Do you respect the person who enlists because they believe in the cause?

[bluestateguy]

I do.

I have opposed the Iraq War for over 2 years, before the war ever started, in fact. I have not wavered from that position in almost 12,000 posts at DU. I do not feel the need to once again reiterate my total opposition to this war because, well, I do it every day. Nor am I one of those "well we're there, and we can't leave" types of people. I favor a lock, stock and barrel pullout to be completed by the end of the calendar year.

But I do tip my hat to the person who does support the war and is honorable enough to enlist in the Marines, Army or National Guard to personally fight for the principles in which he/she believes. Even if I think that person is misguided, I credit someone who will put on a uniform to go an fight for the principles in which he believes. Just as I can respect the service of Confederate soldiers who fought honorably for a cause in which they believed; even if I, as a Californian, would have been on that same battlefield fighting against them in the Union Army. That is why I was angry at all of the Pat Tillman bashing from the likes of Ted Rall, that other little shit at UMass and even some DUers.

My biggest beef will always be with the chickenhawk cowards in this Administration and out in the country who are too cowardly to fight for the principles in which they believe.

[VelmaD]

1. Not particularly, because...

it's hard to believe any well-informed human being could actually be in favor of this war.

[DaveinMD]

3. not all people

are well-informed. That doesn't make them bad. WE need to do a better job informing them.

[VelmaD]

9. The information is out there...

for anyone who wants to look. If you can't bother to inform yourself...then why should I respect you?

We screamed and hollered and marched and protested all over the world before this war. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[DaveinMD]

2. by the way

Tillman fought in Afganistan and to me that is a major difference.

[liberalnurse]

4. I respect them....

I do not parallel the military with this foul administration.

[liberaltrucker]

8. Howdy LN

:hi:

[liberalnurse]

41. Howdy Liberaltrucker.....

I just checked my posts....I've been zig-zagging on DU this week...bewtween work, while at work and I'm playing with my new PDA cellphone I just bought....I got the Samsung i-730.

:hi:

[liberaltrucker]

5. Agreed

If someone believes in the cause(no matter how assinine)enough to die for it, they have my admiration.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

10. So by extension, then, you admire many Nazis, terrorists, Kamikazes,

the southerners trying to keep their slaves--and, yes, defend their state's rights (come on, people, I'm making a hyperbolic point).

I think you probably want to re-frame or at least redefine your general premise here.

Oh yeah, the people who kill abortion doctors and are willing to get the death penalty--you admire them.

[liberaltrucker]

18. You're absolutely right

If I may, I'll take a Mulligan on that one. If a young American is so ill informed that he/she believes in the war as defending the Nation, and we haven't been able to spread the word to enough people, then, yes he/she has my admiration and respect. Unlike the college Puke Chickenhawks. Clarified enough?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

24. So then your clarification applies only to young American?

Not to young German, Japanese, Libyan, Irishman, or young abortion doctor killers who could get the death penalty?

Perhaps your position is this:
Although I still loathe those uniformed individuals who pick up a gun and kill indiscriminately out of pure ignorance and filled with patriotic good intentions, I still admire these people more than the college Puke Chickenhawks, who spew lies they know are false and don't have the conviction to support said lies and allow others to go instead.

[liberaltrucker]

27. Yes, young Americans

The context of this thread is nieve(sp) young AMERICANS believing in the cause in Iraq. If you want to discuss Nazis, southern slave owners,etc. start a thread about it. Beware, though, you'll find we're in agreement on those issues.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

30. You should reread the original post:

"But I do tip my hat to the person who does support the war and is honorable enough to enlist in the Marines, Army or National Guard to personally fight for the principles in which he/she believes. Even if I think that person is misguided, I credit someone who will put on a uniform to go an fight for the principles in which he believes. Just as I can respect the service of Confederate soldiers who fought honorably for a cause in which they believed;"
***First, the OP writes "person," not "young American." You may have meant "young American," and that's why I sought clarification. Second, the OP specifically invokes the Confederacy. So I figured you were on board.

I think the OP intended that his insights could be extrapolated to the world at large.

[liberaltrucker]

32. I stand corrected

Been a long day. Drove from SLC to Sacramento. Plead guilty to DUing while fatigued. BTW, check your PM's. I sent you one.

[LibertyorDeath]

20. Well if someone wants to die for an "asinine" cause

That's their choice and they are a fucking idiot to do it

What's an asinine cause

In reference to Iraq
We fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here.

Only the truly bone stupid can believe such insipid crap.

I'll type this part slowly for them.

IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9\11 NOTHING ZILCH ZERO NADA .

[liberaltrucker]

23. I know that and you know that

And most, if not all DUers know that. But that leaves millions of Americans exposed only to the MSM. They're not stupid, just uninformed. Think about it-if you were so busy with your family and job that the only news you get is ABC WNT, how informed would YOU be.

[LibertyorDeath]

26. I realize not everyone is going to be equally informed on a given issue

but many stay intentionally uninformed IMO
they don't want to know.
The ignorance is bliss crowed.
Then there's those that are uninformed and when they are fully informed
they refuse to believe valid info because it goes against their ideology or their belief about their country or government or fellow citizens.

You stay uninformed at your own risk. IMO

and if someone is going to enlist for the "cause" and put their life on the line then they of all people should be the best informed.

[liberaltrucker]

29. Agreed

Too many have a Bud or doobie and just say screw it. Per valid info, I'm from Alabama. 'nuff said:cry:

[noamnety]

6. They have to earn my respect as a person

Those guys in the photo wearing the Club Gitmo shirts? They haven't earned my respect.

People who go so they can "shoot me some Ayrabs"? No respect.


That's like asking if I respect Phelps for fighting for his beliefs. Um, no.


If the person is honorable, I'll respect them.

[NaturalHigh]

7. Yes, I respect that person.

I'm a veteran, and I respect those who serve.

[seabeyond]

11. i agree with your post. and i too have families, good families

people i respect and admire, who have children who have signed up. maybe because there family has always been military, or because of whatever. but i do respect them. and i hope for the best for them over there. and when they have a child that is injured, and they sit in fear, i sit there with them.

they are my neigbors, friends, my fellow man

[PurityOfEssence]

12. It depends on which cause

If it's to go out and fight wacked-out murderous fundamentalism, I've got some respect for it. If it's to go out and stomp some wogs so we can steal their oil, I don't.

[Jacobin]

13. Ya know what Negroponte calls them?

"Illusionists"

As Iraq resumed its sovereignty after the period of American occupation, the new American team that arrived then, headed by Ambassador John D. Negroponte, had a withering term for the optimistic approach of their predecessors, led by L. Paul Bremer III.

The new team called the departing Americans "the illusionists," for their conviction that America could create a Jeffersonian democracy on the ruins of Saddam Hussein's medieval brutalism. One American military commander began his first encounter with American reporters by asking, "Well, gentlemen, tell me: Do you think that events here afford us the luxury of hope?"

http://billmon.org/

I think "fool" is a more apt description.

[NNN0LHI]

14. Before someone volunteers to go off and kill another human being...

...it is their duty to look into the reasons and validity for making such a decision. Killing people ain't tiddlywinks.

Don

[Selatius]

15. I honestly don't know the answer to this one

Here is my problem. Just look at this statement I'm about to put up:

"I respect any man who is willing enough to go fight and possibly die for a cause. I may not necessarily agree with said cause, but it takes serious fortitude to do something such as that."

The problem is what if the person was an Iraqi who decided to join the resistance after he buried his entire family in a grave after a US raid gone bad? How could I possibly react to that?

To be honest, I can't tell you how I'd react except feel sympathy for the man or any person willing to pick up the gun.

Ultimately, that person in the US who decided to enlist is going to end up fighting that Iraqi in his own back yard. At the end of the day, only one man will come home alive. Tell me: Why?

[liberaltrucker]

25. An unanswerable question

My brother volunteeed for Nam in 68. To this day he can't(or won't) explain why.

[Selatius]

33. Did your brother come back the same after the war?

Did he come back home okay? I've seen enough war vets to know that some of them do come home alive, but they seem to have died on the inside. I hope your brother is okay with what happened in that war so long ago.

[Orsino]

16. I respect their willingness to sacrifice for thier belief...

...but may wish that their dedication could be harnessed for good.

[whistle]

17. The cause is world empire and control of oil for the U.S.

....Who but a patriotic nut-case would voluntarily join up for that cause?

[Tactical Progressive]

19. Mostly they're kids

and indoctrinated young men. As long as they do their military jobs honestly and with as much compassion and consideration for the lives of others while doing it as they can, which I believe most of them do, then I respect them.

And that leaves alot more disrespect and anger for the people who sent them on their mission with as many ulterior motives and dishonesty to cover them as they can muster. Those people get just about all of my disrespect.

[LibertyorDeath]

21. Nice try

If the "cause" is evil do you still respect them.

[Divernan]

22. Nope. My view is more "Pity the fool!"

"To personally fight for the principles in which she/he believes" is your description. You don't define "principles", but it seems to me that the vast majority of young enlistees lack education or perspective on the origins and goals of this administration's war. I don't believe that any sane, informed person chooses to risk his or her life for Big Oil or Bush's Revenge or Halliburton's profits.

What I see are misguided fools, desperately poor people who believed the recruiters' lies that they would not be sent to Iraq, and macho racists on testosterone overload who hate all Arabs and find in the military the chance to indulge their murderous racism.

There are also those who were already in the midst of a military career who are simply trying to salvage their professional investment in the military and survive the current nightmare.

[seabeyond]

28. those of you that can so easily dismiss our young people, do you

personally know any of the families that have members in iraq. coming face to face with a family that had two sons in the marines before 9/11 and now another son, 17 already enrolled in the marines and will be taken in a year, i do see it differently than when i knew no one personally experiencing military and iraq and .....

[Dragonfli]

31. More than they will ever know

A person willing to risk death to fight for something they believe in is worthy of nothing but respect.

I feel great sadness and regret for them however because their bravery is being misused as they have been deliberately misinformed.

I loath the chicken-hawk neo-cons and the corporate media propaganda machine for leading these brave, yet misinformed individuals to their deaths for the sake of "right wing think tank theories" and corporate greed. For them I have no respect.

[nookiemonster]

35. I agree. This is nothing but mass manipulation.

It's different in the military. You really want to believe what you're doing is right. I definitely don't condone the actions of some of our soldiers, however I don't buy the "bad apples" bullshit theory.

This shit came from the top. It wasn't created on the spot.

And what about the fucking contractors. Seems that we never hear about them anymore.

Sad. So fucking sad.

[InkAddict]

34. Excuse me, again, but what's the cause, again please?????

Choose the best answer:
1)Freedom for Iraqis = dead citizens are free and truthful dictators locked away for their own protection so they don't talk too much, say AMEN, Hallelujah!
2)Peak Oil = saving some lube and $$ for the power priests of AmeriKa
3)A policy of, according to unreleased photos - No furen child's left behind cause if it don't work here maybe it'll work there????
4)Smokin' out Osama, yeah right!
5)All of the above, cause God told it to the Shrub just like that



You're a poor little lamb who has gone astray, baaa, baaa, baaa

[Pushed To The Left]

36. Yes

I have nothing but respect for the men and women who put their lives on the line to serve their country. I agree that the chickenhawks are the problem!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anitar1]

38. no n/t

[Kickin_Donkey]

39. Nope.

The ones who sign up are ignorant -- or worse. They've been brainwashed. People who blindly follow along and march to their death do not deserve praise.

As individual citizens, they can be judged on the morality of their individual actions. It's an immoral, illegal, imperialistic, racist war. If you willingly sign up and choose to take part it, then you're complicit.

As a public institution, the military as a whole (and the Bush administration) must be subject to public scrutiny and criticism, and it's the same for the soldiers as public servants and citizens.

"Just following orders" is not a valid excuse for war crimes. There's nothing honorable or worthy of respect in being a "good German."

[moondust]

40. They're still fools.

But simply not being a despicable chickenhawk deserves some measure of respect.