According to Josh, this CIA-WH story is gonna pop...

[ronzo]

check out his latest.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[bluestateguy]

1. We'll see..

So many of these upcoming bombshells always fizzle out after a one day run on page 26.

[ronzo]

2. A01

here's the link to the story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11208-2003Sep27.html

[Toucano]

4. You may be right

But pissing off the CIA is different than ruffling the White House Press Corp.

I can't wait to read the words "special prosecutor" in the paper everyday again!

[ronzo]

7. yeah, what was the caveat?

Scapegoat the CIA at your own peril, you dumb shit....

[knight_of_the_star]

34. Knowing the CIA

All sorts of stuff about Bush us probably going to surface during the General Election. I'm looking forward to that actually. It should be fun :).

[Sliverofhope]

6. This story will be on page A01

Is that the front page? Anyway, this looks delicious, although I'm pretty sure Bush will not be snared in this net.

[ConsAreLiars]

13. More like unexploded landmines

Sure the "cabal" channels (credit nitzi(sp?) for the term) and career-oriented "reporters" may take only brief notice of these past "bombshells" but they remain real. Part of the terrain, and they matter.

[TacticalPeek]

36. So very true.

The wise would treat all guns as loaded, even those not in plain view.

[FauxNewsBlues]

37. The Shocking Truth: Conspiracy

I just re-read Josh Marshall's post and he nails it. This third person, whomever they are, is comfortable in their anonymity after revealing that 2 staffers were involved, and they made 6 phone calls to 6 different journalists.

Think about that for a second folks. This "secret" is not so small, that the person who leaked to the Post would be instantly identified.
It's massive. Several people have to be aware of the lawbreaking, the law breaker's identity, and the 6 journalists they talked to before Novak went with it.

In the purest meaning of the word, it is a conspiracy. To be "conservative", I would have to guess that at least 5 people in the White House are involved/aware of what happened. The two leakers, and at least 3 others, because if the WP leaker was the only other in the know, or 1 of 2, their identity would be easy to grasp.

Again, this person felt confident in not being identified by revealing these facts. Therefore, it is common knowledge in the highest reaches of this administration that two officials broke the law.

This one will break if Congress does act. One of the non participants will roll if they are put under oath. Just throw a few darts at a West Wing directory and one of those people know who the criminals are.

[Dudley_DUright]

3. Since they shopped this around before Novak printed it,

nearly every journalist in DC must know who the 2 senior whitehouse officials are (Time Magazine must since they also printed the original story at the same time as Novak). Even if these two "senior" officials resign I think an investigation must go forward since we need to find out who authorized this in the first place (clearly it was not the act of a single individual acting without permission since two people were out there doing it).

[Toucano]

5. Special Prosecutor! Special Prosecutor!

I nominate Ted Kennedy to lead the charge.

[Tansy_Gold]

20. Is Ted Kennedy a lawyer?

I don't know, so I'm asking.

If he isn't, well, gee, Hillary Rodham Clinton is. So is William Jefferson Clinton. . . . . .

As they say, payback can be a real bitch.

:evilgrin:

[dkf]

9. You're right.

With two people out there, its not a lone wolf doing his own thing. I wonder how many people knew what was going on. Are they all complicit? How does this work?

[lanlady]

25. you're right

I think all of us will know their names next week. Too many others know.

The Wash Post adds the interesting detail that a Bush admin official wants to "out" the two because he/she feels it was a wrong thing to do.

[grasswire]

8. WP says

two top WH officials contacted six reporters and tried to stir up a story of nepotism on Wilson, as it was his wife who wanted him to go to Niger.

Is this a story of deep ignorance on the part of those two top WH officials? Is it possible they just wanted a nepotism story without realizing the crime in outing Plame?

Argh. No. It's not possible.

[TacticalPeek]

17. To be precise:

"as it was his wife who wanted him to go to Niger."

The article makes clear that this is the ALLEGATION of the leakers:

"Sources familiar with the conversations said the leakers' allegation was that Wilson had benefited from nepotism because the Niger mission had been his wife's idea."

I don't accept this and believe it is disinformation. To quote from the excellent TPM interview with Wilson:

"WilSON: First of all, the Novak allegation is very interesting. If I recall the article correctly, he flatly asserts my wife is a CIA operative. And then he quotes senior administration officials as saying that she was somehow responsible for sending me out there. Now, I think I mentioned to you earlier the context in which my trip was initially discussed, and I will tell you that at the meetings it was discussed, and at the meeting where it was proposed that I go out there, there was nobody at that meeting that I knew. There were a couple of people who came up and introduced themselves and said to me that they had been at other briefings I had given in the past on other issues, but I could not name any of them. I couldn't tell you who they are today--would pass them on the streets without recognizing them. So that's really--the decision-making process involved nobody that I knew."

I don't mean to be picky with you, grasswire. It is just so important to get this swirl of allegation, disinformation, etc. nailed down tight as one can. :)

[KittyWampus]

10. The Intelligence Community Released Damning Info Before

And Junior and his Coterie took some body blows...

They haven't released anything for a while...

I thing that the CIA knows how to play hardball and how to time releases...

If this blows on a Monday or Tuesday- Junior etc. could be REALLY unhappy.

[dkf]

11. Need a refresher course.

What is a senior administration official mean vs. top White House officials?

If Karl Rove is top White House official #1, who could be the other?

[TacticalPeek]

12. "who could be the other?"

It may be time for a White House Felon Pool.

Then maybe a Date of Resignation Pool?

:9

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. It used to be one official. Now it's two.

One official means Rove. Two officials means cover for Rove. Think about it.

[ronzo]

16. <cough>fleischer</cough>

eom ;)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Ergo the the old out-the-side-door shuffle for Liari?

Note: You really should have that cough looked at. May I suggest chicken soup?

[TacticalPeek]

30. I think it has always been "two", with only KKKarl's id hinted at.

But I think there will be more than two in the dock. This distinctly smells of conspiracy.

[RainDog]

33. Yes. Novak's original article said two

Rove has become prominent since Wilson was spoke in Seattle? a month or so ago.

Wilson since said, as was already noted, that Rove was a name for a mindset.

Josh Marshall has been great to read for this issue. He has the Wilson interview and has kept posting links to breaking stories since the initial CNBC article.

[Peachhead22]

19. Andy Card?

Could Card be the second guy? It doesn't get much higher than him. How 'bout Ari Fleisher? IIRC he still worked in the WH at the time. Naaaah. I doubt it.

My guess is it's someone who works for Cheney. Maybe Scooter Libby.
But wouldn't be a trip if it's one of Condi's top aides? Of all the people to break espionage laws. Imagine someone in the NSC?

[TacticalPeek]

23. I think Card is a more likely candidate for the person who talked

to the WP about the two leakers.

[jab105]

39. I agree....

bet the senior official was Card...he always seems to be torn about the administration...and the lies coming out of it...

[FauxNewsBlues]

15. This is major

I am less interested now in knowing who the 2 stooges are, but more interested in who talked to the Post. Somebody broke team discipline big time. Somebody high up who knew this crap was going on, and has had enough. This might start the dam bursting now that somebody has seriously fucked the white house from within.

[TacticalPeek]

18. Card?

:shrug:

[Sliverofhope]

24. I agree

Who's the one who broke the sacred team discipline. This is the real interesting story.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

21. Interesting...

In light of the fact that the guy who wrote the tell-all book on Chimpy(The suicided writer) said he got a lot of dirt from Rove.

Most interesting that trails lead back, don't you think?

[stevedeshazer]

22. U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Orrin G. Hatch, CHAIRMAN, UTAH
Patrick J. Leahy, RANKING DEMOCRATIC MEMBER, VERMONT

Charles E. Grassley, IOWA
Edward M. Kennedy, MASSACHUSETTS

Arlen Specter, PENNSYLVANIA
Joseph R. Biden, Jr., DELAWARE

Jon Kyl, ARIZONA
Herbert Kohl, WISCONSIN

Mike DeWine, OHIO
Dianne Feinstein, CALIFORNIA

Jeff Sessions, ALABAMA
Russell D. Feingold, WISCONSIN

Lindsey Graham, SOUTH CAROLINA
Charles E. Schumer, NEW YORK

Larry Craig, IDAHO
Richard J. Durbin, ILLINOIS

Saxby Chambliss, GEORGIA

John Edwards, NORTH CAROLINA
John Cornyn, TEXAS

It will be up to Leahy, Kennedy, Schumer, and perhaps John Edwards(!) to see this through if any traction is applied. Orrin Hatch and Arlen Specter are camera poseurs of the worst kind.

[never cry wolf]

28. Don't forget Durbin

He complained about this months ago and also said that he was personally being smeared once he brought it up.

[stevedeshazer]

40. Whoops

Cut him off somehow, thanks

[calimary]

29. I don't have phone numbers for everybody, BUT - HERE ARE SOME

Senators' info:

Ted Kennedy:

In Washington (202) 224 - 4543

In Boston (617) 565 = 3170


Dianne Feinstein:

In Washington (202) 224 - 3841

In L.A. (310) 914 - 7300


Richard Durbin:

In Washington (202) 224 - 2152

In Chicago (312) 353 - 4952


Charles Schumer:

In Washington (202) 224 - 6542

In NYC (212) 486 - 4430


Arlen Specter:

In Washington (202) 224 - 4254

In Philly (215) 597 - 7200


GUYS!!! This is ESSENTIAL, VITAL, CRITICAL!!!! These folks have to know we want answers! And they won't know unless they're nagged!

Here is a toll-free number for the Capitol Hill Switchboard:

1 (800) 648 - 3516 - they can switch you to anybody's office.

DO IT, FIRST THING MONDAY MORNING!!!

[TacticalPeek]

32. I think the Judiciary Committee role at this point

should be to keep an eye and pressure on Asscroft to do his job, and minimize any attempted shenanigans. I think it is crucial that the SP get convictions before any Congressional testimony could compromise the trials, a la Poindexter and North.

And for a Congressional inquiry, the Joint Intelligence Committee may be the logical venue, due to the nature of the matter, staff, security clearances, etc.
There is no rush. Slow is fast (slow is smooth, smooth is fast).

[TacticalPeek]

27. The inevitable Special Prosecutor will not be a pol, of course.

And I would not want them to be particularly partisan either, like faux-Senate candidate Starr.

It often turns out to be someone fairly unknown to the general public, just a higly competent lawyer, probably with prosecutorial experience. I could muse out some guesses, but would not want to jinx their possibilities.

Surprise us. It goes with the popcorn. :)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. The old boomerang.

Dems were investigated for leaks early in the administration.

Let's hope that payback is a bitch.

[TacticalPeek]

35. According to the article, that "early" investigation is on-going.

"The FBI is investigating members of the Senate for possibly leaking intercept information about Osama bin Laden."

Maybe it is caught in the David Kay report time-warp.

:shrug:

[AnnabelLee]

38. I wonder if Novak knew at the time

that he was being used. I wonder if he cares now. Probably not on both counts.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. I wonder how big my smile will be if

NoFacts ends up in prison. I'd venture to guess that it'd be pretty large.

[Patriot_Spear]

45. You're goddam right he knew...!

This situation really pisses me off- Novak, that arrogant bastards who waves the flag like he had a drummer and fyfe on either side of him, deliberately injures our national security by exposing a CIA agent for partisan reasons.

In another goddam era his traitorous ass would be swinging from a rope!

[DrBB]

41. My hope for this story

Okay, yeah, like to see Rove lead away in handcuffs, yup.

But even if not, even if it is never proved that Rove has committed something closely akin to treason, what I hope is established once and for all, in a broadly public way, is how far these guys are willing to go, to expose once and for all that they have no scruples, that they are vindictive, petty, shitty people.

Why? Because W's hardcore voters always come back to, "But geez, he's such a decent guy."

And this is not decent. This is not something decent people do. I think this one story as vastly more power to undermine W's base support than the yellowcake story itself or any of the other scandals that have come up and been quashed. This one goes to the heart of who W's supporters think he is and rips that heart right out.

Even if they can't muster the evidence to convict a particular person (Rove), the mere fact--the mere FACT--that W has undertaken NO internal investigation into who did this proves complicity. The more publicity the investigation gets, the more it undermines his credibility, however it turns out. This may not be the Story That Brings Him Down, but it is a major torpedo into the hull of the Bush Bismarck.

[SaintLouisBlues]

48. You're right, the media can really sink their dentures into this one

This story already has the SOTU lie for legs, add personalities like a distinguished diplomat and his undercover CIA agent wife, top WH officials and a storyline straight out of Hollywood (reminds me of
the Mission Impossible movie where the good guys are trying to prevent undercover agents from being outed).

The whores could have a field day with this one.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. So how the heck did Rove

or anyone else on the WH staff (except for maybe the NSC folks) know that Wilson's wife was CIA? I doubt if this is sort of thing would be common knowledge.

Did someone in the WH request his FBI file in order to find something to smear him or threaten him with? I wouldn't put it past Rove to do something like that but if W's political consultant or other staff is being allowed access to this type of info about people, something major is wrong here.

[DrBB]

44. Excellent point--lots to investigate here

All kinds of goodies in addition to just who dunnit. Collusion between the *admin and friendly agents in the CIA or FBI? That would be nice. I think it's called "conspiracy."

[Patriot_Spear]

46. Here's a letter to the Ed I sent to the WP and a few others on this...

Traditionally the US has left it up to its’ enemies to unmask American Intelligence agents; but once again the Bush* Administration has foraged into new territory by doing this work for the likes of Al Qaeda, in deliberately revealing Valerie Palme’s status as a CIA operative. Under normal circumstances this would be a stunning revelation- unfortunately for this misadministration, it’s merely par for the course.

Like a passenger trapped on a runaway elevator, I am constantly amazed that our nation has yet to hit bottom with the Bush* White House. However I must confess that I was not very surprised when Ambassador Wilson identified Karl Rove as the lawbreaker who exposed a covert US agent- patriotism is clearly second place to partisanship in the Rove/Bush* political playbook.

The CIA obviously believes a crime has been committed since they are turning the matter over to the Dept. of Justice, QED. The question now is, ‘what’s next’? Will Mitchell clear Nixon of wrongdoing? Oops, I meant- will Ashcroft clear the White House of revealing Palme’s status? Interestingly enough Attorney General John Mitchell, the convicted Watergate felon who misused the DOJ to advance President Nixon, does offer some words of wisdom for today; at the start of the Nixon presidency he declared, ''Watch what we do, not what we say.'' Applying Mitchell’s advice to the current administration, I have no doubts in predicting we’ll all breathe easier when John Ashcroft eventually declares Karl Rove innocent, shortly before pronouncing the true culprit to be Bill Clinton.

[redwitch]

47. if it actually does pop

the drip, drip, drip could soon become Niagara Falls!

[JNelson6563]

49. The Mayberry Machiavellis

The most fitting name fro this bunch of mooks that ever was. Evil with a tinge of stupidity.

May they all die a horrible death when it is their time.

Julie

[Mortenzen]

50. Hype hype hype

Like this is going to be the next Watergate.

[ima_sinnic]

52. say bye to your pals in the WH

Watergate is nothing compared to their atrocities

[DoYouEverWonder]

53. Outing a CIA agent

is a felony.

What part of that don't you understand?

[SaintLouisBlues]

54. High Treason in the Oval Office is hype?

Treason is a crime punishable by death, if I'm not mistaken.

It should be bigger than Watergate if we are talking about death penalties (obviously wouldn't EVER happen) and senior White House official in the same breath.

Nixon and his thugs were never accussed of anything that carries the legal consequences of treason, although if it goes that far I'm sure the neocons will weasel out of the most serious potential charges.

[Patriot_Spear]

55. You're kidding, right? Get a grip...

The right-hand man of a sitting pResident uses his borrowed Intelligence knowledge to persue a politcal vendetta against one of our countries covert agents and you call it hype?

Buddy, you don't have a clue as to how bad this is.

[bobthedrummer]

51. I hope Rove is one

he's toast then...

[charlie]

56. Ball's in **Ashcroft's** court

Y'know, the guy who most likely thinks protecting Dubya is preserving God's Will on Earth. I don't have high hopes.

[SaintLouisBlues]

57. Oh they'll try to schelch this alright

Public outrage will be neccessary to make this story the huge scandal it should be.

DU'ers need to help further the outrage by lobbying corporate media outlets starting right now.

Who has all the broadcast news email links handy?