Do any of the descendants of French people in this nation

[Skidmore]

ever take issue with the characterization of the French people as an enemy? Cajuns, anyone out there, tired of this?

[Siyahamba]

1. Reminds me of this:

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/030504_french.html

[geek tragedy]

2. I have French ancestry, but object to the France-bashing as purely idiotic

Not to say that France is above criticism--it isn't--or that its foreign policy goals frequently don'tmake it a rival as well as an ally of the US--they do.

But, the venom directed at French culture and its people is pathetic.

[katmondoo]

7. Most people forget without the French we would not have won the

Revolutionary War. I am of French decent and I still get mad when I see an anti French slogan.

[jhawk_tim]

16. Yes, however

without us France would still be the property of Germany - twice. So we have repaid the Revolutionary War debt.

[supernova]

19. It's no reason to treat our brothers in arms like dirt

Our assholery about the Iraq war has been an international disgrace.

[jhawk_tim]

22. And I didn't say it was a reason to treat our brothers in arms like dirt

I am just tired of hearing the "we owe them for the Revolutionary War" argument. There are many reasons to repair relationships with our allies but 200+ year old ones are getting stale.

[supernova]

26. Actually, that one isn't stale

We would still be part of the UK without France. Or perhaps only recently liberated in the last century, like India.

Think about it: 200 more years of colonization? Remember, they tried again to get us back again in the War of 1812. Our history would be very different without France.

Meanwhile, notice that France and Germany have been right about the Iraq Invasion all along.

France has been a separate country for 1000 years now. 200 years of colonization against maybe the Cold War's worth of occupation by a fascist regime. Sorry, we come out on the bad end of that comparison still.

[XemaSab]

33. that's a ridiculous argument

and I can't imagine anyone would seriously use it as a justification for maintaining our alliance with France.

The real reason I see for maintaining a close alliance with France is the same reason I see for maintaining an alliance with anyone: we fought alongside them in the last 2 major wars in the cause of freedom.

They're a democracy, we're a democracy. We've had common enemies and in some ways share a very similar culture (not totally similar, but certainly more similar than say, Iran and Japan).

I'd rather stand and fight alongside France who has a proven track record of *really* sharing our ideals than fight alongside a country like Uzbekistan, who doesn't seem to share our values and ideals and who in fact seems to support things that are anathema to the cause of liberty.

[Carni]

36. Arguing with freeptards over freedom fries mentality is what's stale

There were no weapons of mass destruction -- the French were right about that weren't they?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

21. Actually, we came late to both wars.

The Soviets kept the Germans busy on the Eastern front and thus depleted German troops and resources. This had quite a bit to do with the American victory. By the time the Americans came to the party, they were facing a much weakened German Army.

[lastliberalintexas]

24. The Russians really defeated the Axis powers

The number of bodies Stalin was willing to throw at Hitler's war machine was astonishing. But for that and Hitler's decision to emulate Napoleon and create his own Waterloo, who knows what might have happened? US entry into the war alone certainly hadn't turned the tide.

And the superiority of the British service and the number of bodies the French threw at the Axis powers of WWI were far more important to that war effort than the mere months in which the US was involved. The line "France needs men" from An Affair to Remember wasn't merely the ribbing of a father of 7 girls.

Not that the US efforts were unnecessary or unappreciated. But it really irks me when people like that poster act as if we were the Great Savior of the World, when we had to be dragged kicking and screaming into both wars.

:hi: Kathy

[supernova]

28. If you read Hedrick Smith's The Russians

When he's talking to Russians about how they suffered during WWII, one person actually said "niggerdly" about our sacrifices in comparison.

20 million in the Soviet Union died during the war.

[lastliberalintexas]

34. I had a very good history teacher in middle school

If she hasn't retired, she's probably been run out of the system by now. She actually presented the entire picture of history, not just the Go USA portions. She was also the first person I'd ever heard make such glowing remarks about the Russians, and this was in the early 1980s in Reagan America, so you know how well received most of her comments were by many in the class.

I've not read The Russians, but I'll have to check it out. Thanks. :)

[jhawk_tim]

29. I didn't say we were the world's savior

And France didn't hand us our independence in the RW. I'm just saying that the "payback" argument is old. If something that happened 200+ years ago is the only reason we have to make ammends with France, then we need to rethink our position. I personally think there are better, more current reasons.

[lastliberalintexas]

30. And continuing to say that 200 years is ancient history

also shows one reason why we are in the state we are in- we have no concept of the history of the world. That 200 years is very *recent* history given the length of time for which most European and Asian countries have existed, mostly in their present forms with only a few boundary changes here and there (mostly after defeat in wars).

Some people have referred to the US as the teenager of the first world countries, but they are wrong- we're still toddlers compared to the others.

No one has said that their aid in the Revolutionary War (or even War of 1812 for that matter) is the only reason to heal relations with France, so I'm not sure where you're getting that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. The French got rid of the Germans in the 1870s without our help.

And if not for our enabling of the German armaments industry, they might have had no problem with them in either 1914 or 1939. The Germans have never successfully occupied France for more than a few years, over 1500 years of history.

Not to mention (though I am compelled to do so anyway) that the only reason France needed help in 1939 was that just 20 years earlier they lost more people in a single war than the US has lost in all its wars combined.

We lost a mere 50,000 in Vietnam, and it changed the political landscape for 20 years. They lost millions in the most brutal war ever fought, and yes, man for man, unit for unit, WWI was the single most brutal war since the Mongol invasion -- WWII was worse only because it included the wholesale slaughter of millions of civilians. Would you expect no social repercussions?

The French did far more for us than save our butts in the Revolution. French philosophers gave us the founding principles of our republic - the concept of the separation of church and state, the rights of man, a vision of a world free of monarchy, which can today be translated into freedom from autocracy, whether it be familial or corporate.

If you like such pat answers, maybe you are posting on the wrong board.

[nookiemonster]

41. Yeah, that Lafayette guy was a real douchebag, Wasn't he?

:sarcasm:

[yukie]

31. French multiculturalism

French criticism is unfounded. I especially like the Chirac policy of forbidding headscarfs or other religious articles (of design or clothing) to be worn by school students. That was sooo even-handed and appropriate to ensure that all are dealt with equitably.

[getmeouttahere]

All the time, but just like the French....

I don't give a damn what they think, with their ineffectual boycotts of all things French, like they were buying French products to begin with!

BTW, my ancestry is French-Canadian

[WearyOne]

10. surely the morons are quaffing Veuve Clicquot every night !

[Carni]

11. So is mine on one side of the family

And the characterizations of the French do piss me off a little bit. I also have Native American on that side of the family and I am amazed at the bullshit still being spouted about that segment of our population.

[bigluckyfeet]

18. This Cajun is Sure Tired It

This was done because France would not kiss the chimps ass.

[bryant69]

3. THere was a great Doonesbury on this subject

Completely in French - very funny.

My anscestery is French on one side so I do get annoyed at it - but I suspect for most people descended from French people, they aren't used to thinking of them selves as any thing but American, so they don't personalize it the same way - recent immigrants do, I'm sure, but those who've been here for several generations probably don't.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[sam sarrha]

4. non french people are sick of that crap.. Bu$h is a wet brain alcoholic,

click on the link at the bottom of this page.. van Wormer is world class expert on alcoholism

[xchrom]

5. lol -- ain't it the truth!

[fudge stripe cookays]

6. Yes indeed.

I had a cousin (from a different branch) send me a picture of Hitler standing in front of the Eiffel Tower, lambasting the French about 2 years ago (not long after the war started).

She hates Bush, but was doing the whole "Support our troops" thing because her husband is a vet. Gradually I've come to educate her a bit more.

We got into a tiff because I pointed out that I had quite a bit of French blood, and I'd appreciate it if she didn't send me any more of that crap. She was pissed. But we worked it out.

She hates Bush even more now. And does NOT want the soldiers over there. And doesn't give a damn what the French do anymore.

FSC

[ChiciB1]

8. I Have NO Problem With The French...

And someday I would LOVE to visit there, that is AFTER I learn to speak the language. There is a family who lives across the street from me and I've been told that they have been treated with a lot of contempt. Because of the propaganda spewed by "the corrupt ones" I think Americans are actually hurting themselves by continued condemnation.

I WAS told that I should NOT go to France anytime soon, but then how many countries CAN you go to and be a welcome visitor??

[YOY]

9. American Francophobia has been going on for quite some time

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that "France is mostly populated by prostitutes."???

It is not a new trend...sadly.

I too, have no problem with the French.

[tmooses]

12. I'll leave the French bashing to those with the "insight" of someone like

Bill O'Reilly or Hannity. I am of French ancestry and think this is
one of aspects of the lead up to this war which I find most disgusting.
The phony patriotism, the use as the French as a target to drum up their marketing of this war and the media joining the bandwagon-all
smacks of xenophobia.

[existentialist]

13. Yes.

My ancestry is (in small part) French too, but I don't take offense because of that so much as I take offense because no people or nation should be subject to such shallow, petty, attacks because they have the audacity to disagree on a point of debate, and, worse from the stand point of the Bush Administration, to have the gall to be proved correct!

[getmeouttahere]

15. BushCo hates them for their brains!

[lilymidnite]

14. Yes.

My last name is clearly French, and it bugs the hell out of me to see the French ridiculed.

E.N.

[gollygee]

17. I'm of French descent

my brother, who has a VERY French name, was among the Freepers making unfair characterizations of the French. :shrug: I asked him if he figures it's genetic.

[getmeouttahere]

20. Good one, gollygee

always nice to throw it back in their faces...and listen for the chirping of the crickets as their kool-aid addled brains try to figure it all out

[lateo]

23. I take great offense with it but...

there isn't much I can do about it. My family came here from France when it was still the 13 colonies. We had our own regiment in the Revolutionary War...and since we have a long history of military service for America.

So much for rifle dropping...

[Alcibiades]

25. Huguenots

...on my mother's side arrived here in the late 17th Century. Fleeing religious persecution, a hundred years later their descendants fought for this country's independence from Great Britain. And now G. W. Bush and co. are attempting to change this country into a right-wing theocracy, similar to the oppressive absolutism in France my ancestors fled so long ago.

Right-wing Francophobia goes hand-in-hand with their charges of elitism, as loving things that are French would make one decadent, elitist and anti-American all at once. This is why Democrats are depicted as drinking French wine, speaking French, enjoying French culture, etc. The real irony is that it is actually rich Republicans who are sipping French wine and vacationing in France.

[immoderate]

32. Bon, d'accord!

I'm not French, but I spent some time in Paris as a student. It's the crossroads of the world.

In many ways France represents the center of the Enlightenment. In modern thought, philosophy, etiquette, the arts, France was a leader. It goes against the strong undercurrent of anti-intellectualism in America. So they are ripe for ridicule and Twain was a leader, although I think he did it with affection that is lost today.

I resent the French bashing because it makes us look stupid.

--IMM

[livinginphotographs]

35. My last name is French.

I've had a lot of smart-ass comments made, but I guess people have learned to watch that shit around me.

After 9/11, when the freedom fries crap started, it bothered me (not because I was offended, but because I thought it was incredibly stupid), but I figured at least I'm not Middle Eastern. They probably had it a hell of a lot worse.

[Chicago Democrat]

37. I buy more French and German and Russian and Chinese goods

Hurrah for the coalition of the non-willing!

[GumboYaYa]

38. One reason we have Mary Landrieu in the Senate

is the fact that many of the South LA. French descendants do not appreciate the demonization of the French.

[SmokingJacket]

39. The French use paper ballots.

They are way ahead of us as far as that goes.

[applegrove]

40. They were just scapgoats. They took some heat. Of course they

had to be attacked for who they are - not their public actions. Because GHW Bush was just as cozy with Saddam as they were.