I used to invite people here. Not now. Sorry, EarlG, Skinner, and elad.

[Fridays Child]

If I'm not comfortable inviting people here anymore, who else might be feeling the same way? For what it's worth, all of the nasty candidate bashing threads could hurt this forum's ability to remain viable. And, even if that's only a remote possibility, these threads certainly provide aid and comfort to our adversaries. Don't we have enough trouble without going out of our way to borrow more?

C'mon. I love you guys but KNOCK THIS SHIT OFF!

[salin]

1. Forget inviting people

I feel particularly unwelcome myself. :(

[Armstead]

3. Awww salin

We love ya.

(I am familiar with that "unwelcome" feeling though.)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. What the fuck are YOU still doing here?!?!

:D

It's just another phase, imo. "They'll" eventually get bored. They always do.






But what if "they" don't?
:scared:

[salin]

50. It has (temporarily??) settled down a bit

flames still are around - but the sheer number of the threads has decreased in relation to the overall number of GD discussions. Whew.

Had to laugh when someone edited a title to add "Clark" in the middle of a thread title related to Edison and Florida. *snicker*

[OKNancy]

4. It's depressing isn't it?

Today I said to my husband, "Well think I'll go see what the assholes on DU are saying". He said, "You love that place, what are you talking about?" I filled him in a bit and then thought about what I had said. It made me really sad that I said that.

It's just no fun anymore.

[salin]

9. I can ignore a few fights

but today it is SPAM city. There is no room for other discussions. Folks I like and respect have gotten sucked into the ugly cycle - and are unintentionally (I hope) shutting down other (my) conversations. It is depressing. I don't think it is intentional disruption - but if it were it couldn't do a better job of distracting the forum from serious breaking stories and issues if it were.

[Cha]

19. More name calling from DUers....there is a lot of that going

around. People can't discuss politics without calling other people names is the shame.

[salin]

22. the spamming going on today

is inconsiderate. obnoxious. and completely out of control. from both camps. Call it jerky - or call use a more colorful term. Today that behavior is in full display.

[KoKo]

29. Agree, Zidzi........calling names, making Candidates "Sports Figures"..all

of it......:-(

[LittleApple81]

11. not true!!! I loved your threads this morning and tried to help.

And I see where you got a lot of hits later in the day. It was important and some of us can identify important ones when we see them.
Perhaps we should sign a pact: kick all of the ones we consider important repeatedly so the first page of GD reads like a normal forum?

[salin]

26. I know of another who shares that view

and desired tactic - I have to get out of here for a few - but may take that charge up later. And I have appreciated your conversation as well. Just feel like we are getting shouted down - intentionally.

[Solomon]

70. It's why I started a series of "Show Your Love" threads

I feel the same way too.

[Spazito]

2. I am finding it very sad....

I really thought ABB was the key but I guess not. I thought for sure there would be a lot more discussion on the CIA leak from the Whitehouse but I guess trashing all the dem candidates one by one tops that. Very sad :-(

[JVS]

39. We've gone into the "DEATHMATCH" phase of ABB

That is when the supporters of candidates, emboldend by the many pledges to support the democratic nominee, decide that it is absolutely crucial to get the nomination for their candidate.

[Robbien]

5. Have been spending some time this morning on other

liberal boards. Don't like DU any more.

[qanda]

66. Could you share some of those with me via PM

I'm looking for more civilized and intelligent discussions. The pettiness has taken over and even when you try to be reasonable you get called names. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I'm hoping admin will soon come to the rescue. In the meantime...

[uhhuh]

6. Kick

n/t

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. No way, a fight draws a crowd

I bet DU is more popular than ever. Who even gives a shit about FreeRepublic.com anymore? They love Bush, who cares. Right now the story is here. The candidate bashing only helps. All these smears will be "just some crap I read off the internet" by the time the Democratic nominee sends Bush back to the "ranch".

[deutsey]

84. WWF draws a crowd, too

Not the kind of crowd I want to hang around with too often, though.

[papau]

8. The only Bashing should be on Bush's head

My guy did well because ....

and My guy (or gal) has a great position on this issue

is all I want to see.

The so and so is evil because is not needed. Gep is going there and Kerry also - and I just get mad at both of them (and Joe has been there for 10 years).

[Democat]

10. There are some unfortunate things going on here lately

Karl Rove is happy with the direction the DU forums have taken lately. :)

[FauxNewsBlues]

14. Agreed: Kick

Karl Rove loves when we bash our candidates for him. It gives him a woodie. Knock the crap off people. Bush is in real trouble now, and by ignoring his trouble and fighting with one another, we are giving him a pass. It makes me ill..

[JitterbugPerfume]

15. Me too

I have come real close to logging off forever

but I would miss the few friends I have left here

I am very sad about DU these days


I seldom post any more...it is to hateful in here

[LittleApple81]

12. kick

[LittleApple81]

13. kick

[VOX]

16. In total agreement! Kick...

:kick:

[JanMichael]

17. Some of us are trying to keep issue threads kicked. It isn't easy though.

Florida getting screwed by Jeb...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=424150&mesg_id=424150


Edit: The Plame/CIA story...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=425023
and
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=424692

Bernie Sanders...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=425023

[CatWoman]

18. yeah!!! at while wer'e at it

FREE ZOMBY WOOF!!!!!!!!!

[JitterbugPerfume]

20. Thanks for that Cat Woman

I can not believe he is gone

He was (is) a good friend to DU

it is UNFAIR to penalize him



WE WANT ZOMBY WOOF !!!!!!!!



if you are lurking or anything Zomby, we love you


woof

[JanMichael]

21. Stupid question: What's up with ZW?

I obviously missed something...

<looks frantically under sofa for zw>

[Cha]

25. I'd like to know, too? What happened to Zombywoof?

[KoKo]

57. It switches from ZombyWoof to Coyote Cafe.....still out there, I think!

Changed location....so the name is different.....although seems both names are still on DU!

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

64. Hey Cat! What happened to Zomby? Don't tell me he was "tombstoned!"

Last I heard he'd moved and was Coyote Cafe.......but I don't spent much time in Lounge......so I'm not up-to-date.

Any info.....why was he "penalized?" Any links as to what happened?

Best to you!
koko

[curse10]

48. :-)

Free the Zomby!

[Cha]

23. I'm Proud of DU....and tell anybody about it! It's a political

democraticundergound site! Love it!

[noiretextatique]

33. political disagreements on a poltical discussion board

:scared: oh the horror!!!!! this current crop of flames will die down...they always do.

[knight_of_the_star]

24. Kickity kick!

:kick:

[mike_c]

27. maybe there should be a specific forum for arguing the merits...

...of dem candidates, meant to isolate the rancor from the general discussion, much like I/P Affairs does.

[WoodrowFan]

28. UGH

I agree, it's UGLY. I've started avoiding the Clark and the Dean threads. There's still plent of Freeper threads to keep me reading, as well as fun threads in the Lounge. Just warn new folks to avoid the Clark/Dean wars for awhile.

[Oracle]

30. Have any other rules to live by...what bullshit, Mary Pat!!!

I think it's called freedoom of speech!

I may not like some asshole on the forum but I have to accept it if they play by the rules...who are you to say what is and what should and shouldn't be said? Do you have any real passion besides "Oh, darn do I hate Bush?" Yes, there's truly are disruptors here with an agenda and they should be gone after...and I can give you a name who I've complaimed to the administators about, yesterday for the first time ever (indirectly.) And it takes an awful fucking lot for me to complain about anyone...I've never used the "alert' button and probably never will...

But that's not the people you are apolgizing for, it's people who are speaking about what they dislike about a specific candidate and their policy, ideology, agenda or the color of their eyes (this is how Dean popped to the top of the groovy top 40 hits charts)...people can make their own judgement if the person writing is full of shit or not...what we write is far less cruel than Fox and the rest of the republican owned corporate media write or say. And in end I think it was skinner who wrote, (paraphrasing, here) "We will all come together behind the chosen Democratic nominee." Absolutely! (Let's just hope it's not Lieberman or Geppy,)

I truly doubt skinner and EG want an apology from you... I surely wouldn't. That's why this site continues to grow every day and will continue to (as long as there's a republican in power and trying to steal more power somewhere.)

I sure as hell don't give a fuck if I'm liked, I KNOW I'm not...like I give a shit...but I know 99% of what I do write here on DU is accurate and reseached or quoted as an opinion piece with a link attached. And if I am stating an opinion, it's ALWAYS from my Democratic liberal progressive SF Italian Union & catholic upbringing, backround and experience. And stated with passion, and from my heart (with my bad spelling and grammar to go along with it.)

If you don't like what I say...there's a little button up there, on every one of my post to fucking ignore me...USE IT!

[AliceWonderland]

34. It's not a freedom of speech issue

It has reached the point where it's an administration issue. I don't think that anyone is saying folks shouldn't be allowed to fight about candidates; they're saying that the issue has affected the general level of discussion...which it has. A specific forum for those threads seems like a sensible idea.

[noiretextatique]

36. ask the admin, and the alert functions can be used

to address this problem.

[starscape]

83. jeez, did this thread hit a nerve or something, oracle?

ever try taking valium?

LOL

[havocmom]

31. Yep, tis sad that the bickering is drowning out discussion of merit.

The bickering does not teach anything useful for how we can take the country back from the shadow corproate-government that is choking it.

The whining and infighting makes us look like fools, uses energies and resources unproductively, and lessens the likelyhood of changing the course of our national degradation.

DU did great service to the nation by pulling together and making issues like BBV more visable. DU did great service to the world by not letting up on discussion about the WMD lies. DU can be a great source of community and comfort to many, many people who have a vague sense that 'something' is terribly wrong in America, but who need to know they are not alone in their perceptions. DU is essential to share critical information in a time when the Fourth Estate has completely lost sight of its responsibilities in the functioning of representative democracy.

DU is such a potential power that the enemies of Truth, Justice and the American way are very aware of it. Let them know we are in this fight to win, not beat each other.

[SoCalDem]

32. I do not recommend it as often as I used to,

and I rarely visit GD anymore.:(..

Some of the lounge posts are pretty disgusting for people my age.. I just ignore them, but feel awkward when suggesting that my friends come here. I usually just refer to DU as " a political website that I belong to"..

I have been here a long time and have seen the gradual evolution, but a newcomer might have other impressions..:(

as for the candidate bashing in GD, I would LOVE to see all those moved to "politics & campaigns".. It's where they really belong , anyway..

I never click on them, but they do take up a lot of real estate and do not provide much insight..

Oh well.. such is life :)

[SoCalDem]

47. These are actual subject lines currently on "Latest" and Lounge

See what I mean??? Like I said.. I am no prude, but sheeeez.. If people want to "discuss" this kind of stuff, there have got to be a million sites for it.. We have no way of knowing which page newcomers gravitate to when they check us out.. If they go to Latest and see this stuff, why would they even bother to assume this was a politcal websaite??

Everyone gets silly sometimes, but this stuff is more and more prevalent...

It makes us look juvenile:(



____________________________________________________
Hey Fellas -- How Many Inches Are You?

I think people masturbate about Dean and Clark while posting in GD

So...are there any "lifestyle" people here...

Can we have anal sex with polls?

I'm shaving my scrotum tomorrow, ask me anything.

how often do you masturbate?

Chicks who kick ass in tight, black, latex bodysuits

[KoKo]

58. These posts are really "over the top" even for our DU kids, Would think...

Wonder if folks are deliberately coming here to make fun of us.....Those posts belong in a Jr. High Locker room......where they would be the most appreciated......blech! Scrape that stuff off!

[goobergunch]

35. Yeah

I don't even know that it will stop for recall night. I have this vision of GD Tuesday (7 Oct) night...

DAVIS SURVIVES THE RECALL!    18 replies
Clark voted Repuke!          104 replies
Dean loves Gingrich!          93 replies
We should stop the flaming.   23 replies

:-(

[karlschneider]

37. I year ya. Seriously thinking of going on hiatus until after the election

:grr:

[Fridays Child]

42. Personally, I'd like to go into one of those medically-induced comas...

...until after the election. The stress is unreal. On the other hand, I'm so scared by how this country is being hijacked that I can't seriously consider turning away. It's just makes things harder to deal with when the one place you really depend on for political news, strategy, and inspiration feels like a battleground.

[Oracle]

43. So do other people, you don't agree with or have respect for!

Your not the only one who cares.

[Fridays Child]

59. You know what, Oracle? Get off my back.

I haven't demanded that anyone conform to any rules and I haven't IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM shown disrespect for anyone here...up until right now as I hand you the disrespect you've earned from me. Now, why don't you follow your own advice and put me on ignore?

[newsguyatl]

38. same here mary pat

today, i took my DU bumper sticker off my car, just because i'm not proud of this place anymore. it's an embarrassment.

it's sad what's happened to this site. i used to come here everyday, now all i can stomach is about twice a week just to make sure i'm not missing out on anything and to say hi to the few folks on here i like and respect...


i also used to tell other liberals about visiting this site, but not anymore... i'd be embarrassed for someone to see this place now..


those who pay attention know when it started and know, too, what group of posters it started with.


sad.

[ShaneGR]

40. LOL, what are you so sad about?

You've been posting fridiculous flame-bait anti-Clark threads for weeks now. Suddenly you're sad about what the board has become? Huh?

[Oracle]

41. I hear you, sgr2...it's always the pots calling the kettles...

[Dookus]

46. lol

:thumbsup:

[Tinoire]

55. Hell- Today I put my DU poster on my second car

What we need are more intelligent progressives to return the tone to where it was, more people like the original posters who made this place what it was before everything degenerated after the very recent commando raid.

This is a progressive board dedicated to getting Bush and that entire 7-headed PNAC Hydra out of office but it's now turning into an apologetic board.

It will mean nothing to have worked so hard to fight Bush, fight the neo-cons and win this election if their machinery remains in place.

Those who pay attention and know the nasty tricks used in politics know what's going on.

[Dookus]

56. tinoire...

the irony is lost on you, isn't it? here's a thread complaining about baseless, repeated attacks on candidates and you use it to continue the same ol' stuff.

Clark supporters are not apologists. They simply disagree with you. Why must you attack at every possible opportunity?

Can't a thread asking that the attacks stop be safe from such attacks?

[KoKo]

60. In defense of Tinoire....She/He doesn't post often.But..When/IMPORTANT!

So.....for somebody like me......who posts here lots.....and much is frivolous...I think someone like Tinoire and our other DU'ers need some special "Look Sees" when they post.....because.....they reserve their opinions for the BIG TICKET Issues.

I don't consider myself "frivolous, btw" but I post alot....and much is what I'm thinking of 'off top of my head' and sometimes it is....sort of unrefined." But folks like Tinoire.....need to be listened to.....whether you agree or not....Read the Links! :-)'s

[Terwilliger]

69. I'd say Tinoire is definitely a 'she'

:hi:

[KoKo]

81. Yes, I knew, but didn't want to reveal it....in case she didn't want EVERY

ONE knowing! LOL's....... It's that "privacy" thingy......:-)'s

[Tinoire]

71. Dookus

Why can't the same Clark supporters point us to any of the rebuttals they keep talking about? Poster after poster has requested links, documents, dated quotes and we have repeatedly gotten nothing except assurances that points were refuted and a slew of disparate threads in GD that rationalize without explaining, marginalize or attack and wreak total havoc in GD.

What should one call such tactics if not apologetic, embarrassing, and down-right disruptive?

I am not attacking Clark supporters. I have no personal bones to pick in this election with any of them but I do have a vested interest in doing what I can to make sure important information is not drowned out because these elections depend on that.

And alas, no, the irony is not loss but my sense of humor is fast disappearing because of what we have at stake.

[Dookus]

73. Because accusations that are slung around...

like PNAC'er, War Criminal, Rove plant, etc. etc. aren't worthy of true rebuttal. It shows the questioner has no real interest in debate.

[noiretextatique]

75. with all due respect, Dookus

if you insist on defining the parameters of what constitutes the debate, THAT shows no real interest in debating.

everyone needs to stop taking the candidate discussions here so personally. i am troubled by how quickly people use terms like "bashing" and "attacks" to describe criticism. granted some gratituous "bashing" does happen, but not nearly as often as people claim. what i see are a lot of thin-skins and a lot of flame-baiting...on both sides of a discussion.

some people have legitimate concerns about various candidates, and as someone mentioned today, if people think THIS is a bloodbath, wait until AFTER the primaries when the GOP attack dogs really get going.

this poster also mentioned that the discussions now are not only good practice, but also give us someone idea of the weaknesses (real or otherwise) the GOP will focus on later. peace.

[Dookus]

76. I disagree

I think such inflammatory accusations are only meant to hurt the other candidate, not to generate a useful discussion.

If you can honestly look at GD over the last couple days or weeks and think that USEFUL discussion has taken place in the bashing threads, then you have a much higher tolerance for nonsense than I do.

And believe me, I have GREAT interest in debating. You can search my nearly 3000 posts and I defy you to find ONE in which I've slammed another candidate.

It's possible for me to support MY candidate without bringing down others.

[noiretextatique]

79. how can anything here "hurt" a candidate?

really? even if it is blatant disinformation, i trust that there are many intelligent and aware people who will point that out...i've seen it happen many times.

and as i said, i don't automatically equate debate or discussion with "slamming," "bashing," and so on. what i do notice is the some accusations are difficult or impossible to refute because people have different views of what they actually mean or how important they are.
or perhaps they have fundamental ideological differences that no amount of debate will change. this is what i see happening in the candidate threads.

and yes, i think even some of the flame threads are useful. and let's face it: some people are going to take issue with even the slightest hint at criticism of something they consider "sacred."

i've seen you on the boards, and you are a reasonable person. not everyone is, i grant you that. and, i seriously doubt it will change. peace.

[Dookus]

82. Then why

would someone post "blatant disinformation" if their goal wasn't to hurt the candidate.

Now I realize what e chatter on about here isn't going to make a big difference in the final election result, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't endeavor to do better here.

And I have no problem with arguing legitimate issues about the candidates. I have been involved in many such discussions.

But I see no value in "Clark's a Rove plant" or "Dean's was born Rich" or "Kerry's too French-looking". They're all silly attacks that are worthy of grade-schoolers.

[noiretextatique]

87. it doesn't "hurt" a candidate

but it is a clue to the poster's motives. and we should do better in both ignoring these posters, and alerting the moderators.

and i agree with you about those kinds of threads...they are stupid. what's even more stupid is the compulsion some feel to respond to them.

however, i still think some folks need to grow some thicker skins, and stop taking the discussions so personally...not you, of course :D

this is one reason even legitimate debates devolve into flame wars. thanks for the discussion.

[Tinoire]

89. I have backed up everything I've ever said here

nothing I've ever said hasn't been backed up with the proper links and documentation. For the people who follow my rare threads in GD and threads of other people who research their material, none of this is a revelation and I have always, when asked, provided the back up for my assertions. Never have I lightly thrown around terms such as war criminal, PNACer or Rove plant in one line attacks. What I have done, is laid out the reputably sourced information in substantive posts for people to look at and I consider that fair discussion.

This article just appeared a couple of days ago in the mainstream press and was written by a respected progressive writer who has worked closely with Reps and Senators on privacy legislation.

Wesley Clark for President?
Another Con Job from the Neo-Cons
http://thomasmc.com/0919b.htm

It was my understanding that our goal here was to get Bush out of office by getting the best candidate elected after open discussion. What possible good would it do us to get the wrong person up there so that Rove can open his secret files and slaughter that person? Also what good will it do us if that person were their back-up plan? If the answer to either of those questions is "none", then this should be discussed. Right now there's too much partisanship and no one is debating. Yawns and endless assertions that things have been refuted when everyone knows they weren't and no links can be provided is not discussion.

If Clark is who he says he is, he and his supporters will address these points and come out smelling like a rose but as long as the information keeps coming out in the press, both Left and Right, then it is worthy of discussion and it is something Clark supporters should really work at properly refuting because it's not going away.

If he cant' stand up to scrutiny here with a few amateur posters, how is anyone expecting him to get past the independent press or Rove's machine? :shrug:

[Mairead]

91. But nobody's asking Clarkies to defend against 'PNACer' etc.

Only against what appears to be his actual record, such as fund-raising for Republicans.

What I think I'm seeing is Clark supporters now doing what Dean supporters did not so long ago: 'we know about this stuff and we don't care because Dean is so exciting'. Only replace 'Dean' with 'Clark'. Wow. Why should anyone who says that be taken seriously? More to the point, what does it say about the candidate and the candidate's followers?

People need to respond substantively. You can blow off stuff that's obvious nonsense, like 'Clark eats puppies', but not 'Clark spoke at a GOP fund-raiser'. That can't be dismissed with a wave of the hand, and you insult everyone around you and diminish yourself when you try.

[returnable]

92. But it can be dismissed...

...with posts linking Clark's fundraising for Democratic candidates over the last couple of years. It's true. He did. I started one such thread last week.

For example, Clark endorsed and helped raise funds for Max Cleland - the target of well-known Repug smear campaign. If Clark was a Repug puppet, what was he doing endorsing Cleland for a congressional seat coveted by the RW?

But no one wants to read such things.

My thread sunk relatively fast, buried yet again by multiple "Clark shilled for the GOP"-type threads.

I don't merely "wave my hand" at bashers.

But I DO shake my head at people who constantly keep posting the same BS that has been rebuttled time and time again.

If you want to discuss Clark's "actual record" of fundraising, look beyond the right wing talking points.

[qanda]

68. I've missed you newsguyatl...

We don't always agree on everything, but I look forward to your posts. I hope you'll stick around.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

78. Why didn't you take your bumper sticker off when...

Clark supporters were relentlessly bashing Dean not so long ago? Remember that little 5 sentence rule? Or is DU only a disgrace when YOUR candidate is getting bashed?

I find it hilarious that when Dean was getting bashed, the Dean supporters were saying how terrible DU had gotten and the Clark supporters were saying things like "if you can't take the heat..."

Now that Clark is getting bashed, Clark supporters are saying how terrible DU has gotten and Dean supporters are saying things like "if you can't take the heat..."

Fuck the lot of you. Don't blame DU for your own problems. This place is the best thing since sliced bread, and if you people are willing to try and bring down DU just because your favourite candidate is getting bashed then I suggest you all just fuck off somewhere else.

A good starting place would be the Dean and Clark web boards. That way you can restrict your reading to only favourable articles on your favourite candidate, and the rest of us can be relieved of this constant whining from one camp or the other...

On edit: My mistake. I thought you were a Clark supporter. So I take back my question to you. But the rest of my post still stands. Trying to take down DU is FAR WORSE than ANY candidate bashing that goes on here.

The freepers may disrupt, but we don't take them seriously. When long-time DUers start trying to take down this board with threads like this, it is far more damaging than even a thousand freeper disrupters.

[Isere]

51. As an alternative

here's a suggestion of a very small board that is always civil:
The Dumbya Chronicles. Here's the link to the home page which lists the various forums. You will find it quiet compared to DU, but not at all hostile.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Index/10454

[Atlant]

52. You've all E-mailed the administrators, right?

You've all E-mailed the administrators with your concerns, right?
They're convinced everything is just ducky. I don't feel that way,
and apparently I'm not alone, but unless they hear about it from
more than just me, things will go on as they've been going on.

You might also want to remind the administrators that, while
they run the place, you all pay for this site. Or not.

Atlant

[Dookus]

54. Let me stand up for the admins...

I don't think they believe everything is just ducky. Skinner posted a well-thought out and articulate message here last week, which unfortunately, few took to heart.

Yes, I urge you all to either contact an admin, or even better, post in the Ask the Administrators forum with your concerns. But please don't think that they're indifferent to the problems in GD. It's simply that the available solutions all have problems of their own.

[Lorien]

53. How about a new forum?

Just title it "the candidates", and move all the flamefests there?:shrug:

[paulk]

61. I used to tell people about DU all the time

I don't anymore. I feel kinda like when your embarassed to invite people to your home - cause it's such a mess.

[SoCalDem]

62. you been peeking in my windows???

:)

[Crewleader]

63. I agree MaryPat

we need to clean up DU and get our home back in order and that takes all of us to work together, adminstration and members, like mending fences with those here and those we lost.

Skinner & EarlG listen to the voices here, you know who are true hearts for DU. Yes politics gets ugly but let it not get so dirty that we don't invite our families because of the embarrassment of some posts that should be delete for the overall good of DU. What is posted and stays reflects DU and what is allowed that shouldn't be only gets worse as some stuff goes on in the Lounge.
Those of you remember when I moderated the Lounge, that stuff didn't happen and it was warm and inviting. Make it a famliy site where you would want to invite friends and family, get rid of those that reflect less on DU because they only do harm and chase many away.

I know about the candidate bashing, I was the first one to support Al Gore here and I had my share but I learn just to ignore it and do my supporting of him in a positive way with the support threads. I suggest to everyone you do the same...post your candidate and for supporters only. It's good, it's positive and it works! You get from time to time those who like to be disruptive but you get to see the names who are the repeat offenders' adventurely they stop or told to.
It's a good way of getting the facts and information out on your candidates and meetups.

Here's the key to our front door, let's all try to treat others like we like to be treated, after all we are on the same side, we need to show it to one another more. Then those who are not on our side will stand out and show who they are, so to make the exit sooner.

MaryPat you are my friend like so many here on this thread, I hear your plea and hope for the future that we can keep DU the gathering ace we all have for communicating, informing and venting our fustrations so that we all move forward to make it better for our loved ones and us! I'm with you all!

:loveya:

[Rebellious Republican]

67. Hi Crewleader, nice to hear from you again, words to live by! N/T

:hi:

[Fridays Child]

72. Thanks, Crew! It's always good to have your support.

You're pure gold!!!

[noiretextatique]

65. i notice patterns here all the time...cycles i suppose

first there are a spate of a particular type of thread, then there are threads that plead for civility or the threads that decry the first spate of threads...then there are the posts about how horribly DU has dengenerated. and then it quiets down...and then the cycle continues. i think it's just the nature of the beast. having said that, i do think its incumbent on the members here to help create and shape this community. i think posts think iverson's and armstead's today are an attempt to do that. both were attempts to get folks to discuss their differences and to examine political strategies.
honestly, i think those types of posts are more useful, in terms of reshaping the debate here. now i'm off...to see your other post in GD :hi:

[rasputin1952]

74. Civil discourse is the lifeblood of Liberty...

As a staunch defender of the Right of Free Speech, I cannot oppose what one may, or may not, post. However, Free Speech has little to do with automatic acceptance of what is being said.

I retain my right, and will defend everyone else's right, to accept, reject, question or just plain ignore what has been posted.

A lot of time and effort has gone into presenting opinions on the candidates; there is just one that we all agree on, bush has to go.

I have read about all of the candidates, and I have made my preliminary decision, and will vote for the candidate that I feel has the best chance to oust bush, and adheres somewhat closely to what I believe in.

Without authenticated evidence, that my choice is a criminal, I will stick to that person. I would suspect that most of us feel the same way at this point.

However, regardless of whom the nominee is, once that decision has been made, I will put all of my energy into ensuring a Democrat sits in the WH after the '04 election. The country cannot endure a second bush term.

Since most of us are pretty well entrenched in whom we will vote for in the primaries, or support in caucus', I might suggest that the flaming cool down a bit.

As for the language used here in DU, and some of the subject matter; I go back the suggestion of self-censorship, which is the only type of censorship I find viable.

[FlaGranny]

93. Self censorship -

Self censorhip is what I have imposed on myself. I will not state, ever, on this site, which candidate I am leaning toward. The reasons for that are obvious. In doing so, I would immediately alienate everyone here who has something against that candidate and thus make "enemies" for myself. I would open myself to jabs about anything I might say about my candidate and make some of you discount anything I had to say about any other subject.

Sad, but true.

Edit: I believe this explains the secret ballot. Allowing people to know who you voted for (or would vote for) opens you to personal criticism and/or retaliation from the prejudiced.

[jiacinto]

77. Me too

Then I stopped after a while since I am afraid that reading some of these threads might turn people into hard core Bush supporters.

[deutsey]

80. I don't recommend DU anymore and I've cut back my time here

I visit every day because I want to see LBN; I check out the other forums less frequently as the flame wars rage on.

I'm hoping this recent lowpoint will soon pass, because it's certainly not pleasurable or informative to come here anymore.

[UTUSN]

85. (Re: Original Post), Well, Then-------Farewell, My Lovely n/t

[tom hunt]

86. Look what all this goody two shoes shit has got us so far

We got cheated, we got defeated and we got Bush with our nice polite reasonable manners.Im raising hell against those repub basterds from here on out.

[UTUSN]

88. Hear-hear and Welcome Aboard!!!!!!!!!! n/t

`

[rasputin1952]

90. While I agree that raising hell with the GOP...

is the right thing to do; you are preaching to the choir.

Our energies should be used to oust the yahoo in the WH, and not be used against each other. Solidarity is what will win the WH and congress back.

I fight the good fight at every chance I get; and it gets results. But I don't preach to the choir, I get out and become active; I hold these people to what they say, and I am active in local, county, state politics as well.

I say fight on, but fight the enemy, not ourselves. Fight with truth, you will never lose.

:bounce:

[Romberry]

94. I agree, Inviting people...

...to DU as it stands now is not a good idea.

I myself am "not here" in the GD forum any more but I made an excpetion to reply to your post.

I posted my take on what is going on yesterday.

I don't envy the admins in dealing with this. DU has turned into a web verion of Usenet and any frequent travelers on Usenet know that ain't necessarily a good thing.

[stickdog]

95. I agree that this is no place for the uninitiated right now.

It blows but I believe it will blow over soon.

IMHO, Clark is a disrupter.