Shrub's status as a Born-Again Christian

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

Do you think GWB is truly a "born-again" Christian, or do you, like me, think the whole thing is a complete sham adopted to support the "Southern/Fundie" strategy of the GOP, and that he is the same mean spirited frat boy bully as he ever was?

The consistency of anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-stem cell, and anti-separation of church and state policies and appointments starts to make me wonder a bit about my stance though.

[LiberalVoice]

1. Bogus or not...

It doesn't change the fact that born again christians love him for the terror he is causing all over the planet.

[carnie_sf]

2. Doesn't matter

as long as he's playing to the fundies we will wind up in the real war to end all wars in the middle east.

[phantom power]

3. Sincere: which is by far the scariest proposition.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

7. I agree that this is by far the scariest proposition. If he really

BELIEVES it, then there is no limits to what he will do in support of the fundie agenda.

If it is expediency, then there are limits. If he sees the pursuit of some fundie policy or appointment as damaging to his own power or that of the Republican Party (which are one and the same, these days), then he will back off.

My feeling that it is a sham is more based on my read of the man himself.

[stopbush]

9. I agree. In fact, Chimpy is pretty much the poster child

for the bulk (not all) of the fundies I know, including my family.

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. Bogus to get the southern/fundie vote.

The whole reason for his 'born again' status in the first place. Planned years ago.

[louis-t]

5. Also the reason he moved to Tejas

in the first place, to get the southern vote.

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. Exactly. nt

[emulatorloo]

6. Part of Karl and Karen's script: Christian, Texan, etc etc.

Which btw Laura Bush so cleverly exposed in her "Desperate Housewives" comedy routine. . .

[blondeatlast]

8. I think he truly believes it, but can't be bothered to study.

It makes him as malleable as the rest of the useful idiots in that camp.

[AndreaCG]

10. After he lost Congressional race

He said he'd never be "out-Christianed" again.

[LittleClarkie]

11. I've seen some sincere born agains who were still messed up in the head

So I'm thinking sincere, but since I also think it's saving him from his alcoholism, he has that black/white dry drunk thing going on that I've run into. God forbid you should tell a born again who's using their faith to stay sober that anything they think related to their religion is wrong, even when it provably is. It's like you're trying to fuck with their life-preserver.

[Dervill Crow]

13. I think he is.

I don't see any sign that he actually knows anything about what Jesus taught or is a mature Christian, but he demonstrates all the signs of having that emotional high that comes with the "born again" experience. I agree with the OP that that makes him dangerous.

No disrespect meant to Christians; I'm speaking as someone who has traversed through the stages of not Christian, new Christian, evangelical Christian, jaded Christian, bitter ex-Christian, to some of my best friends are Christians.

[KamaAina]

14. Bogus, and here's how you can tell.

Genuine born-agains can tell you the exact moment and place of their conversion experience, much like those of a certain age can tell you where they were when JFK was shot, or Sam Malone remembering exactly when he started losing his hair. :-)

But Bush**? Nothing. Maybe he was in an alcoholic and/or drug-induced stupor, but I'm thinking he just thought it'd be really cool to convert just like all of Poppy's rich, powerful buddies were doing. Bogus.

[Goldmund]

15. The issues you listed are all a part of the sham

I don't for a second think he gives two shits about abortion or gays or stem cells or churches. That's just the way they get people to vote against their own interests.

The only thing these guys really want is cash, ultimately.

[KerryOn]

16. Good Poll.....

I think Bush has become Christian because he gets results. He is a power monger.

Bush's oil business failed, he failed in the National Guard and has generally been a F**Up most of his life.

He has most of the "born-again" christians on his side. That gives him a feeling of accomplishment and gives him a feeling of power over the people. He thrives on it, and can not live with out it. He must have power over the people.

It could be that he is (or thinks) that he is a true christian, but his actions say otherwise. I sometime wonder if he is trying to wage fulfill prophecy by starting Armageddon.

By he way Iran refers to the US as the Great Saintan. Makes one wonder if that truly is what Bush is.

[RoyGBiv]

17. Depends on definition ...

What exactly is a "born again" Christian? It's sort of like the argument about what a "true" anything is. Typically, the only "true" Christian is the one the observer deems such, which is to say Shrub could be sincere by his own, internal definition.

My theory on this is similar to my theory on people like some of my relatives. They talk the talk but have never really tried to walk the walk. One cousin is very quick to condemn, openly, anyone she sees breaking "God's laws" by her understanding of them. She fails thoroughly to understand the hypocrisy in the very act of her condemnation.

In short, I think people like Shrub have developed the ability to hold conflicting beliefs without even a hint of cognitive dissonance. His version would include one set of rules for others, and another set for himself and those close to him. It's okay, in his world, to kill civilians in Iraq, in fact to kill people anywhere as long as it furthers his long-term goals. It is not okay for those outside his power circle to do the very same thing.

[journalist3072]

18. My take....

I honestly do not think I am in a position to judge whether Shrub is truly a born again Christian. Only Christ truly knows his heart. I don't have a heaven or a hell to put anyone in.

However, I will say that everything he has done as President, in my opinion, has been contradictory to the values of a truly born again Christian.

For example, Christ admonished us in the Bible that we would be judged on how we do to the least among us. Yet, Bush has ignored the increase in child poverty that has occured on his watch. He has ignored the increase in the number of "food insecure" families. He's ignored the increasing number of people without health care.

We are also told in the Bible that we should not bear false witnesses. Yet, I believe he has bore false witnesses against Sadaam Hussein, who, contrary to what Bush told us, did not have WMDs.