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Irresponsible: confessions of an avowed Dean blowhard

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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:06 PM
Original message
Irresponsible: confessions of an avowed Dean blowhard
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 08:07 PM by angka
Over the course of several heated threads, I have had the pleasure of debating many types of people, from the insightful to the (surprisingly) inane.

A particularly lengthy exchange with a certain individual got me to thinking about the nature of compromise, and the relative weight of larger objectives. Clear thinking on this subject has helped me rethink some things. You might or might not agree.

I, like Howard Dean, am not taking a sufficiently nuanced approach in judging some of the present Democratic presidential candidates. I recognize that all these men are, on the whole, decent—center to left. I may despise Lieberman, for example, for his collusion with Bush on foreign and security policy, while remembering somewhere in the back of my mind that he usually votes the way i would on many other issues. The same story would apply for me to Kerry, Edwards and even Larouchelike-predictable candidate Dick Gephardt. They do their job for the party, which largely shares its stated agenda with me.

But i have a major problem with what has happened to this country since 9/11. I told my wife on that day, right after the second tower fell, that the only thing worse than what was happening then was what would happen next to liberals in this country. It's been worse than I could have imagined. The left's retreat from a huge position of strength, the massive and almost immediate blitz on freedom, passed by these democrats, followed by a crushing electoral defeat in 2002. Because they wouldn't challenge the president. Unbelievably, it took the present sweeping national outrage—barely still covered up by the media—over the Iraq war to convince these guys that well, yes, maybe the people might actually back them up.

This is why I enjoy saying the name 'Al Gore' in presidential threads these days. Here's mud in your appeasing eye—you know, the appeasment which began when the Democrats decided to let Bush have his fraudulent victory in 2000. The only thing i enjoy more is how much these uncomfortable truths seem to piss people off. I know he's not running.

It is vital to understand that I am referring to four, maybe five specific presidential candidates. Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, Gephardt, and Graham (he still gets the asterisk*, although i'm really not sure why).

But here's what's most important: I will still vote for any of these men if they are nominated. Anybody who tells you they're ready to go third party if their specific boy doesn't get the nod is a fool. This is not the time for progressives to entertain silly, fractious notions like voting Green.

Additionally, the more I think about Dean (and myself) needlessly running down candidates with over-generalized demagoguery, the more I recognize the self-serving folly of this practice. Howard Dean's claims about these Democrats (for example) supporting Bush's pillaging tax cuts are incorrect and not warranted. Dean's comments about his supporters being 'non-transferable' are irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the Party. Despite this character flaw, which is like my own—a tendency to get really pissed off about equivocation, I still (of course) enthusiastically back him for President.

All of these Democratic candidates have fought for issues that each of us as individuals hold hear. The collective power of our imperfect Democratic Party is nevertheless the only thing holding back the New Right's horrific vision of our future; and that includes these four (or five) career public servants. I do believe, however, that Dean (and myself) are perfectly justified in taking these men to task for key ways in which they aided and abetted war abroad and tyranny at home. But i cannot rationally dismiss the fact that if my first choice does not get the nomination, such imprecise past rhetoric can only serve as a tool for our mutual enemy.
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. self-serving kick
it's what the world's all about you know.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for saying that. I have been worried that a lot of Dean
supporters might do that also...
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. GREAT post!
Let's take BACK our right to self-governance in 2004! ABB! :)
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Cappurr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great post
Edited on Sat Sep-27-03 08:44 PM by Cappurr
And I think a lot of us have been suffering from a kind of post traumatic stress syndrome....since the stolen election, long before 9/ll. 9/ll made the horror all the worse of course.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Agreed.
Your point is well-taken. I, too, feel disappointed in the Dems who allowed themselves to be taken in by the bushies and their LIES - at the time when WE, HERE, and elsewhere in the anti-war movement, had seen, read, heard, and researched sufficiently to recognize a lousy deal when we were offered one. They should have been first in line to denounce this and SHOW SOME SPINE. Instead they caved like nobody's business. They fell all over themselves trying to prove themselves patriotic. It was shameful. The should have known better. What the hell was the matter with them? If WE knew it was bad, certainly they were privvy to much more of the intelligence that was contradicting the White House blather. Shouldn't they have known? But no. They chose to cave and be cowards for fear of having their patriotism impugned. They should be ashamed of themselves now. And that's something I can't just brush off. If anything, Kerry especially should have been out there making a BIG noise about this. After all, he has the credibility as a decorated Vietnam VETERAN who saw combat, and he could have made MUCH more use of that reputation and those credentials than he did. He was uniquely positioned to do so. And he didn't.

Like you, I WILL indeed vote for whomever is the nominee. But I have my preference, and it's Dean. He was out there, unafraid to stick his neck out and denounce the war when all the polls were telling him, too, that it wasn't the politically correct thing to do. That's one of the main reasons why he has my support.
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. agreed
i will not accept this feeble argument that they were duped. it's an obvious cop-out.
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Also agree
Some people are turned off by Dean's anger. I am relieved, quite frankly, that someone is out there that is as angry as I am about the Dems hiding out, afraid of being painted 'unpatriotic'. That's what initially drew me to Dean. The more I looked at him, blunders and all, the more I saw a guy who is standing up for what I believe in. And he's not doing it quietly, polling the public to see what will turn them on. He speaks out aggressively against the Bush machine, calling out names and speaking the plain truth about what they are doing.

Today, that doesn't seem like such a big deal, cuz everyone is doing it. But we shouldn't forget that it was Dean and DK who weren't afraid of being outspoken when it was 'unpatriotic' to do so. Today, we can all speak out against this war and the lies told to us regarding it without being labeled as a traitor or unamerican because of those few brave individuals who spoke out on our behalf.

I can easily forgive Dean, and all the candidates for that matter, a few screw-ups along the way while they campaign. They are human, and are learning as they go. But it's much much harder to forgive those who had the power to stop Bush, or at least try to, but chose instead to ride the political wave of patriotism in order to get re-elected.
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artr2 Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. Their called Corporate Democrats
They don't represent the Democratic Party because thay have taken so much money from big business that now they have to kiss their corporate masters ASS on command now. It's time to get them out of there.
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artr2 Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Their called Corporate Democrats
They don't represent the Democratic Party because thay have taken so much money from big business that now they have to kiss their corporate masters ASS on command now. It's time to get them out of there.
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. AM bump
maybe if i was being more of a dick about this. i wonder...
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. But i have a major problem with what has happened to this country since 9/
"This is not the time for progressives to entertain silly, fractious notions like voting Green."

Yeah silly notions like actually changing things. Instead we will continue the push rightward with our easier to swallow "lesser of two evils"(tm) candidate. Nice and fuzzy on the outside more of the same on the inside.

TWL
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. well you can't please everybody.
but before you accuse me of 'pushing rightward,' please click here or here, where you'll see me making much the same point.

fucked if i do fucked if i don't, right? you're convincing me even more that my ideological hard line may be folly...
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nice post, but you're not a blowhard.
Loudmouth troublemaker, maybe, but what kind of a drab existence would we have without a few of them?

That was a wonderful post, and the kind of thing a freeper would laugh derisively at. That's the point. A little self-questioning, thinking and feeling are the stuff of life, and that which makes one an engaged member of society.

Hey, it's still shopping season; we should be rattling the packages and squeezing the melons (and NO, I don't mean Carol; that's just a cheap yuk I couldn't resist...) right now. Now's not the time to be standing in the check-out line sneering at the other person's pathetic choice; we should be cruising the aisles and looking at the merchandise. Ya might even try a sample from the demo person in the back of the store, too. Oh, and while you're at it, it's always a good idea to ask the other shoppers what they know about the various models as well.

It's a fine line: we need to find the person who's best for the world, best for ourselves individually and has the best trade-off of viability against the sea of hate that is the right. That's not easy.

Your post serves a great function here, so thanks for taking the time.
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. thanks, but
it's apparently not controversial or mean-spirited enough to avoid sinking like a stone.

which is really really funny when you consider how many people here lament the current invective norm. everybody's a sucker for a good conflict, eh?
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. anger sells; just look at the media
I've railed against this many times here, especially when certain people like to clog the board with multiple thread-startings within a day. Some of the better threads I've ever seen have died like a dog or taken days limping along to finally come into their own.

"Nobody ever lost a nickel underestimating the American taste."
--P.T. Barnum
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. i think you get
different crowds here at different times of day. what a fascinating research concept...
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TexasEditor Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. During the Florida Recount in 2000
It was reported that Daschle and Gephardt were OK with a Bush win, because they felt if he was President, they'd have a good chance at taking control of the Senate and House.

The last elected president of the United States is AL GORE, and I will never get over what happened.
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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bump
I think that the candidate who pursue the most aggressive, cogent campaign against *the Bush administration* prevails in the end.

That's the only way we'll take them down.
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. nice threads finish last bump
this silence is fairly profound, don't you think?
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Pure merit bump!
Sanity reigns! :)
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. grr
:kick:
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
23. Good post.
I think you make alot of sense. I will kick it.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
24. Wonderful wonderful wonderful post
Thank you.
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. aw, shucks, will.
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 01:05 PM by angka
gimme a hug. one blowhard to another.

i'm proud to be on the same team as you.
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