Why I ignore the NAACP.

[SouthernDem2004]

As most know I am a Police Officer. I have been personally involved in two incidents where a suspect claimed he was arrested and abused by Police because he was black. The suspects contacts the NAACP and they send people down that like to cause a scene. They get on TV, radio and newspapers and scream about how their poor innocent clients where abused and framed by the racist Police. Sad thing is some people actually believe them. Of course the Police can not respond because our attorneys tell us not to. For days and weeks the media is bombarded by the NAACP's rhetoric about the evil Police and their poor innocent client.

In both incidents the NAACP fell suddenly silent and was no where to be seen after discovery. Why you may ask? Because we gave them the audio and video of the incident that showed their clients were lying and guilty as sin. Did the NAACP go to the Press and tell everyone they were wrong? Of course not. Did the media say anything about the allegations being false? Of course not.

What we are left with is false statements and out right lies left unexposed. As a result some members of the community have a false belief that the local Police are racist.

So all the NAACP did was to foster and encourage racisim. They lack the ability or willingness to admit they were wrong. Are some Police racist, you bet. Is the public served by letting the NAACP get away with such slanderous statements, heck no.

When the NAACP learns what integrity is then I may listen to them again.


Peace

[zanne]

1. Like the NAACP,

You're sticking up for your own. I'm sure you've had these two experiences,but I don't believe for a second that every black person who's complained of racial profiling or abuse has been lying. I support my local cops, but I know they aren't perfect.

[SouthernDem2004]

3. I never said eveyone was. I just expect the NAACP to admit when they

are wrong and avoid the damage done by false accusations.

[Laughing Mirror]

2. Well then why don't you go public with the audio and video

if it gets you off the hook?

[SouthernDem2004]

4. It is against policy. Attorneys will not allow such due to the

possibility of a civil suit.

[Laughing Mirror]

11. Spare me.

I've seen those TV shows where they use police footage chasing suspects, arresting them. If they can show their shit, you can too.

[SouthernDem2004]

14. No we can not. When the NAACP is brought in they always threaten

civil litigation.

The footage used on Cops and what not involves incidents where complaints have not been filed.

[Laughing Mirror]

19. uh-huh

If you refuse to exhibit your evidence, I guess you got nothing to substantiate your claim, do you? Your word against theirs? I trust NAACP before I do you.

[SouthernDem2004]

25. Did you read the original post? They no longer claim there was any

racisim. What exactly are you believing then??????? The Police do not say there was racism. The NAACP does not say there was racisim. What are you talking about?

[Laughing Mirror]

37. I read your post, but you apparently didn't read mine

I did not mention racism once.

If NAACP shut up after you showed them the audio and video, which exculpated you from abuse, yet you still want to make an issue of the incident, then you are going to have to show us the video and audio that you provided NAACP so that we can decide for ourselves.

I will not take your word for your accusations, just because you claim to be the police and you claim what you say is so. I need evidence. Prove it or you have no case.

[Kerrytravelers]

46. Read your post... that's funny...

The op didn't read anyone's post. All one has to do is read the posts and the responses.

Oh, but this whole thread was to open up civil dislogue... :rofl:

What really pisses me off is the inability to learn. Last year sometime, I made a comment half-way down a thread that I never dreamed would be considered offensive to anyone. I was taken aback, but I continued to dialogue with those who responded. I learned a lot from those who took time to dialogue with me. It not only opened my eyes to a different way of viewing something that I never even realized I wasn't seeing, but in my particular line of work, it made me far more effective in dealing with the needs of my students. I have spent much time at the DU group of those who taught me, I have thanked them and I continue a dialogue that I have found particularly rewarding.

I am here at DU for several reasons. One, to vent my frustration. To surround myself with like-minded individuals from all over the globe. To form and strengthen a network of activists. And finally, to learn and grow as a human being.

Although the point has clearly been lost on the op at this time (things may somedsay change for him), I hope others are able to learn and grow from this thread.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. did you send a copy of this to the NAACP ?

[SouthernDem2004]

8. Nope, they were there. /nt

[BuddhaGirl]

6. wow, so you "ignore the NAACP" based on these couple of

experiences??

Yeah, just forget about all they've done for blacks in this country.

The NAACP is not perfect. Neither are the police. BTW why did you capitalize "police officer" in your first sentence? It's not a proper noun.

[SouthernDem2004]

13. If I know an organiztion is prone to such poor behavior why whould I

listen to them...

Yes, the NAACP does some good but that does not excuse it from the harm it does.


Also, I capitalize Police, Officer, Cop, Liberal and many other words that are not proper nouns. Call it a quirk.

[BuddhaGirl]

23. by your logic then,

I should just ignore the police.

After all, they do some good, but it doesn't excuse them from the harm they do. :shrug:

[SouthernDem2004]

28. Sure, your choice... I choose to ignore the NAACP and gave a reason.

If you choose to ignore the Police then more power to you. Its still a free country.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

35. Pfft, calling me a racist...

and yes that applies to the Police as well.


Pathetic calling me a racist. You are basing that on what? I guess civil discourse is beyond you.

[SouthernDem2004]

38. Ok, I am done with this topic. I am tired of being called a racist.

Clearly it is becoming harder and harder to have a civil adult conversation on DU. I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss but I am getting to many replies calling me a racist and stating things I clearly did not.


Peace

[Kerrytravelers]

7. Wow.

So, the quick reaction of a couple will make the entire organization invalid?

I don't know the incidents you are directly referring to. For sake of thousands of posts where you work hard to convince me you are correct in your analogy, I will assume all you say is true.

That being said, you would find completly null and void all this organization says because you disagree with the actions of a small group?

I think the history of the NAACP warrents some merit in this conversation: <http://www.naacp.org/about/about_history.html>

I also believe that a look at the history of the African-American experience in this country warrents some consideration. Understanding the relationship between some in law enforcement and some African-Americans (I dare say more than "some", but for arguments sake, let's say an unspecified number and/or percentage) would then be to understand why such a quick move to defend one another.

[Kerrytravelers]

16. Might I suggest contacting the NAACP directly with your concerns.

In all my dealings with the NAACP, I have found them to be professional and very open to dialogue. If you contact them as an individual and ask to meet with them, I am sure they would be more than happy to sit down and hear you out. They will tell you where they are coming from. It may take several sit-downs, but it could prove to be a very rewarding partnership, not a contentious one.

[SouthernDem2004]

17. I did not state such things. Reread my post.

I stated why I ignore the group. Never used the words invalid, null, void or and other things you claim I stated.

I see no need to comment further since your post contains such.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

33. Sad, personal attacks and insults...

You claim I said things that I clearly did not. People can scroll up and see you are making false statements. Heck, I do not even reply to two of your posts.

If you can not have a civil discussion without name calling and making false statements then please do not bother replying to any of my posts.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. I think the NAACP is very important, but you touch on something tragic.

While the NAACP has done many good things for a lot of people whom have been subject to racism, they don't vet their cases properly. Unfortunately, they run the risk of becoming the boy who cried wolf, completely undermining cases of true racism, and worse, ruining the integrity of many good people in the process. Like all zealots, their good intentions have become destructive.

[HamdenRice]

15. The NAACP are zealots?

Yes, I guess asking for an end to discrimination is zealotry. That Martin Luther King really was a dangerous communist agitator, right?

[Kerrytravelers]

34. Oh, you know how it is HamdenRice. Speaking up for rights, you're a zealot

Same old, same old. :eyes:

[stillcool]

10. Why I ignore your posts......

[SouthernDem2004]

20. Please do without drama. No one cares if you ignore. Spare the

rest of us that are having a discussion your attempt at attention. Use the ignore option.

[HamdenRice]

12. A post so full of ignorance that it is difficult to know where to begin

I really don't know where to begin to address the ignorance and racism that is reflected in your post. I guess first of all is that your entire approach is to understanding the role of the NAACP is anecdotal. You have had two bad experiences (and if you are even telling the truth the experiences would also have been bad for the NAACP officials, and your entire conception of the organization is from those experiences.

You present no context, no history, no analysis, no institutional memory. That is all the NAACP is to you, a southern white man. I guess everything they have done, from litigating Brown v. Board of Ed, which ended segregation (which you probably believe was also a bad idea) to cutting edge lobbying and research on topics like environmental racism, are obliterated by your bad experiences. To you, in your hermetically sealed ignorance, that is all the NAACP is.

You also claim they just like publicity. What activist organization does not use publicity to get their message out? What should they do, talk quietly to "open minded" police officials like yourself?

And I suppose in your southern town, the police have never, ever abused a black or brown suspect? I suppose from your perspective this has just never happened anywhere in the US.

I don't even know why I wasted several minutes of my life to address an OP that obviously was racial flame bait.

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Pffft, you called me a racist and ignorant. In no way am I ignorant about

my personal experiences. I stated what happened. Please look up the definition of ignorant.

Sorry, I never made it past your first sentence where you called me ignorant and racist. I see no need to read any further.

[HamdenRice]

40. I said your post reflected ignorance and racism and they do

I don't know anything about you, whether you are ignorant or racist or not. But I do know that your post reflects those attributes. Your post takes the perspective that all the NAACP has done is these two cases, which reflects ignorance about just what the NAACP has done in the past and does today. And to reflect that level of willed "notknowingness" -- to the extent of making a gross misrepresentation of an important civic organization -- reflects racism.

You can't know what your post reflect if you don't read the reaction. That's a prescription for never learning.

[not systems]

18. Have you ever seen the documentary about...

Tulia Texas where a state drug agent framed
and falsely accused 46 citizens.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/09/1421208

Thursday, May 8th, 2003
A Look at How a Single Officer in Tulia Texas Arrested 46 People On False, Trumped-Up Drug Charges: Falsely Convicted Suspects Join us in the Studio

In the tiny town of Tulia, Texas in 1999, a single under-cover officer arrested 43 people arrested on charges of selling small amounts of cocaine. The officer had no corroborating evidence in the biggest drug sting in local history.

Forty out of the 43 defendants were black. More than ten percent of the African-American community were arrested.

In some cases, hometown juries later meted out sentences ranging from 20 years to more than 300 years.

Local officials declared the operation a stunning success. 22 of the defendants were sent to prison while others received probation. The undercover agent at the center of the operation, Tom Coleman, was named by the state as lawman of the year.

...



The fact that things like this really do happen is reason enough
to support the NAACP's response. Sure you may be the cleanest
policeman in the whole state but I don't believe for a minute that
your representative of what goes on in general.

[BuddhaGirl]

29. thanks for posting that!

I had forgotten about it. So horrifying.

[WildClarySage]

31. The worst part was that several of the defendents in the case

pled guilty to avoid a criminal trial or because their court appointed attorneys recommended they do so, and their convictions were not overturned when the true facts of the operation were known.

[fortyfeetunder]

21. This sounds like a local situation...

..and not indicative of the global good the NAACP has done.

Not all NAACP offices across the country have participated in this type of rhetoric. Maybe it was your experience that has tarnished your view of them, but it is not necessarily the experience of the greater organization.

Using your analogy, I could say the KKK is a benevolent organization because there were a couple of examples where they raised money for scholarship funds.....

[Obamarama]

26. The NAACP in Kalamazoo has been hijacked by a reactionary nut....

A while ago here in Kalamazoo, MI, the deputy public safety chief (who is black) was fired for his role in royally screwing up the approval/bid process for the construction of a public safety substation. There was no deliberate malfeasance (kickbacks, etc..) involved, but it was a huge issue because the contractors were given the go ahead and promised payemnt BEFORE the city commission approved the work. BIG NO NO. I might add that the deputy city manager, who is white, was also fired for this huge, glaring mistake.

The local NAACP president made a huge issue, cited institutional racism and discrimination as the reason the deputy chief was fired, and created a HUGE media storm, and basically riled up the whole community in a most unhealthy way.

What was really nice to see, however, was our 4-term black mayor as well as several black clergy call this guy out and declare him a shrill idiot who did NOT speak for them, and did not have the best interests of the black community in mind. I'm not sure how this guy worked his way in there, but past leaders of the local NAACP have all been very well respected by the community, even when they have had to become very vocal about some very difficult situations. I think this guy won't be at the helm for very much longer.

I think the NAACP is a very important and good organization, if it has a leadership the rest of the community - black and white - can support.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Until racism ends in this country,

the NAACP is NEEDED. Maybe not by you (I am assuming you are white), but by people who are discriminated against on a daily basis.

[Solly Mack]

30. You're confusing cause and effect

Racist cops are what prompts the NAACP to investigate such complaints...the history of cops in the south belonging to the Klan is against you here. The history of police brutality against African-Americans in the south(and the nation for that matter), is against you here.


While I agree that when someone is wrong they should say so, you are using these 2 incidents in an attempt to wipe away years and years of history by blaming the NAACP for how people view the police. Not gonna happen.

It's the history that causes people to see cops as racist...Not the NAACP.

[ecstatic]

36. Why blame the NAACP and not the dirty cops who make all others

look bad?

Just as you choose to malign the NAACP because of certain misteps, others choose to malign all cops because of the gross misteps of some cops. Look, I've seen it first hand. I am a Black American. I've seen my mom pulled over for DWB while in white communities (thank goodness we moved to another state where that is less of an issue). I've seen my college friends stopped and harassed for RWB (running while black). I've seen young black males thrown around and manhandled by police for no reason at all. I know all cops are not bad, but there are a lot who are.

[SouthernDem2004]

39. I am done with this topic. I am tired of being called a racist.

Clearly it is becoming harder and harder to have a civil adult conversation on DU. I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss but I am getting to many replies calling me a racist and stating things I clearly did not.


Peace

[not systems]

42. I don't think that there has ever been a time when...

denouncing the NAACP, a major civil rights organization
is not going raise questions of racism.

Maybe in certain southern police circles that type of
thing is accepted as the norm.

I don't see why you are surprised.

You ignored my post about Tulia, Texas.

Why?

[Horse with no Name]

47. Here is one for your records in Dallas, TX

http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/27/page03.html

>>snip
Racial profiling is one of the most effective Bill of Rights-busting weapons in the illegal arsenal of "law" enforcement. Another is the confidential informant who, for freedom, money and drugs, lies under oath with the full knowledge of prosecutors and police - and often under their direction.
>>>>snip
The problem of out-of-control drug enforcement in general, and the task forces in particular, are as big as the state of Texas, as this admittedly partial list of task force blunders, botches, and crimes from recent years makes clear:

* May 1999: Members of the Hays County Narcotics Task Force shot and killed 25-year-old Alexander Windle in a confrontation during a predawn raid. Windle had twice sold half-ounces of marijuana to a task force informant. That informant, Roy Parrish, a 48-year-old multiple felon, caused the task force to drop numerous cases after it was revealed that he was plying area teenagers with drugs and alcohol.
* July 1999: Based on reports from a shady undercover officer paid for by the Panhandle Area Narcotics Task Force, authorities in Tulia arrested 41 persons, 35 of them black, decimating the town's black community and blasting the town into the national spotlight.
* November 2000: The South Central Narcotics Task Force arrested 28 people in Hearne, all of them black, for small-time drug sales. Within a few months, local authorities had dropped charges against 17 people after finding that their informant had fabricated evidence. Eleven people had already pleaded guilty.
* December 2000: Former Maverick County Narcotics Task Force member Wilbur Honeycutt was sentenced to 15 years in prison for shooting a Mexican immigrant in the back. Honeycutt shot and paralyzed Monje Ortiz as he fled back toward Mexico after being caught attempting to cross into the United States.
* February 2001: The Capital Area Narcotics Task Force lost Deputy Keith Ruiz, shot and killed during a plain-clothes drug raid. The target of the raid said he thought the police were burglars.
* April 2001: San Antonio prosecutors dropped at least 33 drug cases after four San Antonio police officers were arrested in an FBI sting. The officers had believed they were providing protection for cocaine traffickers. Another three cases were dropped after a suburban Balcones Heights police officer, John Beauford, was indicted in a similar but unrelated FBI sting. Beauford was former supervisor of the Alamo Area Narcotics Task Force.
* June 2001: The director of the Texas Narcotics Control Program, which allocates federal funds to the various task forces, was demoted after an audit finds $44,000 in questionable expenses. Robert J. Bodisch Sr. plied local law enforcement officials with golf outings, plaques and alcohol at various conferences.
* September 2001: The 81st Judicial District Narcotics Task Force in Wilson County lost officer Albert J. Villarreal of Poteet after he was indicted and jailed for filing false reports, fabricating evidence and abusing his position. The indictment alleged that Villarreal trumped up drug charges against 15 people.
* October 2001: The Texas Observer published a blistering expose of the Chambers County Narcotics Task force between Houston and Beaumont, which it reported as having a "well-earned reputation for greed, sloth, inefficiency and corruption." The Observer's three-month investigation of the task force revealed "that task forces like the CCNTF amass impressive statistics by focusing the majority of their efforts on street-level dealers, all but ignoring dealers further up the food chain." The Observer's description of task force internal case logs described its targets as "row after row and page after page of black defendants, most of them street-level crack dealers."
* November 2001: The Denton/Collins County Task Force had at least six members facing criminal or disciplinary investigations endangering potential prosecutions. Denton County prosecutors cited problems with the task force while announcing they were dropping cocaine possession charges against former Dallas Cowboy Michael Irvin.
* December 2001: The Capital Area Narcotics Task Force shot and killed19-year-old Antonio Martinez as he lay sleeping on the couch of a home being raided. The unarmed Martinez was not the raid's target
* January 2002: Dallas County prosecutors were working to dismiss 59 large-scale drug cases after it turned out that the drugs involved were not drugs at all but pulverized sheetrock. All of the cases involved two Dallas police detectives and a confidential informant who was paid $200,000 for his efforts. Thirty-nine people, mostly Mexican immigrants, were arrested. Three remain in custody, while others were deported. Many accepted plea bargains. The FBI is now investigating.



Nah we don't need no stinking outside agencies investigating these types of claims in the South. We take care of our colored folks just fine.:sarcasm:

[HamdenRice]

44. If you are tired of being a racist .... don't be one

It'a amazing how quickly you will cease being called a racist after that! It's like a miracle cure!

[Lannes]

41. My concern with the NAACP

Is that that I believe they should devote more time to building a larger African-American entrepeneurial class.Counsel young African-Americans and those who have had their jobs outsourced how to start their own business,join with wealthy African Americans and others to help bankroll these ventures however small.

I realize that affirmative action is necessary until something better is found but I dont believe they are doing enough to encourage the people that they are representing to get to a point where something like affirmative action wont be needed.Education reform should be more agressively pursued to put more funds in communities that dont see as much invested in local schools because their tax base isnt as wealthy as others in their area.

There are some cases where I believe affirmative action has been apllied unfairly but thats not often the case.From what Ive seen.

If they have been focusing on building new businesses than I apologize.If that is the case they should either expand the program or do more to call people's attention to it.

As far the OP's topic their mission isnt to defend white people.They might have been wrong in this case but I dont believe they encourage racism.

[KG]

43. heh.

:eyes:

[Obamarama]

45. Good lord...the reactions in this thread are absolutely PATHETIC

SouthernDem2004 is not the bad guy here.

I think his question is simple. Why didn't the people making the fuss and accusations publicly recant those accusations AFTER they were proven to be UNFOUNDED?

I would HOPE that the NAACP would create absolute HAVOC if there were substantiated abuse by the police. I would also expect that if that if it was found that the abuse was NOT substantiated that they would make just as public a declaration in stating that they were WRONG. What's so difficult to understand about that?

I'm sorry...generations of past discrimination does not mitigate civic responsiblity TODAY.

[Moderator]

48. Locking...

This is flamebait.


DU Moderator