVER be a criminal

because a terrorist criminal can't even utter the holy and righteous name of Bush without stammering or something. It's in the Bible, look it up.

[Cha]

22. I know..I was thinking if I

were under those circumstances and asked that question I might have LIED to give them the answer that would get myself outta there.

Wonder how the fbi feels about the bush regime outing cia agents?

[doublethink]

14. Fascism .... everytime I hear a story like this ...

I see our Country falling deeper into that sort of existence, while most of America sleeps on unaware. Peace.

* exalts the nation, (and sometimes the race or culture) above the individual, with the state apparatus being supreme.
* stresses loyalty to a single leader.
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
* engages in syndicalist corporatism.
* implements totalitarian systems.

[kestrel91316]

31. Right now I am reading Sinclair Lewis' book .................

IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE. Absolutely chilling are the similarities to today's political scene. This book should be required reading for every DUer. Get it while you can. They will no doubt ban it some day soon.



MY 1000th post!!!!!!!!!!

[doublethink]

33. Well I'm honored to have had something to do with ....

your 1000th post !!! Dumb luck on my part huh? :) Anyway congrats on your 1000th !! :toast: ... I have bout 25 or so to go .... hmmmm and thanks for the tip on the book, now I'm going to have to get a copy of it !!! For sure. :)

[dogday]

15. He is an American Citizen and that in itself

should be enough. Asking who he voted for is crap, pure and simple....

[G_j]

16. FBI Builds Huge File on Antiwar, Rights Groups

no surprise at all..

--

FBI Builds Huge File on Antiwar, Rights Groups
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/071805Z.shtml

Large Volume of FBI Files Alarms US Activist Groups
By Eric Lichtblau
The New York Times

Monday 18 July 2005

Washington - The Federal Bureau of Investigation has collected at least 3,500 pages of internal documents in the last several years on a handful of civil rights and antiwar protest groups in what the groups charge is an attempt to stifle political opposition to the Bush administration.

The F.B.I. has in its files 1,173 pages of internal documents on the American Civil Liberties Union, the leading critic of the Bush administration's antiterrorism policies, and 2,383 pages on Greenpeace, an environmental group that has led acts of civil disobedience in protest over the administration's policies, the Justice Department disclosed in a court filing this month in a federal court in Washington.

<snip>
But officials at the two groups said they were troubled by the disclosure.

"I'm still somewhat shocked by the size of the file on us," said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the A.C.L.U. "Why would the F.B.I. collect almost 1,200 pages on a civil rights organization engaged in lawful activity? What justification could there be, other than political surveillance of lawful First Amendment activities?"

..more..

[leftchick]

17. so...

With my tax $$ no less they are spying on HARMLESS groups.

:grr:

[G_j]

19. and this story came out

just days before the House voted to make the PATRIOT Act permanent!

:grr:is right!

[Lannes]

18. Wish he had said..

"Yo mamma" :P

[nashville_brook]

20. '"Everything's for a reason, man," said the soldier in fatigues...'

As shown in the Milgram experiments it is cultural norms which inform the participants' behavior patterns. All you have to do is think backward from the way this film maker was treated.

"Everything's for a reason, man"

What does this tell us about the "cultural norm" of our soldiers in Iraq?

"Everything's for a reason, man"

from "They're finally all the same"
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/8/5/225025/4082

"...In both Milgram's experiments and the Stanford experiment, the participants are doing their best to conform to social norms. The dissonance lies in the fact that these social norms are presented in a context that goes against the internal norms of most of the participants. However shocking these studies might seem, the fact remains that sometimes in real life, people are placed in situations where their internal ethics conflict with those of society. In this case, one must either go against social norms and follow one's internal ethics or one must sublimate one's own ethics by shifting responsibility onto authority or society. Because the majority of Westerners wish to be accepted, when there is a conflict between their norms and society's, they choose society's unless they witness other members of society violating the norms. Then one can redefine social norms to reflect the fact that there is a social group compatible with one's internal norms. This does not occur often in Western society, and so Westerners are forced into a state of ethical and moral duality, periodically choosing whether they should violate dissonant social norms or force their internal norms to conform (Levy, 1997).

""

""

""

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[nashville_brook]

27. must i paint you a picture

George Orwell wrote that "the nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."

everything's for a reason, man


must i paint you a picture?
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/must-i-paint-you-picture.html

[Frederik]

21. That's disgusting

[donco6]

23. Maybe we have this "Bring 'Em Home" thing wrong.

If the segment of our military force who are of the brownshirt variety actually return to the US with little to do, won't that make them ripe for fascist exploitation? Hitler did it.

[leftchick]

24. that is a very scary scenario

and very real as well.

[johannes1984]

25. my worry exactly

what about the group who have over the last few years come to believe the ideology of republicanism .That ideology being heil to the president and screw all else .They will be left empty if the US ever come to it's senses again .Look at SA , they had shitloads of problems with pockets of armed forces from all echelons not adhering to democratic principles .Leave a person who can handle arms and warfare ,yet not philosophy or life ,without a leader ,and you leave him open to the misconception and or delugion of megalomania .Which knowing the neocon bastards is something they wouldn't be hesitant about exploiting .

If you ask me there's only one thing we can do , say dimebag and if they answer in a cartmanesque voice , you hippy , send them to sweden for a few years .Just breaks you're violence level right down .

Let's hope though it's all going to be all right again , the smithsonian making a dark room for the bush period papers ,

[Benbow]

26. That's a very rude question in the UK - and the answer is usually

"That is between me and the ballot box".

[fujiyama]

30. Freedom is in the air!

The US and UK are bringing freedom to the world by indefinete detentions and summary executions!

[Rose Siding]

32. He's a brave man

They robbed him, caged him, had a goon smash his face, used their own trumped up photo against him, FLAUNTED the Abu Graib abuses in his face and he was still truthful.

All three were held in a large outdoor "cage," where they lay in fetal positions, pressed against a brick wall.

Each was given a bottle of water.

"I'm a U.S. citizen, I served in the armed forces, is this the how you treat one of your own?" he said he asked the soldier who locked him up.

"Everything's for a reason, man," the soldier in fatigues and flak jacket told him.

:cry: :grr: :cry:

[Luminous Animal]

34. I don't get it...

The quotes in the original poster's post are nowhere to be found in the linked article.

[Stirk]

35. It's on page 5 of the article.

Links are on bottom.

[Luminous Animal]

36. Thank you (n/t)

[Stand and Fight]

37. EXTREMELY DISTURBING

Consider this fact -- the troops over there, in Iraq, have been visited by one of the Right's biggest hate mongers, Rush Limbaugh. They also listen to him VERY regularly... Do you guys know the sorts of things he says about the LEFT and how we are against the troops in Iraq? You do know what that could mean if they come back, don't you? Sleepers... Naw, never mind -- that's just crazy conspiracy talk.

Just because it was an FBI agent who asked him this does not mean that it wasn't really a member of the DoD. How would he know? And soldiers taking part in this -- the thuggish treatment of a former fellow GI and an American citizen. This is very alarming when you take the question about whom he voted for into account...

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Simply disgusting

I hate all this so much. It just disgusts me.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. This part also got me

n a June 14 letter, he wrote: "I have held without being charged for almost one month now. I've been patient and compliant, yet I sit here, fate unknown. I now, officially and for the record, request a lawyer.

"My whole incarceration has been an outrageous affront to my Civil Rights as a citizen of the United States."

The letter, a copy of which was provided to The Times along with others, was signed "Thank you, Cyrus Kar, prisoner £ 174."

The same day, unbeknownst to Kar, FBI agent Wilson returned to Kar's family all the items that were seized from his apartment. Kar's aunt and her daughter, Shahrzad Folger, said the agent told them Kar had passed a lie detector test, and had been "cleared" of any possible charges.

Four weeks had passed since Kar had been detained.