"Bush: Intelligent Design Should Be Taught" or Are you gagging yet?

[GreenPartyVoter]

I'm a theistic evolutionist, but I say we should only teach the evolution bit in school.. the theism part belongs at home and church.


WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush said Monday he believes schools should discuss "intelligent design" alongside evolution when teaching students about the creation of life.

During a round-table interview with reporters from five Texas newspapers, Bush declined to go into detail on his personal views of the origin of life. But he said students should learn about both theories, Knight Ridder Newspapers reported.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

The theory of intelligent design says life on earth is too complex to have developed through evolution, implying that a higher power must have had a hand in creation.

http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20050802/D8BNL6OG0.html

[Ian David]

1. Call me on November 3, 2008. I'll be curled into a ball until then.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. No.. don't rely on a corrupt election system to fix this. If you need some

thing constructive to do, work on a small scale in your local area on this, ok: http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

:hug:

[FreedomAngel82]

46. I feel like joining you

Intelligent design is apart of religion. I'm Christian and wouldn't want my beliefs put into school because it's a public school and there are many faiths there. Are we going to allow pagans and Muslims to teach their intelligent design story too? Where does it end? If you don't like public education schools try to go to a private school or a religious school. Even my town has a Christian school you can choose to go to and it's not something where you have to pay high prices to attend like a private school. We all know Bush doesn't believe. He surely doesn't prove it.

[Birthmark]

2. Bush is an idiot

I'm sure that that comes as no surprise to anyone. He really should read another book. Apparently, "My Pet Goat" only confused him about biology.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. *lol*

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. and on the six day God made the dinosaurs

[adnelson60087]

6. I will never teach this non-science in my classroom...

I would just have to be fired. Bush supports this garbage for 2 reasons:

1. His fundamentalist base is rabid for this stuff. The results of actually teaching this would be a hostility towards science.

2. Bush doesn't want people to be more informed than he is!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Welcome to DU :^)

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. LOL

"bush declined to go into detail on his personal views of the origin of life." Too deep a subject for the village idiot. He's just a parrot, repeating what he is told, over and over and over, much like the mindless zombies who support him.

[XemaSab]

33. what I got out of that statement

is that he knew that if he committed himself to a side, the other side would think he was a jerk.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Oh maybe so.

And he is a jerk. :-)

[XemaSab]

42. Well yeah...

:D

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Exactly

It also shows me that he doesn't really believe. If he really did believe he would've continued on and everything.

[ugarte]

8. Yale U. must be so proud

[StuckinBFE]

9. This scares me too

"_Said he hopes to work with Congress to pass an immigration reform bill this fall, including provisions for guest workers and enhanced security along the U.S.-Mexico border."

You have to love corporate slavery.

[Kazak]

10. Only if they teach Giant Flying Spaghetti Monsterism too!

I'd hate for them to have to be burdened with legal action, don'tcha know? ;)

On edit: Arrrrrr!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Bush and "intelligent" in the same sentence is nonsensical.

[Skidmore]

13. He's up to something or working hard to cover something

up. Everytime he tosses out something outrageous he's trying to deflect attention from some other pile of doodoo he's stepped in.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. Good point

I betcha it's the Karl Rove case.

[YOY]

52. and the mores BS he can dish out to cover it

the more important it really is.

Karl is and should be priority #1!

[SheepyMcSheepster]

14. * doesn't have the balls to say what he means

he doesn't have the balls to come out and say "yes intelligent design should be taught because i believe it is right"

he is a punk.

[long_green]

18. Thank you.

His statement is watered down "well, the customers have been asking for it" bullshit.

[Norquist Nemesis]

15. And God drops off babies at parents' front doors with storks

They are His own personal special delivery carrier pigeons bringing bundles of joy to moms and dads throughout the world!

And since science tells us this is a load of hogwash, it must be the Truth! Let me check with Pat Roberton and Jerry Falwell.

[immoderate]

17. Storks drop babies down the chimney!

Get a clue...

--IMM

[Norquist Nemesis]

39. My bad!

Ooops! :rofl:

[elehhhhna]

50. "y7ou kin git preganent from kissin!"

[immoderate]

16. The children should be taught why this is not science.

Of course we can discuss it.

--IMM

[Bellamia]

19. Agree

We can discuss anything. Just because something's "taught" doesn't make it valid.

[alarcojon]

20. If that were what actually happens, I agree

It would be an excellent lesson on the difference between the scientific method and pseudoscience.

But I fear it'll be more like "these scientists say this, these scientists say that, so you are free to believe whichever sounds nicer to you." And guess which one the fundies will choose?

[immoderate]

26. Science is a methodology.

If students are taught science properly, they should arrive at that conclusion independently.

The problem is that most people see science as a set of assertions. Not so. Scientific inquiry leads to conclusions which must be replicated and verified to be added to theory. Good science teachers convey this.

--IMM

[alarcojon]

32. Of course!

If students are taught science properly, they should arrive at that conclusion independently.

But to me that's a big "if." Too many students, especially in fundieland, will not be taught science properly if ID is taught alongside evolution.

[immoderate]

36. Well, you're right about that.

And it's not just fundieland. Most science teachers below the high school level are really reading teachers. (Unless they are physical education teachers.)

That's a problem.

--IMM

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Of course

And what will happen when they get to go to college and decide to go somewhere up north and they take a science class?

[alarcojon]

65. A pain in the ass for the biology prof!

I know several of them, and they encounter this stuff in class all the time as it is.

[TWiley]

21. Why would an "Intelligent Designer" create Republicans?

It seems to me that someone missed the opportunity to swat the mosquito.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. Intelligent design in schools is a great idea

as long as the implication of a higher power doesn't exclude superior alien races as the creator's hand.
:P

I am so tired of the attempts to create an equivalence between "intelligent design" and evolution theories. ID is poorly thought out, poorly documented, and retrofit to scripture.
Evolution on the other hand has been examined, argued and refined and will continue to be so. Not once was evolutionary theory explained to me as proof of the absence of God, so what is so threatening about it?

[KittyWampus]

27. Actually ID Does NOT Postulate A "Designer" Nor Does Is It A Recent

theory.

It's as old as Plato and Pythagoras.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. It's window dressing.

The modern ID proponents have crafted a message devoid of Creationism language after failing in efforts to have Creationism taught in public schools. They are not interested in scrupulous examination of evidence. They are not considering alien races as designers.

It's the same as when dealers started calling used cars "pre-owned." Same product, better packaging.

[YOY]

61. It's not a theory...that is a misnomer

It's a hypothesis. No matter what the ancient Greeks said. They contributed to the creation of science.

I think it was Roger Bacon, standing on the shoulders of the giants of his time, in the 1200s who actually got the scientific process rolling with experimentation and proving your work. Aristotle threw empiricism in the mix to get him started.

There is a significant difference between hypothesis and theory.

It cannot be a theory until it is proven with supporting evidence (ie experiments, reliable documentation.)

[Sapphire Blue]

23. Audio clip from 'Inherit the Wind' w/Brady as "intelligent design's" hero

"Inherit the Wind" (1960)

Henry Drummond Questions Mathew Brady on the Scientific Authority of the Bible





http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechinheritthewind.html

[KittyWampus]

24. Good. Stick To Evolution And Leave Darwin's Flawed Theory Out Of It Too

or better yet, teach both.

Teach Darwinism while highlighting its flaws and its Philosophical basis in Materialism and Reductionism.

Teach ID while highlighting its Philosophical basis in Pantheism (Nature inherently has capacity for Intelligence) and its bridging the gap between the Quantum and Gross levels of Reality.

[moggie]

37. What's With the Caps?

With those Random Caps, you Sound like a Kook.

Why not just say "teach the controversy"? We all know the talking points, we don't need it spelled out. But here's the deal: school science classes teach established science. For example, when plate tectonics was still controversial speculation, you wouldn't have found it on the school curriculum. When ID has amassed a suitable scientific track record, it'll be a candidate for inclusion in science classes. Not before.

[Kraklen]

49. Sound like?

Cryingshame's our resident Creationist.

[Ravenseye]

25. No You IDIOT

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

We're not asking you that, asshole, we're asking you whether a bullshit concept should be taught as science!

Should they also teach that the Theory of Gravity is 'just a theory' and that we should expose our students to other ideas like it's 'Gods Love' that's holding us in place?

AAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH

[Deja Q]

28. It's a VERY simple course:

The teacher needs say only "God created everything. Class dismissed."

If they're going to thrust religion in schools, it should be ALL religions or none of them; letting students pray or whatever during break periods.

[Lars39]

29. Hear that sound? It's the sound of scientists in flight.

That is, if they haven't already fled the dead brain zone.

[AndyTiedye]

30. ID Should Be Discussed, and DeBunked

[jbnow]

31. But what is there to teach ABOUT "intelligent design"

except to say "some believe that behind all the evolution is a creator"

It isn't an equivalent amount of information. It's an idea.

I even believe in it, but there is nothing to teach.

[K8-EEE]

35. GAWD Musta Did It!! GAWD MUSTA DONE MADE US!

HALLALUJAH!

Class, get your number 2 pencils ready,keep your eyes on your own paper please, we are having an exam on Intellegent Design.

1. Ain't this origin of life stuff so dang complicated (yes or no.)

2. Wasn't we made by somebody then?

3. Who done made us?

Enough homeschooling for today!

LOL don't get on my back DU homeschoolers, I'm talking bout the fundie taliban homeschools!

[FreedomAngel82]

55. Same here

:shrug: They just want to not feel left out I guess. I don't know.

[OrlandoGator]

34. Fundies don't know the difference between a hypothesis and a theory.

That is the problem.

[markbark]

38. As I said in another thread like this one... Spiteful Design!

Here's a theory I like much better than Intelligent Design: Spiteful Design!

Think about it--there are so many things about how the world works that are just so fucked up it's unbelievable. Why should we assume that all of them have been engineered by some benevolent intelligent being? Wouldn't it make more sense to see things like earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tornadoes, retroviruses for which there is no vaccine, disgusting and destructive internal parasites, the Bush Administration (redundant, I know) as evidence of a creative force which is, well, in kind of a pissy mood, and taking it out on us?

I demand that Spiteful Design be taught in classrooms along with Intelligent Design and its fellow 'alternative' scientific theories, such as Idiotic Design, Absurdist Design, Totally Fucking Incompetent Design, Holy Shit! What Was I Drinking Last Night? Design, and other similar theories. After all, intelligent design is just a theory, and no more or less scientifically proven than the Sweated Out Of The Frost Giant's Armpit Theory, the Sneezed Into The Great Cosmic Handkerchief Theory, and many others.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

43. So two people who only had two sons managed to populate the whole earth?

where'd there wives come from?

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. That's the nasty bit they don't tell you..

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

59. it sure is nasty

marrying, I guess, your sister to start the entire human race...good times

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Not the whole story

Cain and Able had sisters so apparently they slept together.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

58. ahhh, that sure is intelligent deisgn!

I mean, you'd think g-d would have thought of everything, so why the half-assed response of marrying your sister? :crazy:

and just for clairty, not your response, but the bibles half-assed response

[McCamy Taylor]

45. ALL theories of Intelligent Design. Comparative Religion is Uber!

And it drives Fundies crazy cause their desert death cult just cant measure up.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. Maybe what they can do

is have an optional class if kids are really and truly interested in this and if majority in the school would want it. At my school we had a Bible History class we could've taken instead of something else. Because I'm a Christian and believed in the Bible I enjoyed the class and it was mostly a history type class. The teacher couldn't preach to us since it's public school. Maybe all these people who want Creationsim could have something like that. :shrug: That way the kids don't have to have this class unless they want to.

[Kraklen]

54. I disagree.

I don't think schools should have an extra Creationism class if they want to take it. I also don't think they should have an extra "The Earth Is Flat" class or a "The Value of Pi Equals 3" class.

[FreedomAngel82]

57. Why?

You wouldn't have to take it unless you wanted to. Nobody made anybody take the Bible History class yet people took it. I enjoyed it myself. I don't see anything wrong in having an *optional* class to take. This way if you want to take it you can and it can count on your credits. Of course you'd still have to take all of the regular classes like science, English etc.

[Kraklen]

60. Why?

Because I don't want my tax dollars going to teach kids that the Earth is flat.

Do you?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

62. Shrub and his friends would never send THEIR kids to a school where

"intelligent design" is taught instead of actual science.

[Flying Dream Blues]

63. I missed the memo. I had no idea that Creationism had become

Intelligent Design. I thought this was something to do with Androids or something...help me jaysus!

[Johonny]

64. Hmm

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."


This from the abstinence only sex educator. Exposing to other ideas good as long as they are MY IDEAS!!! What a bastard.