"Deliberate childlessness" ... my husband and I, since the 70's..

[Maat]

have apparently engaged in something as bad as being GLBT, per some Southern Baptists ... and it is a HUGE sin.

http://www.bpnews.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=1910


(This PFLAGer is just joshing ... but I warned everyone that they wouldn't just attack late-term abortion, but would be attacking ANY family planning, about two or three years ago.)

I'm so frustrated ..

The religious hardright seems to be about carrying the plans of the mega-rich around the world to destroy the middle class.

If every couple had to carry every pregnancy to term, we would have parents caring for HUGE families, with one parent having to stay home, and the other working three jobs. Neither the parents nor the children would have an opportunity to earn an education, which is one of the most important factors in determining economic class.

And this retired social worker wants to know why Rick Santorum want every poor women to have to work constantly and carry every pregnancy to term, while wives like his are locked up in the home. Are we going back to the days when each megarich man had his property, a Stepford Wife, at home, and the poor women were compelled to be his steady supply of playthings?

What is the effort by the evil cabal (the neocons, megarich and religious reich) really about?

P.S. We're probably really BAD - not only did we deliberately elect not to have children naturally - we adopted at 40!

Sorry - end of rant (P.S. I'm angry at the religious reich extremists - a tool of the Booshistas - not any one particular faith).

[freeplessinseattle]

1. Yep, recently I was told that I should reconsider being childfree

(I'm 33) bc the US is facing an underpopulation crisis (wtf?). I'm not sure what religon the person is who told me this, but I know he's religous. I couldn't believe his gall to make it sound like it is my Patriotic Duty to breed.


Like you, I may adopt in the future, when I'm ready. going through pregnancy however is not at all appealing to me, my mom had a rough pregnancy, and being nauseous daily is not my idea of a good time just so I can carry on my gene pool. That sounds so narcisstic, especially when there are so many wonderful children longing for loving homes. I have great respect for your decision.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. The one I got

Was that it was the duty of intelligent women like me to procreate because the world was getting "dumbed down" by all the less intelligent people with their large families. Seriously. There were also some serious racist overtones in the guy's commentary. We were at work so he couldn't be blatant about it, but he definitely intimated that not enough people of, you know, the right color were breeding. :wow:

[DELUSIONAL]

32. Yep -- that's the same one they tossed at my husband and I

who are childless -- BY CHOICE.

We do have furkids.

For us this was the correct decision -- now we don't have to worry about the guy who is worse than Nixon or Raygun coming to take our kids to fight his wars.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

49. LOL 'furkids" okay, I'm stealing that one!

[Withywindle]

42. I think there's usually a racist component this kind of "thinking"

If you're the Master Race, it's your DUTY to breed. If you're of the "wrong" kind, well, it's OK to sterilize you without your consent, etc. The nasty stench of eugenics isn't gone, unfortunately.

I'm not talking about just Nazi thinking either...look at the history of this country.

[loyalsister]

53. Positive Eugenics

as opposed to negative eugenics (sterilization, marriage restriction, etc).
If they are working to fullfill a mission started in the early 20s, then they are suggesting that people of good stock should procreate as much as possible in order to create a "superior nordic race."
That was the American term.
http://www.americamagazine.org/BookReview.cfm?textID=3515&articletypeid=31&issueID=479

Notice one of the early marriage defenders:

Eugenics, Sterilisation and Modern Marriage in the USA: The Strange Career of Paul Popenoe
This article uses the fifty-year career of Paul Popenoe as a lens through which to examine the North American eugenics movement. Popenoe, a leading advocate of compulsory sterilisation in the 1930s, became a celebrated marriage counsellor in the 1950s, famous for the Ladies' Home Journal feature ‘Can This Marriage Be Saved?’ The ease with which Popenoe metamorphosed from a champion of sterilisation to an expert on marriage was made possible by, and helps to reveal, deep ideological affinities and organisational connections between eugenics and marriage counselling in the United States.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/gend/2001/00000013/00000002/art00230

[Maat]

40. Many, many, many children who need loving homes.

Don't anyone lead you to believe otherwise.

[saracat]

2. Boy, do I relate! I am bad too! We didn't really decide but I

became unable to have kids. I didn't really mind as I don't want them. My maternal instincts, such as they are, I have never liked babies, are spent on my cats! And this preacher can stick it where the sun don't shine.Many of us are happy to be child free and he would force us into a life of his choosing. Another example of why I will never again darken the dooe of a church! And you are correct. They want to outlaw contraception as well as abortion. It is obvious.

[Cobalt Violet]

25. I could have writen your post as everything you said applies to me too.

I can't stand the constant question about when I going to have kids? I really don't like kids.

[madeline_con]

36. I cannot understand why...

so many people want to force people to have kids when they don't want them.

Isn't the whole idea of having babies WANTING to have babies?

These wackos do NOT get it.

[Taxloss]

3. It's a sick mentality.

Savage desert politics transplanted to the modern world.

Oddly, from a different angle, I also feel it is my moral prerogative to raise as many children as possible and Mrs Taxloss feels the same way (in fact, stronger about it). As an atheist socialist mixed-race couple we want to raise at least four kids. The more mixed kids the UK has, the less viable repatriation is. And it's more leftists fr a planet that needs them.

[acmavm]

4. Only two points to make here. 1) I always tend to wonder when these

crazies and crackpots use 'anonymous' people for examples of whatever it is they're talking about. "One woman said..." etc. Then they come up with something totally outrageous and off the wall. No middle ground example like "we like our freedom, we can't afford it". Nope, here's what you get.

<snip>
One woman asked: "What would the return be on the investment? Are there any laws that would require my children to pay for my nursing home when I am old? Are they going to be a sufficient hedge against poverty and loneliness?" A return on investment?
<snip>

But then he does throw out a name. Does anyone else wonder if this person really exists????
<snip>
Deb Schum explains, "If we had kids, we would need a table where the kids could do homework." Clearly, children aren't a part of their interior design plan.
<snip>

But from my perspective (and I have children) the guilt from bringing children into this world with these crazies, liars, murderers, and thugs just breaks my heart. I feel bad that I ever brought my poor kids into the world to face the disastrous mess that the criminal and corporatists, the freaks and the fundies are making of this world.

Those people are perfect justification not to want to have kids.

[wellstone dem]

17. Well, I do have a daughter (adopted)

who was thrilled to hear that she could put me in a nursing home.

I was telling her that if I ever got crabby and unreasonable in my old age (like my sister's mother-in-law) that she should stick me in a nursing home. She replied, "I GET TO DO THAT!" I asked her not to sound so happy about the idea.

[Hello_Kitty]

33. Oh I know! Who talks like that?

Totally bogus. I don't believe he interviewed anyone for that article. He just conjured up imaginary childless heathens in his mind and scripted some contrived dialogue for them.

[PowerToThePeople]

72. I agree completely

"But from my perspective the guilt from bringing children into this world with these crazies, liars, murderers, and thugs just breaks my heart. I feel bad that I ever brought my poor kids into the world to face the disastrous mess that the criminal and corporatists, the freaks and the fundies are making of this world."

This is exactly why I will never father a child. It would be criminal for me to willingly force an innocent child to endure the life that they would currently live on this earth. Yet, I am the "breeding stock" that a-holes such as R. Albert Mohler Jr. want to breed. Caucasian, college education, etc. Buck, fuck him! I will live my life, MY LIFE (NOT YOURS ASSHOLES!) the way I want to.

Thank you very much.

[rainman99]

5. My husband and I were at a neighborhood party and talking

to a woman who was pregnant. We asked if she was going to have
anymore and she said 'That's up to God'. GEEZ. Can't we just
have normal conversation, anymore? People didn't used to talk
like that.

[Island Blue]

24. Wow! I didn't know God did THAT!

Except for the one time of course. :sarcasm:

[Ikonoklast]

27. She calls her husband

"God"? Damn, he must be good.

[madeline_con]

39. "Damn, he must be good."

Some women yell, "Oh GOD Oh GOD Oh GOD!" :evilgrin:

[bluestateguy]

6. They're the next target

After the gays and feminists, of ocurse.

I don't know if I'll ever have kids. Some days I like the idea, other days I just can't see my self doing it. I respect people who make the decision to have children--even many children--if they are committed to being good parents.

All I ask if that such people respect my decision not to have kids, if that's what I decide to do.

[SmokingJacket]

10. You've got mine respect, whatever you do.

I have kids, but I don't think it's for everyone. Some days, it's not for me.

I wish I could have multiple lives, so I could have one in which I dedicate everything to a career, another I could dedicate to overseas relief work, etc.

:hi:

[FloridaPat]

7. It's about putting women back in their place. I heard Santorum this

morning about how a "stay at home wife" is not looked upon as a honorable job and it's because of the feminists that it is looked on this way. I agree about the attitude about stay at home wives. However, this has been going on for 2000 years in the Christian religion and about 1200 years with the Muslim religion and how many millinum with Judians and Buddahism etc. Women have been bred for centuries to be dumb and beautiful. But here we are in the 20th century and 21st and we are as equal to men in almost everything but the love of war. The genie is out of the bottle. Women know we can do anything. For centuries a man's opinion of women is that he can do everything better. And we proved them wrong. And they don't like it. And Christianity can't handle it either. Just wait til it hits the Muslim nations!

[rainman99]

8. OH, I know people in that group and they want us barefoot,

pregnant and submissive.

[Maat]

9. Thanks for the replies, DUers! FloridaPat ..

I think that is the bottom line; the genie is out of the bottle - and they are frantically trying to get 'er back in.

Maybe they are hoping that college grads will just die off or something.

They are dreaming; we will never go back to the days when parenthood was not planned .. at least the vast majority of Americans.

[madeline_con]

43. They need future soldiers, so...

anything they do to make it hard to prevent having kids is great.

[Maat]

50. So true (n/t).

[wellstone dem]

14. Gee, but if a woman

on welfare wants to stay home to take care of a child, she is a horrible person.

[MountainLaurel]

66. Ms. Magazine

Had a great cartoon to that effect several years ago. In the first panel: A bunch of white men in suits were lecturing a white woman in a business suit with a baby that "You're a bad mother because you work outside the home." In the second they were lecturing a brown woman with a baby that "You're a bad mother because you don't work outside the home."

The hypocrisy boggles the mind.

[raccoon]

67. Absolutely, and these same people think if a woman

is a SAHM and her husband is bringing home the bacon...she's second only to the Virgin Mary.

I don't have kids and at the age I am now (50's), nobody asks me about that.

If you don't want kids, don't have them.

I don't think we'll have to worry about population decline in the US, or for that matter anywhere else.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Count me and my wife amongst the sinners since 1980.

Not to mention my first wife and I, married in '67.

Producing more consumers seems a tad selfish considering the number of people dying of hunger related causes daily.

[kestrel91316]

12. Not to worry, Maat, there's an upside to all those kids if birth control

is not allowed, and we all plunge into Dickensian poverty............the vast majority of the little kiddies would die either as infants or small children, or maybe as preteens or teens, and rarely would any live to adulthood.

See? Not so bad after all, huh??

[HockeyMom]

13. They don't like the idea of childless by choice,

they don't even like the idea of ONLY two kids. Once again, it all comes down to religion. The propose of sex, IN marriage, is for procreation. It is a "sin" to thwart god's will to use birth control and defeat the purpose of marriage, which in their minds, is to procreate. When you listen to them, they say this over and over and over regarding gay marriage, "because gays cannot PROCREATE".

I wonder in their warped minds, will they require a fertility test now for every marriage license? Sorry, you menopausal women you cannot make a baby, you cannot get married.

This is AMERICA?

[Greyhound]

22. Uncontrolled breeding by followers, making lots of little followers is

one of the most important principles of religious control. BTW approaching a half century free of children and religion. :toast:

[FloridaPat]

26. Followers and soldiers. Got to keep those recruiting stats up.

[ovidsen]

15. It's stealth racism.

The anti-abortion, sex-for-procreation-only crowd is distressed that the number of white babies being born in the US is dropping compared to African, Hispanic, Asian, etc, babies. Oh, most of them don't come right out and say this, but.

They also may be a tad jealous. Imagine making love just for the sheer THRILL of it!

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

16. Religious right hardheads...

They need to realize that having a large family with mom staying at home isn't for everyone. The days of Ward and June Cleaver are OVER, and things aren't exactly cheap today! (Think real estate, gas prices, and medical costs.) I have two sisters who are childfree (one is career-focused, one is gay), and they hear crap all the time. The younger one (37) always hears "So why haven't you settled down and had a family yet?" She tells people..."Because I choose not to. That's my choice."

I get similar flak because I am a mother, but I work full-time. People have actually had the gall to ask me why I don't stay home with my kids. I choose to provide financial support to my family, which enables me to make sure that they have everything they need, including decent health care, and an education. It doesn't make me a "bad" person...it means that I care about investing in their future.

[supernova]

18. The RR want more WHITE babies

They what to keep WASP ethnic superiority in the population. That's the real heart of their agenda. But they can't say that openly, so the couch it in "right to life" lingo.

That's why you hear that white upperclass women should stay home more. Get marriend and have more babies and minority women and other women of color, well they can just go get a job.

That's why you hear about how rotten it is about "the breakdown of the family" They aren't interested in the break down of any family that isn't white.

That's why you hear about how awful it is that women take birth control. It's not about what you or I want. It's what they feel they have the right to take.

Well, fuck them!!

[Hardrada]

51. A pox on the WASPS!

I am always amused at their pretensions since they are not as Nordic and Aryan as all that. And their better qualities come from my people, the Norse and the Normans, our beloved cousins. It was a little chancy mating with the Anglo/Celts but it did not turn out so badly!I could care less if they bred out to extinction at present if the Shrub family typifies them.

[annabanana]

64. HEY..... WASPS were just born that way, too you know...

racially speaking (not the "P" part)

[Hardrada]

68. True, we can't choose our ancestors.

I,for instance, would like to have had a bit of Scots blood also.

[SeattleGirl]

19. What do these kinds of people think of...

...people who CAN'T have children? Oh, I know, they probably think they should adopt, but it's isn't always that easy. One of my siblings has been unable to conceive, and she wanted children so much. They did look into adoption, but gad, the hoops they had to jump through were incredible. I think they finally gave up, because of the hassle, and my sis and her hubby are two of the best people you could ever meet. Those people who put down the childless probably think they committed a crime or something.

As far as I'm concerned, having or not having children is as much a part of being "pro choice" as anything, and I commend people who chose not to have children because they either don't want them, or don't think children would fit into their lives well, or maybe they came from such a crappy childhood they don't think they want to chance being parents themselves. The reasons don't matter. What matters is what that person/couple want to do. Same with couples who cannot conceive. If they want to adopt a child, go for it. If not, fine. Other folks should keep their noses out of it.

I have one child, who is now 25. I knew right after I had her that I did not want any more, not because I do not love her, but because I knew that was all I could handle. I did not exactly have a happy childhood (though there were many good times in there) due to my father's alcoholism. I think that played a direct part in not wanting more than one child -- I still had so much work to do on myself to straighten out how screwed up I was back then that I could not handle the thought of more than one child to take care of. Anyway, when I decided to have a tubal, my doctor asked me what I would do if I met someone who wanted children (I was by then divorced). I know she had to ask that question, because she had to make sure I fully understood what I was doing. I told her that if I met someone who wanted children, that I would tell him in no uncertain terms that I did not plan to have any more, even by adoption. If he could not handle that, then there would be no future for us. It was as simple as that.

When the man I am now married to and I started dating, I was very up front about it. I did not know at the time that we would end up getting married, but I felt it was such an important issue that he needed to know early on how I felt about it. He did not have any children of his own, but he was the oldest in his family, as am I, and his mom worked outside the home, as did mine. So, he did not feel any huge drive to have children. He was his niece and nephews' favorite uncle, so he had plenty of interaction with children, and was fine with it. Just before we moved in together, I asked him again if he was fine with us not having children. I told him he needed to be as certain as he could, because if he indeed did want them, he needed to give himself a chance for that by being with someone else. Well, we've been married 11 years, and he has never felt regret.

And by the way, he did get to become a parent when my daughter came to live with us when she was 16 and a junior in high school. It was very sudden and literally an overnight thing that happened, but he's been fabulous about it, and he and my daughter really care about each other. But as not not having his own biological child, no problems.

So to all of you out there who have chosen, for whatever reason, not to have children, don't let anyone tell you there's something wrong with you. It's THEY who have the problem! Salute!

[Cascadian]

20. I had this arguement with a co-worker a while back.

A few years ago, I made a conscience decision to not have any children of my own. My reasons for doing this are personal though it is not that I hate kids! I simply do not want to be a father. This co-worker is very religious, married, and with 3 kids. He one day, asked me if I had any kids and I said "No I don't. I don't plan on having anyway either." He was shocked to say the least. He goes "Why don't you want children. Why are denying yourself a gift from God?" I just said, "This is my choice and I have my reasons. It is all about choice!" He still wasn't convinced. The guy spent the whole lunch time trying to do a sermonette on me and why it was sin to think that way! I just smiled at him and shook my head.

As for that stuff about having more children means the mother will have to stay home is pie in the sky and ridiculous. Children cost money! It amazes me how short-sighted the religious right neocons really are!

John

[Hardrada]

21. We did not have children

partly for reasons beyond our control but ALSO because I could see the progressive and peaceful message was not getting across (as early as 1975 or even earlier) and that the cycle would then come around and the reactionary dumb bastards would come to power and any children we might have had would in effect BECOME THEIR HOSTAGES!!

[newswolf56]

23. Your analysis of the Christofascist role is absolutely correct...

in your statement that "The religious hardright seems to be about carrying the plans of the mega-rich around the world to destroy the middle class." What most Americans don't know -- intellectually crippled as they are by the national ignorance of history deliberately inflicted by the (corporate) public schools -- is that oppression of the masses and defense of the oligarchy have ALWAYS been the functions of Fundamentalist religion whether Christian, Muslim or Jewish, and too many times the role of so-called "mainstream" religion as well: note Marx's statements on how religion functions as the "opiate" of the masses.

Furthermore, anyone who has lived in the South has witnessed the collaboration of church and corporation every time the region's venomous anti-unionism boils over into the defeat of another organizing campaign: the Christofascist preachers resoundingly damn union folk and unionization and earn themselves bonuses of obscene "contributions" from the oligarchy. It is not an exaggeration to state that the Fundamentalist preachers are to Bible-belt society what Nazi political officers -- gruppenfuehrers -- were to Hitler's Germany: Fundamentalist preacher or Nazi party official, their job is to ensure the political conformity (and thus absolute obedience) of the masses.

Nor -- as I stated above -- is Fundamentalism the only villain. The entire body of Christianity has been similarly guilty of facilitating oppression throughout its history: note for example the relationship between the Catholic Inquisition and the aristocratic governments of Europe -- a relationship that continues to this day in the relationship between the Church and the oligarchy in Central and South America and has in fact been strengthened by the present and most recent popes. Note that in the French Revolution, the Catholic clergy was considered at least as much an enemy of the revolution as the nobility. The record of Islam is similarly bad: note its vicious oppressions on behalf the global petroleum oligarchy and sweatshop industries throughout the Muslim spheres of Africa and Asia, also its connection with the slave trade both historical and modern. Whether Judaism was so used is unclear simply because (1) modern Israel is a socialist state and (2) the ancient Hebrew nation existed so far back in history, modern socioeconomic analysis is simply impossible -- but the class conflicts implicit in the stories of the Pharisees surely suggest Judaism in its day was every bit as much a facilitator of tyranny as any Yehvehistic religion since then.

The bottom line here is that because of its unique doctrines and their intrinsic blueprint for authoritarian hierarchy, all Yehvehistic religion is potentially tyrannical, the perfect tool of exploitative plutocrats. Because Yehvehistic religion divides heaven and even hell into absolute hierarchies, it is only logical its adherents would attempt to do likewise on earth -- and given the Biblical command for "man" to conquer and exploit all Nature (including the Biblically-damned human females), the nightmare of tyranny and exploitation that follows is inevitable: doctrines have consequences. It is no accident that Christianity gave birth to capitalism -- the parasitic economic ideology that, now feeding on its host unchecked, threatens to enslave all humanity and eventually destroy the planet. It is no coincidence that in the South of the Civil Rights Movement as well as in the decades before, the Ku Klux Klan was colloquially known as "the Saturday Night Men's Bible Study Class." In that South, the South in which I had the profound misfortune to spend about two-thirds of my boyhood, even the mainstream churches were bastions of segregationist venom, while the Unitarians -- the only Christian denomination that dared demand racial justice -- were viciously denounced as agents of Soviet Communism, their church-members assaulted and their meeting-houses trashed.


Edit: first paragraph revised to make relevance to the OP more clear.

[theHandpuppet]

58. Interesting, well-written post

Thanks!

[bobbieinok]

28. 'must have children' is replay of a constant 'whites must have more childr

children' b/c non-whites are 'out-breeding' us

this was an issue in the early 1900s......white women were voting and getting an education and not having 4-10 children......'they were betraying the race'.....non-white immigrants (non northern Europeans) were having 'too many children' .......not having enough children was a major argument vs women getting the vote and getting an education.......

......late 1800s and early 1900s there were many 'scientific' studies showing that education pulled blood from the uterus to the brain so that educated women were not efficient 'breeders'....... and studies that 'proved' voting distracted women from their duty of attending to the children and housecare...

......I wonder sometimes about the studies that show women athletes do not menstruate regularly......is this a 'subtle' warning that athletics and especially Title IX is 'making women unable to breed'?????

you can see this sometimes in comments about the large families Hispanics, Muslims, blacks have.......'they are a danger to us, ie., to the whites (especially males) who are the only approved rulers of the world'

what are the statistics????? when will whites become a minority in CA?? in TX??? ....... already a minority in many city school systems (Baltimore?? New Orleans?? and ??)

[Hello_Kitty]

30. The whole backlash "marriage panic" is racist at it's core

All the scares about the shortage of men or putting off marriage and childbearing until it's "too late" are directed at Caucasian women. As is the anti-abortion movement. They want poor white women to provide babies to rich families.

[MikeH]

31. Sad that such assholes are in a position of power and influence

First those religious reich types are obsessed with certain ideas, like the idea that the Bible is absolute, infallible truth that dare not be questioned, and that God is like Adolf Hitler, offended at any deviation from his grand plan, and will condemn to hell for all eternity those who miss out on accepting Jesus Christ as their savior in this lifetime, or who otherwise go against his grand plan.

Those people feel it is their goddamn business to say what is right for everybody, based on their narrow beliefs which are not to be questioned.

It is hard not to get upset that people like that are in a position of power in society, thanks in large part to *. I feel very sad in thinking what America in large part has regressed back to after the enlightenment of the 60's and the 70's.

I recently ended a 30 year friendship with a fundamentalist Christian who supported * in 2004 as well as in 2000. He was never "in your face" about his religion or politics, and he accepted my becoming disenchanted with fundamentalist Christianity and later with Christianity in general. In 2000 he had expressed a wish that we could stay friends and talk about things even if we disagreed. However for me his supporting * a second time was more than I could accept, and after letting my friend know how I felt, he and I mutually agreed to end our friendship.

My sister and her husband go to a fundamentalist Christian church, and I know they supported * in 2000; I think but am not sure they supported him in 2004. I am closer to my brother-in-law than to my sister; my brother-in-law has often been of practical help to me. So far I have been able to agree to disagree with my brother-in-law; I have not talked about politics or religion with my sister. I have some anxiety about family gatherings with them in the future; I don't want to start any disagreement, but I hope to say what I think if someone else says something that really bothers me or that I really disagree with.

Maat, I think I met you at the DU gathering in Van Nuys last year. I think you are the one who then had the screen name LawStudentMom. I am tall, if that helps you to remember who I am.

[Maat]

35. Yep. That was me.

I was the one with the kid and the hubby.

Hope that you've been doing well.

We should organize another get together.

I was hoping that we could have it further south this time.

Orange County, Riverside County, North San Diego.

What do you think?

[madeline_con]

34. What is the effort ...really about?

Maybe the intent is to make the U.S. just another 3rd world country where the resources, both economic and human can be easily exploited.

That seems to be the way the crew running us now likes the rest of the world to be.

EDIT: P.S.

Kudos on doing what you want to do, regardless of "expectations", etc. :)

[Betty]

37. So it's not enough to use birth control

and be responsible and not add to the number of abortions, even preventing an unwanted pregnancy from ever occuring is not good enough for these assholes. They want forced parenthood. Truly loathsome people.

[Maat]

38. Thanks for all of the replies.

I just wanted to let people know that the very efficient propaganda machine of the Religious Reich is at it again.

And, yes, I do believe racism has quite a bit to do with it.

And, having been a social worker for seven years, and now working for a defense firm that aids parents in 'social worker' court (dependency court), I do think that there is a major incentive for the counties to encourage adoption.

I sincerely hope that this does not translate into more poor children being taken into custody, and more 'no reunification' plans; I will be working to ensure that our cases go through fairly and appropriately.

And, I say that as an adoptive parent.

But my baby was essentially abandoned ('here, take her, I'll come back when I get my act together;' that time never came). So, I adopted her in good conscience.

She has seen me experience all sides of the equation.

Are you ready, folks? She wants to be a social worker when she grows up! I'm trying to talk her out of it.

She's 8. Maybe I have some time.

[alarimer]

41. If you are bad, I am the devil

Not only do I NOT have kids (at 37 I have to admit I am not likely to, not that I really want to anyway) but I am single and I occassionally have sex with people I am NOT MARRIED TO! I am going to burn in hell for sure. But you know what I don't care. Those people can kiss my ass.

[Arugula Latte]

44. I know what you're all saying, but, I'm sorry,

it IS a shame that the fundy/religious nutcase fringe wackos are outbreeding the sane, intelligent people by a massive factor. We are only going to become more and more outnumbered as these people keep cranking out the homeschooled, indoctrinated offspring.

[tsuki]

45. It's the old Klan mentality. They want everyone white (whom they are

convinced are the only ones not having children) to pop one out every year. That way the "other races" won't overtake the white race.

[Maat]

46. To those not ready to have children.

Mr. Maat and I waited 15 years - didn't think we wanted any - until Her Royal Highness was placed in our arms.

So, sometimes things change.

My hubby went from 'I don't want kids' to 'Don't you know that she likes her Minnie Mouse blanket better?' He turned into a marshmellow, and she's the most pampered child bar none on Earth.

Many, many children need homes.

I won't lie. Adopting in the U.S. is no carefree picnic. I took a six-week class, and my home was inspected. I both worked for CPS, and had them coming to my home monthly (another county) for a year. I 'took Beloved Daughter' early on in her case - so I gambled a bit. Made use of my spine (my courage). But it was well worth it.

International adoption involves less involvement by a social worker situated here in the states, but presents its own challenges, although my friend (who ironically is a San Bernardino SW) adopted two Chinese infants. Each adoption took her about 3 months as I recall. She would stay in China each time for several weeks, I believe.

I think the key is PLANNED PARENTHOOD. That option has always been available to me throughout my life; I want it for my daughter.

I came of age in the 70's too. I never, never thought we would go backwards. I was naive.

[REP]

55. And Sometimes, They Don't

When I was 9 years I old, I told my parents that I had decided that I didn't want children. To their immense credit, they didn't say, "You'll change your mind." They said, "If that's what you want, good for you."

That was 31 years, one tubal ligation and one endometrial ablation ago. I never changed my mind. As a matter of fact, I know lots and lots of men and women, just like me, who never changed their minds and when teir contraception failed ... they knew well advance what they would do if such a thing happened. Most of became sterilized as soon as we could find surgeons who didn't think we'd "change our minds" or "meet someone who wnted children" (didn't ever occur that 'someone who wants children' is not going to be my partner?).

Birth control and abortion services are absolutely essential. Not everyone will change their minds; in fact, about 24% of US women chose not to have children. We're not going back.

[Maat]

60. No question you are right!

That's why I'm donating monthly to NARAL, and donating to Planned Parenthood.

That has ALWAYS been the point - planned parenthood, IF ANY parenthood.

What are the opponents of that thinking?

[wli]

47. basically KKK/Nazi Aryan eugenics bullcrap

They'll come out with the miscegenation and forced sterilization garbage soon enough, with further doses of "God made women to be axolotl tanks" biblethumping.

[ellie]

48. I prefer the term "childfree by choice"

and these religious wackos can kiss my ass.

[Mad_Dem_X]

65. That's the magic word: CHOICE

Right-wingers cannot stand the thought of women making their own decisions, especially about reproduction.

[Greylyn58]

52. So I guess women like me who can't get pregnant

will be of no use to these whack-jobs...except as some play thing or perhaps as an underpaid nanny for their "brood"!

Or maybe we'll just be done away with as being useless member of this new religious society!

[friesianrider]

56. And apparently it's "sick" to love your dog...

"Another woman in the Atlanta group explained, "You focus those motherly feelings elsewhere. For us, our dogs get all that love." That worldview is sick, but more and more common."

Yeah, what can be more sick than showing one of God's innocent creatures love? Fucking sinners. :eyes:

[Maat]

61. I noticed that; I laughed and thought the same thing.

Yeah, forcing children into the world to suffer when they are unwanted - now, that's o.k.

But loving your pet, and giving it a good life, that's nutz!

O.K., sarcasm is off now.

[Dastard Stepchild]

54. I don't have kids, but I've never had anyone call me on it...

I know people must say something to other people because I see people on DU mention it all the time. But it has honestly never happened to me. I must run with a different crowd.

I must be somewhat naive or sheltered about this matter.
Do people really care this much about something so irrelevant to their own lives?

Wait.... what am I saying? :)

[AtomicKitten]

57. There is no such thing as late-term abortion.

I am in the medical field and there is no such thing as a late-term abortion. It is a red herring to bamboozle the squeamish. Occasionally at approximately 18 weeks when an amniocentesis is performed and Down syndrome or some sort of catastrophic congenital abnormality is detected, a woman elects to abort, but that is rare. The truth is the fundies want to outlaw ALL abortions. They simply aren't honest enough to just admit it.

[Maat]

63. Well-put. That's what I was trying to express.

And they don't want to prohibit just abortions, I think that they actually want to consign every family to have about six or seven kids. The family will be poor. And this retired social worker knows that child abuse and neglect will increase. Big families tend to lead to parents that just cannot cope; I know that probably many DUers have successfully grown up in large families. Some parents really really have it together. Unfortunately, many don't.

My mother-in-law grew up in a huge family; she is only close to one of the siblings really.

And the System is at the breaking point already in terms of taking care of abandoned, neglected and abused kids, and finding homes for them.

I guess what I was trying to say is that - if they complained about late-term abortions, I could raise your point.

But now the rightwingers are all over the place, and most don't want ANY planned parenthood-related tools available. To conduct a discussion then just seems impossible.

Take care!

[BedRock]

59. Seems like the RR is practicing...

..Science? (sorry for using that dirty word)

Is this a question of "values" or are they actually practicing Animal Husbandry?

I am one of those who did not want children and made sure that I did not. So the only thing I am good for is a uterus? Cool. I guess that means that women are to do nothing but incubate, rear/raise children, cook, keep house.

Excuse me.....I have to go find my burka.

This country is beginning to scare the shit out of me.

[Maat]

62. I think that is the idea.

I'm going to have to find a LARGE burka, until I lose my weight.

It sucks that it has to be black; I like different colors.

[BedRock]

69. Hey! Not only black, but...

...they come in Blue too! I guess it depends on which country/tyrant you order from.

[Bridget Burke]

70. Current fashion trend: The Mylar Burka

Works much better than the Tinfoil Beanie!

[BedRock]

71. Funny!

:rofl: Thanks for the early morning laugh! I will be using that allllll daaay long.