Why is Karl Rove’s Betrayal of Valerie Palme so Bad?

[Patriot_Spear]

What is so bad about Rove and Novak’s betrayal of CIA agent Valerie Palme?

Here’s a simple dialogue to help you understand the short-term repercussions of Rove's partisanship for hundreds of people we’ll never meet. The two players are Intelligence/Security officials in the fictitious African Country of Bozimba-
---------------------------------------------
General Ima Meanguy: “Minister Yeesmann, did you read in the American Press that the wife of the US Ambassador to our country is a spy?

Minister Armee Yeesmann: No, General Meanguy. How is this important to us?

General Ima Meanguy: Well, there are several serving ministers and officials who were very close to the Ambassador when he was here, could they be working for the US against our country’s interests?

Minister Armee Yeesmann: I see what you mean General; what should we do?

General Ima Meanguy: We have no choice but to pick them up and interrogate them. And while we’re at it we’ll have to get their wives, children and friends to see what they might know as well. It’ll be a messy business.

Minister Armee Yeesmann: Do what you have to General.
----------------------------------------------

Conversations like this are being played out right now wherever Ambassador Wilson was posted. Innocent people are being subjected to torture and death because of mere association with Palme and Wilson; and actual Intelligence assets working for our country are being compromised and turned against us.

Let’s put it another way; a soldier captured in combat has an easier time of it than a spy- because the soldier doesn’t get captured with his kids, his wife, his parents, his friends, etc. There’s no Geneva convention for someone accused of espionage and in the third world its' doubly so.

The long term consequence for the United States is the ruin of Valerie Palme as a valuable intelligence gathering tool forever; as well as effectively blinding the US in some of the most troubled and volatile regions in the world.

The law is clear about a citizen deliberately betraying the identity of a US covert agent- the question now is, ‘will we let them get away with it?’

[Pepperbelly]

1. spot on ...

Partisan politics over national security and humanitarianism.

Thes guys are totally disgusting.

[shockingelk]

2. I thinik Joe Average would respond better to this

"Someone in the White House intentionally blew the cover of a covert agent trying to protect us from WMD."

[Brian Sweat]

35. Is it true that the main goal of Valerie Palme's work was to track WMD?

If so, this is big shit. You or I could die because someone in the White House opened their pie hole.

[Patriot_Spear]

40. Yes- that was her principle role...

Interestingly enough- her CIA boss took early retirement about three weeks ago. Coincidence?

[janekat]

3. 70 CIA Operatives killed because of this??? Rumor or Truth?

Found this out on the net on the "Conspiracy Planet." written by Al Martin. Anybody familiar with that site? Is it a nutso site?

The Curious Case of Ambassador Joseph Wilson
by CONSPIRACY PLANET
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=49&contentid=927
Political analyst Al Martin reveals explosive new information about US Ambassador Joseph Wilson and the Bush Cabal’s retaliation against his wife, which has, by all accounts, caused the death of more than 70 CIA assets overseas.......

-more-

.......“Because of that leak, in an effort to retaliate against Wilson, all of the intelligence network that she had built up in Africa and the Middle East in those 26 years was destroyed. All of the people who had cooperated with the CIA because of her have now been liquidated by anti-US elements within their own governments.”

According to Martin, “Wilson pointed out that because if this his wife and their children had to go into hiding and that the CIA was put in a very difficult position that Tenet didn’t want to do it. Tenet understood the repercussions. Wilson said that the Bush administration has placed the life of his wife and children in peril and has destroyed an intelligence network that took decades to build at the cost of million of American taxpayers dollars and has now led to the elimination of more than 70 people, all CIA resources. This was done in an effort to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson.”

“If this ever got cracked in mainstream media, it will open a Pandora’s Box, i.e. this would begin the expose the carefully crafted fabrication of lies the Bush administration used in order to garner public support to go into Iraq.

[Patriot_Spear]

4. When Aldrich Ames betrayed our Soviet Agents...

They filmed the arrests and the executions- if you search the net you'll find some of the stills.

I'm betting some cowboy at Langley has Karl Rove on his 'To Do' list right after the next election.

[thebigidea]

7. after that Karl Roverer (sic, whatever) thing, its hard to take seriously

It just seems like he makes stuff up to fill in the blanks. A fertile creative mind!

[Brian Sweat]

36. If Al Martin said that the sun would set tonight, I would wait to see

before I believed him. Until a better source comes along, I am going to assume this is BS.

[gulliver]

5. Excellent post!

That really helps the point sink in. It underscores the importance of the laws the Bushies broke very effectively.

[Terwilliger]

6. Death to Bob Novak!! TRAITOR!!!

fucking asshole "capital gains" puke needs to be buried in the chasms of Leavenworth for 10 to 25!!!! Let's see if the Pukes will understand what happens to traitors!

[Patriot_Spear]

8. You'll LOVE this Terwilliger...

"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors."

Remarks by George Bush
41st President of the United States
At the Dedication Ceremony for the George Bush Center for Intelligence

26 April 1999

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/1999/bush_speech_042699.html

[Terwilliger]

28. haha!

keep THAT bookmarked!

[leesa]

9. Although I agree completely and think it is a good thing that the media

traitors will be held accountable, don't neglect the bigger criminal, the one who leaked it to him. If that was Rove, then he need to be tried for a high federal crime in addition to his acts of treason.

[Terwilliger]

29. Novak and the White House sources

SEND THEM TO JAIL!

[leetrisck]

10. I know I heard Tim Russert say

to Richard Gephardt that the White House leaked the story to 6 reporters? I had not heard that before - I thought it was only Novak. Had any of you heard this? Was Novak the only that did report it and was he the only one who was told.

[Romberry]

14. Actually, I don't see Novak at the bad guy here at all.

http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?14@@.6853034b/36

I just want to give everyone an idea to shoot down concerning Robert Novak and this story, OK?

The White House wanted to out Valerie Plame to teach Joe Wilson a very public lesson. The idea was to use this as a warning to any other good American citizens in or with close ties to government who might foolishly believe that telling the truth was a good and admirable thing even when the truth was at odds with administration politics and policy. I think pretty much everyone will agree with me so far.

These high level sources from the White House apparently approached at least six different reporters. Five demurred. Only Novak ran it. Why?

I am no fan of Bob Novak but I will never argue that he is not a very intelligent man. Mr. Novak was publicly against the war in Iraq. He recognized the push for empire and I expect he's recognized a good deal more as well. At the most basic level he recognized an executive branch running out of control.

Novak knew that he had first amendment protection as a journalist, knew that exposing the identity of covert intelligence operatives by government officials was a felony and knew by the high level contact that this leak had the approval of the White House at the **very highest levels**.

Novak understood that this administration had just put its head in a noose. After thinking about it, he decided the best thing he could do was to help them fit it snugly around their necks.

Instead of wondering if Novak can be prosecuted or otherwise held accountable, I think I'm going to write him a sincere letter -- not an email but an actual letter -- of thanks.

Bob Novak is an intelligent guy. He knew what he was doing. The Bush White House, as usual, did not.

There it is. Feel free to shoot it down.

[Patriot_Spear]

18. Nofact's decided to reverse 40 years of partisanship, just like that?

Like the saying goes, 'Snakes don't commit suicide.'

[Terwilliger]

26. Novak knew what he was doing

He outed a CIA operative at the behest of his political friends. He KNEW EXACTLY what he was doing, he knew that outing this woman could very well have been secret information, but he didn't care. He wanted to help Bush by slamming this upstart Ambassador (probably a Democrat) who dared debunk Bush's War plans and, in effect, prove that Bush was a liar.

Novak should be hung with the rest of the liars.

[Brian Sweat]

37. I hate to agree with you, because it goes against everything I believe,

but you are right. Novak has been around Washington long enough to know better. I am a strong supporter of the first amendment, but there are limits. A reporter must not report things that put soldiers or agents lives in danger or that create a risk to national security. Novaks put peoples lives in danger by outing Palme and he should be charged with a crime for it.

[robbedvoter]

11. WP today: WH contacted about 6 VP reporters - only Nofacts was sleazy

enough to go for it.
Also, check this interview with former CIA agents for more juicy stuff of a similar event during Poppy's time :

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/17/1543215

[Patriot_Spear]

12. Translation: Six reporter choose not to break the law...

Are they really trying to say an old Washington insider like Nofact's was unaware of this law? Anyhow, ignorance of the law is no excuse...

[Romberry]

17. Not against the law for a reporter to report..

...but definitely against the law for a government official to divulge the information.

John Dean has an excellent article on the law involved with this issue at FindLaw.Com: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html

[Patriot_Spear]

20. We'll let the courts decide that...

I say Nofact's broke the law and is a traitor.
It is beyond debate whether he did it or not; The only real question here is does the law on this issue applies to a 'reporter' or not?

I'm willing to let the courts decide that.

[Romberry]

22. The court decided that a long time ago

You've heard of the first amendment, right?

You see any charges brought against Novak? No.

You hear Ambassador Wilson wishing to see Novak "frog marched" in handcuffs? No.

Ask yourself "Why?"

[Patriot_Spear]

25. Perhaps- we'll have to wait and see.

Does the first Amendment give someone the right to commit a criminal act? I think this case has strong merit.

I'm betting the court will ask why six reporters refused to publish this classified information and Nofact's did it anyway.

[Brian Sweat]

39. The 1st amend. doesn't give you the right to put people's lives in danger.

You cannot yell fire in a crowded movie theater and you cannot compromise national security. These are well established limits on the first amendment.

[Terwilliger]

31. you're bending over backwards to excuse Nofacts and other media

sorry...they're just as culpable

The information (given to people who are independent thinkers and assessors of information) contained potentially damaging information that should have been followed-up on before anything was printed or published.

Maybe the rest did their job and kept this uncorroborated information on the QT.

Novak did not. He's a Bush lover and wanted to do his part to assist in Bush's treachery.

[Romberry]

15. Novak wasn't sleazy

Novak realized that the Bush White House was sticking it's head in a noose. He helped them out by making sure it fit snugly around their necks. See post 14 in this thread for why.

[Patriot_Spear]

16. riigghhht.

uh-huh, sure.

[Romberry]

19. Yep.

Novak was against the war in Iraq and he can see as well as anyone that insane neocons are running the show. The White House supplied the method of their own destruction. I can assure you that Novak knew it was against the law, as in major felony against the law, for "top White House officials" to out a CIA operative.

Put your thinking cap on. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[Eloriel]

23. You -- or whoever wrote that -- aren't factoring in

EGO.

People do realy stupid things when their egos are leading. Novak wasn't interested in sinking the Bush administration, he was merely interested in feathering his nest as a "journalist" and flattering himself as an insider.

Burn 'im.

Eloriel

[Terwilliger]

32. Rom

Novak does NOT dislike Bush. He would do anything to help him. Your contention doesn't work.

[IggleDoer]

13. Is Novackula off the hook?

He says he can't reveal his sources since he is a "newsman". Well, he was aware that this was a treasonous act and to refuse to reveal his sources and his knowledge of (and complicity with) with this treachery is nothing short of treason itself.

Either you're with us or again' us! NOVACK IS A TERRORIST!

[Romberry]

21. You are not thinking this through.

It appears that very few people are actually taking time to think it through.

Listen, I agree that Novak is a loathsome Publican but do you honestly think he is dumb? Do you honestly think he was not fully aware of what would happen if he used the "leak" that was being shopped all over town? And just who do you think it was that tipped off Ambassador Wilson to the point that Wilson, a retired career diplomat, would feel comfortable in naming Karl Rove directly as the man he would like to see "frog marched" out of the White House before there was ever any investigation of any kind?

[Patriot_Spear]

24. YOU need to think this through...

Every point raised on here- about the Intelligence damage to the nation; the innocent contacts of the Wilson's who will suffer; the danger that Palme now faces- Nofact's KNEW all this just like we do. And he wrote the story six other reporters refused to touch.

So really we have two choices here- either Nofact's is so callous he doesn't care what would happen to Palme and the others; OR he's complict.

Either way the law was broken- Bob can explain his actions in the almost certain civil suit he'll have to face from the Wilson's when the criminal investigation is done.

[RC]

33. If no one had made this public bu$h&co would have

gotten away with more of their lies? Yes.

Hopefully this will be the start of the under oath questioning of top officials in the White House.

Let the Treason Trials begin.

[Patriot_Spear]

34. like said yesterday- a bad day for Karl...LMAO

n/t

[Brian Sweat]

41. Again there are exceptions to the 1st amendment.

Just a like lawyer-client privilege does not apply if the lawyer is involved in the crime, a journalist cannot protect a source who violates the law through the act of become a source.

[MrPrax]

27. Yup..bad

People like Agee and Marchiti--never mind the folks at CovertAction have been accused and threatened with doing far far less than what Novak did...
Leak or no leak...it really goes to the core of what is truly wrong with this government...
I hope Novak is given a long jail sentence--his first admendment protections don't work with national security concerns and God knows many many on the left have been 'screwed' and jailed over this higher regard for the State's protections than Individual Freedom...

It really is shocking--forget the partisan spin, guys

[John_Shadows_1]

30. From the other thread...

.... here's the e-mail address for cnn

[e-mail]

Here's a letter I sent:

Dear Sirs,
Robert Novak's unmasking of a CIA operative is an action which could be of the gravest consequences. It appears that Novak, a Conservative, (as your show Crossfire bills him), actually took actions which facilitated the Bush administrations' political payback of Joseph Wilson, who was attempting to give an honest appraisal of Saddam Hussein's nuclear capabilities. This acion was unethical, and undermines U.S. intelligence efforts around the globe. This is not journalism, it is political sabotage, and I feel that your show should hold its' participants to a higher standard than the one Novak has exhibited here. If he does not apologize or address the issue, I will no longer be a viewer of your network.

Sincerely,

I encourage others to send theirs. Novak is noxious, but with this little adventure he's become poisonous as well.

[Brian Sweat]

42. You missed the most important part.

Political payback may have been the motive behind the outing of Valerie Palme, but a serious breach of national security may be the result.

[PopSixSquish]

38. You are Absolutely Correct Sir.

The implications of this are truly frightening. Most operatives take great care to protect their assets. I believe Valerie Palme has probably thought of this scenario and much worse. May God protect her and those who helped her.