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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:21 AM
Original message
The Unknown Soldier
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 08:39 AM by H2O Man
"For all the speculation about Rove's fate and despite a failed attempt by Senate Democrats to have Rove's security clearance revoked, within the White House there was little sign of panic. 'They think Karl is bulletproof,' says a former Administration official who is familiar with the issue and the players. 'They think, "We won a second term. We control Congress." They don't think Karl is any real jeapardy."
-- "The Rove Problem"; Nancy Gibbs; Time; 7-25-05; pages 32 & 34.

In a White House that takes great pride in its ability to "control" the news, at least in the corporate media, the above quote -- from an "unnamed" former Administration official -- has raised the hair on the back of many necks. While the general public, reading the full article, would take little or no special notice of such a comment, those in the cross-hairs of Fitzgerald's investigation know that there is a man outside of their control .... who is talking. He's talking to the press, and he's talking to other sources.

This morning, I thought that we could examine a fellow who poses a serious problem for those Bush administration officials who are beginning to feel the pressure that Nixon administration felt 32 years ago. To keep this little essay simple -- so simple that even a republican could understand it -- I thought we should rely primarily upon a single source of information. So grab your copy of Bob Woodward's "Plan of Attack," the self-proclaimed "definitive account of the decision to invade Iraq," and let's have some fun examing what the book tells us about Dick Armitage.

Woodward understands Dick Armitage quite well. Dick graduated from the US Naval Academy in 1967. He served four tours in Vietnam, which made him a rarity in the Bush2 administration. He taught counterinsurgency, in programs which resulted from President Kennedy's beliefs in the future of armed conflict. In the 1980s, he served in the Reagan administration, under the criminal "leadership" of Casper Weinberger, as the assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs.

It was during this time that he bacame best friends with Colin Powell. Woodward notes that the two began talking to each other several times each day, something he compared to teen-aged pals. He calls Armitage "Powell's best friend, adviser, and most outspoken advocate." (page 20)

In the early months of the Bush administration, Armitage often joked to Powell that the two of them were "being kept in the freezer," because they were at odds with Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. Cheney and Rumsfeld certainly had complete access to Bush and Karl Rove. Powell had to go through Condi Rice in order to reach the president, something that was unprecedented considering his position.

A week before 9-11, Time magazine ran a cover story, "Where Have You Gone, Colin Powell?" The story was clearly based upon information given to Time by someone in the White House who, for the sake of this essay, we will call "Karl Rove." The story was an obvious attempt by Rove to pressure Powell to toe the Cheney line. In my opinion, it marked a the beginning of a significant trend: Powell seems to have become weaker, and more willing to humiliate himself, while Armitage becomes the stronger of the two, despite his official position as being his friend's assistant.

Just after 9-11, the New York Times ran an article, "Bush's Advisors Split on Scope of Retaliation." The topic was the talk of targeting Iraq for posing a threat to the USA, in relationship to 9-11. The article made clear that Powell was strongly opposed to targeting Iraq, while Wolfowitz and "Scooter" Libby were advocating an attack on Iraq.

Those who have followed the Plame Threads will recall my saying from "thread one" on that, even within the administration, there are those who perform from behind a curtain of complete secrecy. Libby is one of those people. When he saw his name in print on this, he told Woodward he considered it "scandalous." He immediately went to confront Armitage.

Woodward describes Armitage as looking like a cross between Daddy Warbucks and a professional wrestling champion. He is a large man, who though 56 when this book was published, is aware of his strengths. A man who served four tours in Vietnam is not intimidated by those in the administration who found ways to avoid serving in the military. The situation, described on page 50 of "Plan of Attack," marks the point when Armitage is no longer considered trustworthy by the neocons.

The neocons' "plan of attack" is to go to a friend at the New York Times, and plant a story about how while Rumsfeld is a tough man, looking to protect American interests, Colin Powell is "soft," and doesn't recognize the need to take agressive actions to keep Americans safe. Yet, as noted, Armitage specialized in "counterinsurgency." He intervened and had some changes made in the 12-1-02 NYT's article. He laughed about how this upset the neocons; Woodward quotes him as saying, "Oh, State, they're in the game. They want to get these fuckers." (pages 38-9)

In the build-up to the invasion of Iraq, Powell continued to oppose the Cheney blueprint. Woodward's book includes a number of quotes, such as this one from page 183: "So Powell and Cheney went at it yet again in a blistering argument." When Powell had wrote his book, "My American Journey," he had experienced some difficulty in telling about the cold shoulder that Cheney had always turned towards him. Armitage had helped him with that section. Now Dick advised Powell to talk directly to President Bush.

Armitage and Powell had discussed the "pottery barn rule" of "you break it, you own it," as it applied to Iraq. Armitage in particular was unimpressed with Douglas Feith's plans for post-Saddam Iraq. Many of the people with military experience found the "high-pitched" Feith annoying; DUers will remember General Tommy Franks told his friends about Feith: "I have to deal with the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth almost every day."

The neocons were not pleased with Armitage's influence on Powell. They had resented a NYT's article that noted Karl Rove having increasing involvement in foreign affairs. Rove had wanted to exercise control over Powell. The neocons saw Powell doing things like putting three "career people" in jobs that usually went to "political appointees" .... meaning those were jobs Rove had planned to fill. The three that Powell put in place, without consulting Rove, included a democrat under Armitage.

"We're never going to say no to you," Rove wrote to Powell. "(Now) what are you going to do for us?" (page 127)

As the build-up to the invasion of Iraq built strength, the neocons decided to try to draw Dick Armitage in. The White House "Communications" had come up with a document they called "Apparatus of Lies." It was 33 pages of information about Saddam's hidden WMD programs and capacities. Armitage, who was aware that the vast majority of the information was from the pre-Gulf War era, told Woodward that the document was "bullshit." (page 286) The White House pressured Armitage to use the document for a speech, in coordination for one being given by Wolfowitz.

"This is awful. I'm not going to touch it," Armitage told them. However, the pressure increased -- meaning that the man in charge, Dick Cheney, was demanding he use it in a speech. Finally, he agreed, upon the condition thatr he would not accept White House "clearance" for his speech.

On January 21, 2003, Armitage addressed the US Institute of Peace. He told this group, established by Congress to promote peace, that he had recently addressed alma mater, the US Naval Academy. He said of the 4000 midshipmen he had spoken to, "I sincerely hope that not one of those young men or young women -- or any of our other service members -- is sent into harm's way in Iraq. That is what we at the Department of State -- and indeed across the government -- are working hard to avoid." At the end of his speech, Armitage noted that the document "Apparatus of Lies" was avaliable in the back of the room. "I recommend it to you to the extent that the past is prologue."(pages 286-7)

Four days later, Armitage was one of the White House officials that listened to a presentation by Scooter Libby on the dangers posed to the USA by Saddam. Woodward notes: "Armitage was appalled at what he considered overreaching and hyperbole. Libby was drawing only the worst conclusions from fragments and silky threads." (page 290)

Colin Powell, in preparing to present the administration's case for war to the United Nations, spent Saturday, February 1st, at the CIA. There, analysts showed him what they actually knew about Iraq. Powell was stunned. That night, he called Armitage, who agreed to go with him to CIA headquarters the next day. (page 299)

Woodward notes: "At times, Powell thought Chalabi was the biggest problem they had in Iraq. From the reports Armitage received from Iraq, most Iraqis thought Chalabi was a knucklehead. And though it was denied by others in the administration, Armitage believed that Chalabi had provided hyped WMD intelligence that made its way to Bush and Cheney before the war." (page 433) Armitage wanted the CIA and Congress to investigate Chalabi's role. (Speaking of Judith Miller.....)

By this time, Woodward reports that Armitage realized Powell and he were not able to exert any positive influence on the administration. He recognized they were enabling the administration. A close friend from Congress told Armitage that he and Powell had failed in their attempts to do what was right.

A new co-worker, who had been employed in a right-wing think tank, told Armitage he could serve as a bridge to the neocons. "You're on our team. You don't bridge shit. I've known those fuckers for thirty years. You ain't bridging shit," Armitage told him.

Three weeks later, the guy told Armitage that he was right. "I had no idea," he said. "It's mind-numbing." (page 433)

Armitage knew he would be leaving the administration. But he wouldn't go before Powell. However, he did take a new approach. Throughout the remainder of his service, when Powell approached him about a problem with the neocons, Armitage would say, "Tell these people to fuck themselves." (page 414)

Condi Rice was sent to talk to Armitage about his "all-too-apparent distress." He outlined his views. On October 12, 2003, the Washington Post had a front-page article, "Rice Fails to Repair Repair Rifts, Officials Say; Cabinet Rivalries Complicate Her Role." The article was by the paper's two State Department reporters, and it read very similar to the opinions Armitage had outlined to Rice.

Rice went to Powell to express her concerns that Armitage was the "unnamed source" of the information. Powell brushed her off. He realized, he later told Woodward, that Rice was more interested in finding someone to blame for saying there was a problem publicly, than in addressing the problem. (pages 414-5)

And thus ended the neocons' relationship with Dick Armitage .... at least for the time. I recognize that some DUers might be thinking, "Hey, Water Man, have you lost your mind? Speaking well of a guy like Dick Armitage?" I am very aware of his background, from the Reagan years through PNAC. My point is, in part, that the neocons are facing potential dangers when republicans are seeing them as posing a serious problem to the stability of our cuntry. A number of DUers have a relative like Armitage, maybe an uncle, maybe a cousin. They are the type of guy that you have argued about politics with at every family function (weddings, reunions, funerals) for the past thirty years. But, in a strange way, you know that they really do care about America, and that -- even if they hate to admit it -- they find things like the war in Iraq and the lies about WMDs and the exposing of Valerie Plame unacceptable.

Thank goodness some of them still have media connections.
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Another great read. One small typo
9th paragraph from the end:

Woodward notes: "At times, Powell though Chalabi was the biggest problem they had in Iraq.

Should be "At times, Powel thought ...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yikes!
I found three others that I edited already. Thanks for pointing it out.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. But you still missed cuntry...
I kinda like it, but I bet females will find it offensive ;)

Thanks for this, I've been waiting for 'those with conscience' to speak. Sounds like Armitage and Powell might be able to.

-Hoot
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. Actually, I thought it was intentional...
LOL-
Just kiddin'
BHN
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. You Never Know Do You?
Armitage, who would have guessed that I may have more in common with a guy who always struck me as a pirate in a suit, than I have with certain members of my party? I hope to God he has been made angry enough that he has spilled the beans to Fitz.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. My guess:
Dick isn't being invited to any White House strategy sessions on how to deal with the Plame scandal right now. Again, that's pure specualtion on my part. I could be wrong.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. another great read
thanks man.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Fair and balanced!
DU gets a surprising number of readers when it comes to the various Plame threads. We can't have it said that we are making a national security crisis into a partisan issue, can we? (grin)
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
57. And this is one of the better ones
(Plame threads, I mean). Educated speculation, and it sounds good to me. I think there are a few people involved, actually - Armitage sounds like a good guess, though. I think also you don't want to screw with the CIA, if you know what's good for you, and this administration's hubris finally caught up with them. I for one couldn't be happier. I don't think this one is going away, precisely because I believe there is more than one person speaking out, and they can't catch them all. DU has been so much more enjoyable lately....
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. It is a fascinating time.
One of the things that is positive is that many mainstream republicans are repulsed by the White House efforts to portray this scandal as something the democrats are responsible for. I think their "coordinated effort" of the past ten days failed miserably.
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Have you listened to the Indira Singh Intvw?
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 09:17 AM by Zorbuddha
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I've read a few
small sections that have been quoted ..... thanks for the links. But, most importantly, tell me what you think of the interview?
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The depth and breadth of our worst fears
are wider and deeper and more dire than we realize. The things she delineates will convince you that she is not blowing smoke when she says this is global, and there are damn few places of sanctuary.

Please listen to the intvw.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. did the conversation reach into Inslaw and Ed Meese?
I will read it but I'm curious.
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. It was more contemporary......audio links to part 1 and 2
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 09:50 AM by Zorbuddha
Stemming from her research into P-tech. The transcript is good, but a bit rough. Listening to her speak the words conveyed many subtle messages. As if the overt message weren't enough. I urge you to listen to it, too.

http://209.81.10.18//data/20050427-Wed1400.mp3
part 1 (her narrative of 9-11, health issues and EPA)


http://209.81.10.18//data/20050720-Wed1400.mp3
part 2 (ptech)

I haven't listened to part 1 yet. I'm going to do that now.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. All I can say is OMG. Thanks for posting these links.
What a brave individual she is. I certainly hope that the truth will unfold - and soon.
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. She certainly has courage. I hope people will take time to listen to this
You are most welcome.

This is white-hot.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Oh, yes
it is global in the most literal sense of the word. It is "the beast" that was spoken of long ago.
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Hearing her speak of death threats from various U.S. Govt agencies
and offices is chilling.

She was late for a meeting in WTC when the planes hit.
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. "Apparatus of Lies"
Yes, the Beast, or its minions. Here is the last bit of the intvw with Singh. Sorry for the oblique angle to your thread, but its all the same tangle.

---

B.F.: And you stayed on in New York City then through 2004?

I.S.: Right. I stayed on in the same apartment. I reached out to friends of mine in the FBI who I asked them what was going on they, I got pretty close with one of them, who understood who was on the counterterrorism team - the northeast, and was part of the A-team, so to speak, and he looked at what I was looking at, I passed a lot of my information through him, and I said, ‘am I crazy? Please tell me that I’m crazy. I’d rather be crazy, than this be true.’ And he said, nope, and it is worse than you think. So, he validated a lot of things. He could not break any rules, and I wouldn’t let him, because he was my friend, but he helped me see and interpret things. So, one of the most powerful things I could have done was to push this through the system and see how the system responded. And it’s the system’s response that indicts them, in the end. Just as the system’s response to the EPA, and the environmental disaster in lower Manhattan indicts them If this were a true terrorist attack, you would have been seeing pictures of our lungs all over national TV for years to come. Metaphorically, that sort of thing. You never saw what it was really like. So, basically, after I got thrown out of JP Morgan, my attitude was as soon as everyone knows, what Ptech really is and they understand that it was for real, all will be forgiven and I will be back in business. And, umm, that sure didn’t happen. And I’m not sure, even, at this stage whether I want to be involved with anything to do with corporate America or the government, because, look at what’s happening. I’m looking at the people that are being put in place, like Negroponte, Director of Intel, and I’m hearing the inside response to that. I know where he comes from and what his pedigree is politically, and one by one, we’re seeing the handwriting on the wall. And most people are looking for exit strategies, you might say leave the country, go to France, go to Canada, but there are no exit strategies for this. All of this stuff took money to fund. And it was funded through major financial crimes, money laundering and looting. Call it looting, looting of the S&Ls, looting of the banking system, and what, what we’re in the middle of now, which is the looting of Social Security. And this is all being done sys…the looting of HUD, it’s all being done systematically to keep the slush funds up for the game at play.

B.F.: Where do you think this is headed?

I.S.: Not any place good for people. And, it isn’t just going to be America, it’s going to be global.

B.F.: Well, Indira Singh, thank you very much.

I..S.: Thank you, Bonnie.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. I always look forward to your posts, Water Man.
You have a way of making things so much easier to understand. Thank you.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Well thank you!
I would like to think that the little essays I put on DU are of some value. When people like you say things like this (and when rational people disagree, and make valid points) I really do appreciate it.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great read, Waterman!
True, Armitage is no prize but he's not a neocon.

I'm growing weary of this scenario: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. But it's like the old saw about the crooked poker game. You know it's crooked but it's the only one in town.

Until we can recapture either the Senate, the House or the Presidency, this is about as good as we can do.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. "But you and I know
that this world will not have any real victors and that, once it is over, we shall still have to go on living together forever on the same soil." -- Albert Camus

While we take the actions necessary to re-take the House, Senate, and the Presidency .... and to put rational men and women on the federal courts .... we can still read Albert Camus. (grin)
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PurgedVoter Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. Fund Waterman
Any big money progressives lurking out there? I beg you to fund Waterman. Give him the ability to hire a research staff. He is a one man think tank extraordinaire. Waterman, you are too valuable to loose, stay away from small planes, please.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I have to laugh ....
Years ago, when I was always busy working for Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman, he would crack me up by saying, "Why don't they have enough respect to at least try to 'buy' us?" Your post reminded me of that -- and for that, I thank you!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. If you're ever down my way (Md.)...
I'll spring for some beers and smoke a roast just to sit and talk for a few hours.

-Hoot
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Sounds good.
Thanks.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wow - Great synopsis
:thumbsup:

It's fascinating, too, watching Armitage get to the point where all he wanted to do is tell them to fuck off...

I feel the same way.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. It must surprise them
to have Armitage get in their face.

Often, though not always, people who have known the hell of war are less inclined to want to introduce others to the experience. And them can get really angry when they see young soldiers being sent for a fucking lie. And no serious person, democrat, republican, whatever, can pretend that we invaded Iraq based upon anything but lies.

And then they see the military not providing our soldiers with adequate protections. Or giving them the correct supportive services when they are injured. Or paying their families' proper respect when those soldiers are killed.

I have a wide range of friends and associates, including a lot of veterans, many who are registered republicans. And, to an individual, they resent what this administration is doing. (Of course, there are many who agree with the war. It's not one-sided.)

But I think Dick Armitage talks for a large group of people when he speaks.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Question # 1
From the newspapers and mags etc., what is going around is that Powell carried the files on AF1 where seemingly everyone had a peek at it. The story goes that after seeing it Ari F., then called Rove. I'm assuming that the point of this being put about is that they all want to say Powell told them. Now if Ari didn't have clearance I don't think Powell would show him the document, surely his integrity hasn't been shredded that much. Part 2 of this question is: even if someone was allowed access to a document he wasn't supposed to see it doesn't absolve him from the responsibility of keeping the info secret does it? And if AF told Rove, doesn't that make him culpable and if then when Rove repeated it that compounds it doesn't it? Who sent the document to Powell? Bolton?

Ok, one big, multi part question.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I don't like calling the report
that was faxed to Powell while he was on AF1 a "file." I may be odd. I also don't care for the business about Powell "carrying" it on board. There is misinformation being presented here, and the goal is a White House fall-back strategy to focus blame on Powell. But let me quote from "The Rove Problem," by Nancy Gibbs, in the 7-25-05 TIME, (pages 26-7):

"...Fitgerald has shown particular interest, legal sources told Time, in a classified State Department memo that was forwarded to the White House the day after Wilson's article appeared. It was marked for delivery to then Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was traveling with the President to Africa that day. The memo, originally dated June 10, 2003, identified Plame and discussed her role in recommending her husband for the mission to Niger. It had been written by the State Department's bureau of intelligence and research at the request of former Under Secretary Marc Grossman after the New York Times and Washington Post began reporting on an intelligence-gathering trip to Niger by a former U.S. diplomat, without naming Wilson. Sending it to Powell 'was directly in response to Wilson going public,' says a senior Republican Hill aide ....

"Fitzgerald has shown at least part of the memo to some of the subjects of the investigation with the appropriate security clearance, asking if they had ever seen it before. The prosecutor believes that the memo circulated among officials aboard Air Force One.... Some traveling reporters to Africa were told on background that Wilson was sent to Niger by a low-level staff member at the CIA. At one point, White House officials on the trip were saying, 'Look who sent him,' as if to spur reporters to dig deeper.

"According to sources close to the investigation, Fitzgerald seemed most interested in whether officials who stayed at the White House while the President was in Africa also had the memo that week, when the first known calls to reporters took place. Details of the memo, if not the memo itself, may have been shared with one or more White House officials well before Wilson's article appeared."
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Answer: Part Two
Now, we quickly switch from Time to Newsweek. We go to the article "Rove At War," by Howard Fineman, and flip to pages 30-31.

(It is hard not to be distracted by the cuddily photo of Rove, wearing hilarious fake Ross Perot ears, reaching to huge his friend George. I'm sure that Karl would make Dave Chappelle blush, with his wicked sense of humor. Yet we must not get distracted.)

We find that after Wilson went public, none other than Karl Rove took over. Let's look closer:

"How do you publicly counter a guy like that? As 'senior adviser,' Rove would be involved in finding out. Technically, Rove was in charge of politics, not 'communications.' But, as he saw it, the two were one and the same - and he used his heavyweight status to push the message machine run by his Texas protege and friend, Dan Bartlet. Press Secretary Ari Fleischer was sent out to trash the Wilson op-ed. 'Zero, nada, nothing new here,' he said. Then, on a long Bush trip to Africa, Fleischer and Bartlett prompted clusters of reporters to look into the bureaucratic orgins of the Wilson trip. How did the spin doctors know to cast that lure? One possible explanation: some aides may have read the State Department intel memo, which Powell had brought with him aboard Air Force One.

"Meanwhile, in transatlantic secure phone calls, the message machinery focused on a crucial topic: wh should carry the freight on the folowing Sunday's talk shows? The message: protect Cheney by explaining that he had nothing to do with sending Wilson to Niger,and dismiss the yellowcake issue. Powell was ruled out. He wasn't a team player, as he had proved by his dismissive comments about the 'sixteen words.'"
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. Questions Abound...
How did Fleischer & Bartlett see the memo? As I can't believe they have that level of clearance wasn't telling them (whoever did) a breach of national security? And when they repeated it (Fleischer to Rove) weren't they also breaching that same security? Aren't they also culpable under the law.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. The Fix Was In Right From The Beginning?
After reading all the information about Powell and Armitage on this and the previous thread, I have come up with a small theory regarding Powell, and that theory is that right from the first “work-up” meeting about Wilson, I believe it is possible that they decided, then, to use Powell as the fall guy. These are people who plan and scheme manically so I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility. Just consider the time-line that I’ve put together:

March 8, 2003 - Joe Wilson appears on CNN regarding Wh claims regarding wmds (work-up meeting occurs a few day after)

June 10, 2003 - Memo written

July 6, 2003 - Wilson column is printed

July 7, 2003 – Memo sent to Powell on Africa trip

July 8, 2003 - Novak & Rove speak

July 11, 2003 – Cooper & Rove speak

July 14, 2003 - Novak Column

The fact that the memo was written before Wilson’s column appeared leads one to ask, did they know in advance he was writing it, were forewarned? Or after the March 8th appearance did they decide then and there he was trouble and and decided to put a strategy in place?

The memo which was eventually sent to Powell was written nearly a month before it reached him on AF1, even before Wilson’s column appeared, was ready and waiting to be sent to Powell the day after the column appeared. They couldn’t have sent it to him earlier, or were they setting the scene to make him responsible for what they were about to put in play? The day after Powell gets the memo, the conversation with Novak takes place.

They had a plan that would take out 2 birds with one stone, but what Rove might not have known at the time, was that his "managing the matter" in such a way, was illegal.



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. These are indeed
the most foul human beings .... they are without conscience, or what religious folk would call "goodness." And they are capable of the lowest of human behaviors. Indeed, this series of events is the proof in the pudding.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. kick n/t
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
76. Seems plausible to me. Twofer.
Something still bothers me about the way this is being covered. Suppose you are Rove (yuck!) and you decide Wilson needs to be Newtered. And a workup is made to look for angles. How do you get to the part where someone in the CIA helpfully volunteers that Wilson's wife is an undercover CIA agent involved in WMDs? If Marc Grossman compiled the AF1 document, how did he get that information included?

It doesn't seem to make sense. Larry Johnson was saying he went to spook school with Valeria and only knew her as Valeria P. because such information was NEVER bandied about. It was strictly need to know. So, no one outside the CIA should have known to even ask the question.

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
22. Good reading.
Funny though, I always had the impression, from his appearances at hearings, that Armitage was not just a regular member of the club. He always appeared to be struggling to maintain his integrity. I am guessing that he stays with hope of trying to improve things from within.

When this administration falls, he will be a valuable witness.

--IMM
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. I remember a year ago
on the Plame threads, when people were guessing who would be the first to leave the administration if it did survive the election, a number of people were saying Powell. I said Armitage was going to beat him to it.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. But isn't he still there?
--IMM
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Condi Rice and Robert Zoellick
replaced Colin Powell and Richard Armitage.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I didn't know.
Has Armitage left the government?

--IMM
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. My guess
and it's only a guess, is that the next administration will likely look to him for his views on SE Asia.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #22
64. Didn't Armitage quit at the same time Powell quit? I don't think he did
stay.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. excellent history lesson
up to this point my understanding of that situation consisted mainly of various disconnected drips and drabs.

thanks
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Zorbuddha Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I agree
Helps pull it all together.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. one reason why I always bookmark
H20 Man's threads :-)
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
32. One of the first signs of what this administration was about, was the
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 11:50 AM by Burried News
rolling of the State Department. It was marginalized to the point of embarassment. Powell and Armitage are faces I can visualize and sympathize with. But in quiete moments I visualize the hundreds of thousands of fine civil servants in Washington who have been just about destroyed by this cabal. (Vulcans, some of them call themselves as if they were a separate more advanced species destined to rule.) Vulcans? No. Devils? Yes.
GET READY FOR THE HEAT BOYZ - THINK YOU CAN ADAPT TO IT?
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Piss on them and raise the humidity water man.
Perle - you think we've forgotten you. Don't touch your toes - because when we say ramming speed we aren't picturing Triremes.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
37. I posted this on another thread, but it supports what you're saying.
Powell Aide Says Armitage, Bolton Clashed
Apparent Supporter of U.N. Nominee Said to Have Questioned His Diplomatic Tone

By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 10, 2005; Page A02

Former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage, who last week appeared to endorse John R. Bolton's nomination as U.N. ambassador, had frequent battles with Bolton over his diplomatic tone, a top aide to former secretary of state Colin L. Powell said in an interview released yesterday by Senate investigators.

Larry Wilkerson, Powell's chief of staff, said Armitage was furious about a provocative speech Bolton gave on North Korea in July 2003, though the State Department noted that Armitage's office had approved it. Armitage also ordered the delay of congressional testimony Bolton planned on Syria's weapons programs at the time, he added.

In an interview Friday with Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff, Wilkerson said he was "somewhat" surprised by Armitage's statement last week about Bolton "because I worked with Rich closely" at the State Department. His testimony adds to a portrait of frequent policy conflicts between the strong-willed Bolton, the undersecretary for arms control, and his bureaucratic rivals in the foreign policy and intelligence fields.

more...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/09/AR2005050901155.html

It seems like Armitage pays public lip service to look good to the neo-cons and put Bush at ease, but behaves quite differently behind the scenes. If I were to guess who informed the grand jury about the existence of the memo on Air Force One, I used to think Tenet or Pavitt. Now I'm leaning toward Powell or Armitage.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Hey, RP!
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 01:41 PM by H2O Man
I had just said to another DUer that I was wondering if you had taken off for the weekend. I had put up a thread yesterday (Mayberry Machiavellis: Will Otis Rove Go To Jail?) that I thought you in particlar would enjoy.

* on edit: Also, of course, Armitage knows that the Senate wants some documents related to Bolton. Sometimes saying you back a guy may imply that you enjoy helping back him into a corner.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Thanks! I'll be sure to read that thread.
Yes, I did take the weekend off. I was worried I might miss something good, but I did read about the possibility of perjury and obstruction of justice. Of course, we all know that's just the tip of the iceberg where the REAL crimes are concerned.

Armitage "backing" Bolton? :rofl: Just like backing democracy in Iraq, I suppose.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. I just
brought the other thread up. I think we've been putting a good series together here.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
42. Armitage was seriously pissed off.
Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 01:56 PM by Just Me
He's been through enough that the corporacultists' intimidation tactics could not and will not work. I'll bet there's a lot more underground coordination than we can possibly imagine. In a time of tyranny over America, I take comfort from ALL those who still fight on her behalf.

Thank you, again, for a wonderfully poignant summary. You're the best!!!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
47. I LOVE reading your posts H2OMan!
Always great-
I think you should compile them all and publish!
I'd buy it in a heart beat.
You could use the profit to set up
that "get in touch with nature" program for young people.
BHN
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Thanks!
We have put together a heck of a collection of information on these "Plame Threads." The core group has worked on it for over a year, which is kind of impressive in itself. The quality of work is most impressive.
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spuddonna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
51. Wow! Excellent!
Great analysis... Thanks! :)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. Thanks. n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
54. Harry Reid's Plame Clock
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. More interesting news .....
I live near the (small) city of Norwich, NY. Norwich is the Chenango County seat. It has a daily newspapoer, The Evening Sun. The paper now has an on-line addition. See: www.evesun.com

This is about as conservative and republican of a small-town paper as there is. At the time of the 2000 election, they refused to print a short interview that I did with Robert Kennedy, Jr, although he spoke well of a local republican candidate for state office. The interview was "too liberal" for their readership.

Today, their editorial was a "guest column" by Gene Lyons, through the United Media Syndicate. Lyons is a columnist for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, a national magazine award winner and co-author of "The Hunting of the President" (St. Martin's Press; 2000)

His column nailed the administration and "GOP robo-pundits" to the wall. It is a great editorial. I hope people can access it through the paper's web site.

Gene Lyons can be reached at: genelyons@sbcglobal.net I am not opposed to people e-mailing him some of the Plame essays from DU.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
58. Kick n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Today's Doonesbury
is about the inability of the White House to get traction on any other issue .... Plame is "24-7."
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
62. I tried to recommend this thread but it is too late.
:kick:

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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
63. You are right. You have hit the nail on the head.
I didn't know anything about Armitage, but I got the impression from the 9/11 hearings that he was thoroughly disgusted with the neocons. Later, I wondered why I had thought that, and decided I must have been mistaken. But now I guess I saw exactly what I thought I saw.

He's an honest man. There are honest Republicans, although if they are really honest, they're disgusted with these guys. Old-fashioned conservatives. People who are careful. Now they are anomalies.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. There are some
republicans that DUers might not want to hang out with, but that we can live in the same community as, and not have to worry about the assault on our way of life that the neocons pose.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
65. kick for a great read! I love that someone will help me with all
the reading I should be doing but have no time. I've thought about doing book reports on what I've read (Plot against social security has lots of great facts)
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
66. Great post and thread as always H20 Man, but I have a question.
Why has Bob Woodward been given such open access to Bush? Given that many DU'ers feel that he's a Bush man and works for the CIA why does he always reveal such interesting tidbits of information.

There are times when I've seen him in a TV appearance and I think that he's working behind the scenes to get information out, because he does NOT agree with what's been going on with the NeoCon/Bushistas. Other times I find he plays both sides against the middle and there's a strange quality about him that he's not to be trusted.

Why is it that so much of what he's written has helped unravel some of the threads of the Bush Evil Deeds for reporters now re-examining the events before and after 9/11, the lead up to the invasion, etc. If he's been doing the Bush opposition favors why then has he had so much access to Bush? Wouldn't he have been kept out of the WH by Rove?

That's the puzzle for me. Who is Bob Wooward? And, I've read everything about him including the reports that Woodward and Bernstein were not the Watergate hero's they were protrayed. Murry Waas had some interesting links about this on his website recently.

Is Woodward merely a facilitator? Did the WH think they could use him? Why would they talk to him and no one else? Woodward's description of Bush when asked how he would like to be viewed in history where Bush replied "We will all be dead" was the most startling comment. I saw Woodward repeat in many times in the promo for his book, and every time he repeated it he seemed amazed that Bush said it. I would have thought that the Bushistas would have not given him any more interviews after that and gone on the attack. But, they didn't. It's very odd. :shrug: Do you have any thoughts about him and his role in all this?

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I think Bob
Woodward's #1 priority remains serving as a naval officer, as he did until he became a "reporter." I note that Mark Felt was also a naval officer.

If we removed the names, including Woodward, Felt, Nixon, etc, and just looked at the situation, one would probably conclude that he never left ONI, and that Felt was his handler. Even in Woodward's curious book, "The Secret Man," where he goes on and on about Felt having lived under a specific cover for so long that it became his reality, I think it is clear that Woodward is describing himself.

Armitage is also an old navy man. That may explain some of the playing both sides off the middle that you are absolutely correct about. It is strange that all three of these guys (Woodward, Felt & Armitage) have some similar characteristics: each of the three is a conservative republican that has a firmly held belief in "law & order"; each has shown a willingness to justify their own actions when they have strayed outside the law they believe so strongly in; and each is somehow almost "noble" in the sense that they are opposed to an administration's going too far beyond the law. And one other thing: each one plays for keeps.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
69. Kick w/ NEW ARMITAGE INFO FROM LATEST WP STORY
In all the threads I'm seeing on this story it seems not many are catching the BIG revelation. It's the last paragraph:

--snip--

"People familiar with this part of the probe provided new details about the memo, including that it was then-Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage who requested it the day Wilson went public and asked that a copy be sent to then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell to take with him on a trip to Africa the next day. Bush and several top aides were on that trip. Carl W. Ford Jr., who was director of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the time and who supervised the original production of the memo, has appeared before the grand jury, a former State Department official said."

--snip--

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/26/AR2005072602069.html
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Sometimes
I think DU is 36 hours ahead of the "news." You are correct -- it is very significant .... and the general public would not have a clue why. Thanks for adding that here!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Also That Apparently Carl Ford Jr. Was Involved In It's Production
Edited on Wed Jul-27-05 01:19 PM by Beetwasher
Another interesting tid bit and piece of the puzzle, whether it's true or not.

Actually, it seems this paragraph contains TWO unidentified sources. The first one reveals that Armitage requested the memo (this could be Luskin, I think), the second one is a State Dept. source who reveals Ford supervised production of the memo. What does it mean? Ford testified to the GJ, I wonder what he told them...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. I think that
Fitzgerald has pretty strong evidence that the people in question were discussing this, including with people who they had no business talking to, before the memo was faxed to Powell on AF1.

I'm expecting the name "Newt Gingrich" to hit the fan this week.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Newt??? Really?
Can you explain?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Page 452
of Wilson's book identifies Newt as being in the 3-8-03 meeting in VP Cheney's office, which was the original meeting where a goal was set to be prepared to destroy Wilson. Our patriotic friend Newt is mentioned on seven other pages of Wilson's book. I am confident that, despite the efforts of some of our beast fiends in the White House, the American public will soon find out that this scandal is bigger than they are letting on.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
72.  Why Is It So Important?
Perhaps it would be beneficial if you spelled out all the implications.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. The Implications Depend Upon Whether Or Not This Info Is True Or Not
Edited on Wed Jul-27-05 01:36 PM by Beetwasher
First of all, it's new information, we haven't heard this before.

If it's true and Armitage requested the memo for Powell, it could mean Armitage knew about the leak and wanted to make sure Powell knew OR possibly he was baiting the admin. to DO something w/ the info :shrug: There might some others, maybe H2O Man could chime in w/ some theories.

If it's NOT true, it would mean Bushco. is trying to pin blame on Armitage. If the source for this info is Luskin (which I suspect), then is probably the more likely scenario (though the info still could be true, but NOT the spin of the INTENT of the request for the memo)

Either way it means or seems Armitage is in deep on this and NOT working on Bushco's team but rather they are working against eachothers interest, I think. Armitage could be a powerful enemy agaisnt Bushco. in this.

It's also significant because you can be pretty damn sure that Armitage probably testified and he would probably be a witness FOR the prosecution and a POWERFUL witness at that, one who would know much about this.

The fact that Ford supposedly supervised the production of THE memo AND testified is also very significant (AND ALSO IMPORTANT NEW INFORMATION, possibly more important than the Armitage info). If this is true, Ford would be in a position to know where the info on Plame came from and who got the memo. Ford's allegiances are not clear to me, though I think I've seen indications he would be in the Armitage camp. H2O Man, any more insight?

It also seems there are two sources here, one (possibly Luskin) w/ the Armitage info that would seem on it's surface to IMPLICATE Armitage, and the other from the State Dept. who reveals the Ford supervised production of the memo, and this on the surface would seem to implicate Ford. But, these initial implications can be deceiving, especially if Ford and Armitage are at odds w/ Bushco.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. From the Sunday NYT
(page 20-A) story by Scott Shane, we read "Aboard the president's plane was a copy of a State Department memorandum on the Wilson matter faxed in-flight to Colin Powell, then the secretary of state."

Now, let's think: When was the memo authored? By whom? Why hadn't Colin seen it before? If it wasn't written to be shared with Colin, what was its purpose? Who had seen it before? Why?

Did Armitage get ahold of it, and think, "Better get this to my friend QUICK, before he gets set-up?" Put it in the context of Colin calling him, on a Saturday night in early February, to say he had just come back from CIA HQ, and needed Dick to accompany him there the next day.

Further, examine the time line: When the president's group was in Africa, three men (Rove, Libby, and Hadley) were writing the paper for Tenet, in which he took the blame for the "16 words." Think: Hadley had taken a phone call and two memos from Tenet, as he soon was forced to admit, which blew those 16 words clear out of the water. More, both Rove and Libby took time to talk to reporters about Wilson and his wife. That simply doesn't fit the White House story about who told who and when.

Does it make sense looking at it this way?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
79. Always kinda liked Armitage when he was interviewed
He appeared to be chocking back bile when forced to PNACSpeak for the administration.

I'll take a RW geo-political realist over a neo-con any day of the week.
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
80. This was an education, h2o, RP, and you who're off my screen dur'g "reply"
wow, inside view from outsiders. are you guys really outsiders? this is good in any event! real good. John Dean's "blind ambition" reads in like detail.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
81. Armitage and Powell Doctrine being destroyed knew better
Edited on Wed Jul-27-05 06:13 PM by EVDebs
Armitage knows that the Powell Doctrine, when applied, resulted in positives for the US. BushCo's destruction of the Powell Doctrine means more diplomatic errors and waste in the military.

"Essentially, the (Powell) Doctrine expresses that military action should be used only as a last resort and only if there is a clear risk to national security by the intended target; the force, when used, should be overwhelming and disproportionate to the force used by the enemy; there must be strong support for the campaign by the general public; and there must be a clear exit strategy from the conflict in which the military is engaged."

www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/teachers/lessonplans/iraq/powelldoctrine_short.html

Bush's Iraq adventure/occupation required that the Powell Doctrine be shit-canned.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Good point.
Bush and his friends, who have no military experience and virtually no claim to insight on warfare, ignored the reasoned approach of men who had the insight that experience gives. The image of that giddy clown prancing about the aircraft carrier, wearing a uniform in the most undignified of displays, says it all.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
83. Very good,
thank you H20 Man.
Excellent as always.
Hiley
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