Your Thoughts On This: Teacher Having Sex With 17 Y/O:

[Jon8503]

You know I just can't quite go along with crucifying this teacher over this. I think this is part of the problem we have here in the US with teenage drinking, our sexual hangups. I was in Europe for a couple of years and believe me there is a difference in the mental attitudes of sex and drinking.

In Europe the teenagers seem to have a better handle on drinking as they are taught about responsibility of drinking at a early age. A young teenager can go into a bar as long as he is with his father and have a beer. Talk about bonding.

On sex yes there is more sex in Europe but it is a healthy sex. Sex is good and yes it can and is fun. This is taught at an early age in europe. Am I wrong on all this or what.

This 17 y/o does not agree he is harmed by this. However, look at who is jumping in and saying he is damaged for life.

I am not condoning or criticizing, just making a point about our puritan ethics here. They just might be more harmful than helpful.

[wakeme2008]

1. I have got into a number of fights over the age of consent issue...

Some ppl will fight all night that it has to be 18. IMHO, the society that you live in may have a 15 age of consent and what makes that wrong for your society IMHO nothing....

[CatholicEdHead]

31. Age of consent varies by state

http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html

[AlCzervik]

2. It's the fact that she's an authority figure that bothers me

plus if this was a 17 year old girl and the teacher was male they'd be outrage all around.

[etherealtruth]

6. Exactly ...

...the teacher was in a position of authority over the student.

This is most assuredly not a case of pedophilia or case of consent, but distressing none the less.

[Lex]

9. That's because the consequences for a girl can be pregnancy.

And that makes a difference under the law.

[dsc]

33. bull

because the most outrage would be if the teacher and the student both were male.

[Lex]

34. NOT. I'm not talking about "outrage" I'm talking about the current state

of the LAW. You know, like STATUTES?

Most statutes make the punishment greater for having sex with an underage girl because girls can get pregnant.

I can assure you that the public policy behind the statutes takes that into consideration.

So "bull" is incorrect.


And P.S.---In many states there IS NO AGE OF CONSENT for homosexual sex because it is against the law at any age, or its still on the books that way, despite Lawrence v. Texas.

[mixedview]

35. sorry, pregnancy is not the reason - paternal AND maternal attitudes are

Paternalists/patriarchs on the right want to protect their "property" and control a woman's sexuality.

Maternalists/nanny staters on the left want to protect girls/females from what they believe to be objectification/sexual abuse of women as a class.

Libertarians (small l) like me think both paternalists and maternalists are authoritarian moralists who use "save the children" rhetoric to further their true agendas.

A teacher having sex with a consenting student is ethically wrong because of the power dynamic. It is NOT rape. If it is a crime at all it is a much lesser crime. NOT a felony. Personally, I think incidents like these should just be handled by the school/institution/business.

And age of consent should be 14, IMO - the age of a high school freshman - that is the age young people start to become interested in sex - that is the age when they enter young adult/youth culture which is on "hormone over-drive" - and most will have sex - sometimes with individuals who are older than 18. Most statutory rape cases (like this one) are ridiculous, unfair and unjust - an outrage, IMO.

Beyond that - let parents do their job if they don't want their high school aged kids having sex.

[Lex]

37. Yes, pregnancy is one of the reasons. I promise you.

I've read the case law on it while in law school.

Now it probably includes all those other reasons you listed too.

But the fact is that a girl has the physical consequence of getting pregnant if she is molested and the statutes and case law have ALWAYS taken that into consideration.

[H2O Man]

52. Please provide proof of this.

Such proof would be specific statutes that identify a different legal status for sex with a minor based upon sex, with the possibility of pregnancy being noted as cause for the difference. This would not include specific cases where the law was interpretated differently, with for example a prosecutor noting a risk of a female becoming pregnant. Rather, it would be a law passed by a state that actually states this difference.

I am not saying that you are wrong. I do not know the laws in every state, obviously, and few things would surprise me any more. But in order to say that the laws make this distinction, it is important to back it up with an actual example. Thanks.

[Lex]

58. Google is your friend. A lot of references come up instantly.

This one from NY for instance:

"The State has advanced three distinct legislative justifications for penalizing males for the commission of acts which would not be criminal if committed by a similarly situated woman: preventing psychological injury to emotionally immature girls, preventing physical damage and, finally, preventing the deleterious consequences of pregnancy in minors. The first of these claimed justifications, protecting young females from psychological harm, must be rejected as a suitable ground for the gender-based classification embodied in subdivision 2 of section 130.25 of the Penal Law, since it is rooted in the unfounded assumption that underage women are more vulnerable to emotional harm than are their male counterparts. Such an " 'archaic and overbroad' generalization" (Craig v. Boren, 429 U.S. 190, 198, 97 S.Ct. 451, 457, 50 L.Ed.2d 397, supra, quoting Schlesinger v. Ballard, 419 U.S. 498, 508, 95 S.Ct. 572, 577, 42 L.Ed. 610), which is evidently grounded in long-standing stereotypical notions of the differences between the sexes, simply cannot serve as a legitimate rationale for a penal provision that is addressed only to adult males.

On the other hand, the problem of early pregnancy provides an ample justification for the Legislature's decision to deter sexual contact between older males and teen-age girls by imposing criminal sanctions."

http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/nywhidden.htm

-------


There's page after page of references if you are truly interested.

[H2O Man]

82. Thank you.

I was more interested in if you were able to provide evidence supporting what you stated on a couple posts. You did. Again, thank you.

[dsc]

38. ask the 17 year old in Kansas serving 17 years

for a crime that if the victim had been a girl he would have gotten less than 2. Sorry, but hatred of gays trumps pregnancy fears everytime.

[Lex]

40. Of course hatred of gays trumps pregnancy fears and that's

why my post points out that there IS NO AGE OF CONSENT for homosexual sex in many states and it's against the law at ANY AGE.

My original post was speaking specifically about why the laws are different if it is male having sex with an older female as opposed to female having sex with an older male.

Of course homosexual sex will fall into a different category altogether in the statues in most states and carry a much higher penalty as you point out. That's because in many states it's a sexual crime REGARDLESS of the age of the participants (i.e. NO age of consent exists).

[blondeatlast]

19. That to me is the only issue.Authority needs to respect itself, too. nt

[Prism]

48. Agreed

There are many places where the age of consent is 17. That's not what bothers me. It's the potential for abuse of authority that always alarms me in these teacher/student situations.

Dan Savage had a really good piece about this in his column not too long ago.

[lvx35]

3. Probably true.

Last night, I meet my new neighbor and we got to talking. She was a charming woman, attending a local art college. I thought she was intelligent and attractive, mature. Then I brought up memories of an earthquake that occured in 2000 when I was finishing college. I told her about being in my apartment, 24 at the time She told me her memory, she was in PE class in JUNIOR HIGH! It turned out this girl was only 18, and this was her first place away from home!
The moral of the story is that people can be pretty darn mature by the time they are 18, so freaking out over a 17 year old is absurd.

[Ariana Celeste]

17. No shit.

My neighbors, friends of my SO's at work, my neighbors friends and family- none of them believed I was 20 when I told them. I've had to bring out my ID card for a couple of them. I've been turning down offers to go to the bar for years, having to explain my age. Lol.
Many teenagers are incredibly immature, naive, and just haven't been through enough obstacles to have experience in real life problems- but that isn't all of them. Just as there are many adults who are incredibly immature, naive, etc.
Maturity comes through learning, experience- not through age. Now as far as I'm concerned, 16 and under should be off limits in most cases, meaning... I don't think there is any excuse for a 30 yr old man to sleep with a 15 yr old girl. A 19 yr old with a 15 yr old? Depends on the case. But I agree with you- to freak out over a 17 year old is absurd. There are some people, like myself, who have had very hard lives and have had to "grow up" far too quickly.

I do think that in some cases, such as this one, that there is sort of a problem. An authority figure shouldn't have sex with those they have authority over. But then again, we can look at LeTourneau (sp?)- didn't she get married to the kid she was having an affair with after he became an adult? Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I seem to remember reading about that.

[lvx35]

32. yeah, totally.

Maturity comes through learning, experience- not through age. Now as far as I'm concerned, 16 and under should be off limits in most cases, meaning... I don't think there is any excuse for a 30 yr old man to sleep with a 15 yr old girl.

Agreed. There is definatly a point where everybody is a kid, (or at least supposed to be.) Hell, their are kids who are 35 years old in my opinion! And you got to figure there's soething really wrong with somebody whose attracted to a kid.

A 19 yr old with a 15 yr old? Depends on the case. But I agree with you- to freak out over a 17 year old is absurd. There are some people, like myself, who have had very hard lives and have had to "grow up" far too quickly.

Yeah, that was one of the wierd things about this girl. She was telling me war stories...drinking, partying, freinds into wierd sex and drugs...hardcore stuff. So I thought she was much older because of what she'd seen. But I guess that you're right, the harder life is where the quick maturity comes from!

[1monster]

4. Sorry. She was a teacher and he was a student. Even if he had been

twenty-one going to college and she was one of his current or potential instructors, it would still be wrong.

[Midlodemocrat]

5. I agree with you.

I was 21 when I started teaching high school. There were several kids in the post grad auto body classes of the vocational school where I taught that were close to me in age. I kept a wide, wide berth.

You have an obligation as a trusted authority figure not to abuse your power when you wield it over a 'child'.

[tomg]

12. Absolutely agree with you.

I teach college and it is an issue of power, trust, and responsibility. I've taught people my own age and you just don't date students. It compromises them as students and you as a teacher.

[Lex]

10. I agree with that. A teacher should be above it because

of the power between them is unequal.

[sweetheart]

80. nonsense

A teacher is a human being and consensual sex is a joy, not a crime.

Some students want to learn about sex, teachers make great sex partners,
they're loving and balanced. I can't but complement the kid on his
choice of a teacher for such a fine experience.

[Greeby]

7. Well

Hailing from stuffy old puritannical England :sarcasm: where the age of consent is 16. Something like this is obviously illegal over there, but I don't view it as "immoral" or wrong

[Eloriel]

27. You should

Because it is both immoral and wrong. Not on the basis of sex -- which may be your sticking point here -- but abuse of power, not to mentio trust, etc., as others have discussed.

Back to the drawing board for you. :evilgrin:

[Solly Mack]

8. Well, there is such a thing as abuse of position/authority

Where you take an unequal relationship (be it work, school, what have you) and take advantage of the member without the power or authority

While people can say they won't fail or fire anyone based on a sexual relationship gone bad...what they say they'll do and what they actually do are usually two different things.

Sort of a conflict of interests if you will..

[ultraist]

39. exactly, just like sexual harrassment from a boss

I had a sleazy boss years ago who kept coming on to me and I WAS MARRIED. It made it very uncomfortable in the office. I ended quitting (for other reasons) and reported him. Turns out, I was one of many he had done this too. What a dirtbag.

[carnie_sf]

11. It happens

I don't think anyone should be crucified for it

[tomg]

15. crucified no. fired yes. nt

[countingbluecars]

16. I agree.

A teacher should have enough self-discipline not to let this happen. If not, find a new job.

[VPStoltz]

13. The social difference makes all the difference.

European children grow up drinking diluted wine and see naked models, etc. They are not taught that it is nasty like here. Of course, when a kid is forbidden to indulge that's exactly what they want to do. Teenage drinking IS a problem because they don't know how to do it responsibly. As far as sex, does anyone remember hearing about those rights of passage when a father took his son to a brothel to be "taught" what to do. That was considered a part of the young man's education. My own sexual experiences started with an older person and quite frankly I am grateful for it.

[Jon8503]

18. Hey, know what you are talking about. We were at a festival in

Germany & it came up in the discussion about in Germany some fathers take their sons to a brothel on their certain birthday.

Again I am not advocating anything just saying maybe our attitudes need to be looked at. I just don't understand why we have all this problem here with sex and alcohol versus Europe with their teenagers.

[Splatter Phoenix]

28. "nasty"?

I see scantily clad women on TV all the fucking time, these people need to not run a double standard. Just watch MTV or Comedy Central for a while. These hypocrites in society are unfuckingbelievable....

[Kraklen]

14. Other than the authority figure issue...

I haven't got a problem with 17 year olds having sex.

[Sgent]

20. In Mississippi

The general age of consent was 14 until a few years ago.

Now its 16, with a 2 yr window (ie 15 and 13 are ok), as well as 15&17.

I think it is probably a reasonable compromise. Note for anyone under 14 (like the 15&13), it is technically illegal, but not statuatory rape. Both ppl must go into counseling.

[roguevalley]

22. I don't know which idiot teacher you are discussing but there is one

who was arrested for diddling/drinking and now kids are coming out of the woodwork. A pedo is a pedo, gender be damned.

A teacher has a public trust and they are breaking it. Its going to have to be discussed, whether boys can be raped. They end up like this and people go, "Good on you, boy."

Boys are being abused and people wink. A girl has the same experience and they start making nooses. Honor killings are predicated on the same bullshit attitudes. Under age sex is abuse of minors by adults. So what the hell about biological age and maturity and all the other straw arguments?

If you can't agree that its okay if its your little sister/brother yet still think its no big deal, then its like the argument, "Prostitution should be legal because no one is harmed." If you have a problem with your mom/sister/brother, etc being a hooker and believe this, then you're a hypocrite.

People in positions of power (adults) have no business having sex with minors.

RV, taught 27 years and is aghast at teachers these days.

[RummyTheDummy]

41. With all due respect

These boys were not abused. They were not raped. And as a male myself, I can say with absolute certainty that she didn't have to work really hard to get them to do the deed. Such is the nature of the hormone crazed 16-17 year-old male. Unless you've been one, you don't know what you are talking about. These guys will wear this as a badge of honor for years to come.

Now I will not argue the authority figure aspect of the issue. She abused it. But to say these guys didn't enjoy every damned minute of it is patently naive.

[Sgent]

44. I was replying upthread

to a question about age of consent, and how they are implemented in different states.

As for your example, she should lose her job, and face criminal prosecution for anything such as providing alcohol, manslaughter if the kid kills someone on the way home, etc. I don't think that statuatory rape of a 16 yo is a reasonable charge.

[Bucky]

21. Under no circumstances should a teacher get involved with a student

Some states have lowered age of consernt to 17. But that's irrelevent. The fact that this was a student means that any sexual activity is strictly and entirely off limits. And teachers who are willing to cross this boundary should lose their licenses for the rest of their lives.

Yes, even if it's a really hot cheerleader and your girlfriend is being a total shrew. Um, maybe I shouldn't have typed that last part.

[mixedview]

23. If 18-21yo men are locked up everyday and raped in jail

simply for having consensual sex with underaged females - then this woman has to pay the price also.

If we believe in equality as a society it should go both ways.

As a libertarian, I think statutory rape is complete bullshit designed to punish the boys/young men who like to have sex - because men will always pick women slightly younger than them, which means young men will always be the target for statutory rape laws.

Do I think this woman raped anyone ? NO. She did something morally wrong - nothing criminal

Do I think the 22yo man who married the 13yo girl the other day raped anyone ? NO. He did something morally wrong - nothing criminal.

Statutory rape is bullshit.

[shanti]

24. in 1973

i went to hs with a girl, 17, who was secretly dating a teacher. he was married at the time too. but he ended up getting a divorce and married her a year after graduation.

afaik, nobody but us kids knew...

[d_b]

25. Where the hell were these teachers

when I was in school?

[Endangered Specie]

26. Same question here...

I feel so left out :(

[mixedview]

29. lol. It's probably more psychologically damaging for the boys who DON'T

get any from the teacher who they know is giving it to some of the boys but not them.

[d_b]

30. For real.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. When a teacher seduces a student, it's a power trip, nothing to do

with sex. It's not as if they're on a desert island with no other available partners for either one.

If, by some slight chance, they really fall in love beyond the lust level, then they can wait till they're no longer teacher and student. If they can't wait till then, it's likely that this was just a case of passing obsession.

But as a former academic, I had students of both genders get obvious crushes on me. The only ethical response is to ignore the crush.

I was lucky in that none of the "crushers" became obsessive or tried outright seduction. If they had, I would have been the one to play the adult and tell them in as nice a way as possible that such relationships are not allowed.

[kentuck]

42. Bunch of baloney....

If it was good sex, give her a raise. Give him a blue ribbon for tapping the teach...

[lostinacause]

43. A relationship between a teacher and a student even when

both are of age, should result in consequences for the teacher. Allowing teachers to have relationships with students compromises both the student and the student’s peers. I believe that these actions should result in punishment be it through the institution that the individual is hired or through the legal system.

There is also a point where the line has to be drawn regarding the age of the parties in a sexual relationship. If it is too high the laws should be changed however the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I have no sympathy for the teacher. He was a fool and should pay the consequences for his abuse of a position of power and his lack of judgment.

[SoCalDem]

45. It's not about the sex..It's about the power a teacher has over a student

Just like dating the boss is not a good idea.

There needs to be a boundary. The teacher is paid to teach, not hop in the sack with the students..

If there is a mutual attraction, the teacher should be adult enough to wait until the student has graduated and moved into adulthood himself/herself.

Even then there would be an air of secrecy to the whole thing, since the teacher/student thing would always exist..

College is different, since people are presumed to be adult when they enter college. Even colleges have rules against it though.. A friend of mine dated her teacher, and eventually dropped his class because it was awkward, and he also insisted:)

[ulysses]

46. I'm not a fan of our puritanical ethics either,

but teacher/student sex isn't about that - it's about power and its abuse, as others have pointed out.

[LWolf]

47. Is there a specific situation you are referring to?

Regardless, a teacher should not have sex with a student, whether that student is 17 or 47; it is an inappropriate act in the teacher/student relationship regardless of age.

It has nothing to do with being puritannical, or with deciding how old is old enough to have sex; it has to do with the misuse of power in a professional relationship.

[Karmadillo]

49. Teachers in Europe are allowed/encouraged to have sex with HS students?

I'm guessing that's not the case (even in "Old Europe"). Do you have a link to support your assertion?

[Karmadillo]

51. This article indicates teacher-student sex isn't quite as exciting as

some here suggest.

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19991031newabuse1.asp

Dirty Secrets: Why sexually abusive teachers aren't stopped

<edit>

The Post-Gazette has examined 727 cases across the U.S. in which an educator has lost his or her license for sex offenses during the past five years, and has found some disturbing trends. Among them:

The number of teachers who have lost their licenses because of sex offenses has increased nearly 80 percent since 1994.

Several of those who lost their licenses were caught only after they had been molesting students for many years.

Offending teachers sometimes get help landing another teaching job from a unexpected source -- their former bosses. The practice is so well-known among educators that they refer to it by name. They call it "passing the trash."

<edit>

[rman]

54. the OP does not imply such

it mentions sex in general, not specific to student-teacher relations.

[Karmadillo]

60. It does imply such

It notes the more relaxed attitudes towards sex in Europe in the context of the "puritanical" response to teacher-student sex in the US. The implication is Europeans would act in a less repressive way due to their relaxed attitudes towards sex. If the treatment of teacher-student sex in Europe is the same as in the US, why raise the issue of more enlightened European sexual mores in the first place?

[rman]

68. because sexual mores is about more then just teacher-student sex

[Karmadillo]

69. Totally irrelevant considering your prior post, but it is, at least,

a statement with which we both can agree.

[JNelson6563]

50. A handy distraction

anything to keep Rove & Co. out of the news....

[Fla Dem]

53. Would your thinking on this be any different if it was a male teacher

and a female student?

My thinking is if we can send our 18 year olds to Iraq to kill and be killed, they should be able to handle consentual sexual encounters.

Having said that, I have problems with anyone in authority having sexual relations with a a young person under their guidance. Just thinking back to when I was that age (many years ago) I had several "crushes" on male teachers. Had one approached me and become sexual, if I consented, I think it would have been my hormones responding, with a sense of idol worship and fear of disappointing. For the teacher, it would have been easy sex and a sense of dominance.

[rman]

55. unprofessional

age is not the issue for me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. If it was "professional" she'd charge for it.

[rman]

67. except that that isn't her profession

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. Seems to be a lot of prudes around here.

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves
you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock

[K-W]

59. While some may object on a puritan basis, that is not the main issue

The reason a relationship like that is a problem, is because of the way it corrupts the classroom. It is unprofessional. It shouldn't be illegal, but it should certainly be considered unprofessional behavior.

[Jon8503]

61. My thoughts on this is the problem with this specific incident is not

so much the 17/yo and the sex act itself but I agree on the authority figure issue.

The teacher is in a position of trust and is in charge of the students.

That is where the teacher took advantage of her position of power and trust and that is wrong.

This is no different than two adults of age such as a CEO & his personal assistant. The CEO is in a position of power and trust thus making it wrong for the sexual act between the two.

It is not the sexual act per se but the positions of the two individuals involved.

[K-W]

66. And like a workplace, the classroom and school are effected to.

It isnt just exploiting the position, even if nobody knows about the affair it can influence the functioning of the school, and when discovered obviously it is extremely disruptive.

It shows a complete disregard for the job, the institution, colleagues and students and an inability to control oneself.

You are right, the sex, as long as the student is of age, should not be at all the issue. A 17 year old student is capable of consenting even to unequal relationships.

[dr.zoidberg]

62. More importantly

Where were these teachers when I was in school;-) ?

[Viking12]

63. In WI a teenager can drink with their parents...

...not all bars will serve underage, but they don't violate any laws if they do.

[theboss]

64. Not so much the age, but the relative positions

Teachers should not be sleeping with students not because of it's necessarily morally wrong but because of the abuse of the relationship and the tension it causes in the school. It's difficult in a working environment when co-workers are dating. Among students and teachers, it would be chaos.

I like Dan Savage's take on this. If you are a teacher who wants to bang a teenager, go to Florida during spring break one year. Bang away.

[patcox2]

65. Its legal, so long as they're not in her class.

She is getting crucified for having sex with a 16 year old. I cannot go along with that either, its so arbitrary.

[sendero]

70. This was not..

... an isolated incident with one kid. There were several in an ongoing situation. If it were only one, I'd probably have an easier time considering it "unpathological".

I doubt the 17 y-o kid is "damaged goods" over this. Come on, most of us (men) cannot honestly say that banging the teacher wouldn't have been a major good time when we were 17. Truthfully, I doubt she had to coerce the dude that much. I remember 17 :)

That isn't really the point. We have laws about such things, and though I may or may not agree with the law I do think it has to be applied uniformly across genders.

I find the sudden explosion of these incidents rather interesting. Anyone care to suggest why this is happening?

Has it always been happening but is just now getting discovered? I doubt that really. Most of the discoveries are accidental, why would that number change over time?

Is it a new feeling of sexual liberation among women? Are more and more of them just deciding they'd like to have relations with younger partners, just like men have always done?

Is it the new pervasiveness of porn via the internet that is giving people ideas?

I really would love to hear your theories :)

[mongo]

71. I think these things have always happened

and we are not in a "sudden explosion of these incidents".

We just didn't used to have 24 hour news networks eager to get the next salacious story on the air.

These things used to be settled very privately. The teacher would be fired, and that would be the end of it.

Is it the new pervasiveness of porn via the internet that is giving people ideas?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Must go do what TV tells me to.... :sarcasm:

[julialnyc]

72. I remember "incidents"

At my school (all girl school). Two girls with coaches and one girl with our female dorm parent.

They lost their jobs, but no media explosion or criminal charges

[mongo]

74. Daisy remembers a male HS teacher that molested several boys

He quietly resigned and moved to another town.

AFAIK, at my school it was always the married teachers getting caught having affairs with each other.

[sendero]

73. I disagree with you..

... you act like the media became "salacious" last week. Nonsense. The media has been running with sex scandals since there was a media.

As for internet porn, I have no problem with adults looking at anything. I never would though , cough, cough. :)

But anyone who thinks this stuff isn't affecting our culture (not necessarily bad, just affecting) is not paying attention IMHO. Teens did not used to have easy access to hardcpore porn, now they do, and that is a fact.

[julialnyc]

76. No... I don't think the media became salacious last week

but I do think that this has always happened.


I do think the fact that these women that are making the news happen to be very attractive isn't a coincidence.


Sure there are always sex scandals, but they have always followed trends.

[Jon8503]

83. You asked a question which has made me curious . I too have

wondered why all of a sudden are these incident of female teachers with younger male students having these sexual escapades.

I also agree with what you said there are laws.

The teachers are operating from a authority position which is different than just a female and just a male.

I just don't understand the reason so many all of a sudden.

I would enjoy some theories on this as well. Any thoughts?

[Gabi Hayes]

75. So...when's the last time a Catholic priest has been paraded over

the news ad nauseum when he got caught with HIS pants down?

do they ever get any pictorial coverage?

[julialnyc]

78. because of God and the fact he's not a pretty blond

Because it's so complicated and the victims are all young children who don't make noise so the world thinks it's just too messy to deal with.

[noonwitch]

77. Not illegal, but morally wrong

Why an adult would be interested that way in a teenager is beyond me. Teenagers are whiny, immature and don't make any money.

[JVS]

79. Ummm, sex with students is wrong, umkay.

[Citizen Jane]

81. Hmmmm, what about being "in loco parentis"

I taught in a public highschool for two years between the ages of 21 and 23. During that period my students were as old as 19. If we were in college together, I could have dated them.

However, there is no way I would even contemplate it. Regardless of my age and their age, I was taught during certification that a teacher should be considered "in loco parentis" while supervising students in any school setting (teaching, coaching, sponsoring clubs, etc.). So, it is not just a power thing, though that is definitely part of it, but also a question of the responsibility you carry in being like a parent (in loco parentis = in the place of a parent) while the child's own parent is not present.

Additionally, a few years later in graduate school I was tapped, as a Dean's Teaching Fellow, to lead sessions with graduate students who would be working as teaching assistants in how to interpret and abide by the institution's discriminatory harrassment policy. Basically, as others have said above, the University takes the position that relationships between supervisors and direct supervisees (professors and staff, administrators and professors or students, professors and students, teaching assistants and undergraduate students, etc.) are not to be tolerated because of the power differential and potential for abuse of that power differential (for good or bad reasons). However, relationships between different "ranks" not in a direct supervisory relationship are not expressly prohibited. Generally, however, professors really tend to look askance at their colleagues who date students or graduate students.

IMHO, highschool teachers should never get involved with highschool students regardless of the supervisory aspect. If the attractions are so strong, wait until the student graduates. At universities, it is trickier. In any case, however, getting involved with a student whom you are supposed to be nurturing is a no-no in my book. Of course we have a term for Ancient Athenian males who did practice that sort of mentoring/nurturing with a sexual element as well: they were called "eromonoi."

[Skypilot 18]

84. it's okay

It's okay as long as the teacher is the same age as the student. LOL

[LisaL]

85. Just don't do it.