Is DU Moving To The Center?

[BamaLefty]

By what I have read on here today-- it appears that it is. Turns my stomach.

Please someone say that the centrist views and influx of anti-choice members are just a blip on the radar screen.

[ibegurpard]

1. Happens every time we get too uppity.

Just keep a list of the usual suspects to ignore.

[BamaLefty]

4. Well,

I mean, it seems like every week I see a post about "Am I welcome even though I am pro-life and support the Bush tax cuts?"

I don't know... I'm going to start clicking my alert button more often.

[SouthernDem2004]

16. Thats it! No room for free speech here! Believe what you do or else! pfft

[BamaLefty]

21. Not The Case At All

It's just that there are very many Republican trolls that frequent DU. I simply want to know if they are true Democrats (moderate or not) or Republicans in disguise.

:)

[Pithlet]

24. DU has never tolerated right wing trolls

It isn't a free speech issue. DU is not the government.

[SouthernDem2004]

33. No but what of Democratic ideals?

[Pithlet]

35. Yes. Democratic ideals are tolerated here. n/t

[Just Me]

38. Kindly articulate what you consider "democratic ideals".

I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

[SouthernDem2004]

39. Free speech for one.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. Democratic PARTY ideals, not just Democratic ideals.

Do you know what the Democratic party platform is?

[SouthernDem2004]

61. Well aware, are you?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

64. Oh I'm aware of something all right

but I'm not going there. :-)

[SouthernDem2004]

65. Nice.. Started off with a personal attack although vague but obvious

none the less and now you take the moral high ground. Nice...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

70. I'm still waiting for your answer about the Democratic Party platform

is one coming? Didn't think so.

[SouthernDem2004]

73. Like what? Yes I know what it is, do you? Need a link? lol /nt

[Bouncy Ball]

77. KAZAAAAAM!!!!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

78. Well, what parts do you agree with? What parts don't you agree with?

Do you support Democratic candidates? If so, which ones? If not, why?

:hi:

[SouthernDem2004]

82. Hmmm, that would be a longer response then

I have time for or I think is warranted for someone that has already attacked me personally and is obviously hostile. Your insults and attacks are not as subtle as you think. Heck, you even continued on another thread. (Like the audio link <cough>)

Nothing personal but I choose not to respond to any more of your posts for now. Your purpose is obvious and I am not interested in playing right now. Best of luck...


Peace

[Just Me]

46. Like, the freedom to attack basically good folks while giving the RW,...

,...a free pass. Are you talking about that kind of freedom?

On edit: you're the law enforcement officer,...right? Do you protect hate speech?

[SouthernDem2004]

Yes and no....

I enforce laws... Hate speech can mean many things. It really just depends. I am sure you could give extremes either way but basicly the courts determine what speech is protected and which is not.

[SouthernDem2004]

63. Dupe, I blame repetitive stress disorder....

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

68. Afraid not. I did not think you should have acted so rashly.

If I did not find your post interesting from time to time I would have you on ignore. Relax a little...

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

67. I'm certainly not a 'me too-er' like those in your circle

I see you feel like testing the limits this evening.

[SouthernDem2004]

69. What circle is that? Lol, how often do I agree with the pack?

I generally do not post if I agree with what is being said. I do not see the point.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. Boo effin' hoo

The rules: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Who is Welcome on Democratic Underground, and Who is Not

Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

71. ....

Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

:eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

84. There are pro-life Dems

And who said hating absolutely everything that Bush has ever done was a prerequisite for being here.

God forbid folks should have a different opinion.

And God forbid folks should be exposed to these differing opinions, and experience having to discuss them with someone.

Centrist Dems are allowed.

[annabanana]

2. I think there's some bux involved

with at least some of the influx..

[getmeouttahere]

3. If it is....

I'm not moving to the center with it!

[BamaLefty]

6. Me Either

And I'm not necessarily saying it is. I'm just pointing out some rare occurences that I've stumbled upon.

[rainy]

5. I've been seeing it a bit too. I think it is a "we have to win at any

cost" mentality here. It is not a bad place to be when you look at the options, but, I choose not to go along. I don't want to be a sell out. The centrist DLC has not been good for the party.

[BamaLefty]

10. They Screwed Us In '94

And that's another thing. WTH is there a "DLC" avatar? My God! Do we like to lose?!?!?!

[greatauntoftriplets]

7. Seems to be....

<sigh>

[Dudley_DUright]

8. Not me, I am moving to the left. Watch!

:yoiks:

[applegrove]

9. Does it really turn your stomach that even the moderates are seeing

the light and get active & online because the MSM is too shacky to inform?

Does this really hurt?

Isn't it a good sign?

Big Tent.

[ibegurpard]

11. Big Tent?

Sure...they want a tent big enough for them but they're fine for shrinking it when we get a little too "loony" for them. Feh.

[Sterling]

12. Sure, that must be it.

not

[applegrove]

17. You don't think they will learn something at the DU by getting news

on the real truth behind neocons?

[Sterling]

72. Not if we let them run the place.

They managed to fuck up a perfectly good political party why let them ruin a good board?

Unfortunately many don't seem to be here to learn and often they are given undue influence over the discussion. I don't have time to argue with these people at this point about things that should be painfully obvious.

[applegrove]

75. Surely one cannot call people arguing different policies against

neocons as taking over the place. Surely we are not afraid of the facts or discussion.

As long as we have that - we may learn.

While the freepers will keep on with the Kool-Aid.

[Sterling]

79. Afraid? No. Disgusted yes.

Let us not speak falsely now, the hour is getting late.

[applegrove]

81. You don't think Dems need to discuss R&D and the defense industry?

What areas of technology to concentrate on?

[Sterling]

85. And this has what to do with this discussion?

Is it just me or are you posting to the wrong person on the wrong thread?

[BamaLefty]

14. No.

I want them in our party. Well, correction-- I want their vote. But I want them to shut their mouth and sit in the corner to sum it all up.

I don't want the site I visit to talk with true progressives filled up with Republican lite moderates.

[immoderate]

13. Stay the course!

(Three goddam words and I still have to edit!)

--IMM

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

15. Well, not me... I'm very far left on the political compass.

[converted_democrat]

18. I hope not, I'm still moving to the left. My progress has taken time, but

I'm getting there.

[Inland]

19. What? Centrists? Where? Lemme at em, lemme at em!!!

After so much DU bloviation about how we represent the actual majority of America, not Bush, let's all say something bad about a goodly chunk of voters! Marginalization forever!

[BamaLefty]

23. I'm Not Saying Ban Them

I'm just saying that the last thing America needs is two Republican parties.

I dunno-- I'm just a little frustrated right now.

[SouthernDem2004]

20. It is DU and not LU or PU... Oh I like PU... :)

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

22. Yeah, damn that whole grow-the-party-and-win thing

I am no moderate, but I'm not about to start slamming the door on people.

A group of people marching for a cause who won't let anyone they disagree with join up isn't a movement. It's a bunch of assholes out taking a walk.

Working with PDA, 90% of my mission in life is coalition-building. That means making common cause with people I disagree with who want George and the boys held accountable. It is attitudes like yours that make my job really really really hard.

[Sapphire Blue]

34. But what happens when centrists insist on representing the party...

... with progressive issues taking a back seat... or flat out thrown off the bus?

[cornermouse]

49. This is very disheartening.

The republican party moved to the right during the Reagan era. I didn't. Instead I started voting for the democratic party. I voted for Clinton cheerfully and eagerly. I voted for Kerry because it was my duty. But now I see the democratic party also moving to the right.

My point is that my beliefs in the right to choose, the Equal Rights Amendment which should have been passed but was not, separation of church and state, and a lot of other things have never changed. And these beliefs have been and still are being severely violated not only by Bush but by those democrats who keep going along with all these rollbacks to the past. In the meantime, back at the old DU, we who have voted democratic for at least several elections keep getting told to shut up because if we say what we think, we're going to split the party? :shrug: Hello?

[Sapphire Blue]

52. Not going to shut up here!

http://sf4dean.com/albums/Mississippi-and-Kelly-Jacobs-get-to-meet-Chairman-Dean!/scream4me.jpg

[Sterling]

80. They can vote, just not set the agenda.

To let them do that is/has been suicide.

[papau]

25. what is the bad "center"??? anti-choice is not DU - but able to get

along with pro-life as long as they do not force -through law -their opinion is DU.

Indeed, all of DU is pro-life as far as I can tell - as in helping future generations live on the earth by not messing it up- and helping the poor in the current generation - and indeed by looking for policies that make abortion less needed.

Are balanced budget and defense evil "centrist" views per se? Must the party be in your face with changes that "must happen NOW" in areas that are with less than majority backing?

An idea in Congress takes 8 to 10 years to sell usually if it is a something more than a minor change. Does working that system mean you are a sellout?

[Catchawave]

26. I've always been a Centrist,

but have always played by the liberal rulebook !

[BlueWolff]

29. NOT ME NOT ME NEVER!!!!!!!

[Just Me]

50. So, what are you, then? What do you stand for? What are you willing,...

,...to fight against?

[BlueWolff]

57. I'll tell you where

I am first and foremost against this administration. Bush is now the capo of the Bush Crime Family. He is an ignorant jerk. They are tearing our country apart day by day piece by piece. They have no conscience, they will destroy anyone who gets in the way of them destroying all of the progressive programs in our country. We cannot afford to be centrist, we need to fight them for the soul of our country. I used to live in New York and after Giuliani got finished with it, there was no soul left ot that city. I had ot move. AND...Giuliani is an amateur compared to the Bushies.....
Now that is for starters.

[Just Me]

27. Where do you stand, BamaLefty? It's hard to tell from your posts.

Are you interested in unification against a common enemy? Are you interested in maintaining a hard left eg "for us against us", either/or, attack all the imperfect progressives regardless of the battle against total bastards in charge?

What do you want, precisely? I'd really like to know because I can't get a feel for where you stand when it comes to opposing the most fucked-up regime that has come into power in our lifetime.

[BamaLefty]

32. I Want Everyone Who Is With Us--- With Us

I want Republicans, moderates, fundamentalist Christians, Democrats, Catholics, Gays, Asians, Veterans, liberals, Texans, and Jews... everybody.

I just feel that my way is best. I'm not communist- I'm not even a socialist. But I do believe that the best opposition to this administration are leftist ideals. I believe in a fair America. I believe in a prosperous America. I believe in a secure America. And I also believe that moderation is not the smart step to take in dealing with today's rapidly growing branch of radical, illogical conservatism.

[Just Me]

37. You feel your way is best but you fail to explain "your way".

Mostly, what I have seen you post, is divisive positions attacking anyone on any basis.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. I think the Dems may be moving to the center by virtue of

an influx of moderate republicans who gave the GOP the old heave-ho...and the finger too.

[Sterling]

83. That's fine IF true but they need to shut up and listen.

They obviously have shit for brains because anyone who ever thought W was a good idea was either temporarily insane or a total fucking retard.

Whatever the excuse they are not to be taken seriously in terms of political opinion.

[sintax]

30. Just remember

that what passes for the 'center' in US is quite far to the right and the liberal left, whatever that is, is really a centrist position in the good ole USA.

Is that to the center or to the right or to the left of capitalism?

let us also consider someone whose 'politics' is to the left but whose income is say $100,000/year , wears big diamond wedding ring, drives small Honda SUV, uses coltan driven cell phone but votes 'liberal'. Compare to the low income trailer park man who is an authoritarian prick who is also a racist but uses little of the worlds resources due to poverty. This person could also be a Bush supporter and probably would covet the materials of the mansion crowd but is in fact a much less destructive person on Earth from an 'energetic' perspective than this well heeled liberal.

We could up the ante and compare the low income person who is a rabid right winger to say Kerry or Clinton(s) in the manner of material accumulation and concomitant resource use. Who contributes more to habitat destruction, global warming, and resource wars around the world?

Yes DU is shifting to the center in my view. The real substantive discussions in GD seem to struggle to stay on the board and are visited by the usual suspects. Just my opinion.

[VelmaD]

31. The trolls eventually show their true colors...

and get tombstoned. Just alert on them so the mods and admins know.

DU has survived influxes of "centrists" before and will continue to do so.

[mmonk]

36. Where's this center?

It seems to keep moving right.

[DanCa]

40. I agree the world is shifting more to the right

Seems like it's been this way ever since Christopher Reeves passed away, imo.

[charlie]

44. Eastbound

Try to stay at the back of the crowd while we chase it, the tailpipe fumes can kill you.

[Lorien]

74. Far, far to the right

of where it was 30 years ago.

[sweetheart]

42. DU is moving to the center of the galaxy

Skinner is just about to take off on a space shuttle with the DU
servers, and he will communicate with us from hyperspace whilst he makes
the short journey to the center of the galaxy.

From there, DU will grow to include the democratic parties of all
worlds in the galaxy, and our little voices will be crowded out by
the billions suffering without liberty or democracy.

And then DU will shift to the center of life, and you will
find it inside your own heart and not on the internet at all.

[Disturbed]

48. Are there three factions in the Dem party?

btw this site is not an off-shoot of the Democratic Party.

[sweetheart]

56. Message from Galaxy BGX 29382

. . . stupid people have overtaken our government and are
destroying our planet . . .

. . . Please, if any democrats are in the area of our solar system,
with a large armada of space warships, can you please sort out
these stupid fools . . .

There are 3 factions to our democratic party here on BGX 29382,
one that votes democratic because their daddies did, one that votes
democratic because they hate the other side, and one that votes
democratic because they believe the party might stand for equal
rights.

[PowerToThePeople]

47. Let the righties come.

Their views will show their selfishness, lack of respect for other human beings, and the "I know what is best for you" attitude. Pro-fascist, anti-choice, anti-equal rights views will be shot down with good, sound, logical responses. Either the righty will see this and move left, or continue standing up for their ill-conceived views. If the later, they will join the ranks of the usual suspects and be regulated to the "no need to read this post" position. So, the intelligent ones will slowly move left and the sheeple will get ignored and/or reported to the mods..

[applegrove]

54. Don't all parties move to centre at election time? Are we gearing up

for 2006?

I mean all parties except the neocons. They just move the centre to the right and get the same results.

[Bouncy Ball]

55. Hi from the far left!

:hi: <------------------------------------------waaaaay over here!

I think one problem is that BamaLefty is talking about DU and very quickly talk turns to the party in general. And while there's a LOT of overlap (I think I'm safe in saying 90% of DUer vote Dem), this is still a website, not the party.

Hit alert if you think a poster is violating DU posting rules.
But I'm glad to think more moderates/seeing-the-light republicans are joining us, as long as they understand we are progressives. We are Democrats.

[Mr_Spock]

66. Oh, blah. People try to predict one day to the next - then it changes

Take a larger view - this ebb and flow stuff happens all the time. Happens on a larger scale for the country too - don't get too caught up in it.

[LeftyMom]

76. Not that I've noticed, but I have a lengthy ignore list

Whenever I can't figure out why somebody's here or I find myself thinking "oh shit not X again" everytime I see thier posts I put them on ignore. Keeps my DU time plesant.

[Lannes]

86. Ill tell you what turns my stomach

Posters who assume that all centrists are against pro-choice.It turns my stomach that posters who believe in "my way or the highway","either you are with us or against us".Where have I heard that before?

You dont have a fucking clue about what motivates us.Get off your fucking high horse.All these posts about centrists being in the backpockets of corporations but you dont say shit when the Democratic party funnels contributions from corporate donors to liberal campaigns.

Thats right disagree on one issue or offer a different approach to fight the fascists and that makes us freepers or colaborators


Get your facts straight.Many of us are pro choice,anti-cafta,pro gay marriage but we arent so fucking sanctimonius that we ostricize anyone who offers a different approach to resolving the issue.

Some of us realize that there are some issues that republicans agree with us on like Bolton,like Cafta,like the Patriot act,like the supreme court's ruling on eminent domain.We should be working with people like that.Not getting all high and mighty and refusing to work with anyone
who isnt a card carrying liberal.

Keep up your Mcarthyite tactics.I will fight you or anyone else who says I have to walk in lockstep like a fucking nazi.

I usually try to stay civil but Ive just about had it with all this bullshit.But Im not letting those of you who cant handle dissent run me off.I thought thats what we were fighting against in the first place.I guess some people need to be reminded of that.

[LittleClarkie]

88. You're my hero

Sometimes I think some on our side are as closed minded as freepers. In fact, some I would term "lefty freepers."

[LoZoccolo]

87. I like it when people can't argue about issues...

...so they start arguing about arguing.

[Moderator]

89. Locking

This is flamebait

DU Moderator