The Daily Howler takes Josh Marshall to task

[Kalish]

"As readers may have noticed, we’ve been troubled by the slide-toward-propaganda of Josh Marshall’s once-superlative work. Yesterday, Josh provided the latest examples—a set of propagandistic (but outraged) posts about Intelligence Committee chairman Pat Roberts."

snip

"Normally, when we flatly misstate what someone has said, we issue a correction. But in the world of propaganda, we do something entirely different; we pour additional fuel on the fire. So it was with Josh’s second, longer post, a post filled with name-calling rants and odd speculations—and empty of relevant information. In this second post, Josh makes name-calling accusations against Roberts—accusations he makes no real attempt to justify. This is the soul of propaganda. Can’t you just hear him? Hey rubes!"

www.dailyhowler.com

[bryant69]

1. Daily howler has done great work

I think in this post Daily Howler and Josh Marshall are talking past each other. There are two issues, what will come of the criminal investigation, and how should the Bush White House deal with the leakers. Daily Howler rightly points out we don't know the answer to the first question (whatever we speculate, we don't know for sure). But I think that Talking POints Memo is more focused on the second.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Kalish]

4. I think Sommersby goes out of way his to 'nit pick'

especially when he's going after a fellow progressive.

It's almost like he strains to try and show that he points out errors on both sides.

[bryant69]

6. Wouldn't surprise me

It is sort of the way a media critic is supposed to work (looked at a certain way). If he just picked on conservatives he'd eventually seem like just another partisan.

[blm]

2. What's gotten into Somerby? Roberts' complicity is pretty damn apparent.

.

[KittyWampus]

7. Jealousy. Somerby Is Becoming Irrelevant, IMO. Others Are Carrying The

heavy load and getting information he only wishes he had access to.

[geek tragedy]

3. Marshall was addressing Roberts' intent and getting past

what Roberts was technically saying.

The DH is being a nit-picker here.

[Kelvin Mace]

8. Ah, but it is important to quote people ACCURATELY

You can speculate on what they mean, bnut when you misquote their actual words, you are wrong.

I like Josh too, but Sommersby has a point.

[geek tragedy]

9. Did Marshall quote Roberts? From what I read, Marshall

was summarizing what Roberts was implying and suggesting.

Remember the "Saddam did 911" quotes from the White House? There aren't any--but funny how the Republican base got that message.

[Kelvin Mace]

11. He did not, but that is the problem

This is how messages get twisted. His summary misconstrues because that is not what he said. Josh should have quoted him, THEN he could extrapolate on what was said, not said, or implied.

We get VERY angry when the Right does this to us ("Dick Durbin called our soldiers Nazis"), so we should not do it, no matter the reason.

Roberts *was* in my opinion trying to make the point of "How covert could she be if she drove to Langley every day?". But that does NOT excuse what Josh did.

It is IMPERATIVE that the man be quoted accurately and THEN you can dissect his words.

We are relying on Josh to give us the facts. It is very annoying to have the other side be able to say "we didn't say that", and they are correct. We then start by having to concede error. Better to quote accurately and argue meaning without the handicap of error.

In hindsight, I would have said "summarize" rather than quote.

[depakid]

5. Finally, someone called that guy out

As much as I (usually) agree with Marshal, his analysis is shallow more often than it is insightful.

[BlueWolff]

10. Daily Howler is full of it too on this point!

Obviously there is jealousy...but beyond that if you read the DailyHowler RANT and it is a RANT too...he purposely left out the most important part of the post ..which was REALLY the heart of Josh's
post and point..From the article...
"Little said the Senate committee would also review the probe of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, who has been investigating the Plame case for nearly two years."...THIS...is the important part of the article and the real reason I think Josh was calling out Roberts.....WHY..yes WHY did DailyHowler leave it out....I smell a rat and we better all beware of what is going on these days on progressive sites..I am not paranoid but we have all seen the power and horrendous acts of Rover!!!! Beware of the DailyHowler too......
Why did he need to go SO FAR OUT to call out Josh and try an belittle him and his work..Yes Josh overstated things and twisted..State that and move on..but to spend pages and thousands of words on an article against Josh who was posting and exposing shenanigans about a KNOWN Rove plant like Roberts on a progressive site is SUSPICIOUS to say the least!!

[Kelvin Mace]

12. Because

Why did he need to go SO FAR OUT to call out Josh and try an belittle him and his work...

Because that is his style. He treats other reporters the same way. It is not the purpose of DH to point out what the reporter got right, it is the to point out what they got wrong.

He did his job.

but to spend pages and thousands of words on an article against Josh who was posting and exposing shenanigans about a KNOWN Rove plant like Roberts on a progressive site is SUSPICIOUS to say the least!!

Really? What do you suspect him of? As I am agreeing with DH, am I now a suspect? :)

Sometimes a critic is just a critic.

Get caught making a mistake is never pleasant, especially when you get handed your ass publicly. It's happened to me a few times and it makes me mad, but ultumately it is MY responsibility.

I can deny the error, make excuses for the error, attack the person pointing out the error, or admit the error and apologize.

Which will give me greater credibility?

[BlueWolff]

13. "AND WHY"

"Because that is his style. He treats other reporters the same way. It is not the purpose of DH to point out what the reporter got right, it is the to point out what they got wrong."

DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT BECAUSE IT IS HIS STYLE.....NOT TO ME!!!
HE IS A PRETEND PROGRESSIVE......NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS!!

"He did his job."

OH SO THAT MAKES HIS SMEAR JOB ON A PROGRESSIVE WHO BASICALLY HAD ALL THE INFORMATION CORRECT ...HIS JOB...N O T T O M E !!

"Really? What do you suspect him of? As I am agreeing with DH, am I now a suspect?"

I SUSPECT HIM OF BEING DISHONEST AND BITTER...AND WHY ... BECAUSE HE DIDN'T USE THE WHOLE POST...BUT SNIPPED FOR HIS CONVENIENCE AND SO HE COULD RANT....AS FOR YOU, I DON'T KNOW YOUR WORK, DON'T CARE TO KNOW IT, AND ....HAVE A BALL ....AGREE WITH HIM..IT'S A FREE COUNTRY FOR NOW!!

[Kelvin Mace]

14. He is a progressive interested in the truth

I have followed Sommersby since he went online.

OH SO THAT MAKES HIS SMEAR JOB ON A PROGRESSIVE WHO BASICALLY HAD ALL THE INFORMATION CORRECT ...HIS JOB...N O T T O M E !!

He did not SMEAR anyone. His points were factually correct.

I SUSPECT HIM OF BEING DISHONEST AND BITTER...AND WHY ... BECAUSE HE DIDN'T USE THE WHOLE POST...BUT SNIPPED FOR HIS CONVENIENCE AND SO HE COULD RANT....AS FOR YOU, I DON'T KNOW YOUR WORK, DON'T CARE TO KNOW IT, AND ....HAVE A BALL ....AGREE WITH HIM..IT'S A FREE COUNTRY FOR NOW!!

And how long have you read him?

I don't think you are interested in hearing any view that doesn't agree with yours. Sorry feel the nbeed to scream to make your point.

[BlueWolff]

15. First of all you don't know me!

I have only read his smear jobs of progressives.....Makes me very suspicious...By the way I sent him an email with my views ...before I posted my response on this forum. I am actually a very open person interested in many views....NOW......If he had issues with Josh he should have emailed him..to express his views before his attention getting smear job....It doesn't take long to sniff an agenda from someones writings....Howler has an agenda that is def. not progressive..TO ME...just my opinion...I think it is you who have a problem that I don't agree with you...I frankly don't care that you don't agree with me....

[Kelvin Mace]

16. I am not concerned if you know me, like me

or anything else.

Sommersby writes 5 columns a week and I would say that 96%+ of his writing attacks the Right.

To call his actions "suspicious" because he occasionally writes something you don't like is a bit much.

Your claim that DH has "an agenda that is def. not progressive" is not supported by his record.

[BlueWolff]

18. DH is a jealous SMEAR MERCHANT

Plain and simple...read the post about his smearing of Wilson...He has as much a progressive agenda as Judith Miller......He is jealous and looking to be talked about...That's it...Read the smear merchant if you like.....My concern is not about you......it is about So-called progressive SMEAR MERCHANTS like DailyHowler...that is why I am posting and writing emails to let REAL progressives know to keep a look out and not support Howler and to keep a look out for his smearing of progressives and what that might mean...! Just my opinion..Don't like it...Cool...move on and don't read the post....

[Kelvin Mace]

19. The VAST majority of Sommersby's writing

attacks conservative writers, Vichy Democrats and toadying reporters. To call him a "smear merchant" over the few liberals he criticizes is simply spurious.

By this criteria, Matt Drudge is a flaming liberal because he attacks conservatives at the same rate that Sommersby attacks liberals.

By your criteria, 3/4's of DU are anti-progressive because they have criticized various liberals at various times (Dean, Byrd, Jon Stewart, etc).

[BlueWolff]

20. You love missing the point like DailyHowler..Spurious ..LMAO

To come onto DU and criticize a democrat or progressive is one thing...this site is about various opinions and healthy debate...That is good...DailyHowler wrote a biased incomplete SMEAR about Josh...and had his operatives plant it all over the internet....I would say that is what is spurious!!!!As I stated I appreciate various views and debate...BUT...I smell a rat on the one.....Bringing up Matt Drudge ia a joke..I won't even address that one...LOL

[Kelvin Mace]

21. You throw around a lot of words

like "smear" "operatives", and "biased".

Sommersby's criticism of Josh's article is factually correct.

Sommersby's body of work is OVERWHELMINGLY critical of conservatives. This is obvious to ANYONE who bothers to look at DH for more than a few weeks.

The fact that he takes the occasional liberal to task seems to erase anything else he has done in your mind.

What evidence do you have that he "had his operatives plant it all over the internet"? A check of the page link in Technorati finds FIVE links to the page. This is "all over the internet"?

http://www.technorati.com/search/dailyhowler.com/dh072605.shtml

Hardly much of a smear campaign. Sommersby should fire his "operatives".

And the Drudge comparison you laugh off is quite legitimate. Drudge attacks NeoCons at the about the same frequency as Sommersby attacks liberals. By YOUR definition, Drudge is a liberal.

[BlueWolff]

22. Your investment in this is quite suspicious too!

How about you throwing around words like "SPURIOUS" LMAO!!!!DailyHowlers " S M E A R " is not totally factually correct because he left out information that was pertinent to the points that Josh was making. While I agree Josh should have presented certain claims as his opinion, to write a few thousand word SMEAR and have Operatives plant the article on various progressive and conservative websites is reprehensible.(I wasn't talking about his links..Reading Comprehension again) As for Drudge, I laugh it off because any intelligent person knows that slime bucket isn't even worth 1 pixel.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Ah, I see,

I am part of the "conspiracy".

You again make the claim that had his "operatives" plant the article, but offer NO proof.

I provided a link to Technorati showing the story had FIVE links in the Blogsephere, but you don't address that.

You then cast aspersions on my motives.

Cool. Good day and have a nice life.

[BlueWolff]

25. You too!

If you think I am going to link all the sites you are wrong....Go find out for yourself if you want to know that kind of detail. Obviously you went to the trouble to link technorati. As for your motives, I don't have a clue what they are....I used the word suspicious...YOU..used conspiracy....Guilty are you? Not important to me. Now you have a good day and nice life. Let's hope that other self proclaimed Progressives like DailyHowler don't use Republican smear tactics on their own. It is like a comodo dragon male who eats its own!!!!!

[Hamlette]

17. I think DH is pissed because his smear of Wilson got challenged

with the WashintonPost (?) article that said Iraq was trying to buy uranium but on the same page it issued a correction and said they meant Iran, not Iraq. That's a big oops.

DH didn't NOT read the correction or intentionally misrepresented (?) what the article said claiming Wilson was wrong because Iraq was trying to buy uranium. DH did a number on Wilson and DailyKos caught that inaccuracy. TPM said "good catch" and linked to DailyKos.

This is why the left isn't as powerful as the right. We fight amongst ourselves.

I too was a DH reader but got pissed about his trashing Wilson, I though unfairly. I also stopped going to TPM as often when he was stuck on Duke. I wasn't that interested. I'm glad someone was going after him (and apprarently got him) but it wasn't my bag.

[lateo]

23. Bingo!

This is payback by the Howler.

Sad really.

[BlueWolff]

26. It really is sad

Like I said to the other poster...DailyHowler is like a male comodo dragon that eats its own!