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Will the rift between right and left lead to civil war?

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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:07 AM
Original message
Will the rift between right and left lead to civil war?
The divide in this country is evident. History has taught that this is the way civil wars are fought. One faction vying for power over another faction. Are we in the infancy of what may be another American civil war? Neither side in this country is budging and the power struggle is lopsided to favor one party. A party who seems hell bent on absolute power and absolute control, not to mention world domination.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is this another DLC thread? eom
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not one involving violence,
but I am convinced there is a cold civil war going on right now.
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Finder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Agree
I don't think it will get violent though since the divisions within each side are substantial with a majority landing in the middle.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I compare it to the 1870-1930 period.
Starting in the 1870s you started to have a lot of industrial strife, as business wanted to keep its costs down by keeping labor down, and labor fighting back (The Coal Strikes of the 1870s and the General Strike of 1877). The 1880s saw this extended to the farmers and the raise of "Free Silver" and other progressive parties of the time period (The Famous "Raise less corn and more Hell" comment of a Farm leader of the time period). Labor again became the head with the strikes of the 1890s (Which lead to the imprisonment of Eugene Debs and his conversion to Communism/Socialism). This tension increased throughout the 1890-1912 period and the Democrats slowly increased their percentage of votes during this time period till in 1912 the Democrats won the Presidency. Once the Democrats were in some reforms were introduced (Direct Election of Senators, Women's right to vote, Progressive Income Tax, strengthen the Anti-Trust Acts and the exception of Labor from Anti-Trust Acts) but caused mostly by an acute labor shortage which caused the price of labor to go up (The immediate caused of the "Labor" Shortage was WWI which prevented new immigrates from Europe at the same time increased demand for American goods).

The 1920s is always called a "good time period" but only for about 1/2 of the population, labor and farmers suffered during the 1920s but people who could afford to buy a car prospered. Surprisingly while this period of prosperity happened in American, Europe was suffering through a post-war recession during the 1920s. Thus when the Depression hit it hit America first and hard and only than did the Depression spread to Europe (Which lead to the raising Fascist movement throughout Europe in the early 1930s).

In the USA the internal clashes (Labor vs Big Business, Farmers vs Argi-Business) continued during this period (early 1930s). American's resolution of the problem was to pass various reform packages that have been proposed for decades (For example the National Labor Relations Act, the Security and Exchange Commission act, The Public Utility Holding Company act, etc i.e. the "New Deal").

During this whole period you had a fight between the Left and Right. While the Right painted the left as Communists, the Left was much broader than the Marxist including Small Farmers, Small Businessmen, and other people advocating Reforms. On the Right business pushed Government to protect Business from those "Radicals" on the Left. This lead to the introduction of Troops during the Labor Problems of the 1870s, 1890s and 1930s. The invention of the Modern State Police Force (The Pennsylvania State Police was the First State Police formed, being founded in 1903, the Texas Rangers claim to be older but today's Rangers are more the product of the 20th Century than its name sake of the 19th). And lets don't Forget the Palmer raids of 1919 AND the West Virginia Coal War of the same year (Which was suppressed by the Army and the first time, and so far the only time in America, that "Rioter" were bombed from planes).

Not to be content with leaving the suppression of labor to the Government and the Army, Business went into its own labor control system, including "Yellow Dog Contracts" (employment Contract forbidding a worker to join a union), spying on unions, hiring their own police officers, with full police powers granted by the state (These "Coal and Iron Police" have been called the only truly American Terrorist group), organizing and paying for private "Militias" to protect "The American Way of Life", making sure all of the major news outlets (in the 1870-1930 period that meant newspapers and later radio) gave nothing but pro-business news (In regards to Radio this one sided argument lead to the "Fairness" Doctrine in the reforms of the 1930s). In the early 1930s the Business community went so far as to advocate taking over the Government to prevent a "Communist" takeover of the Government.

Yes, it sounds like today, unions are declining, business is claiming it has to cut labor cost to be competitive, right wing militia are being formed and the police are more and more being used in "riot" control situation as opposed to going after criminals.
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:10 AM
Original message
We wouldn't need a civil war...
if the sheeple would wake up, then maybe we could just have a revolution to take our country back from the neocon/theocratic minority. I am skeptical, to say the least.
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think Rove (read PNAC) wants this!! eom
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. No
I don't think so. Could we be in the infancy? Sure, anything's possible, but I just don't see it. We're more likely to head to a totalitarian regime, a true one, and then have another revolution, rather than a 'civil war'. I guess you could say that a revolution would be a civil war, but I tend to think that civil war is really between two armed sides with their own terriroties battling it out.

Semantics.

Whatever is happening, or will happen, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future violence became a part of it.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. I've discounted the possibility
of a civil war because there isn't a clear geographical separation among us....if there was, I would be worried.

Remember, that with a few exceptions, most states aren't pure red or pure blue, they're sort of purple...

The issues that divide us: abortion, states rights, and on and on ...are almost on a neighbor-to-neighbor basis and not state-by-state...

no

civil war isn't a concern.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Correct. The geographic separation does not exist.
We're a purple nation. Even in the Real Civil War, some crossed the line to fight on the other side.

But these threads keep cropping up.
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LoneDriver Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. As was Spain in 1936
nt
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. I have a daughter who is overly dramatic. I'll bet you two guys
in one room would be something to see!
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Doesn't hurt to weigh all scenarios.
does it?
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. It would save you time to ony work on the scenarios that have,
at least, a tiny chance of happening.:beer:
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. I sure as hell hope not, cuz those idiots have all the guns
not to mention the military at their beck and call.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Don't worry, they are cowards.
Sure, they might have the occasional insane nut-job that attempts to blow up a building... but by and large conservatives are cowards who would prefer to let other people do the fighting for them.

Liberals face down armed police, sing resistance songs in prisons, attend protests and sacrifice life-and-limb in order to make the world a better place.

Liberals may not look or talk as tough as a gun-toting Republican, but we've got hearts of lions and wills of steel.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. "those idiots have all the guns"
Haven't been down to the DU gun forum much, I see. A lot more non-repubs are gun owners than you probably realize. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1897170
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. No, there's too much to lose
Frankly, I think that if there wasn't an Internet and 24/7 news we would have no idea of this so-called divide in the country. The fact is the that coasts have always been different than the heartland and the North has always been different than the South. It's just that a) we didn't see each other this much before and b) we didn't have two close elections to emphasize the differences so much.

The fact remains that only about 48 percent of the country has any type of political interest at all. The vast majority aren't really into this red state/blue state nonsense because they are probably surrounded by one group and don't care anyway.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. I can't imagine wanting to kill another American. Even a Freeper.
The Freepers are vile, anti-life, fascist bastards... but I'm not ready to kill them.

Fireing a weapon at a fellow American would be like gnawing off my own arm.
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LoKnLoD Donating Member (923 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. They all could use....
Edited on Tue Jul-26-05 10:23 AM by LoKnLoD
a really , really good spanking though.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. LOL!
Get together the spank-brigade. Chaaarrgggeee!!!!
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. What does this make me think of......
GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking!
DINGO: You must spank her well, and after you have spanked her, you may deal with her as you like, and then, spank me.
AMAZING: And spank me.
STUNNER: And me.
LOVELY: And me.
DINGO: Yes. Yes, you must give us all a good spanking!
GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking! There is going to be a spanking tonight!
DINGO: And after the spanking, the oral sex.
GIRLS: The oral sex! The oral sex!
GALAHAD: Well, I could stay a bit longer.
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In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. I totally agree with this sentiment.
However I would defend myself if it ever became necessary ~ hopefully THAT day will never come!
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TriMetFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. We are in a civil war, without the guns so far.
Think about it. Like you wrote one party is in control and also is trying to take over the world. The people in the "blue states" pay for most of the taxes in this nation, the red ones use most of the welfare and are willing t lose their civil rights for GOD.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
16. I don't think so, Jara
I still envision that some Democrat will be able to speak up and bring the idiots back their senses, should they get too far over the line of incivility.
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. If we can't have fair vote counting, it could come to guns.
As things now stand, WE DON'T HAVE A DEMOCRACY. When you, in effect, are handing your ballot to representatives of the voting machine companies and telling them, "Here, you fill out my ballot for me, and please use invisible ink," you are not in a democracy.

Is this what we want?

Until that changes, what does anybody have to lose?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. I think that some of the right is waking up
Edited on Tue Jul-26-05 10:59 AM by dogday
Even my Dad who is so republican is talking about his civil rights. Not all republicans are these weird religious freaks. They are normal people like us who just want a good job, home and to raise their family without going broke. I hope we all come together and take care of this country's business of outing this Adminstration....
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. NO
But a friendly divorce would be nice. Most of us Blue Staters are similar to peoples who live in the rest of the industrialized world-we support progressive government.
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Kalish Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. no cuz reality is more complex than left vs. right
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