Dean on Face the Nation 10:30 EST

[Karmadillo]

Schieffer is saying he took the same position Newt Gingrich took regarding Medicare cuts. Dean is saying he supported what Clinton signed. Could be an interesting half hour.

On Edit: Added time show was on television (at least in my area).

[Karmadillo]

1. Dean is going hard after Clark for being a Republican

n/t

[Skwmom]

2. Clark is not a Republican

Another one of Deans lies. This show is highlighting what a liar Dean is.

[matcom]

3. can you explain the video of Clark praising Rummy, Dick and Bush then?

just curious

Clark said Bush* is exactly what this country needs

[Pepperbelly]

4. I can ...

This is a report of what Clark said in addressing this:

"So when I got out of the military and into business I looked at both parties," Clark explained to the crowd on why he was a Democrat. "I talked to Condoleeza Rice right away. I found out I didn't like her view on foreign policy. She said American troops shouldn't do peacekeeping they should do real fighting. But she is an academic, what does she know? I've been on the front lines. I tried to explain it to her. She let me know she was going to be in charge. And I spoke out on the election campaign on what we are trying to do on behalf of Bosnia and the Balkans and so forth. And when I went home to Arkansas I was in business and I wanted to meet both sides. The Republicans came to me and said 'Hey we would like for you to speak at our Lincoln Day fund-raiser. I said I am not going to be there for Lincoln Day. They said 'General we'll hold Lincoln Day whenever you can get here.' So I did. I spoke to about 450 Republicans there at Embassy Suites. I was non-partisan. I basically praised Republicans for being Republicans. . . . But I knew what the Republican Party was like and I couldn't indentify with that party. They are the party that when I was commanding in Kosovo, they were the party led by Tom Delay against our airman who were in the skies over Yugoslavia taking fire from Serb anti-aircraft and this party voted against them. They claimed they weren't. They claimed they were voting against just a policy, but I read what they said. They wanted the policy to fail. They didn't have a vision. They didn't understand what America was about. They put their interest of the party above the interest of the party. I'll never put the interest of the party above the interest of the country."

[Karmadillo]

9. Well, in response to a Republican charge that Dean is a "flip-flopper",

Dean told Schieffer that when new facts come along, he changes his position if appropriate. Perhaps Clark would say the same.

[bearfan454]

28. I believe Clark IS a repuke.

He voted for and supported Nixon and Reagan. If that isn't repuke I don't know what is. Who ever heard of a 4 star general that is a Democrat ? Think about it.

[SWPAdem]

50. Damn

I guess I'm not a Democrat anymore, either, since I have voted for a few Repugs in the past also. I guess all those liberals that I knew during my time in the Army were fakers, too.

[janekat]

53. I also voted for Reagan....

Does that mean I can never run as a Democratic candidate....

[dsc]

65. How many Democrats did you vote for?

It is possible he voted for more Republicans than Democrats. I find that hard to believe in your case.

[bearfartinthewoods]

87. or ask how many meetings did the poster take with repubs?

for all the dems who've voted for repubs, did you also have meetingS
with republicans about the possibility of running for office as a republican within the last 2 years???

[janekat]

104. I've met 2 Republican Presidents....

Nixon and Ford. Had a tour of Congress with Jerry Ford, met Bob Dole. Been to tons of Republican fundraisers.

I'm NOW the only Democrat on both sides of the family.

Please don't question MY Democratic credentials - I've worked on 7 Democratic campaigns up and will work on another this year.

[bearfartinthewoods]

105. you skipped half of the scenerio.

i didn't say who met repubs i said had meetings with them to discuss reunning for office as one of them. if you have had meetings with republicans to discuss running as a republican, i question your liberal and dem credentials.

[janekat]

107. The Republican Party talked to me about running for office....

for State Senator. I did mull it over - but decided not to because I do not like the "spotlight."

I've worked on two campaigns for Republicans - 7 for Democrats.

[janekat]

100. I voted Republican until the Clarence Thomas situation....

I was born into a Republican family - I'm the only Liberal on both sides of the family. It's very difficult to see another point of view when you're in these environments. I would imagine that the military is such an environment.

I would have voted for Kennedy against my family's wishes but was only 9 at the time... LOL!

[bearfartinthewoods]

134. that was over a decade ago..we're talkin about less than 2 years here.

[Cha]

123. Dean is not a "liar" ...you just llike to pop up on theads and bash

Dean whenever so whatever you say about Dean should be taken with the whole salt pond.

[janekat]

88. WHY does he spend all this time attacking Clark? What about HIS

stance on the issues?

[alcuno]

109. I watched the interview and saw it differently.

Let me say that I like them both very much and would love to vote for either one of them. But I didn't hear Dean attacking Clark. He was raising a valid point; the general has admitted to voting for Republicans. He never attacked him on issues.

Clark has the ability to pull the most votes away from Kerry and Lieberman and that benefits Dean as well as Clark.

If you are a believer in Dean's willingness to pick Clark as a running mate, then it helps tremendously to have someone who is seen as a former Republican by your side.

[janekat]

110. He ain't going to get Clark as a VP candidate this way.... n/t

[bitchkitty]

120. You can read about

Dean's stances on the issues at his web site. But you already knew that, didn't you?

[Skwmom]

5. This guy is nothing but a damn liar.

He say Clark "advocated" the US going to war against Iraq. LIE
He said he did not take the same position as Newt Gingrich. LIE
He says Clark was a Republican. LIE.

[EagleEye]

6. Clark DId Advocate Supporting the War Resolution

[Pepperbelly]

13. Joe Connason addressed this better than I can.

-snip-

"On his first outing, Mr. Clark provided his adversaries an easy target when he made a typical novice error: He told the truth about a complex problem. Specifically, he confessed to ambivalence about the proper way to deal with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. That led some of his more eager critics to declare his candidacy almost ruined only days after he declared himself. On the ABC News Web site, an anonymous Democrat wailed in "despair and anger." That single moment of vacillation, it was said, could even "define" the former NATO Supreme Commander—as if he had said and done nothing else in his 58 years.

-snip-

What did Mr. Clark utter to provoke such silly overreaction? He acknowledged that the resolution on Iraq confronted Senators with a difficult decision. They could vote no—and embolden Saddam to block the U.N. inspectors from returning to Baghdad. Or they could vote yes—and offer George W. Bush a "blank check" to wage an unwise and unjustified war.

-snip-

"At the time, I probably would have voted for it, but I think that’s too simple a question," he explained. "I don’t know if I would have or not. I’ve said it both ways because when you get into this, what happens is you have to put yourself in a position—on balance, I probably would have voted for it." But his purpose in voting for the resolution, as he also explained, would have been to build "leverage for a U.N.-based solution." He would have fought for a resolution similar to one supported by some Democrats, requiring the President to seek further approval before invading."

[Kahuna]

20. When did he? Got any proof? Please present it. I want..

to see text in Clark's own words him advocating going to war against Iraq. I don't want to see indirect quotes or an overview of what someone thinks he said. Please provide text that clark advocated going to war with Iraq.

[EagleEye]

30. The AP article from last Fall has been broadcast here often

I don't have a copy.

[Skwmom]

29. LIE

For the record, the comment that followed Clark’s statement that he’d “probably” have supported the Bush resolution on Iraq was followed by, “but, I think that’s too simple a question.”

Unlike Dean, who just bashes other candidates for their voting records (even though those candidates are dealing with a political minefield in this area), Clark actually tries to give an honest answer.

After reviewing the resolution, Clark clarified that he would not have voted for it as drafted.

Easy for Dean to say he would not have voted for the resolution. Dean, he would have done whatever he felt was in "Dean's best interest" if he had had to vote on it.

[EagleEye]

34. You are talking about the plane interview last week, I'm

talking about a quote from last year during the debate on the resolution.

[tjdee]

117. He did NOT support going to war.

There's a difference, we've been through that.

[Skwmom]

8. Another lie.

He stated that he was against raising the retirement age. I just read the other day he backed away from raising it to 70 but was still consider raising it to 68. I guess this didn't poll well so he changed his position.

[EagleEye]

12. Last October he was quoted as supporting it. How is that a lie?

[Closer]

21. YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

"MOM"

Your posts look ignorant.

Clark DID advocate this war.

Clark WAS a Republican.

Do your research, instead of mindlessly following the Clarkies on THIS site. Because that'll get you NOWHERE.

[Skwmom]

39. I deal in facts.

That's why I can't stand Dean. Hmm.. attacking my posts as "ignorant." When I was in public accounting it was a dead give away when the client attacked you personally that they didn't have a leg to stand on. Obviously, that must be a universal truth which also applies to politics.

[Closer]

52. And that's why

I attacked your post, not you.


And you obviously DON'T deal in facts looking at your posts.

[dsc]

78. Have you looked at your posts lately Ms Manners?

You call posters liars (without bothering to provide even one link it should be noted), you lie about Dean's statements on MTP. You have some nerve criticising us as negative.

[Cha]

125. You do Not deal in facts.

you deal in mindless bashing.

[EagleEye]

54. Dean Nailed Clark's Vulnerabilities

That's what you do when you've laid out your positions and the new guy hasn't laid out his. Clark set this up by only declaring allegiance two weeks ago. It's a question on everyone's mind. Dean even said that it appears Clark is a Dem. now.

[Pepperbelly]

59. What Dean did was show his true colors ...

and they are not pleasing.

Intellectually dishonest.

Say anything to get elected.

Harhly judgemental without regard to facts.

Sanctimonious.

[EagleEye]

67. Did you just call someone Sanctimonious?

Interesting

[Pepperbelly]

74. it shouldn't.

Santimony is Dean's stock-in-trade.

BTW, why haven't you gotten to my posts that deals with these issues?

[Cha]

126. I love Dean's "Colors"!

Red, White, and Blue!

[SWPAdem]

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black, to me

n/t

[dsc]

35. On the subject of lies

Dean said he would consider raising the retirement age to 68. I considered going to the Cincinnati Cleveland game today but didn't. Similarly Dean considered raising the age and desided on something else (increasing the top income that can be taxed by SS). Try not lying in the future while decrying other people's 'lies'.

[dsc]

14. Just what should we call a person

who voted for Nixon in 72, Reagan in 80 and 84, and Bush 1 in 88? I would call that a Republican. Add to that his fundraiser for Huckabee and Hutchinson and I think again Republican is a good name for that.

[bearfartinthewoods]

96. your forgot that he was courting or courted by AK repubs about

running for congress when he retired? he took meetingS to discuss the idea. meetingS as in plural.

how many meetings would you take with repubs about running as a repub?

most LIBERALS would laugh at the idea from the git go but it took clark meetingS to decide not to.

[SWPAdem]

16. Yeah,

and Dean is allowed to change his mind on issues when he gets new facts, but Clark, apparently is not.

[Cha]

124. your assaults on Dean mean 0.

you lost your credibility weeks ago...mindless bashing has its repercussions.

[IranianDemocrat]

130. Thank you Dean for showing the country what a lying whore you are!

.

[Cha]

132. you call Dean "a lying whore" because he spoke the truth...

what does that make you?

[EagleEye]

7. Dean Supported CLintons Medicaid Plan

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Support We Were Talking About Medicare....

[EagleEye]

18. Point Being it was CLintons Plan he supported, if Gingrich also supported

similar plans, so be it. He did not support Gingrich

[janekat]

106. he's flip-flopped on THAT issue several times....

BEFORE he became a "Liberal" candidate for President he had a a very harsh (and Republican) stance on it...

[EagleEye]

10. Dean Gave reasons for claiming Clark was a Repug

Voting in the past for Repugs, praising the Bushco players.

[Pepperbelly]

17. Dean using this ...

makes me think far less of Dean. e might well be falling out of second place for intellectual dishonesty.

[EagleEye]

22. With the evidence on the table, it makes since to go after Clark

on this point. It's not like there is no support for it.

[Pepperbelly]

27. the "support" for it is there only if one is intellectually dishonest.

Otherwise, I would think you would address what I have posted above.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Dean Is Starting To Remind Me Of Bob Dole On His Worst Days........

He's just plain mean....

[Kahuna]

26. Dean will say anything to win. He's such a creep.

:puke:

[Gin]

40. President Dean....ahhhh....sounds good to me!

gin

[Renew Deal]

45. I'm glad it sounds good in your head...

because you will never hear it in your ears.

[janekat]

112. He's only out for himself.... He's attacked all the other candidates

said he might dissuade his campaign workers from working for another candidate if he loses the nomination.

[KaraokeKarlton]

118. He never said any such thing

Post a link to a quote where Dean says he'll dissuade his campaign workers from working for another candidate if he loses the nomination. Either post it or admit it's complete bullshit.

Dean has said repeatedly that he will support whoever the nominee is and will also work to help them. He's just concerned that some of his supporters won't support others if he asks them to. He has no control over that.

I didn't see the show in question of hear what he said, but if Dean did criticize Clark about something it means that Dean is disgusted with whatever it was he talked about. That's why he criticizes what others do. He doesn't do it to "win" he does it because the issue bothers him enough to say so.

[Cha]

127. I'll repeat~! This is politics not a tea party...the other candidates

have done the same ...are haven't you been paying attention?

[Cha]

133. Dean is just stating the facts that can't be handled by ones who

puke so easily.

[clar]

I hate to agree with you

because I'm a Dean supporter, but I am really unhappy about his attack on General Clark this morning. I don't think it was intellectually honest either.

[Pepperbelly]

51. dang

:wow:

[Closer]

58. Oh because Pepperbelly

thought SOO much of Dean before right? :eyes:


RIIIGHT

[Pepperbelly]

64. While I am accustomed to a lack of acumen in most of your posts ...

your ability to read minds is something new to me.

In fact, Dean was my second choice. Note, in case you didn't as you read that sentence, the past tense usage of the 'be' verb: WAS.

[poskonig]

75. You don't have a second choice.

You're with Clark until he drops out. Be honest.

[Pepperbelly]

79. by second choice ....

I mean what I said. If my guy had dropped out, I would have supported Dean. But not now.

[poskonig]

83. Exactly. You're with Clark until he drops out.

If Clark cannot take pointing out *facts* about his past from Democrats, he is going to crumble in the slim chance he gets to Rove.

Dean, in contrast, can absorb a lot of attacks, since he has been through organized hate campaigns before.

[Pepperbelly]

85. Dean ...

is a punk. Why do I say that? Because he used an intellectually dishonest attack. It's not a matter of whether Clark can handle Dean because there isn't a doubt in my mind. What Dean did was lose my respect, respect that he once had. Now, voting ABB for him would be a bitter pill to swallow. I would but I would have to hold my nose.

[poskonig]

90. You prefer Bush over Dean?

Perhaps Clark and his supporters are Republicans. :+

[Pepperbelly]

94. is your problem in this a ...

reading skills problem or a problem in honesty.

Or were you just making a funny?

I thought that I clearly stated that I would "hold my nose" and vote for ABB, even if Dean is nominted.

[poskonig]

102. Yes, I was being funny.

Hence, the clown. :p

[gully]

97. How is this 'dishonest' isn't Clark dishonest by not being up front about

it.

IMHO, Clark should have been totally upfront about his 'conversion' so others didn't have to bring it to light.

He should have a page dedicated to it on his website. It is important, yet I can support him if he's honest/upfront.

[wyldwolf]

19. ok...

Voting in the past for Repugs, praising the Bushco players.

Many of us here have voted for repugs in the past and most democrats in congress praised the Bushco players.

Sorry we all don't pass your Democrat litmus test.

[EagleEye]

25. Apology accepted. : )

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. I Never Voted R In My Life And I Have Been Voting Since 76.....

but I don't like Dean....He's just plain mean....

[hedda_foil]

36. YOU don't have to pass a Democratic litmus test. HE does.

You're not running for president on the Democratic ticket. Clark is. Perhaps he voted for Clinton and Gore, but if he did, in fact, vote for Gore, what the FUCK was he doing at that Repuke fundraiser 2 years ago not just praising the creeps in *'s cabinet, as well as * and Poppy, but ALSO making little Republican in-jokes about making sure the military vote is counted? That's no fucking Gore supporter. That's no fucking Democrat. That's an opportunist in my book. An opportunist who is probably much more moderate in his views that *, but an opportunist who is still basically a Republican.

[bearfan454]

41. I, for one. have NEVER voted for a repuke.

And I never will to the day I die. Ever !.....Never Ever !!!!

[Renew Deal]

42. Good, open minded.

That's the attitude we need.

[dsc]

48. He may well have voted for more Republican presidents

than Democrats. We know he voted for Republicans in four elections and Democrats in three. He admits to voting for Nixon, Reagan twice, and Bush 1 and for Clinton twice and Gore. And he praised those people at a Republican fundraiser. He raised money for Hutchinson and Huckabee.

[Renew Deal]

73. Where did you get Bush 1.

I am pretty plugged in, but I haven't heard that.

[Skwmom]

47. He left out the facts that support Clark being a Democrat

Voting for Clinton and Gore, his liberal positions, etc.

The facts seem to support Clark being an "Independent." To take selective facts and try to paint a picture that is untrue is a "lie."

[Renew Deal]

68. How about campaigning for Max Cleland and others.

There's plenty of stuff.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

119. Perhaps he should make his run as an Independent then?

[Dudley_DUright]

15. Dean gave a great answer on the "flip-flop" charges

that have been thrown at him by the RNC. He said (and I am paraphrasing here) that "when the republicans encounter facts that dispute their theories they try to throw out or ignore the facts (global warming being one example). When I encounter facts that dispute my positions, I reexamine my positions."

[Malikshah]

76. Stop w/ the Memes, folks

ON EDIT: Sorry this was meant for the original post on the thread....
mea culpa. It's not meant in response to the post it comes after. :)

When * & Co. take over for 4 more years of hell on earth--I will come back and remind each and every one of you of your fostering of the "flip-flop" "temper" "Republican or Democrat" memes.

They're divisive, pathetic and weakening.

Each of them have been thoroughly discounted by of all things the facts--and only a dunder headed idiot would continue to promote them as sound political discussion.

Shame on each and every one of you -- Wake up!

On a similar line--

The person from the Cook report needs to get her head out of her caboose as well. She spouted off historical precedence re: polls, basically stating that nothing up til now matters in polls--it's only after December that we should look. She uses the past as her basis for thought.

Uh-- We're dealing w/ a different political scenario here folks.

2000 Stolen Election
9/11/01
Pre-emptive war

These facts completely alter the equation--if the political analysts cannot see that then they should be canned.

[janx]

24. What time is this on? I'm on Mountain time and don't

want to miss it!

[Eloriel]

44. It's all over the board

I thought I missed it, but just found out it's on at 11:30 Eastern in the Atlanta market.

Eloriel

[janx]

66. Thanks, Eloriel.

I think it has been preempted by a football game here (Colorado). I can't find it anywhere, so I'll have to read the transcript later.

[janx]

31. Is it on NOW?

?

[Bread and Circus]

33. Dean is divisive and I will now say....

of all the main candidates, I like Dean the very least.
6 months ago, I thought he was going to be my guy. I
like the underdog. However, he has run a campaign of
negativity bashing other dems and inferring they are
republicans.

I don't trust Dean and I think his "people powered
howard" and rolled up sleeves bit is just an act.

I have tried to refrain from directly running Dean down
but I am sick of his tactics. If people don't like him
enough for who he is, he just has to live with it. Running
everyone else down on the ticket does not help our party.

I hope Clark keeps the high ground.

[poskonig]

38. Clark voters aren't going to switch anyway.

People aren't going to Clark because of his detailed educational plan or record on health care. They merely like the stars and are afraid of Bush.

Dean needs to juice up the supporters he already has and get the word out on who Clark really is for those undecided.

[Renew Deal]

55. The problem is...

People have been trying to define Clark. Then they see him or meet him and are drawn to him. So go ahead and try to define him.

[poskonig]

60. Who Cares? Dean is going to win the nomination and defeat Bush Junior.

I see no reason to switch to Clark. All Clark's supporters claim is that Clark has stars and that they are very afraid of Bush.

[Renew Deal]

63. Arrogant and wrong...

Go find the Clark taking Dean supporters article and get back to me.

[poskonig]

70. There will be a nice place for Clark in the Dean administration.

You have nothing to worry about. :evilgrin:

Why are Clarkies so touchy? Gephardt is hammering Dean on MTP and we don't see the Deanies going bezerk....

[Renew Deal]

81. Gep is telling the truth. Dean lied.

[poskonig]

84. Gephardt can say whatever he wants. The point is:

we don't see the *Dean people* crying all over DU today. That's because we're unstoppable. :toast:

[Pepperbelly]

69. Your analysis is 'blue sky' at best.

And I outlined the reasons in the post mountainman made about Clark's eventual nomination. While I am not as convinced as mountainman, I do believe that this goes past the 3/2 primaries and Clark will be in an excellent position for those states.

[robbedvoter]

56. Thank you for the free psychoanalysis. (It was free, right?)

Quaking in my boots behind Clark (with the other tens of thousands of scared activists that drafted him)

[union_maid]

61. That is ridiculous

I switched from Dean to Clark and not because of the stars. I think the will be a huge help in the general and beyond, no doubt, but I switched because I think Clark is more liberal than Dean, more in touch with more different segments of the population, and probably the brightest of the whole lot, although I do think that everyone running on the Dem side is highly intellegent. Clark has spoken about things that concern me and seems more aware of the huge problems that we ordinary Americans face than Dean. Also, and here's a place where the stars do come in, when confronted with intelligence reports, Clark is as capable as anyone in understanding and interpreting them.

[janekat]

114. would have been a Deanie - am turned off and now for Clark....

I've been seeing more and more things that I don't like about him. I saw his reocrd as governor on the environment in Vermont and I tmade me sick. If you look at his background as Governor in Vermont - it will make you ill.

If you look at some of the things that he's said about welfare recipients and gays - you would think that he was a bigoted right wing Republican. And by the way - he reluctantly signed that bill about gay unions. Don't let him fool you.

[Cha]

129. you haven't been a Dean supporter for a month now....according

to you...

And he signed the the Civil Unions Bill...he didn't have to...Dean believed in it. It was the right thing to do. So he did it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. There's A Graph In Today's NYT

Main Section Page 24


Of all the Dems in Thursday's debate Dean spent the most time bashing other Dems...

He "doesn't play well with others".

[gully]

121. I must have missed that...

:eyes:

I recall him DEFENDING himself more then anything.

[babzilla]

113. is this what you mean by refraining to directly run him down?

Dean Fans, Look Here !!!! Dean Can't Win!!! Here's Why!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5697&forum=DCForumID22

I know, you were doing it for the good of the party right?

[Bread and Circus]

122. I am glad you brought that up...

because I apologized for my tone and agressiveness
in that thread as well as some statements I made
briefly following up on it.

However, I have since been treating Dean with kid gloves for
the sake of a unified message here at DU. But no longer, Dean
has misrepresented himself and has crossed the line
too many times. I am glad Gep and Kerry are calling him on it.

It's funny how Dean was saying good things about Clark
right up until Clark ran for the nomination. If Dean
thought Clark was such a Republican, why did he seek
his advice on foreign affairs? Why did he (allegedly)
offer him a position in his as yet to be determined
administration? Why did his campaign staffers infer Clark would
make good VP material?

Here's why.... Clark wasn't/isn't a Republican but now that
Dean is seriously worried, he's gotta scare everybody
and mislead his followers not to jump ship.

I predicted Dean would implode, and this is just the start
of it. I also predicted Dean couldn't beat Bush and you
know what, the polls are showing that. So, if Dean gets
nominated, we will all have to hope and pray that all
the Dems he has alienated and the vast number of "middle
of the roaders" he has alienated will change their mind
and get behind him.

Here's my outright opinion: Dean is dangerous for the party
and seems to be able to say anything to just to get elected.

Some of you can accuse me of "doing Rove's work" for getting
aggressive (again) but I am sick of the BS. I am not going to
stand idly by when Dean infers that his colleagues are Republicans
or Republican-like just to get ahead. What Dean is doing is called divide and conquer. It's all called a good way to lose in 2004
when Dean has no friends and has ran a campaign of negativity
and divisiveness.

[Cha]

128. You are so disingenous....you were mindlessly attacking Dean

for months on this Board...who do you think you are fooling?

And no there's no links ..I didn't save any of your flame baiting on Dean.

[dusty64]

37. A good preview of

what the media has in store for WHOMEVER wins the Democratic nomination. I don't usually watch these things, but I'm home alone and tuned in. The corporate media will do whatever it takes to make the Democrat appear to be a liar and indecisive, they did a better good job of that with Dean (whom I like). If ONLY they would do the same with chimp and his repig minions, don't bet on it. There will be NO chance for the opposition to spell out their agenda which would benefit the People and the Planet, it will be ALL negative ALL the time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Bob Scheiffer Is One Of The Good Guys....

He's tough on all the players....That's his job....

A DUer posted an e-mail he sent Schieffer for holding Condi Rice's feet to the fire...

[Renew Deal]

57. They did a better job of that with Dean...

because he is a liar and he is indecisive.

[dusty64]

71. Which one of the candidates

wouldn't the media be able to portray this way. Of all these shows Schieffer is one of the better ones, but can any of us REALLY believe they would subject our naked emperor to this kind of grilling? There will be NO time allowed to our candidates to present their positive agenda, it will ALL be focused on infighting and negativity. I haven't made up my mind of who would receive my support (I do know which one I do NOT like or who are not electable however).

[EagleEye]

72. Indecisive?

I'm not sure. :)

[Sagan]

46. You Deanies and Clarkies make me want to puke...

You sound like Rove-created spin doctors. Shame on all of you. I like Dean AND I like Clark. But if those two have followers like I see here, then I'm having second thoughts.

[eileen_d]

62. I like Dean and Clark too

It doesn't help for either side to be saying "Liar, Liar."

[Jawja]

77. Thanks for this topic, as

"Face the Nation" comes on at 11:30 in my area.

I look forward to seeing Dean, as he is on my "very short list."

:bounce:

[NashVegas]

111. *Applauds*

Thank you for that.

[janekat]

80. DEAN is a Republican!!! Have you heard about his environmental

record?

[Renew Deal]

82. Ii heard the Sierra Club...

says it's toxic.

[janx]

89. Do you have a link for this?

I'm curious and want to find out where and when the Sierra Club said this.

[janekat]

116. I'm going to start a thread about this....

I have several articles and links about this issue. I don't want it to get buried in this thread.

I'll warn you - it will make your hair curl....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. I Don't Think He's A Puke.....

I just think he's mean....

Which is one of the few things in life worse than being a Puke.....


It's the little things about folks that reveal their character....

Before Wes Clark announced his candidacy Howard Dean said Wes Clark was a "good guy" who knows alot about defense...

Now that Wes Clark announced Howard Dean says Wes Clark is a "Republican" who "supported the war up until October...."

"Prosperity conceals character... Adversity reveals it."

Mean people suck...

[w13rd0]

93. So Dean says Wes Clark is a Republican...

...who supported the war, but also says he's a good man. Thus, Dean is praising a Republican, and you want to hold that against him, when Clark was fundraising and praising Republicans just a few months ago. OMG, whatevah...

I'll admit that I've found the behavior of supporters of some rather tiresome. The "it's my candidates nomination to claim, and everyone else should get the hell outta the way because my guy can do no wrong" attitude is pfftt...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. He Distorted Clark's Record

Clark has never been in favor of a unilateral invasion....

To suggest otherwise for petty partisan political advantage is calumny....

[gully]

99. he said he supported it until October right? Which would mean

he had issues about a unilateral attack...?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. Clark Has Always Opposed A Unilateral Attack

He said the decision to attack Iraq without a United Nations mandate was "the greatest strategic blunder in American military history."

[gully]

95. Isn't he allowed to tell the truth about Clark? How's that mean?

If it's true, it's true, and WE should know about it.

I missed the interview, but these are noteworthy facts, that most people are not aware of. Granted us DU-ers are, but we are more educated then the average Jane/Joe.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

91. VERY Disappointed

I have been a staunch defender of Dean, and he has been my #2 choice for quite a while.

No longer. His intellectually dishonest attacks on Clark are disgraceful. I will still vote for Dean if he wins the nomination, but I am incredibly disappointed to discover that someone who I once thought was a genuinely decent man is in fact an everyday, ordinary politician desperate to get elected, just like nearly all the rest.

DTH

[bicentennial_baby]

92. Check this article out, DTH

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Sep/09282003/nation_w/96682.asp

"To grow the party, we need to accept people who have just come into the fold as new Democrats. That should be the end of the matter," said Gordon Fischer, the Iowa Democratic chairman. "The only way we are going to be able to succeed is by attracting Republicans and independents to the Democratic banner."
Joe Erwin, chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said he, too, hoped that candidates would not engage in "potentially divisive" attacks on Clark. Most voters in the state's Feb. 3 primary, Erwin predicted, would pay little attention to Clark's Republican past.
"I welcome new Democrats. You don't have to be born into this party," Erwin said. "Now he's committed to the principles of the Democratic Party. There is plenty of room."

[DoveTurnedHawk]

101. Good, Sensible Article

Unlike the view of so many purists here.

:thumbsup:

DTH

[gully]

103. What was dishonest? I ask again....

:shrug:

[TacticalPeek]

115. Sincere and free advice.

The Dean pugnacity can be beneficial for his campaign, but only when used in moderation and the right context. I think he needs to be more careful and controlled with it.

Schieffer was tough with his grilling of Dean. I was not comfortable or impressed with the way Dean handled this, and I think it can be a problem for him in successfully getting his message across to the general audience. And he needs to succeed at getting his message across because his personality and fiesty jabbbing at aWol will only get him so far.

I know all the candidates are busier than I can imagine with their campaigns. But Dean really needs to devote some time to actually practicing his response to hostile questioning, with expert coaching and feedback. Just like a doctor needs over time to study, train and learn new procedures and techniques.

From my armchair, he seems to have a Mike Tyson button that reporters and debaters have no trouble punching, and rarely is that response effective, especially on tv. He needs to work on more of a judo, or akido response. Go to the tapes, study Clinton, Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, Bill Richardson, even Trent Lott etc. He must learn to handle the attacks more smoothly and productively. Then when the rare, appropriate occasion presents itself, firing off the big guns is much more effective. This is not self-betrayal or changing who you are. It's growing to meet the challenges, changing the theory based on new facts.

I want Dean to do as well as he can, and he obviously has been doing pretty good already. But there is a long road ahead. aWol looks weak and vulnerable now, but next fall he conceivably could be stronger (?), and we need to send our best, at their best, against him. Dean needs to practice this hard now so he can fight at his best if he gets the nod.

Now, all the above is directed at style, not so much content. I must say I was extremely pissed and surprised at the content of his attacks on Clark, and really think they were beneath Dean, or at least my impression of Dean so far. Clark is my top choice now, based on my perception of his chances to topple aWol, and his positions and vision for the future. Dean is way ahead as my second choice now, and I would hate to see him decline in that position due to poor interview technique or uncalled for cheapshots at any dem competitors.

I just watched Powell with Judy Woodruff. He handled her perfectly, and refused to bash Clark despite repeated egging on. Too bad he employs his skills in service to the dark side. Our guys need to hone such skills and use them in the fight for the good.

:)

[Cha]

131. Oh yeah! The murdering, killling, lying, colin powell is good

with judy judy judy and this is great ..where as Dean doesn't suffer fools and is honest in his reaction to the likes of fu=king bob schieffer and Dean should go to school on it.

I'll Dean anytime, anywhere, any place.