The Republicans Passed CAFTA

[sandnsea]

I just thought I would remind you. If those 15 Dems had voted against it, they would have found 15 more to vote for it.

The Republicans. They are for CAFTA. Let's not forget that or give the masses one more reason to think "they're all the same."

They aren't.

The Republicans Passed CAFTA. TWO HUNDRED of them.

[Kevin Spidel]

1. sorry... love you ... but calling this B.S.

we worked HARD. a coaltion of nearly 15 groups and over 200,000 members all worked hard on the republicans. We won nearly 11 over. That was suppose to be the swing. We never thought the Dems woudl skrew up. As public citizen.

[sandnsea]

6. Oh nonsense

Of course you had to know you couldn't get every Democrat. Besides, that isn't the point. Remembering where to hang this bill is the point, and it's right square around the necks of Republicans. You'll never get people to care what Democrats say otherwise, why should they, if all politicians are the same?

[ugarte]

2. It passed by two votes

TWO votes. Just three Democrats could have stopped it.

[sandnsea]

4. You don't know politics

3 swing, and they persuade 3 more. They just hold it open longer, don't you remember the Medicare bill?

[jurassicpork]

7. 216-214, right?

All but one Democrat voted. There were eight Republicans who were absent. The Independent Nay told me right off that was Bernie Sanders. It was a hard line party vote and the Democrats showed some serious cohesiveness and unity. Unfortunately, they were just a couple of votes shy.

JP
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

[Sapphire Blue]

24. 217 yea/ 215 nay/ 2 NV = Passed

Slammed down the gavel, and called it 'passed', before the last 2 reps voted.

HEIL!!!

[bvar22]

31. Sorry, but 15 Democrats

sold their votes to Big Business. Not really what you can call Party Unity.

[rockymountaindem]

46. 93% of Democrats voted against it.

If you get a 93% on a test, that's an A. So, if you ask me, Democrats get an A on party unity in this vote. And the OP is right, if more Dems voted against CAFTA, the Republicans would have found more of their own to vote for it.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

3. yes and no

still doesn't excuse the dems - and don't forget the fact that clinton the yuppie started this whole free trade bullshit with nafta and his betrayal of labor in 1993

[jurassicpork]

8. True...

...with the backing of every living ex-president, including all the Republicans. Ross Perot, don't forget, was the one dissenting voice. Can you hear the giant sucking sound, NOW?

Oh, forget it. That's Jeff Gannon.

JP
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

14. they marginalized opposition and linked labor to fringe groups

the face of the anti-nafta movement was reduced to perot and pat buchanan by the media, while labor, nader, wellstone, and progressive dems were practically banned from tv

[Fiona]

34. Clinton the Yuppie?

LOL...

Do you know anything of his life-story?

Yeah, lots of yuppies growing up in poor, single-parent homes in Arkansas.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

42. Yup - pa left. It was just to go get another Beamer. He'll be back soon.

[TahitiNut]

5. Amazing.

When Ralph gets 2% of the vote, he's the most vile, evil demon on two legs. When elected Democrats vote AGAINST the overwhelming majority's preferences and economic well-being ... no big deal?

Is DU becoming Cloud-Cuckoo-Land? :crazy:

[sandnsea]

10. 15 vs. 200 Republicans?

It's really the same principle, the perpetuation of "they're all the same", which causes those Nader votes in the first place. 15 Democrats doesn't define the Democratic Party, 200 Republicans does. What's the point of confusing the public into thinking the Democrats are as guilty as the Republicans when they're not?

[ulysses]

9. then, by your definition, the DLC is republican after all.

The Progressive Case for CAFTA
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253428&kaid=108&subid=900010

DLC Conference Call: The Progressive Case for CAFTA
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253432&kaid=85&subid=108

Four Reasons To Support CAFTA
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253383&kaid=131&subid=192

[sandnsea]

11. The Republicans passed the damned bill

If it weren't for them, there wouldn't be a CAFTA. Why let the public forget that?

[ulysses]

12. I have no intention of letting anyone forget it.

Neither do I intend to gloss over the part my own party played.

[sandnsea]

13. Helps them out magnificently

They like it when we blame our own party more than we blame them. We've been doing that for 25 years, been working well so far.

[ulysses]

16. so, we should ignore the problem in our own back yard?

I'm not blaming the Dems more. Most Dems voted no, a welcome change from the NAFTA outcome. There is still a problem, however. CAFTA could, and should, have been stopped.

[sandnsea]

19. Targeting the right stops things

You know, like Schiavo and social security. When we shoot ourselves, we lose.

[ulysses]

20. tell you what, then.

You tell the centrists to get the bayonets out of the backs of the left, and we'll stop shooting back.

[sandnsea]

22. I agree with that

But I'm sure not going to play "they started it" and would hope some faction of the Dem Party would be mature enough to stop that game too.

[ulysses]

23. it'd be great to take the high road,

but difficult to do when you're being beaten about the head by your supposed allies. I have no intention of seeing the left continue to be principled and mature martyrs.

[sandnsea]

26. Not about any high road

It's about the SMART road. The left should beat the living bejeezus out of the Republicans over this, intelligently and with a strong case for the American worker. Just give the right a real tongue lashing, keeping it just off the fringe edge the left likes to play on. That's all the left ever really has to do, pull back from that edge about a half an inch, and just go after the issues. Let the centrist Dem fight for the center, somebody has to. When the centrists see the left begin to gain power, they'll make nice. When that happens, we've got the center and the left and that's not a bad place to be.

[Bluebear]

15. If it weren't for DLC there would be no CAFTA either.

[sandnsea]

18. Yes. There. Would.

The Democrats who came to the conclusion to vote for the things would have come to that conclusion anyway.

[bvar22]

33. No. There. Wouldn't.

Without the support of the DLC Senators, CAFTA was DEAD!

You. are. torturing. logic, and unlike the DLC, I. am. against. torture!

[sandnsea]

36. Those Senators

Would. have. voted. for. it. anyway. DLC or not. My own Senator, Wyden, voted for it and he's a long stretch from DLC. I don't know why he voted for it, only bad vote this year. Murray and Cantwell voted for it. I don't know why.

I do like your torture thing there though.

[Erika]

17. This was a BUSH bill!!!!!

He is the one who wanted it. He is the one who initiated selling our country down the river.

But 15 of the democrats helped him. They need to be gone.

I didn't expect better from sell-out Republicans but I did the democrats.

[sandnsea]

21. I want Bush to pay for Bush bills

Just like I've been wanting Bush to pay for everything else he's done, and for Dems to stop shooting each other and taking the focus off Bush instead.

[jim3775]

25. It doesn't matter who passed it!

The fact the those 15 traitors supported this travesty means they are no better than the republicans.

[sandnsea]

27. In 2006, it matters

We'll never get anybody to vote Democratic if we keep telling people there isn't any reason to. 15 votes is not the Democratic Party and it's flat stupid to say it is.

[jim3775]

28. There isn't any reason to vote for someone who would rather advance...

the corporate interest over human rights and fair trade.

EDIT: You're right 15 isn't the Dem pary and I never said it was. But if I could, I wouldn't vote for a republican and I wouldn't vote for a repub-lite. I used to not understand why people would vote for Nader, but now I'm starting to get it at least when it comes to certain local elections.

[sandnsea]

29. And tomorrow people will be whining about not being able to impeach

And not having subpoena power and not being able to nominate the Supreme Court Justice.

YES there are plenty of reaons to vote for Democrats, especially when such a tiny number voted on this bill.

[jim3775]

30. I highly doubt those 15 would support impeachment.

And again I never said all dems were bad. Some are.

[sandnsea]

32. All are preferable to Republicans

CAFTA is a Republican gift, let them own it.

[jim3775]

37. It is a republican gift, and those 15 tied the pretty bow around the box.

[sandnsea]

38. Those 215 gave us a platform

Unfortunately, the left is apparently too stupid to recognize a gift horse when they see it. That's the pretty bow, the ANTI-CAFTA vote.

[jim3775]

39. Did I ever say otherwise?

TO break it down, those 15 should have voted for what's right and I will vote for those who support what's right. Those 215 voted for what's right, good for them, I hope it can be turned into some votes in red districts in '06.



Thanks for calling us stupid, we appreciate the comment and will make a note of it.

[sandnsea]

40. Then turn it into votes in red districts

You do that by focusing on the 200 who voted against it, by calling it a strong Democratic stand against CAFTA and for the workers. Get enough momentum behind that message, and those 15 will never vote for a bad trade bill again.

[jim3775]

41. You're right, but my point is still valid.

Those 15 are sellouts, those 215 did a good thing.

"and those 15 will never vote for a bad trade bill again."

How do you know this to be true?

[sandnsea]

43. That's politics

Unless there is some strong reason to vote for a trade bill in their own district, overwhelming public opinion will stop them. We haven't gained the trust of voters because too many Democrats are running around saying we don't stand for anything, bla bla. It takes a strong sense of public opinion for some politicians to respond. This is an opportunity to create a strong message on an issue, for Democrats and against Republicans. Yes the DLC will be out there yakking, but that's why it's even more important to keep the focus on the Reublicans. They aren't going to do it.

[Old and In the Way]

35. I agree.

The Republicans are going to eat this up. They drive the legislation and we form the circular firing squad. I'd say that this vote shows we had as united a group of Democrats as we can expect. But the fact is, the Republicans have the majority and they control the agenda. This legislation never comes to vote in a Democratic Congress.

I'll bet my breakfast tomorrow that the Republicans set up the outcome especially for us. If those 15 Democrats had voted 'no'...would Republicans have found 15 more 'yes' votes? You betcha.

[Cocoa]

44. CAFTA belongs to the republicans

it was virtually a party-line vote.

Republicans are for CAFTA, Democrats are against CAFTA.

[NuttyFluffers]

45. Then let them crucify their own...

We have our own "children" to discipline.

There's plenty of conservatives infuriated with NAFTA as well as CAFTA. Good. Something we agree on. Will wonders never cease. All that means is they have more work to do to punish their shameful representatives. I don't envy their caseload. But if they come contrite ashamed by their representatives' bad vote, they might get some commiseration.

Now that that's settled off to punish our prodigals. Sometimes we have to focus on our own messy house for awhile.