Today's religious fanatics are badly in need of psychological help.

[Cyrano]

And yes, this is an attack upon moral certitude.

Human beings have been buying into dogma for all of recorded history. But those who still buy into today's various flavors of it seem to lack the ability to reason, read, or observe anything that doesn't confirm to their preconceived/embedded concepts.

For centuries, religious beliefs have been the rationale for prejudices, (many) wars, massacres and, eventually, the Holocaust.

And here we are again/still. This time around it's the Muslims who are the "enemy." Ummm, if my memory serves me correctly, these were the same people that "Good Christians" went after during the Crusades.

We are currently living through yet another period of insanity caused by two planes destroying the World Trade Center, and George Bush exploiting that horrific act in order to enhance his own power and help his friends profit from it.

Bush (and his ilk) have used Christian fanatics to help further his cause, in the same way that Osama Bin Laden (and his ilk) have recruited Muslim fanatics to help further his cause.

Unfortunately, all the rest of us are caught in the crossfire of this fanaticism. There's not too much we can do about Islamic fanaticism. That's something that has to be dealt with by those of conscience who believe in Islam.

But Christian fanatics are our problem. And what are we doing about it? Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and George Bush pretend to speak for you and me in this "religious war." So if you believe that what we are doing is wrong, how about raising your voice in church next Sunday? And if you don't go to church, how about raising your voice to every moron who blindly defends our fascist policies? And yes, it may often be dangerous to voice your opinion in public. But that should tell you something about the depths to which our country has fallen.

(Full disclosure: I'm a devout agnostic who believes that organized religion has been one of the most destructive forces in the history of humanity. But I also believe that organized religion can be a great force for good, as we saw during the civil rights movement of the '60s.)

Okay, end of rant. Fire away.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. Bush once claimed "no religious divide" in the US

and then of course they go on about the "other faith". Whatever they mean. I can't keep track.

[Erika]

2. Bush gave the fanatics a voice and empowered them

More and more Christians are totally embarrassed by Bush and the the right wing fanatics.

[longship]

3. Remind me again

Why are Xtian fanatics are our problem?

Why are Muslim fanatics not our problem?

Other than those questions, I mostly agree with your post.

But I would phrase it as: religious fanatics are *everybody's* problem.

[RC]

8. The Christian fanatics attacked the Muslims during the Crusades

Those wonderful Christians way back when. "Kill them all and let God sort them out."
What arrogance. The Muslims believe in the same god! Where were the teaching of Christ? Where are they now?
The knowledge that was lost. The 1500 years science was condemned, people tortured and murdered in the name of various "Christian" gods. The is no greater power for war than religion. Somehow I don't think the gods would approve of their creation being destroyed in their name.

[Kalish]

4. Hey let them go even nuttier

The nuttier they get the more they scare away the center.

[Ready2Snap]

5. Nothing new here, Cyrano

And I'm agnostic too, because of Mozart.

[Cyrano]

9. Agnosticism and Mozart

A great conundrum. What inspired Mozart? A supreme being? Chance? A chemical imbalance in the brain? Some unidentifiable entity called genius? -- Beats me.

But whatever produced his genius, along with that of Beethoven, Shakespeare, Plato, Homer, J.D. Salinger, Tennessee Williams, Arthur Miller,Harper Lee, and so many others too numerous to mention here, the premise doesn't change.

However, my agnosticism leads me to always wonder what it was that inspired those mentioned above, and so many others, to set down words and notes of wisdom.

I'm one of those unfortunate people who will never have answers, only questions. Then again, that may not be an unfortunate form of existence. To question is to seek knowledge.

[Tux]

6. The true problem

Fundies in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam see themselves as special as told to them by God.

Jews think they're special since God lead them from one desert to another then gave them the 10 Commandments.

Christians think they're special because Jesus fulfilled prophecy and brought salvation to believers.

Muslims think they're special since God gave them the Koran thus trumping Judaism and Christianity.

All 3 are using the same version of God, a great sky king. Jews don't really bother anyone except when "holy" land is involved. Christians are generally confused why Jews aren't Christian and that causes friction. Muslims are annoyed by both since they reject God's latest best seller.

Add fundmentalism and we'll never see peace in the Middle East. Each is fighting to prove them and the other 2 wrong. Thanks to Osama and Bush, more fuel is added to the fire. Eventually, other religions will be under attack and it can only get worse.

[jzodda]

7. James Dobson=American version of Osama Bin Laden

Sure he and his kind has not resorted to violence YET but given the time and the power he would. Since the kind of certainty you speak of leaves no room for moderation eventually people like that have historically always turned to violence. Only the fact that we live in a country that tries to be secular by law has prevented his kind from getting out of hand, but that shield will not last much longer....

[number_nine]

10. How do the religious fanatics reconcile their politics with their faith?

...at least Christians, as I don't know enough about Islam (though I would assume they have virtually the same teachings).

Seriously, I know this sounds like a rhetorical question, but I've never had the guts to ask any of my hard-core religious right acquaintances how they can support things like war, extreme wealth, the abolishment of social programs, etc, but at the same time call themselves Christian?

It just seems so arrogant that some people can, on the one hand, spew born-again evangelical bilge until they're short of breath. When they catch their breath, they'll start ranting about stuff that is completely at odds with the teachings of Christ! Their so-called faith is so strong, yet they can decide when to make exceptions. Makes me want to pull my hair out!

(Side note: I just read The Da Vinci Code and now I'm following up with Holy Blood, Holy Grail. While I recognize the need for faith and spirituality, it irks me to no end that (at least with Christianity) people get so worked up over the literal contents of the Bible, when the teachings are really what's important.)

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[lildreamer316]

12. Great points & Welcome!

You will find your views are shared by many here; although we have devout ppl of all faiths also.

Welcome to DU!!:hi:

[SheepyMcSheepster]

13. welcome to DU!

it is quite frustrating experiencing the disconnect that some who consider themselves to be great christians have with the actual teachings. it's like they concentrate on the small frivilous things while ignoring the more obvious and important.

welcome to DU!

:hi:

[jzodda]

15. What you mention is one reason I think the world is going nuts

The people who are the so called "christian right" do not believe in the gov helping the poor, the mentally ill, the sick, etc.

They openly discriminate against homosexuals and anybody else who is what they consider to be "ungodly" Jerry Falwell said 9/11 was our punishment for supporting gay rights remember?

The christian right also wear their hard line support for military action on their sleeves and support the kind of robber barren capitalism that was deemed too harsh for even 100 years ago!

For the most part they could care less about the envirnment, endangered species and the elderly? They should just stop trying to hang around and accept death....All good nice RELIGIOUS views huh???



and we on the other hand...support the poor, the hungry, the sick, the disabled, the minorities, the workers, the envirnment and WE are not the "Christian" ones? How can that be? The other side has done an amazing job of turning this thing around to make us look like the bad guys when its them who are

[Cyrano]

14. I don't believe Dobson has blown up any abortion clinics, but

do you believe he'd try to stop anyone else from doing so?

A fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic. My fear is that those who destroy abortion clinics are just engaging in pre-game practice for all who hold the beliefs of Dobson, Robertson and their ilk.

The "Winds of War" (to borrow a title from Herman Woulk) are hovering over our country. And I live in dread of what is yet to come if we continue on our present course.

[rumpel]

11. FYI. Mel Gibson to film Apocalypto

[Cyrano]

16. The title gives a clue as to what you're talking about, however, how

about some more detail.

Just because Mel Gibson is "planning a film" doen't make it "evil."

Lay out some facts. Without them, we only become what we are fighting against.

[ladjf]

17. All living things have a natural tendency to try to spread their

areas of influence as far as possible. In the normal course of things, there are other entities that block that spread from going too far. It's called the "Balance of Nature". Occasionally, for brief periods, the checks and balances systems break down allowing the organism to spread unchecked. That is happening now in the U.S.
with the spread of religious fundamentalism and corporate fascism.

Religious fanaticism and Corporate Fascism are living entities that share the same fervent desire to conquer all. It's called "Imperialism" in this context. Yes, religious fundamentalists are theological imperialists. That's why they fit in so well with the fascists imperialism. Both ride in on the backs of the military.