Why are some Kucinich supporters so abrasive?

[Uzybone]

Some seem to be decent folk who genuinely support thier good candidate. Others seem hell bent on running everyone else into the gutter and thinking their man will come out squeaky clean. I think they do his cause a disservice with thier ridiculous lies and attacks. Lay out his message and yes by all means compare and contrast him to the others, but why lie and dissemble? Reminds me a lot of the tactics used by (I dare not say his name) and his suicidal supporters in 2000. Look where that shit got us.



edited to change many to some and vile to abrasive....it was too strong a word to use. Sorry.

[thebigidea]

1. as opposed to your non-gutter posts of light, magic, and wonder

[Uzybone]

3. nice reply

I appreciate it. :eyes:

[thebigidea]

7. surely you see the uh, discrepency here

you're calling Kucinich supporters vile, comparing them to Greens, and then wondering why THEY are being harsh.

[JohnKleeb]

11. you know whats interesting

I am not a green and I did support Gore. We arent that harsh actually, we may have kind of quick fuses because we have it shoved down our throats by some that hes unelectable, because hes "ugly", short, and has an ethnic name. I have a quick fuse I admit too I dont show it though, I dont like fighting.

[eileen_d]

2. Good lord! "Vile?"

I'm looking forward to the reasonable discussion that follows this post... lol

[Pepperbelly]

4. flame troll bait ...

not good.

[JohnKleeb]

5. What are you talking about?

Most are decent people. Where is this evidence of vile Kucinich supporters, its insulting to me that you think that because these people are good people for the most part. We use facts to support his message mostly. I dont understand where you are going with this.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnKleeb]

16. yep thanks for the support

I like to think we overall are fair. Well we have greens in our campaign, we are for the most part willing to support the eventual dem nominee. Its interesting.

[_NorCal_D_]

29. LOL, but Kerry

supporters do look French!

(Just kidding)

[XanaDUer]

31. As a celt, I take that as a compliment.

:)

[JohnKleeb]

34. wouldnt that make you look irish

Youre Irish? I am part and so is Dennis and Kerry lol. My first two choices are Irish, well Kucinich isnt known for his Irishness.

[XanaDUer]

45. The Gauls (French) and the Gaels (Celts) are pretty much the same

people.

DK is a little cutie, too! I love left-leaning smart guys. Edwards looked good, and is very good at summing up his position well within the alloted time frames in debates. He also has the ability to take complex issues and report the heart of those issues quickly, well, and succinctly. Many of the reporters' questions did not lend themselves to a yes or no answer. Good debate, glad I got to see it.

I think he did well at the debate. He looked rested, too.

[thebigidea]

72. I'm surprised my post was deleted, and yet the original stands

It was a joke. I don't really think Kerry supporters look French or Clark supporters are drones. I was riffing off the "vile" thing...

[Padraig18]

6. Every candidate has supporters like that

They are called 'idiots', 'flame baiters' or 'trolls', depending on your personal prefernce. :P

[JohnKleeb]

9. yeah everyone has them, I admit we have at least one

I dont know why people have been attacking Kucinich lately on DU, first Kucinich supposely got us in to war in Iraq and now this. :shrug:

[Uzybone]

13. Ive never attacked Kucinich

I like his views...its his some of "supporters" that rankle me. Anti Kucinich posts are not common here, the only time people speak negative about DK is after theyve been called trolls, DLC, Repuke Lite, etc by DKs supporters.

[JohnKleeb]

23. thats not true at all

that post that Kucinich caused the war by opposing it was not in response to any name calling. Youre wrong about Kucinich supporters. I have seldom seen this, believe me I see a lot.

[Zuni]

8. I wouldn't say 'vile'

that is way too harsh. Most seem to be well intentioned and honestly concerned. I think they are good people.
But many of them have elitist political (not personal) tendencies, and seem to regard people of different views as heathens. Of all the people here, I seem to have the most problem with Kucitizens flaming me.

[quinnox]

12. I haven't seen it

I have found the Kucinich supporters polite, and well reasoned. A few Dean supporters on the other hand... we won't go there.

[XanaDUer]

21. LOL!

;)

[AWD]

14. Wow...

....if someone were to ask me which candidate has the LEAST amount of offensive posters, I'd say Kucinich.

Actually, Kerry has the least amount of offensive supporters, but that's just because Kerry has the least amount of supporters overall. :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[JohnKleeb]

20. You really think so?

Thanks. We try despite our many hardships believe me.

[AWD]

22. Yes, absolutely.

The DK fans on this board are easily the nicest.

[Padraig18]

26. Overall, I would agree!

:)

[JohnKleeb]

27. why thanks

We really do try despite all the hard, I dont know why this person is coming from with this information. I hardly see anyone do what he says happens.

[Uzybone]

28. I dont know

Ive seen enough posts in the last few days that seem to say if you are not for Kucinich you are either stupid or not "left" enough. Most of his other supprters are indeed very nice, thats why I said some in my subject line.

[JohnKleeb]

32. do you have links

Well of course some people are vile, theres that in every campaign since the history of elections. Some are irriated and I think rightfully so that people's own superficalness wont let them support him. Its not as bad as you say it is and it seems that Kerry and Dean supporters disagree with you about this.

[Uzybone]

43. here are the ones I bookmarked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=416814

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=408608

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=398919

[thebigidea]

33. no, you said "many"

The premise of this thread is pretty vile. What did you expect if not a barrage of hurt feelings, flames, and sarcasm?

Some guy in a labcoat to come out and tell you that Kucinich supporters are vile because of industrial waste in their corn flakes?

[Uzybone]

36. oops my mistake

thanks for pointing it out.

[Loyal]

15. Every candidate has a few "vile" supporters on here,

but you paint with a broad brush, and I think that you are incorrect. I have seen vile things emanating from every campaign's supporters on here, except from the campaigns of Moseley-Braun, Sharpton, and Graham, and that's probably because I haven't been on here that long. Seriously, people, this candidate bashing has got to stop. Other Democrats are not our enemy, * is. This thread is a prime example of flame bait.

[XanaDUer]

17. I've been here a while and I have never seen a "vile"

DK supporter. What ridicuous lies and attacks do you mean?

[dsc]

18. There are precisely two supporters of Kucinich who

are even close to your inflammatory description. It isn't fair or honorable to tar all Kucinich supporters by their behavior.

[Terwilliger]

62. who who???

please enlighten us oh enlightened one

[JohnKleeb]

63. I know one of who is refering too

[dsc]

73. I wasn't referring to you

I didn't know if you even were a Kucinich supporter. We aren't allowed to call out people so I won't. If you are that interested you can pm me and I will let you know that way.

[Enraged American]

19. We're "vile" because we see the bullshit and are sickened by it

Only Kucinich supporters truly understand the political disease destroying America. This is why we are "vile!"

[KFC]

24. Because their man has no chance. Zero.

So they are probably a bit bitter.

[_NorCal_D_]

25. Please.

You don't have to unequivocally agree with everything Kucinich supporters say, but at least act a little more civil.

[lcordero]

30. I didn't know that it was "vile" to point out the difference in

between another candidate's words and how their words do not match their actions in the past.

[Julien Sorel]

35. Kucinich has some of the very best people here,

and some of the worst.

As to why, I think it becomes a chicken and egg question. :/

[_NorCal_D_]

37. Thanks for changing the title at least.

eom

[cosmicdot]

38. another unnecessary flame bait thread

when will it end???

vile????

"disgusting; morally base, depraved"





I guarantee you DK supporters are some of the most gentle, moral, patriotic, loyal, etc., people you'd ever meet. Bet they'd give you the shirt off their back if needed.

You don't know what you're talking about.

oops:
vile (see abrasive)

"capable of rubbing or grinding down; harsh and offensive in manner"

"give the world the best you have, the best will come back to you"

[JohnKleeb]

39. I tell you what its stuff like this that makes me wanna act out my anger

With that one thread in politics/campaigns that really almost made me wanna yell.

[MuseRider]

48. I was pretty

snarky today. I hate to admit it but there were a few posters who really ticked me off and I let them have it. BUT I did apologize to one of them in the thread because I did get way out of line. Out of line for me is much different than out of line for some but I was not very nice, she/he caught my drift, foiled it perfectly and it was instantly defused because I could not stop laughing about how deftly and nicely I was shut down. Some days it is tough here not to be snarky, I will try to do better always. I do, however don't understand how this thread got started. I see a lot of defensive DK supporters but usually not without being able to back it up. Vile is a word I would use only for Bush* and his gang.

[JohnKleeb]

50. Thats ok muse

I confronted in my own way. That tree still falls remember that. Just because the media chooses to remain blind doesnt mean DK isnt the best out there.

[MuseRider]

54. I agree

but I had no business as a Kucinich supporter acting like a jerk. I fight the Dean battle here at home enough as it is. I did take insult for every candidate that this particular supporter thinks they all coast by on his coattails. BUT, I think it was just stated poorly and I was pissy and he/she nailed me on it. It was truly a great moment for me, settled me down and made my day much more pleasant.

[RichM]

40. Doesn't changing the title imply that the poster realizes he's wrong, &

that his initial post was completely indefensible?

Of course it does. Wouldn't it be more honest for the poster to just come out and admit it -- and apologize?

Of course it would. Will the poster prove to be a big enough man to DO just that?

I doubt it - but let's see.

[JohnKleeb]

41. What I was about to say

At least hes showing more class than the person who posted that really vile Kucinich got us in to war with Iraq by opposing it.

[Uzybone]

42. if you had read it

you would see the apology. But you didnt did you?

[cosmicdot]

44. I see the "sorry" - but, I have to tell you ...

"abrasive" doesn't set well either

what's the difference in calling out a DUer by name and calling out a collective group of DUers by inference?

I see none.

saying "sorry" does go a long way

thanks

[JohnKleeb]

47. I accept your apology but please dont generalize

Youre gonna catch hell if you do that. I wouldnt do that to your candiate. Look there are jerks in all campaigns I admit but I think you were wrong. We try our best.

[Uzybone]

53. you probably wouldnt

but some of your DK pals have. Yeah it is spread out (nasty supporters) amongst all the candidates. It just pricks me more when its from DKs camp since his positions are superior to the others (as to whether they are realistic is another issue), and I expect better from his people. Rhetorical question: If your guy is so far and away the BEST candidate, why indulge in the same crap tactics?

[JohnKleeb]

55. This may sound a bit hard to explain but when you are constantly told

"You dont have a chance" ad nosieum you are gonna get mad and unfortunely be a little harsh but it isnt nearly as bad as you say it is.

[MuseRider]

56. Because we get so tired

of people saying that he has zero percent chance of winning. We all know how hard this struggle is but his views are so important to the discussion. When we try to communicate some of these things the same posters come in, can't back up their statements and have at him and us. It is hard and we are not always in the happy frame of mind. It is hard to finally have someone I feel totally comfortable supporting, say something good to another about it then have that followed up with a post calling him a loser. Makes me abrasive.

[quinnox]

46. He did apologize

It's in the post.

[RichM]

51. Where? Which post?

[DemExpat]

52. At the bottom of his original post......

DemEx

[PurityOfEssence]

49. Are you kidding? Compared to partisans of most others, they're saints.

I've even commented on this many times as part of an ongoing riff on the subject of the character of candidates being mirrored in those of their supporters.

I'd say that the Kucinich supporters are some of the least strident, least divisive, most gentle and most tolerant of any of the various groups. It even brought me to make a perplexed post when I first heard a strident post from one of his people.

Let's just say that they also have a RIGHT to be upset and even a tad superior, since their guy has a truly ethical and consistent through-line.

Sometimes it's a tough call as to what's more prevalent around here: hypocrisy, self-congratulation or obliviousness. The statement that started this thread is baseless and silly.

[DemBones DemBones]

57. Sticks and stones may break DemBones, but being called "vile"

or "abrasive" makes me giggle. As does the thesis of this thread.

Most Kucinich supporters never even criticize other candidates. I'm one who does, and I'm sometimes abrasive, but this is politics, not a Junior League tea party.

If you think a poster is lying, ask them to back up what they say. But don't accuse "some Kucinich supporters" of "ridiculous lies and attacks" or say they "lie and dissemble." Your links show a couple of Kucinich supporters stating an opinion. For example, a poster thought that Wesley Clark looked "creepy," had bags under his eyes, etc., at the debates. You may disagree with those comments -- and I disagree with them myself -- but "creepiness," like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, so you can't say it's a lie. Maybe it's an attack, but Kucinich has been attacked quite often for his hair, for not being handsome enough, not being tall, etc.

Another Kucinich supporter expressed the opinion that "there's already enough people on this forum posting that Kucinich and others (always the most liberal and progressive candidates) should just quit and make room for the fucking moderate candidates..." Perhaps you agree with those who keep suggesting that Kucinich (and Braun and Sharpton) should pack it in now but that doesn't take away the poster's right to say that people shouldn't be trying to narrow the race before the primaries begin (and I'm in complete agreement with the poster.) Maybe you object to the poster's use of the F word? If so, I wish you luck trying to rid DU of profanity, and suggest that Dennis has a far better chance of being President than you do of getting evil Duers to stop swearing! ;-)

[Uzybone]

58. DemBones

" Perhaps you agree with those who keep suggesting that Kucinich (and Braun and Sharpton) should pack it in now but that doesn't take away the poster's right to say that people shouldn't be trying to narrow the race before the primaries begin (and I'm in complete agreement with the poster.)

Hell no, we need thier voices heard and we need them to putr pressure on the frontrunners (who apart from Kerry dont have very liberal records so far IMO) from the left.

Maybe you object to the poster's use of the F word?

Fuck no. :)

[LWolf]

59. They aren't.

I've seen variations of this statement made about Dean supporters, Kerry supporters, and Clark supporters, since they are all the most vocal. I've seen "abrasive" posts from supporters of every single one of those candidates. I've also met some really great people supporting every single one.

I object to characterizing whole groups of people negatively or labeling them with epithets...vile, abrasive, ridiculous, liars, dissemblers, suicidal, whatever your mud of choice is at the moment. To use the words vile and abrasive to describe people while you call them "ridiculous liars" and accuse them of attacking? Who is doing the attacking here?

Since I am a Kucinich supporter, I pay pretty close attention to the posts made by fellow Kucitizens. We're not perfect, but we're good people. We are generally accepting and supportive of our DU friends no matter who they support. So are most of the supporters of other candidates.

When I find a poster who seems bent on bloodshed; an attack dog who attacks just because, without substance or civility, I generally hit ignore. Not on the first or 2nd time I notice it; but when it becomes a pattern. Who needs to feed someone's obsession with fighting? And then it's amazing how many good conversations I have with all the DUers.

If I were to do a search for posts on each candidate, and look to tally the disruptors according to candidate, it wouldn't be DK supporters who topped the list. And it doesn't matter who would be at the top, because I won't tar and feather a group based on a few individual members.

How about you reach out a hand in friendship, and respect our right to make our choices based on our points of view on the issues? Refrain from calling us names, accusing us of conduct we haven't engaged in, I'll do the same for you, and DU will be a happier place to chat.

[Closer]

60. With the exception of a few

I find Kucinich supporters to be passionate about their candidate, while at the same time, being respectful of others.

They know they have a TRUE democrat in Kucinich and that's good enough for them.


Now you wanna talk about ABRASIVE, the Clark supporters are numerous here. By far, the absolute worst of the crowd.

[Terwilliger]

61. who exactly thinks Kucinich is sqeaky clean?

exactly?

[janekat]

64. I'm not one of them - but I don't blame them. Dean is a Liberal

"Pretender" and has pulled the wool over the Progressives eyes and has run off with all of their votes. Must be frustrating...

[JohnKleeb]

65. he hasnt got mine but then again

:cry: I am too young to vote. Its not that really, its that its shoved down our throats that our guy cant win and we see in the media that Dean is the only one who is the anti bush liberal. I know Dean is a centrist but the media never acknowledging Dennis pisses me off. I dont know but all I can say is you are gonna catch hell for this, a warning.

[janekat]

69. oh I know I 'm going to catch hell for th - but why do you say "warning"?

Do you mean that you think that I'll get a "warning" from the moderators? Certainly NOT for that. We are free to speak our minds here. Please explain...

[JohnKleeb]

71. no I didnt mean it like that

dont worry about it

[jonnyblitz]

66. .I believe most of his progressive supporters know he isnt one

they are attracted to him for other reasons.

[Cha]

67. Dean is who he is and hasn't "pretended" to be anything other

than that. You are using inept talking points.

Dean's Supporters know who he is .. And the many who I have talked to ..like it just fine that there are no labels for him.

Dean is a maverick who is not liked by the big boys and that makes me love him even more! :kick:

[janekat]

68. There's a lot of Progressives who are supporting him because they

think he's a "Progressive". THAT'S what bothers me. He has a totally abyssmal record on the environment, is pro-gun, pro-death penalty, put the "brakes" on medical marijuna among other things.

I will be posting some info on this soon (hopefully tomorrow).

[Cha]

70. you do that.

Those "progressives" better check out their candidates ..Dean hasn't tried to paint himself to be anyone else than who he is...it's all right there on his website...http://www.deanforamerica.com & on the http://www.blogforamerica.com

[PurityOfEssence]

76. He's "conveniently" been whatever to whomever

Sure, that's tactically clever, but it's not strategically wise. It would be interesting to see the right continue to tar him as a liberal, without him disputing it too much, then have to backtrack if nominated; he would then be rightfully derided as slippery. There's a fine line between cleverness and deception sometimes, and if he were to take the nomination and then backtrack (to where he truly is) it could be really beaten into us that he's untrustworthy.

"Interesting" though that would be, it could be deadly.

[Skinner]

74. I'm locking this.

It's flamebait. While it's not forbidden, I think it's not helpful to start threads to specifically attack the supporters of a particular candidate. You had the good sense to ditch the term "vile" in your post, but I'm not sure that you really saved yourself.

[im4edwards]

75. I've found that the more extreme the belief, the more shrill the believer

Those Kucinich supporters that opted for him because hes as far left as anyone running though not nearly as far left as they are likely the ones you describe. A similar analagy is extreme fundamentalists, do you not find them similarly abrasive ? If an extreme is the only thing that is "right" then anything short of that is "wrong" and the farther off the "wronger". Or as Wayne and Garth would say, they're just gone mental.