Hellooooooo.... am I alone - but isn't the REAL plame story being missed?

[salin]

I posted this on two threads in LBN. Totally overlooked in the noise.

Please read. Am I missing something - barking up the wrong tree - or is the REAL BIG story being ignored - not only by the media - but by us?

Remember... How the media chooses to frame a story changes what they report.

Here is the repost of my post... Please read and comment on its premise.

-----------------------------------
What kills me about the coverage on this story is what they DON'T say...


what was compromised.

An information network tracking the industry flow related to WMD.

In the first place it appeared there was a brief discussion of how long it takes to put compromised intelligence gathering operations back on track.

Get it?

What is the real threat the US faces right now? It was not Saddam. It was Al queada and international terrorism.

The idea pushed by the administration - that there is a danger of WMDs falling into terrorist hands - was real. Just that they misapplied the threat and projected it upon a desired target.

Think back to a year ago.

There was a big push to the war vote.

Two weeks or so after the war vote the information about North Korea and their weapons development progress came out. There was a brief outrage because the information had been known for a short while (one month? two months?) by the administration but was held back during the discussions on the war resolution.

Why? Because a 'maybe they have them' threat was the center of the war resolution, while a real threat (a rogue country led by a tyrant who is characterized as capricious in nature and thus very dangerous; a country in economic disarray - thus with an economic incentive to deal with terrorist organizations; and the possibility that they could be producing and selling a small number of nuke weapons in a very short time) was known - and was not discussed.

The (brief) outrage was, in part, due to the fact that the threat of WMDs falling into terrorist hands... WAS (IS) REAL. And that political maneuvering obfuscated that fact, ignored the real threat for the 'maybe' threat, and left the US at risk.

Flash back to the current story.

We learn there is an active CIA operation that tracks WMD technology flow through industry. After 911 and the recognition of the potential threat of WMDs this operation becomes even more important. Vital to National Security.

We learn that political operatives - high up in the White House - willingly compromised that entire National Security intelligence operation - for political gain for the president.

THAT is the story. Not that a highup broke the law (that is a side story - and an investigation and arrest should be a by-product). The REAL investigation - if we were serious about national security - would be an assessment of the damage done by the leak. Should be the assessment of the danger to the US increased by interuption of intel on WMDs. Should be an assessment of what is required to replace that intel asap.

The White House - compromised the War on Terrorism.

And that is the aspect of this story that I have only seen refered to a single time in the press.

[LittleApple81]

1. If you look at the several threads discussing the attacks/counterattacks

on the diverse candidates, you'll see why your post is being drowned.

Other people have discussed it, but I had not seen your point being discussed before. GOOD POINT!

[salin]

3. they are focusing on the leak - and its legality

they are NOT FOCUSING ON WHAT WAS LEAKED and what it implies.

Rove - or whoever - directly compromised national security.

In time of 'War' (albeit an amorphous 'War on Terrorism').

Does it get much bigger than that?

Folks - the legality won't penetrate the public's mind.

The fact that of compromising the War on Terror - will.

[leesa]

6. The War on Terror is a bunch of bogus bullshit!

Same as the War on Communism and the War on Drugs. They simply provide cover for colonialism/resource theft, the overthrow of governments not US bidness friendly and for military waepons sales. Don't fall for this shit!

[salin]

7. You are missing the point

bogus or not. They sell it as real. And there have been terrorist strikes on the US and US interests. WMDs are also real. We happen to possess much of them, but it is real.

Most importantly we have a nation that has been lulled into a trancelike state over the issue. Someone counted the number of times Bush used the word "terror" in his last speech. Superflous use? Yep. Intentional? Yep. Effective? Appears to be.

So this story - is big. This story says the WH was willing to compromise intel around what they keep throwing around as the biggest threat (i happen to believe a threat exists - just not in the way that they throw it around). THIS WOULD RESONATE with the dazed public.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Not only that..one has to wonder if the outed this individual on purpose

since the info that was compromised could very well involve complicity of those profitting MOST off of the WAR ON TERROR.

Remember the name Vistor Bout? Tied to terrorism and mentioned by Kerry's advisor? Those who benefit MOST from terrorism are those who benefit most from the WAR ON IT!

[salin]

21. I don't remember the name

recap for me?

I hadn't thought of that. That compromising the WoT keeps it going. Good point.

But, I think this was Rove (got his start playing Segretti) who made this leak as a political move. I don't think he thought about it or cared about it in terms of net positive or negative effect vis a vis the War on Terror. He made a calculation on how to protect his puppet.

The quote by the WH official in the WP today was telling (and Josh Marshall picked up on it). They didn't stop at 'it was a mistake' went on to say it was a mistake because it was ineffective (in protecting bush). Suggests this was just a political maneuver.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. But everyone EXPECTS political maneuvers out of them

which makes me think the real story could be MUCH deeper.

Victor Bout is a Russian arms trader well known by the CIA. He is literally UNTOUCHABLE and has had many many contacts with Americans in his trades in Africa.

He was largely the subject of ONE of the articles in the Center for Public Integrity articles on the illegal arms trade (Remember: Making a Killing: The business of War)

I think it would be much more embarrassing for the CIA to have concrete evidence of how American arms manufacturers have compromised our own security than it is to sacrifice someone in the admin to a crime that, once again, Bush can claim he had no part in.

[salin]

30. Normally I would agree with you

but on this - the signs point to Rove - and he is devoid of any kind of thinking beyond political shenanigans. If you are right, than it was someone else, not Rove, pushing the story. Then again, they do keep saying TWO high up WH officials.

You are right about the arms manufacturers role. That, I fear, will NEVER make its way to be a central discussion or investigation. Under Bush, nor under any other president.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. Guess I better read all the info from this AM

before commenting further...I didn't watch any of the programs...can you point me in the direction of all the stories?

Being a bit lazy this am....late night and all that!

[salin]

34. Mostly rehashes of the "breaking" story

first posted on msnbc, then picked up by the Washington Post. Josh Marshall's Talking Points Memo followed the press coverage: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com ... He has posted quite a bit since I checked in this morning - seems to be heading in a very interesting direction. Going to have to go read more closely.

But for an interesting read - scroll down to his posting at (September 26th, 2003 -- 11:03 PM EDT // link) (starts late Friday night) - skip the few unrelated entries - and read backwards (chronologically - from then until most recent.)

[Booberdawg]

82. Interesting note from September 27th

towards the end of Marshalls description of the five bombshells revealed by the senior official in the White House that has apparently confirmed the leak by two other White House officials:

It is rare for one Bush administration official to turn on another. Asked about the motive for describing the leaks, the senior official said the leaks were "wrong and a huge miscalculation, because they were irrelevant and did nothing to diminish Wilson's credibility."

How about just wrong, and leave out that they were ineffective?

In any case, this is truly a bombshell and for the first time I suspect someone may actually lose their job over this -- though loyalty being what it is to the prez I still have my doubts. Here's what this means, as nearly as I can see it. Clearly, the White House knows who those two people are. They also know that the wrongdoing did in fact occur. Perhaps most important, the public now knows that they know. Given all that, I don't see how -- in a climate of media feeding frenzy -- it will be possible to keep their identities a secret for long. And once their identities are known ...


-- Josh Marshall

[Booberdawg]

83. Just a hunch -- after reading talkingpointsmemo and news up to today

My suspicians keep leaning toward Rove and Cheney. I'll just go on record and say it. I think I also saw something on "From the Wilderness" website about rumors that Cheney will be dumped for the 2004 race in part due to his lies about the Iraq intel anyway - just seems like he fits in this somewhere.

[Booberdawg]

85. From September 28 (They REALLY shouldn't allow Condi out in public)

She really comes off as an incompetent idiot:


... First of all, Rice denied nothing. It was, in so many words, all no comments. More telling I thought was how visibly rattled Rice seemed. She seemed to have a hard time getting her words out. Her breathing was halting.

To their credit, Hume and Snow followed up by noting that this was a sufficiently serious charge that a bland 'no comment' didn't really cut it. But all Rice could do was awkwardly say that she wasn't going to answer questions because it's in the Justice Department's hands, they're investigating, and that this is the kind of thing that the president doesn't accept. What I took from this is that the White House was stunned by this rapid escalation of events. And they haven't figured out what to do. Or, if they have, they haven't let Condi in on it yet.

[Cooley Hurd]

71. You mean like Perle and his Homeland Security industry conflicts?

Not to mention the defense industry. It's all part of the shift of the wealth from the left to the right...

[Brian Sweat]

96. While I agree that the whole idea of a "war" on terror is

nothing but a propogranda ploy, I think you are missing the point. Terrorism is real. WMD are real. Keep WMD out of the hands of terrorist is an important job. Outing the embassador's wife undermined the job that the CIA was doing and put us all at risk. This is an extremely serious crime.

[NoKingGeorge]

99. Also, Who comprimised the WOT.

Karl Rove would not be authorized to know CIA ids' and duties. Who told K about the agent? Only deserter and Condi are authorized....

[bpilgrim]

2. very damning imo

thank GORE he invented the internet :bounce:

sounds like it is time for another spread the word campaign ;->

good eye :toast:

peace

[LittleApple81]

4. kick n/t

[calimary]

33. Here's how to FURTHER that spread-the-word campaign:

Here are some TOLL FREE numbers for the Capitol Hill Switchboard:

1 (800) 648 - 3516

1 (800) 839 - 5276

They'll switch you, for free, to anybody's office you want.

or go to www.congress.org - where you can get the office phone numbers for anybody in the House and Senate, locally AND in Washington.

But PLEASE, folks, if this story's to have any legs and gain any momentum that might actually do something worthwhile and NAIL some of these scumbuckets, CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN/WOMAN first thing in the morning! Then, if you have time, CALL YOUR SENATORS!!! Better yet, if you have a little more time - CALL SOMEOBY ELSE'S CONGRESSMAN/WOMAN AND/OR SENATORS!

That's the only way they'll feel motivated to get behind this. You can bet there's plenty of pressure to sweep all this under the rug.

[salin]

5. frickin

kick, kick, kick, kick, kick.

Am I wrong? Is this not HUGE and SIGNIFICANT????????????????????????

Framing it this way - does it not expose the belly of the nature of this administration?

HHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO

can any body hear me?

[grasswire]

8. it's plame not palme

Palme is the former premier of Sweden who was assassinated allegedly with the participation of Father Bush.

[salin]

9. Thanks.

Noted and corrected. Now, what do you think of the analysis. Isn't this a story and why is it not being covered this way?

[FreakinDJ]

12. Time for the leaks to begin

Does anyone have a current list of media Email addys and some talking points

[salin]

13. I believe BPilgrim has email contacts

We would have to build the talking points.

[Wonk]

14. link

http://globalfreepress.com/email_the_media.shtml

[Cappurr]

10. Yeah I hear you Salin

and you are right. That is an important angle that has been ignord. Why don't you write to Josh Marshall at talkingpoints. He is doing a lot on this story and if you give him this angle he just might used it. He has used one of my angles once.

[salin]

11. Think I will do that.

The very first article (was it in the Nation?) mentioned the angle - briefly. I need to go back and find it. Thanks.

[pippin]

15. what was compromised?

According to political analysts Al Martin and in response to your query about what was compromised:

“Because of that leak, in an effort to retaliate against Wilson, all of the intelligence network that she (Plame) had built up in Africa and the Middle East in those 26 years was destroyed. All of the people who had cooperated with the CIA because of her have now been liquidated by anti-US elements within their own governments.”

According to Martin, “Wilson pointed out that because if this his wife and their children had to go into hiding and that the CIA was put in a very difficult position that Tenet didn’t want to do it. Tenet understood the repercussions. Wilson said that the Bush administration has placed the life of his wife and children in peril and has destroyed an intelligence network that took decades to build at the cost of million of American taxpayers dollars and has now led to the elimination of more than 70 people, all CIA resources. This was done in an effort to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson.”

“If this ever got cracked in mainstream media, it will open a Pandora’s Box, i.e. this would begin the expose the carefully crafted fabrication of lies the Bush administration used in order to garner public support to go into Iraq.
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=49&contentid=927&page=2

[salin]

22. excellent find

and the angle that the mainstream (protect the bushies) media is choosing not to take.

[Booberdawg]

84. um ... conspiracyplanet?? Not sure that is a reputable source n/t

[FlaGranny]

87. I don't know about ConspiracyPlanet, but

all this has been verified in bits and pieces in other news stories from legitimate newspapers I have read. The only part I'm not sure about is the number of people liquidated by their governments.

[salin]

89. and what 'liquidated' means

probably closing up jobs. Not the more sci-fi interpretation of the word. Had the later been the case - we would have heard about it - THAT would make it into the press.

[Beetwasher]

16. TREASON IN THE WHITE HOUSE

Yes, you are correct about the much larger issues at play here. I responded to your post in LBN too! This whole affair is further evidence of the true depth of serious, deep, treasonous criminality of these scumbags. A competent, ethical administration would, upon hearing of such a breach, launch a massive, thorough review of the apparatus. Heads would roll and roll immediately because the breach is so serious. Something like this would be addressed and acknowledged IMMEDIATELY to the people by a competent President in order to assure them that the situation would be remedied and those responsible would be brought to justice.

The evidence couldn't be more clear that a very serious, possibly treasonous crime was committed by some very high level members of the administration. Plame's name is there in Novak's column for all to see and her position and those of her contacts are irrevocably tarnished and destroyed in a matter of the UTMOST AND EXTREME IMPORTANCE TO THE SINGLE MOST CRUCIAL ASPECT OF US POLICY: WMD'S AND THE WAR ON TERRORISM. The fact that this is the admin's stated #1 priority would seem to dictate that they would be all over this. The fact that the Nat'l Security advisor claims to be completely ignorant about everything in regard to this, especially this far along after 9/11 and after these allegations have been out for several months now, shows 1 of 2 things and there's no other way this can be interpreted: 1. Condi is grossly incompetent to a degree that leaves me at a loss for words 2. She's a serial liar who is covering up very serious crimes.

There's no way out of this for them except burying it and hoping it goes away, and that's what they are trying to do by not acknowledging the crime and refusing to claim any knowledge of it. If they accomplish burying this by having Ashcroft claim nothing happened,it would be an astonishing admission of treasonous guilt by the admin. A Federal crime WAS committed that could be construed as treason. Someone released Plame's name. Someone high up in the admin. That can not be disputed by ANYONE. The fact that the admin. won't even acknowledge or investigate the crime is admission of guilt.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. One of the Sunday morning shows linked the pursuit of this leak

to the pursuit of Philip Agee for revealing highly sensitive sources. It'll be interesting to see if this is pursued as doggedly as that one.

[salin]

23. ah... now that gets a little closer to the meat, doesn't it

by linking the sensitive nature of what was leaked. Not fully there in terms of spelling out to the viewing public WHAT was leaked and what the likely damage is... but it is a start. Any idea which show did this? Would love to look for the transcripts.

[Beetwasher]

29. Further to either the duplicity or incompetence of Condi

What is being done to repair any damage? She mentioned only that DOJ is investigating. How about YOU (Condi) investigating to find the extent of damage and possible corruption of US intelligence networks? What's been compromised? Can it be repaired? Replaced? While I'm aware that these are sensitive issues that the public should be kept in the dark about the details, it would be reassuring to know that she was on top of the situation. Instead, she refuses to even address the issue and refers it to the DOJ. That screams incompetence or complicity. No in between.

[salin]

31. She demonstrates that she is not an advisor on National Security she is a

political shill.

The fact that she appears to be caught off guard by the questions (or so the reports indicate), suggest that she never contemplated national security fall-out.

I agree with all of your questions - but to each one I would put it in the past tense (the leak happened around 2 months ago). What has been done (and why not)....

[Beam Me Up]

38. Exactly

We must impress upon ourselves, our friends, the media, our representatives, the SERIOUSNESS of this situation. Treason is an acusation not to be made, or taken, lightly.

The consequences of this action by members of this administration has compromised national security in a time of war. This administration has known about this breach of security for months and has done NOTHING.

SHOULD THERE NOW BE A WMD TERRORIST ATTACK UPON CITIZENS OF THIS NATION WE WILL KNOW WHO TO HOLD ACCOUNTABLE.

:kick:

[gulliver]

19. Yes, I agree...

And I'll bet this "treason in time of war?" line of development strengthens. I'm hoping it will play out slowly but fatally for the Bushies. First, let the story develop with the treason and revenge lines. Then let's have a DOJ investigator meet the "senior admin official" who turned on the two that did the leak.

Conclusion: Two admin officials brought up on charges of violating the nation's national security laws for political purposes. They will have unmistakably done damage to a central security issue for our time (WMD and terrorist intelligence), and they will have done it to try to cover Bush's "read the fine print" lie in the State of the Union. A perfect storm.

[ninkasi]

20. Salin, you're 100% correct

I think that another part of the problem is the sheer, massive amount of their damaging activities overall. We are fighting on so many fronts, from the leak and it's implications, to the economy, to voting machines, to loss of privacy, that we're becoming overwhelmed.

You've brought up some very valid, very important points. Thanks.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. Kicken it!

:kick:

[RainDog]

24. exactly. that is the real issue

IF Plame is an agent...and it seems that she is since the CIA thinks the situation warrants an investigation.

This is a bigger treason that Benedict Arnold's.

This is the true harm that was done by this vicious political dirty trick, and it is horrific to know that these incompetent crooks are so blind to the good of this nation that they are willing to compromise our national security for political gain.

When I first read this story, I, too, thought it was about the protection act, but someone pointed out then that this was far worse than identifying an agent.

This is about compromising our national security at what this whole administration and all their talking heads claim is an time of war.

So if O'Reilly really no spin? Is he really a patriot, or just a shill? He and every other right wing journalist who tries to claim they are patriots and care about the security of this country are also on the line now, and we should all call them on this issue.

If WMDs are a threat to America, how can they not demand an investigation? How can Ashcroft not turn this over to the FBI? How can Congress NOT investigate this????

[salin]

28. There's the Outrage!

*thankfully, instead of "where's the outrage"!*

:thumbsup:

and one response:

EXACTLY!

[RainDog]

36. this makes it even more criminal

Wilson also said that whoever leaked this information used his wife's maiden name, rather than her married name.

supposedly this is the name she did business as.

The White House creeps could have said "Mrs. Wilson" to protect her cover somewhat, but they chose to do the full treasonous monty.

this should not sit well with anyone, again, who claims that they support republicans because of issues of national security.

but then, you can argue that Bush's proto-fascist cabal is not republican at all.

all the more reason for Americans of all political persuasions to unite to get rid of these dangerous thugs.

[salin]

37. what worries me - is here in this forum

folks are so distracted by calling democratic candidates republicans in a gazillion threads - that they aren't noticing this little (explosive) fact about this story.

How in the heck can we expect the media or the public to pay attention if the forum for discussion on a board explicitly intended to help folks organize to oust W is too distracted to pay attention.

[RainDog]

41. I know. I just yelled at everyone to stop it

and find out about the facts. I have to go now. please keep the Wilson/Plame threads bumped.

I counted at least 15 dem candidate bashing threads, and I didn't include all candidate threads, or ones that didn't bash in the subject line.

seems like there are tons of them today. I can't help but wonder if some repuke operatives are working overtime today.

[salin]

47. whether or not it is operatives - it has the same effect.

:shrug:

[Armstead]

25. It's both salin

It's quite simple really. They did something wrong, that also may have caused a lot of damage to our legitimate defense and security operations.

That's serious stuff, and it ought to be traced back. Was it simply a low-level minion who leaked it, or higher-ups?

Too much common sense for the media.

[juajen]

81. My answer

How many lower eschalon people would know the identify of an undercover cia operative?

[Pepperbelly]

35. absolutely ...

endangering the operations regarding WMD is the big story here. These guys care far more for their party than their country.

[Beetwasher]

39. Idiotic Candidate Flame War Kick!

n/t

[Tatiana]

40. Absolutely

I've always thought that way. Of course the compromising the identity of the agent is illegal and it should be persued. But the greatest damage that has been done has been to our WMD intel. All those connections and all those contacts are compromised. And WHY?

"Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge," the senior official said of the alleged leak.

Sources familiar with the conversations said the leakers were seeking to undercut Wilson's credibility. They alleged that Wilson, who was not a CIA employee, was selected for the Niger mission partly because his wife had recommended him. Wilson said in an interview yesterday that a reporter had told him that the leaker said, "The real issue is Wilson and his wife."

<snip>

It is rare for one Bush administration official to turn on another. Asked about the motive for describing the leaks, the senior official said the leaks were "wrong and a huge miscalculation, because they were irrelevant and did nothing to diminish Wilson's credibility."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11208-2003Sep27.html

How petty and vindictive are these people? Heads should roll over this one.

"Revenge motivates republican White House staffers to compromise national security." Why can't we use that as a talking point?

[salin]

42. Great talking point!

"Revenge motivates republican White House staffers to compromise national security."

[Oilwellian]

76. It should be White House 'Officials'

We discussed this very issue at the dinner table tonight and our conclusions were exactly as yours. It's interesting how the media has yet to touch on Mrs Wilson's direct work with surveilling WMD's and the importance of her work where national security is concerned. I think Ambassador Wilson is waiting for an investigation to start before he absolutely explodes over the airwaves. I've noticed he's been on many political shows lately and he reminds me of a shark circling a piece of bloody meat. I think we're about to go on one helluva ride so buy some popcorn and watch the meltdown that's about to occur.

Thank you for putting this so succinctly and if it's ok, I'd like to send your summary to my various email groups. With due credit of course. :D

[salin]

100. of course - but WillPitt just wrote an article

gets to the point even better.

[catzies]

78. It goes in hand with a statement of *'s about Hussein too!

"That man tried to kill my daddy."

Revenge is a dish best prepared with other people's money. In the case of the BFEE it's taxpayers.

[proud patriot]

79. Yep n/t

[Beetwasher]

43. Something sorta funny in it's incredible irony/hypocrisy in all this:

"Sources familiar with the conversations said the leakers were seeking to undercut Wilson's credibility. They alleged that Wilson, who was not a CIA employee, was selected for the Niger mission partly because his wife had recommended him. Wilson said in an interview yesterday that a reporter had told him that the leaker said, "The real issue is Wilson and his wife.""

Think about that for a second. They were going to try to undercut Wilson's credibility through using a charge of NEPOTISM. They were trying to plant the story that somehow his credibility and his findings were challengable because he got the job (that had NO SALARY or any benefit whatsoever) because of his wife's recommendation. That was the charge coming from this mega-incestuous administration. I find that somewhat amusing...

[Tatiana]

45. The irony is astounding...

when we've got the former CEO of Halliburton who STILL RECEIVES COMPENSATION as a vice-president of the United States. In addition, said company that has a no-bid contract worth BILLIONS from the Dept. of Defense.

Unfuckinbelievable! Where is the FOURTH ESTATE on this one????

[salin]

57. lol... classic projection- wouldn't you say? n/t

[DrBB]

49. The political damage worse than the legal from Shrump's pov

"Revenge motivates republican White House staffers to compromise national security." Why can't we use that as a talking point?

We can, if anything substantial manages to come out of this. And the political damage would be extreme because it goes right to the heart of what is supposedly the Flying Chimp's greatest political asset: the fact that people think he's a warm, likeable guy. An administration that could compromise both an individual person's safety--going after a guy's wife f'r cripessake--as well as national security for shear punitive vindictiveness and temporary political advantage--that's just not the picture they want soccer mommies and NASCAR daddies to have in mind in the polling booth.

[DrBB]

44. Your point is well taken and adds strength to something

....I've been pushing in regards to this: If Bush's hands were clean, wouldn't he be more outraged than anyone? Consider--this is a major security breach from within his own circle, if (right wing pundit) Novakula is to be believed. So why isn't he up in arms about it? Why wasn't the call for thorough investigation coming from Bush himself?

And all the more so, since, as you point out, the work of the agent in question had a direct bearing on one of the worst dangers in the so-called war on terrorism.

[Beetwasher]

46. This is Par for the Course for this Admin

I touched upon this point also in post #16 above. But to expound further:

It's consistent with his actions regarding other things he should have been outraged about. The bad intel for the Iraq war for instance, the intel failures on 9/11 etc. A competent, ethical, scrupulous President would be outraged and demand heads and thorough examinations of the apparatus that lead to such incredible failures of intel. Bush and other members of the admin. seem suspiciously incurious about all these things.

[DrBB]

50. Yes--the pattern is obvious

...and if just once you had such a high-profile, unequivocal instance of it nailed down by an arrest or major resignation it would resonate far and wide through all the similar cracks in the edifice.

[Pepperbelly]

48. ok ...

hey ... isn't about Clark.

:D

There are three problems represented by what was done in this case.

The first is the damage to the country. She was responsible for tracking the flow of WMD and materials for same. That ability is now gone. Whatever she had put together ... poof ... all gone. That could lead to substantial harm in the future. :nuke:

Second, there are the humanitarian costs. Can you imagine how many hits are being carried out in foreign lands by Intell services suspicious that someone inside was involved with Wilson and his wife?

Third, damage was done to a citizen who was exposed not only to the ruination of a career put could well have put her life in danger.

[salin]

58. a three-fer

funny how people can get outraged about one thing, but not another. Here there are three levels. So I think ... well the WMDs...surely we have other intel... then I think about the humanitarian... well they aren't americans..... (but of course many are... but the shallow thinkers find denial a happy place)... then putting her life in danger... empathy kicks in... HEY WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!

Can play that around on three levels were folks can deny (that last one... well her choice to go into that kind of work... but that middle one - what if they go after some poor industry schmuck - not involved in the least but suddenly suspected and assassinated... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!) etc.

[DrBB]

51. Does anyone actually believe Ashkraupf's Justice Dept

...will do anything but sweep this under the rug?

"We are pursuing the investigation diligently," they will say, as they wait with serene confidence for this to be buried under the news cycle of the next outrage++ ad infinitum.

What's needed is for that other "high official" now being quoted to discreetly offer a few names up, maybe. Without new goodies for the press, the bad guys hold all the cards.

[salin]

59. all depends whether or not their keep being other leaks

like the one in the post today. Are enough folks in intel pissed off enough (hey that report today released and scathing on the intel community about the quality of intel pre-war in iraq... they know that the bad intel came from the Office of Special Operations in the Pentagon - but CIA was made the fall guys)... that folks who know just enough info - keep leaking? Then there keeps being some press attention - and the pressure on Ashcroft mounts. Without such a scenario... I would guess that Ashcroft does nothing. But the longer this story gets airplay the more doubts are planted in more peoples' minds about the methods of this administration. In 2004 - that plays well for us.

[Beetwasher]

65. They really fucked w/ the wrong guy here I think,

AND they fucked w/ his wife. Wilson's vert smart and he's been in the business for a loooong time w/ obvious deep Company connections. The CIA has now picked sides, and they've lined up against the admin., that is now obvious.

Tenet would not have done what he did without all his ducks in a row.

Now that I think about it, ALOT of thing make more sense and seem like they might be more coordinated than at first glance. There have been a string of now related scandals and leaks. These are combination punches we're seeing here being orchestrated, no doubt, by the CIA...People are being taken out by being systematically targeted and compartmentalized, Rumsfeld by defending the war and people in concert calling for his resignation, Cheney now w/ Halliburton, and now Rove. Resources are being occupied. I sense a full court press happening...

[salin]

67. Not yet...

or this little drama would have escalated back in late July.

We are still delivering body blows, but they are going to ruthlessly attack on the hill - full court legislative press.

They aren't down yet. But they are much, much weaker.

Two things will keep them growing weaker: more and more of the loyal public is being turned of by this or that item (there are so many - and at each revelation - or each dip in the economy - more 'supporters' disengage and back further away); and two their own arrogance. THey will push too far on one of these things - not acknowledging how weak they have grown. Then the push back will leave them immobilized.

Look at the rhetoric in Iran. We are making THREATS. But to act on those threats we need either the power to do it ourselves (which we don't have) or the UN (which isn't to amenable right now to act fully according to our wishes). They are far over reaching.

The game should be - on which front will the overreach so far that they it will lead to an even more egregious mistake - and from which they go tumbling down.

[quaker bill]

52. I agree

The real story is getting missed. Heads should roll.

[Beam Me Up]

53. keeping this thread off page 2 n/t

:kick:

[never cry wolf]

54. and another kick

:kick:

[newyawker99]

55. Great post salin!!

:thumbsup:

[DifferentStrokes]

56. Shall we impeach him now?

Somebody is paying attention. Get a load of this.

http://www.orwelliantimes.com/#Anchor-(3:-4281

Shall We Impeach Him Now?

This is just too delicious. Bush forced CIA Director Tenet to accept blame for Bush lying in his State of the Union Address. And now, Shazam! -- pay back time. Let's consider the consequences of a real investigation into the outing of Valerie Plame upon Bush's hopefully impeachment-shortened presidency. (A fair bit of the factual information regarding Joe Wilson and his investigation comes from the interview with Wilson by Josh Marshall.) http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/wilson.interview.pdf

Almost certainly a broad criminal conspiracy misled us into Iraq. But this article arises from Bush's Niger-uranium lie. On January 28, 2003, Bush made the following statement during his State of the Union address:

<snip>

If Bush knew of or ordered the outing of Plame, did he commit an impeachable offense?

The President, or other administration officials who have been confirmed by the Senate, can be removed only upon impeachment by the House of Representatives and conviction by the Senate. Impeachment and trial can rest only on "Treason, Bribery or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." (U.S. Constitution, Article II, section 4.)

Since Bush seems to have lied to Congress, then he apparently violated at least two federal statutes. Each violation is a felony, a "High Crime" punishable by impeachment.

18 USC 1001 provides that in matters within federal jurisdiction, any person who "knowingly and willfully (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or (3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

In matters involving Congress, the statute applies to any "document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch . . . ."

The State of the Union address is "a document required by law . . . to be submitted to the Congress." Article II, Section III of the U.S. Constitution states:

<snip>

If Bush lied in his State of the Union address to convince Congress to support him in war, he may have violated 18 USC 1001 several ways. For instance, lying about non-existent uranium purchases would falsify, conceal or cover up a material fact - that the purchase never occurred. Lying also obviously violates section 2 of the statute: "makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation". Knowing reliance upon the forged documents would violate section 3 of the statute: "uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry".

Lies contained in the State of the Union address would also violate the federal anti-conspiracy statute, because the lie would come about through the efforts of many people. That statute, 18 USC section 371, criminalizes acts by two or more people who conspire "either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy. . . ." Violations of the federal anti-conspiracy statute are punishable by a fine and imprisonment not to exceed 5 years.

Likewise, outing Plame in retaliation for Wilson's whistle-blowing is a felony. Violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (50 USC § 421) carries a ten-year prison term. Actually, quite a number of statutes involve national security and secrecy. For an interesting case involving the crime of leaking secrets to the press, see United States v. Morison, 844 F.2d 1057 (4th Cir. 1988).
<much more>

[salin]

60. good find - that looks like a site worth checking out

hadn't run across it before. Thanks.

[dusty64]

61. You are assuming the Democratic

leadership will push an issue that could take our junta down. They've had MANY opportunities to do so and continually back down or make excuses for the chimp and his minions. I think this is a HUGE issue, but just like so many other smoking guns it will slip away.

[Beam Me Up]

62. Defeatism does not serve us

The tide is turning. If we want a certain outcome, then we must PUSH with all that we have, all that we are.

[dusty64]

73. I guess the same scenario over

and over has made me quite jaded. Not to mention that the extremist rightwing agenda HAS been enacted against the will of the People. I've seen this happen many times before and the media will NOT report the truth of this story, remember it is not a DEMOCRAT who did this. I'm sure justice will be served with asscrack on the case, sorry I'm fighting mad but it does little good when no one in power is willing to help (we shouldn't have to do it all on our own ALL the time.).

[dusty64]

92. Story buried at the bottom

of page 5 in my local paper, a bunch of insignificant fluff pieces on the front page. I do recall just about EVERY lie and smear and rumor of Clinton/Gore being prominently splashed across the headlines a few years ago.

[Seneca]

63. bump

eom

[Postman]

64. I disagree.....North Korea got their Nuke technology from Pakistan...

Seymour Hersh did an expose on this in The New Yorker, I beleive.

Nuclear weapon technology is already developed in Islamic fundamentalist Pakistan.

[jimshoes]

66. I think this is the story

that could derail and destroy the chimp's regime. Treason is not something Americans will take lightly. This on top of being lied to into an unwinnable war. The wheels are coming off and that sound I hear is the inevitable train wreck of the * admin.
Kicking :kick:

[salin]

68. And that is why it is notable that the press coverage does not highlight

the aspect of the story that screams: THEY COMPROMISED NATIONAL SECURITY... ISN'T THAT TREASON????? They focus instead on the legal - was a law broken?

[jimshoes]

70. Yes indeed!

The ramifications of blowing an agent cover is that it has compromised an entire network of assets in the field. Very much weakening our nations security as it relates to WMD's.

[PurityOfEssence]

69. Absolutely

It very clearly shows that they will do anything, literally ANYTHING to destroy inconvenient dissenters. How much of a leap of logic from here is there to them "allowing" us to get attacked on 9-11 in order to galvanize their support through our fear?

It also shows that they either don't take the WMD issue seriously or they really know that it's largely under control. It could be sloppiness or arrogance of proof of their deception.

EVERTHING is political with this administration. They poll more than any ever has, while constantly trumpeting that Junior simply wouldn't do such a thing. These are dangerous true believers; as Rand Beers pointed out, they've long since decided what they want to do. Reality, changing situations and any other obstacles to their pre-determined plan is to be ignored.

[frank frankly]

72. KKKarl hates us because of our freedoms!

good analysis. this is very very big.

[MissB]

74. Kick again

Why wait for the press to make the connection? Write letters to the editor, pointing out the real story.

[jimshoes]

75. Kick

A well deserved kick. :kick:

[proud patriot]

77. I'll dare call it TREASON

IMPEACH NOW ! The whole lot of them .

[MiniMoog]

80. bumpity bump

"If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready." - John Coltrane, among others.

MiniMoog

[Booberdawg]

86. What stands out in my mind ...

and not sure if it's related but IF Cheney is one of those involved in this leak, there is the fact that bush* came out a week or so ago and said, in direct conflict with what Cheney said the day before on Meet the Press, that they had no intel to indicate a connection between Iraq and 911. Unusual for this admin to contradict one another - and yet just last night I note another story from Washington Post where Cheney, in contradiction to dubya's contradiction, is sticking to his story! whew! :wtf: What is up with THAT? :tinfoilhat:

Iraq, 9/11 still linked by Cheney

This smearing of Wilson and Plame over the related intel just smacks of a cold, black-hearted, weasel, hard-ball tactic Cheney would pull. But then it sounds like Rove too, so I think they are the two.

[salin]

95. Cheney would never do the leak himself

Rove in a furtive operative way, perhaps. Cheney - no. He was in the Nixon WH. He was around the Reagan WH and knows the importance deniability played for both Reagan and Bush in Iran Contra. Wouldn't count on him getting pushed out over this.

[Booberdawg]

88. back to page one baby!

:kick:

[Booberdawg]

90. Tom Brokaw this morning on Imus

is discussing the danger to national security as a result of the leak by the person in the White House. Isn't even touching on the fact that a law(s) has been broken.

Also, Andrea Mitchell was on earlier. She knows the identity of the source at the WH - I take that to mean the source that broke ranks and leaked the story that confirmed the other 2 sources called at least 6 reporters to blow Plame's cover. Actually I think Mitchell was the one that broke that story.

Why does this thread keep dropping like a rock???

[GCP]

91. Kick

:kick:

[nolabels]

93. You give the purpertrators waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much credit

Ultimately security of many persons lives are at stake here but the evil insidious inbred nature of this beast. People are dying now because of such naïve thinking that it was just a slip that caused this breach.

Many of these people would be thought of as pure evil if the whole and real story was known. I would never pass such things that have happened in the past few years off as a slip. Let me help you out here with a suggestion

The White House - compromised the War on Terrorism.

And that is the aspect of this story that I have only seen referred to a single time in the press.

Could we change or reword the this sentence slightly here to make seem more appropriate

“The White House has concocted the real War of Terrorism.

And that is the aspect of this story that I have never seen referred to a single time in the press”.

There have been several news stories posted even here on DU to prove this point, and this even with DU listed a parody site by some accounts

[Booberdawg]

94. That's not the point - see post #7

[nolabels]

98. That is the point, you cannot prosucute on intent unless you can........

prove it. Looking carefully at leads and such posted and linked to here (yes even on DU) that much egregious and criminal acts are being preformed under the light of plain day, and many shady ones behind closed doors. It is very difficult convict someone because you think you can prove intent.

Many real facts are in front of everybody’s face but they are not being acted on because of an induced fear that they are don't know how to grapple with. This is why many so called “leaders” are is such positions today. They are puppets and yes men that never really had to stand up for anything. They were handed things because they never posed any threat to an identifiable but secretive group of people that they worked with. None the less this loose knit group has assisted in handing it over to them at most every turn

The no backbone issue has been discussed over and over here on DU, but some just don't know how that translates. I am not going to apologize for anybody, being on the bottom also affords some luxuries; one of them is being able to denounce failed policies and agendas of people that dole them out.

The few of the readily identifiable heroes that stood up to the thugs in any meaningful ways were murdered. I am not threatened by this nuclear nightmare they all like to portray and bandy about, I and everybody else is going to pass from this earth eventually. Choosing to go out on their terms or yours, that is the question.

If one cowers only because of fear in someone else’s shadow, they would seem to me no more respectable than that mill bug under the rock. Live to see another day surely, but making it of ones own choosing is what it is all about

[Octafish]

97. You hit the WMD on the warhead.

Nuclear proliferation is not just for rogue and terrorist states anymore. The ex-Soviets supposedly are hustling nukes and mini-nukes to anybody who can afford them. Palme/Plame? and her now-compromised contacts around the world worked to get a handle on all that.

Truly, I appreciate how you put into words the idea that Bushler would the national security apparatus for political gain. That's a big part of it. I fear what seems to be next on the agenda of the Little Turd from Crawrford.

Going by his lack of concern in the compromised national security, coupled with his lack compassion for human life, Duhbya is willing to risk — perhaps even allow — nuclear attack on the USA to keep power. That's Treason.