An open letter to Hillary Clinton

[Melodybe]

Fuck you Hillary! And don't anyone come our here and tell me to stop attacking democrats. I BELIEVED Hillary when she said there was a right wing conspiracy. I liked her when she wanted to get every American health care. I felt sorry for her and Bill during the impeachment hearings. And what did it get me?

I'll tell you what it got me, it got me NAFTA and the Telecommunications Act. People were so sick of hearing about Bill Clinton in 2000 that Al Gore only won by a little bit. It got me the Help America Vote Act, which will ensure electronic voting for all, and republicans wins until there is an armed revolution. It got me the Patriot Act. It got me the Iraq War. It got me 8 fucking years of the closest thing to Hitler that this century will allow. It got me people being tortured in the name of MY country. It got me children in Iraqi jails being anally raped, while their parents watched, in the hope that the parents would be so upset that they would tell some Halliburton goons who was going to bomb the some oil pipe. It got me, Karl Rove, a traitor with his own office in the fucking WH. It got the interests rates on all my credit cards doubled. It got me five million more homeless people here in the USA to worry about. It got me high property taxes, so rich people can buy new boats. It got me gas prices and Wal-Mart. It might get me an asshole that hates women and their right to choose on the Supreme Court.

It got me a lot of things but the thing that it got me the most was fucking sick and tired of "democrats" that sell out the American people at every turn. Fuck you Hillary! Just because I am informed does not me that I am far-left. Fuck you for being surprised that the bloggers are pissed at you. Literally Hil, who the fuck do you think worked all of last year to get democrats elected? Let me tell you, it was those that hate this administration the most. You call us the "far-left" but we're the ones paying attention to all the bullshit that you and this foul maladministration are throwing our way and calling anti-American!!!

FUCK YOU HILLARY! I've spent thousands of my own $'s. I've volunteered thousands of hours of time telling people the truth in the hopes of making the approval ratings of shithead traitors like you go up.

Why because I love my country, I love the constitution, but most of all I love my children and this is the world that they are going to be growing up in. You are suppose to be the fucking opposition party! You are suppose to be representing ME and the millions of other people that knew this war was a lie, that knew this election was a lie, that knew that every fucking word on the news channels that your husband helped to destroy were fucking lies.


Screw you Hillary! Why don't you have another glass of sherry with Rupert Murdoch, while your husband blows W, and don't forget to ban Grand Theft Auto while you're at it.

ARRRG!!!!!

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[eleny]

1. Thank you, Melodybe

You outdid Mike Malloy. Now I need a tissue. :cry:

[Melodybe]

10. I forgot to thank Hillary for voting for the Ominbus spending bill last

year that gave millions of dollars to the New Freedom Commission and Teen Screen, so that when my kids go to public school I have to worry about them being tested for mental illness and possibly put on anti-psychotic drugs. Oh yeah, 2 mil also went to the much needed presidental yacht!

FUCK YOU HILLARY!!! and every DINO just like you.

[mtnester]

76. THAT vote of hers cost her MY Vote

period...end of message

[rawtribe]

2. Well said.

:bounce:
:applause:
:woohoo:

[Tux]

3. Hear hear!

Time to create Liberalism 2.0 and go on. I think Dems can do better but most political philosophies are too old. Liberalism and conservatism are old and tired. Libertarism is mixed since some want to give more power to corporations while others want us to have more freedom which confuses people.
We need an alternative.

[Carolab]

4. Amen. You forgot it got the Social Security surplus looted as well!!!

Not to mention all of the other taxpayer dollars these thieves took from us!

And after her husband MADE US pay more in so we'd make SURE our retirement money was there!

DOUBLE AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Yeah, like that will help

What do you want to do -- get Hillary to see the light, or just throw a fit?

And, what, over Grand Theft Auto? The latest piece of printed birdcage linings from the Democratic Leadership Council? Something she said for the edification of the folks back home in New York State?

The DLC gets things done. We don't. They're all about being effective; we're all about being angry. That's why the DLC wins. And they will continue to win until we learn those lessons.

It certainly isn't about giving up those things we believe in. But screaming fits are no more a part of being progressive than setting ourselves on fire. Leave the incandescent rage for the right-wing barstool patriots and Limbaugh evangelists.

First order of business: How to radicalize the DLC. Right after we all compose ourselves and decide what we really want -- what we're willing to forgo being outraged over to get accomplished. Because if we can't capture even a handful of DLC members, we might as well pack it in and go home.

--p!

[Melodybe]

7. Whatever, I WORKED MY ASS OFF FOR THESE PEOPLE!!!

I'm not sure what you did last year, but let me tell you I worked really fucking hard. I've registered HUNDREDS of voters, I organized concerts, I held house parties, I still do a democratic table on the 10th most conservative campus in the coutry, I've given money, I've writter LTTE, I've worked phone banks, I'm organizing the millions against the media marches, I DID A LOT! I STILL DO A LOT!

Maybe I would like just a crumb here or there of something honest and good coming out of the DLC. Hillary could help take these assholes out, she is not doing it, she is helping them destroy this country in the name of corporations and rich people, FUCK HER!

If she's a democrat, than I am now officially an independant.

[Dogmudgeon]

26. The Hillary thing ain't nothin'

Formerly entitled "So, you'll throw it all away over your disappointment with HRC?"

That would make no sense at all.

Hillary's current moments of weakness are inconsequential. Your own contributions are the things that are real. Don't throw them away because Hillary needs to generate some street cred with her puritan voters back home.

You put hundreds of hours, maybe thousands, into organizing, and as soon as some politician pisses you off, you're ready to bolt? Say it ain't so! Politics isn't some short-term thing, it's a life-long commitment. There is also a major chance of failure, as we've all found out three times since 2000. And chances are, you know all of that.

In addition, there is still a lot of intra-party politicking to be done. For all the griping around here about the DLC, I have seen NO effort expended on trying to reach these people. They may be delusional, but they're not traitorous. They also have a better track record of reading their mail than the Republicans. And they need for more people to work on changing their depressed minds than just Howard Dean.

As for the crumbs, you have a right to -- and you ought to -- find a few ways to make your political involvement more sustaining. Maybe to get a better job, doing something you like, such as organizing. There is no shame to taking political money when you've earned it fairly and worked according to your beliefs. And I know you're not tooling around the Gulf Coast and Mississippi Delta in a luxury car, being hand-fed caviar on water crackers by your Chippendale manservant.

Now, Hillary has a particular balancing act to do. First, she is accountable to the voters of New York, no matter how high her national visibility may be. Pandering, I'm afraid, is always part of the job, and even the "Good Guys" do it, too.

She is going to make herself look as conservative as possible because the GOP still promotes her as being a fetus-sacrificing high priestess of Wicca and the Feminist conspiracy, a cigar-smoking porn-tatooed lesbian dominatrix man-hater, a member of the Communist Party in exile, everybody's hated fourth-grade teacher who lived only to humiliate and punish children, and a space vampire intent on depopulating the Earth by means of Environmentalism.

Her actual conservative actions DO bear watching and deserve (demand) feedback -- but a string of rants and expletives is utterly ineffective. This struggle ought to be for salvation of the errant political soul, not for the hellfire. (I'm sure you know who we should save the hellfire for! :) )

Hillary's dark night of the soul need not be yours.

It is easy to become discouraged without positive feedback, the knowledge that our actions have beneficial consequences. But they do, and your work to promote progressivism in the Deep South is certainly critical. In twenty years, people will remember you as that enthusiastic woman at the Democratic Party table who gave them a handful of literature on, for instance, the local candidate who became president. No one in the state Democratic Party will be able to recall a time you weren't around. The results of your work will become more and more visible with every successive election and every new political memoir.

Perhaps, too, you will be remembered as the southern grassroots Democratic organizer who was a key factor in turning the whole phalanx of Red States around -- as well as Hillary Clinton and many of her colleagues in their period of despair, lost faith, and surrender.

The frustrating thing about the future is that while we can create it, we can never see it. We're all blind artists in a way. There's even a biblical example -- Moses not making it to the Promised Land.

Well, a lot of the cliches about blind people and vision are right. Keep following that vision, even if you can't see it, even if you never get to see it. If you've done even one-tenth of the work you said you did (and I don't doubt it at all), you've activated a political fault line by yourself, and you've started a small revolution in your part of the world. Turning the DLC into a progressive organization ought to be small peanuts. If you'll notice, the Red states are not quite as Red as they were in 2000. Democrats and other, newer varieties of progressives will win elections again. The only thing in doubt about that reality is the date it will happen. But whenever it does happen, you will have made it happen.

(I have no doubt you'll still be alive when it does happen. Just don't go and die on us all in the next four or eight years or so. A lot of minds are being changed these days. Some of that is your work, paying off, coming to fruition.)

And, in light of your grandfather's work, organizers like you won't just be helpful in the coming years, they'll be necessary to keep America alive and as many of her people as safe as possible. The seas may churn to a halt and the ice may lock half of the continent away, but nothing can stop a dedicated hard-head with a vision.

And even Hillary may learn that.

--p!

[Melodybe]

27. No I'll never stop working for the cause, I just start bashing Hillary

along with the nazis while I do it.

That's all, I just wanted to tell Hillary to fuck off, I did, back to work.

:)

[Dogmudgeon]

30. No doubting it ...

You'll prevail.

We'll prevail.

The struggle has been beyond difficult. It will continue to be a crushing burden that we will, none the less, shoulder.

The rewards will be greater than we can imagine.

--p!

[truth2power]

59. An articulate post, Pigwidgeon. But...

Sorry to nit-pick here, but you said, "She <Hillary> is going to make herself look as conservative as possible because the GOP still promotes her as being...".

Problem is, I believe it's true, what someone said, that if people have a choice between voting for a real Republican or a fake Republican, they'll vote for the real one every time.

So, what precisely, is Hillary's looking more conservative going to accomplish? Is she really going to pull those who are even center right to our side? IMO, no. So we have to put up with yet another person who is trying to be, dare I say it, more Republican.

I wish there were more understanding on this board for those of us who have examined our consciences and just say, ”Enough!” There are many things that are important in trying to sort through the mess we find ourselves in. My conscience is one of those important things. And every day I feel that I'm being asked to violate my moral and ethical compass. And it’s eating away at me.

I’ve been a registered Democrat for over 40 years, but I’m finding it increasingly difficult to find a Democrat I can really get behind. I live in Paul Hackett’s district. I understand his position on Iraq to be that we should continue to train the Iraqi security forces, and eventually they will get it “right” and we can leave. I have an honest question. How is this different from what we did in Vietnam? And how are the results going to be different?


It goes without saying that I would never vote for Jean Schmidt. She is a RW ass-kisser. (Surprise) You can talk all you want to about voting on single issues, but I know that when I vote for Paul Hackett, among all the other good things about him there is the knowledge the I WILL BE COMPLICIT IN THE DEATHS OF MORE INNOCENT IRAQIS IN A DAMNABLE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION.

There’s no way around that. For some, I guess I should just forget about morals or ethics and engage in realpolitik. Well, I’m sick of this! I want something I can feel good about, where I don’t feel like I’m compromising my principles.

Why is it that we bash Bush supporters for supporting him no matter what? We call them sheep, brain-dead tools etc. (And I concur). But we're expected to support Democrats no matter what. What is the difference?

edit> tweaking subject line.

[rawtribe]

8. If DU doesn't take

on the DLC who will. :shrug:

Maybe we should just cry uncle and give the keys to the country to Halliburton.

[katinmn]

11. The DLC is about being "effective?"

HAHAHA!

Yeah. So effecive we're stuck with junior another 3-1/2 years! But what do they care? They are all members of the same DC country club. They make fun of people like us.

[fooj]

16. What, exactly, has the DLC done?

All I see is a group of elitists stroking each other. I, for one, would like to know what makes it ok for the repubs to be perpetually outraged. IMO, the repubs have been outraged for over 10 years and they are still outraged! They practically OWN D.C. and they still find things to be "outraged" about. That is where MY rage comes from. It comes from THEIR rage.

Why should we be "capturing" DLC members? Are you suggesting that an entire political party should concentrate on "wooing" the DLC? Screw that. IMO, you're either DNC or you're not. Period. This isn't all-you-can-eat buffet night! Pick your item of CHOICE and pay the bill. To me, it's as basic as that.

Do you know how many people would hear TRUTH if old Hillary would take a stand and really do something patriotic! Think of all of the people she would/could reach? Was she at a town hall meeting this weekend re: the DSM/Traitorgate? Has she spoken out against treasonous behavior in OUR HOUSE? Did she speak out against The Patriot Act? I could go on and on. She is what she is today because of the DNC. How soon she forgets. The DLC didn't put her husband at 1600 Pennsylvania. The DNC did. The DLC hasn't produced any REAL LEADERS so why feel the need to "emulate" that? Democrats represent INCLUSION, right? Where's the solidarity? Where's the loyalty?


I'm sick to death of hearing how successful the DLC is. If the DLC gave a shit about this country they'd be working TOGETHER with us to expose these evil, maniacal madmen--not taking care of their own, personal interests. The HUGE banner with the letters DLC is a slap in the face to all of the people who have worked hard to get her and her husband where they are today. It's not right. It's just not right.

:banghead:

[podnoi]

17. Change the DLC? Change company sponsorship-never happen

That is like saying you are going to make the oil and gas industry altruistic. They just can't do it. These folks drank the cool aid. They are not the friend of the people. They are just kinder/gentler workslave ownership class. Don't folks get it?

[Melodybe]

18. Obviously not enough people here even get it.

[Carolab]

19. For God's sake, that's what the grassroots are for.

If WE support the candidates we want, the corporations don't have the power, WE do.

[Melodybe]

22. true that,but it is high time the DLC got their heads out of their asses

and quit wasting our time and money sabotaging us in the grassroots society though.

[Carolab]

25. Couldn't agree more, my dear.

I'm 100% with you in every way.

And I too worked my ass off last year and I'm STILL working...

[burythehatchet]

47. get Hillary to see the light

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Dogmudgeon]

52. I'm an optimist

There is nothing to be gained by writing someone off who disagrees with you/us. I'm not all that happy with Hillary's political trajectory, but I understand it. And I don't find it worth ranting over.

If we don't have enough confidence that we can recover our co-partisans who have gone wrong, what chance do we have of convincing the public that our political views are worthwhile? If we can't get at least half of the DLC back into the progressive camp by 2008, we don't have a chance.

It's time we decided to win the entire jackpot -- starting with our strays. Hillary's for practice -- the next two elections are for real.

--p!

[katinmn]

71. It sounds like you are suggesting re-education camp or therapy!

:rofl:
Sorry. That's how I read it.

[CWebster]

80. It isn't as if there isn't something to be angry about

But isn't it inteesting, again, the embrace of the Right's talking points: The Republicans accuse the Democrats of being angry or negative when they oppose Bush.

Well, you tell us, isn't there something to be angry about?

So much for: Where is the outrage?

[Hardrada]

6. Excellent post!

I wish Hillary a stint in the Inferno with the other traitors and renegades. She came out of the Sixties but was one of those super-opportunists much like Norm Coleman who was another Plastic Hippie.

[katinmn]

9. Yup. Hillary has purposefully distanced herself from the left

in order to get fundie votes.

So stupid.

[Sapphire Blue]

38. And those fundies'd love to see her get the nomination & lose the election

[rudeboy666]

12. you are such a drama queen

relax

[Melodybe]

14. When you have worked as many hours as I have then I'll listen. Till then

no I won't relax, I deserve a good rant now and then. Hillary just called me a far-left anti-American piece of shit, while her husband plays fucking golf with the anti-christ, I'm not gonna relax, not now not ever. But hey if you want to help me organize the millions against the media marches, I could always use some help.

[LibertyorDeath]

44. Don't waste your breath on 12

He uses that same fucking line all the fucking time.

What you didn't think we'd notice. :)

[me b zola]

13. The best rant I've heard in quite a while

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:



Yeah! What you said!!!:toast:

[jsamuel]

15. lol

while i understand and agree with a lot of the post I am willing to give her the 3 years to figure something out...

[rawtribe]

20. Gore didn't get it

when he picked Lieberman as his running mate. How many votes did that cost?

[Andromeda]

23. Well, actually...

I think other factors such as Nader, voter intimidation, Cruella DeVille and the SCOTUS were more responsible for Gore's loss than Lieberman was.

[rawtribe]

24. True

But Lieberman and the Clinton DLC record is why I voted for Nader!

[Dogmudgeon]

29. We all learned that time -- the hard way

There is still a steep learning curve ahead of most of us.

We ought to stop thinking of the DLC as something we can't change and ought to simply reject. The DLC is full of powerful, savvy, election-winning Democrats who have, for whatever reason, lost their faith. If we want to re-make America and give Progressive ideals a voice, restoring the idealism of as many of the DLC members as we can shouldn't pose much of a problem.

In fact, it will be vital.

We lash out at Hillary and "Joementum" when we're frustrated, but what does that get us? Nothing, nothing at all. We lose. These people were, at one time in their lives, optimistic and idealistic. Why not strike at the heart with a call to their dreams, rather than issue a killing blow?

Our real political enemies are easy to identify. If we instead treat the DLC like a flock of lost sheep, they will come home all the quicker. This doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't call them to account when they do dumb things, simply that we should regard them as friends who have gone astray.

Part of The Revolution includes keeping order and harmony in the ranks without enforcing conformity. Do we have the ability, the heart, the courage to take this approach with our own stray lambs and knuckle-headed sellouts?

I favor using the magic tricks for the redemption of the DLC -- and keeping and armor shiny and the battle engines in good repair for vanquishing the GOP.

--p!

[rawtribe]

33. I agree

And now is the time to lash out. Before it's to late. We tried anybody but * that wasn't enough. We need to fight for progressive principles. Not bow to corporate interests. We won't win until the beltway crowd understands meaning of opposition.

[Sapphire Blue]

39. Same here.

[Hubert Flottz]

45. Throw Bill Clinton's Miss-adventures into that mix, that sank ...

Al Gore in 2000. Loved the OP's rant!

Most life long democrats, that I talked to at the time, were really pissed off, because Bill Clinton was too selfish, to keep his hands to himself! GROPING is a republican trait! I've never groped a woman in my life, because I was taught to respect them! I never had to and never needed to grope! I have control over my guided muscle! Anyone who can't control their lust should be a registered republican like Arnold, anyway!

Bill Clinton is the main reason Bush is in office! The election in 2000 wouldn't have been close enough for Bush to steal, had Clinton been very smart! Bush is the one thing Bill Clinton does deserve the blame for! The White House Isn't A Fucking Whore House and democrats know that too! I've been a democrat all my life and Bubba's lack of self control PISSED ME OFF! Clinton Fucked the democratic party, the country and the world!

It wasn't the stampeding CLENIS that pissed me off though! It was the lack of fucking brains behind it. That lack of brains is apparent, by the facts that Clinton supports, NAFTA, GLOBALIZATION, THE WORLD BANK, The NEW WORLD ORDER, G8, IMF, WAR IN IRAQ and POPPY BUSH/MOON! Clinton and his wife are elitist imperialists and so does the DLC all seem to be.

I don't agree with the shit that the Reich wingers did to Clinton, before, or after, the shit about Monica came to light! I didn't agree with a man who was too fucking vain and dumb, to play it cool, WHEN HE KNEW...that the GOPers were out to nail his hide to the wall. On top of all that other shit, MONICA, WAS AS UGLY AS A GOAT'S ASS!

Clinton's wife has about as much chance of being nominated in 08 as Bush's pet Goat, because she echos the globalists line of bullshit, just like here husband. One must first win, at least some, primary elections, to win the nomination. We need leaders who will fight for ALL the people, not just the wealthy people who can donate $10,000 a fucking plate. We are going to need to clean house in the democratic party, or the voters never will be able to see a difference between the democrats and the republicons!

Fuck the DLC, Fuck single issue voters, Fuck Globalization at the cost of American jobs, Fuck GOPer Light, Fuck going with the flow, Fuck PC, Fuck goody two shoddiness, Fuck rolling over, Fuck waiting till next time, Fuck broken campaign promises, Fuck It!

Flame on!!!!!

[longship]

21. Kick

:kick:

[deacon]

28. These DC critters are in a bubble--they just don't get it-- they don't get

that it is not about moving left or left of center or towards the center. It's all about having a voice from the elected individual.

The dynamics have greatly changed since Bill was president- she is not getting that through her skull.

Obviously she is oblivious to the pulse of democrats. We need a voice and who gives us one, we will jump behind-- but that takes opening your mouth against the radical extremeists in charge at the moment-daily.

Who has the balls to take them on? That person will be rallied around.

Until then, they can raise all the money they want, showboat all they want and play all the status quo political games they want--but they are wasting time.

Boxer would get twice as many votes as she would at the moment, and so would Conyers if a presidential primary was held tomorrow.

Hillary, John Kerry and Feinstein etc. just don't get it.

[madeline_con]

31. Have you emailed it to Hill yet?

Do it Do it Do it...... :popcorn:

[Melodybe]

32. you think? Should I edit the curse words out, cause other wise I think

they'll just junk it.

[madeline_con]

34. Maybe a few less "Fuck you's"...

would at least get it read when it reaches its destination.

I'd definitely send it, though. It's great!

[Disturbed]

35. Send it minus the swearing because...

one of her staff will read the 1st sentence and file it in the trash.

Sorry to say but I feel that both Clintons are Repub Lites and will try to push the Dem party that way.

As always, I encourage all Progressive to join the Green Party and push for electoral change.

[NewJeffCT]

40. profanity laced rants will get trashed by a low level staffer

no matter how good or how justified it is.

[Sapphire Blue]

41. Send it just as it is... or better yet, include the link to this thread.

[phiddle]

51. Instead of "Fuck You"

try "Get Lost"

[mattclearing]

61. Yeah, cause that sums up the emotion perfectly.

:eyes:

[mattclearing]

62. No, keep them.

Hillary needs to know that at the rate she's going she'll need Diebold on her side in the primaries.

Fuck her with a baseball bat to infinity.

[rman]

36. You're not supposed to remember what politicians have said in the past.

"I BELIEVED Hillary when she said there was a right wing conspiracy."

Please do shorten your attention span.

[nicknameless]

37. Thank gawd! I thought this was going to be another "I love Hillary" thread

I feel the same way you do.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Melodybe for this much-needed rant!!!
:applause: :yourock: :toast: :yourock: :toast: :yourock: :applause:

[Dude_CalmDown]

42. Thank You.

I clicked on this thread thinking this was going to be some complimentary letter to Hillary with a few suggestions on changing her position on several issues. I thought to myself: "There's only 2 words I'd say to Hillary and if they're not the first two words of this letter then i'm going to have to say something." Turns out you used the same two words I would have used to start this letter. Thanks for starting this properly and for making the rest of it so eloquent.

[LibertyorDeath]

43. One of the Best Posts Ever on DU! bar none

Thank You Melodybe !

:toast:

Rec! & Save & email

[earth mom]

46. Excellent Rant! Thank You!

I've been saying that Hillary is nothing but a rethug for awhile now around here but never could have said it quite so eloquently.

I guess I missed part of the flap that prompted your post, but it sounds like Hillary is annoyed that we are posting/working against her? Well tough shit! When's the last time she represented the majority of the people in the democratic party???!!! I'm not talking about rich fat cats! Does the middle class, the working class or the poor even exist in her world?! Let's get REAL here, and call a spade a spade.

Yup, Hillary's a fucking rethug all right!

Fuck her!

'Nuff said!

[jhawk_tim]

48. I too can't stand Hillary

However, I don't understand one statement from your rant. The line:

"It got me high property taxes, so rich people can buy new boats."

I don't pay my property tax to the guy down the street that owns a coffee shop and can afford a new boat?

[katinmn]

49. Tax cuts for the wealthiest are being made up for by increased

property taxes and thousands of new fees.

Everyone pays for the pleasure of making Butch's base even richer.

[jhawk_tim]

54. Back to my example

Using your scenario, the guy with the coffee shop and new boat pays increased property tax on the coffee shop and boat therefore, the tax cut is a wash at best, probably a loss. I fail to see where my increased property tax load is benefiting my rich neighbor.

[katinmn]

56. I'm sorry for your intellectual limitations.

x(

[jhawk_tim]

64. Wow

I ask for clarification on your point. I provide my reasoning and logic for politely disagreeing with you and you respond by attacking my intellegence. It's no wonder we continue to lose elections. Instead of trying to make our point with facts and logic, we revert to 1rst grade sandbox mentality. Getting an adult to agree with your position takes something more than telling them that they are dumb if they don't blindly agree.

[mattclearing]

68. "It's no wonder we continue to lose elections."

This condescending to people has to stop.

People need to wake up. There are no longer free elections in this country.

When you look closer and see that the deck is stacked, perhaps you will realize that your understanding of American politics is based in fantasy.

[katinmn]

69. I know that you are refusing to see on purpose.

Normally I would apologize but you are intentionally avoiding reality. Not worth trying to explain to someone who is not listening.

[jhawk_tim]

73. No, I am not refusing to see on purpose

I want to understand which is why I asked the question. You have not given me any examples or shown me any logic on how my property tax ends up in the hands of my neighbor. I contend that in your original example, my neighbor is paying more property tax and realizing less overall tax savings than I am.

I am not fishing for an apology. I don't want one that is not deemed genuine. I will however, respectfully, state that my intellectual level is not as low as you were so quick to imply.

[katinmn]

74. "how my property tax ends up in the hands of my neighbor"

what are you talking about?

[Carolab]

75. We're "losing elections" because of election fraud.

In fact, WE'RE WINNING and they are CHEATING US.

[jonnyblitz]

50. great post!

:thumbsup:

[DemBeans]

53. well said...

Hillary demands "unity" to a pro-war, pro-corporate agenda so she can scurry around picking up big campaign contributions from the very industries that are screwing us daily. She mouths off about 'ceasefires' in front of the divisive and arrogant DLC, despite the fact that such a 'ceasefire' took place in 2004 and a hell of a lot of good it did us! Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

And she's shocked - shocked! that we don't fall in line.

On the issues that matter, Hillary sides with the warmongers and robber barons. And I should make peace with that? Screw it!

[movie_girl99]

55. that was an awesome rant!!!! n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. Well, Hillary doesn't like you either. You're "too liberal".

How dare you question her feminism just because she cuddles up to Roberts?

How dare you question her quest for peace when she calls for 100,000 more troops and refers to the "failed insurgency"?

How dare you question her sincere devotion to children just because she wants to send them to kill and die but gets the vapors when they see a breast?

You should be doing something useful. Like attacking Jane Fonda. Or, telling everyone that we should be grateful for Roberts because he isn't as bad as Jerry Falwell.

Tsk, tsk. You must look at her other qualities...they're around somewhere...Oh, yeah!..she's married to that guy who is regarded as "the best Republican president we've ever had".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. Well, Hillary doesn't like you either. You're "too liberal".

How dare you question her feminism just because she cuddles up to Roberts?

How dare you question her quest for peace when she calls for 100,000 more troops and refers to the "failed insurgency"?

How dare you question her sincere devotion to children just because she wants to send them to kill and die but gets the vapors when they see a breast?

You should be doing something useful. Like attacking Jane Fonda. Or, telling everyone that we should be grateful for Roberts because he isn't as bad as Jerry Falwell.

Tsk, tsk. You must look at her other qualities...they're around somewhere...Oh, yeah!..she's married to that guy who is regarded as "the best Republican president the Democrats ever had".

[mattclearing]

60. Greatest. Post. Ever.

Thank you for this.

[YOY]

63. Her cons outweigh her pros...but she is a master of spin

and the RWers call her a "liberal"

Thanks...I 99% agree.

[mattclearing]

65. No she isn't.

She sucks at spin. No one buys it.

[YOY]

66. We're not the mainstream

sadly. I'd venture to pick the brains of a suburbanite soccer mom on the topic.

[Beelzebud]

67. Amen! If they run Hillary in 2008, I'm voting 3rd party.

If the democrats can't find a better candidate than Hillary, they deserve to lose another election... I hate to say that, but it's the truth.

[ArkDem]

70. Two things....

How did your credit cards double in interest?

Ms. Clinton represents New York not Mississippi.

[Melodybe]

77. In the bankruptcy bill the credit cards were allowed to raise their

interest rates.

I meant she is suppose to represent me in that she is one of the most high profile democrats, not that she is my senator.

Either way I am just mad at her.

[ArkDem]

82. So they didn't double in interest. Any other over the top stuff in there?

[Melodybe]

83. That's not over the top, where have you been, there have been atleast 20

threads complaining about doubled interest rates.

I didn't make that up, I didn't make any of that up. Look around you'll find the links in the archives.

[mongo]

72. Anyone listen to hate radio? Hillary is touted as the 08 dem candidate

Know why? Because she doesn't have a chance in hell of winning an election. They have 12 years of taped statements do drudge up and use against her.

Look at the last primary. Dean was vilified (the screamer!), and Kerry became the darling of the media. The RW wanted him as a candidate. They had plenty of ammo against him, and used it well.

Hillary is fiercely hated by elements of both sides. She would make an excellent candidate to lose the 08 election.

We need an outsider folks. Anyone want to draft Bill Moyers?

[CWebster]

78. MORE

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0727-30.htm

[LibertyorDeath]

79. Fuck you Hillary!

:kick::kick::kick:

[Carolab]

81. My friend says you should send this rant to Mike Malloy!

He should read this on the air!!!

[Melodybe]

84. Don't know malloy's email but if anyone gives me a link, I'll gladly send

it.

[Carolab]

86. Here it is!

[e-mail]

[Ladyhawk]

90. Or Kathy's:

[e-mail]

[nicknameless]

87. Here ya go:

[e-mail]
FWIW, earlier this year, someone told me that this email address is the most reliable for getting emails to Mike.
Not sure why that would be, but that's what I was told.


Oh, and ... FUCK YOU, HILLARY!!!

[sweetheart]

85. Bill was a dick and a fucker

I've no agrument with that.

To paint Hillary with her husband's fuckups, is defeatist,
as much as i feel your frustration.

[Melodybe]

89. But when she goes on tv and rags on the news media for having no courage

and then completely refuses to acknowledge that the telecommunications act of 96 is responsible for the climate, then she can bite me.

Covering for Bill is no different and hurts us.

[Ladyhawk]

88. And the horse you rode in on, too.

[Generator]

91. Bravo

And I dunno but I used to be moderate..and I agree with everything you said. I dunno what happened besides 9/11 and lies about 9/11 and Iraq and lies about Iraq..with all the horror that entails... I hardly have time for all the economic rape she's been busy accomodating.

And we are in the higher income tax bracket. Me and my husband are the crowd she wants. HA. Home owning parents that always vote, pay their taxes (and this is for you Dolstein)haven't smoked dope since the 80's. (oh and Hil-my husband REALLY gets pissed when you talk of taking away the video games-the nerve of these p.c. liberals)

And I ask this again, is Hillary bat shit crazy or what? Has the thrill of no victory gone to her head? In what universe does she think she can be President? All this so she can rule the world? I laugh bitterly..she's just part of their plan..she's the foil. HA. She's either insane or really thinks she can go "mano a mano" with evil. Whadda think?

[Rainscents]

92. Great rant! I feel the same.