People are desperate enough to jump the band-wagon for Clark

[ProudToBeLiberal]

Would probably have voted yes on Iraq war authorization

Clark said that he "probably" would have voted for the congressional resolution last fall authorizing war. Clark said his views on the war resemble those of Lieberman Kerry, both of whom voted for the war but now question President Bush's stewardship of the Iraqi occupation. "I was against the war as it emerged because there was no reason to start it when we did. We could have waited," Clark said.
Source: Jim VandeHei, Washington Post, p. A5 Sep 19, 2003

Ordered attack on Russian troops in Kosovo

On June 12, 1999, in the immediate aftermath of NATO's air war against Yugoslavia, a small contingent of Russian troops dashed to occupy the Pristina airfield in Kosovo. Clark was so anxious to stop the Russians that he ordered an airborne assault to confront these units-an order which could have unleashed the most frightening showdown with Moscow since the end of the Cold War. Hyperbole? You can decide. But British General Michael Jackson, the commander of the NATO international force K-FOR, told Clark: "Sir, I'm not starting WWIII for you," when refusing to accept his order to prevent Russian forces from taking over the airport.
After being rebuffed by Jackson, Clark, according to various media reports at the time, then ordered the American Admiral James Ellis to use Apache helicopters to occupy the airfield. Ellis didn't comply either. Had Clark's orders been followed, the subsequent NATO-negotiated compromise with the Russians might well have been undermined.

Source: The Nation, Opionion, "Wesley Clark's 'High Noon' Moment" Sep 17, 2003

Would not rule out vice presidency

Clark said that as recently as last week, former president Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) both encouraged him to run, as did many of their close friends. He said the former president initially was cool to the idea but warmed to it as the draft-Clark movement grew. Clark said he never discussed running with Sen. Clinton on the same ticket, however. Clark, who discussed the vice presidency with Dean at a recent meeting, said he would not rule out taking the No. 2 slot on a ticket.
Source: Jim VandeHei, Washington Post, p. A5 Sep 19, 2003
http://www.issues2000.org/Wesley_Clark.htm#Immigration

[bluestateguy]

1. More Clark bashing

Karl Rove sends his thanks! Why should he hire opposition researchers when people at DU will do it for free?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

4. It's not bashing

it's researching possible candidates. Duh. Haven't you heard of being informed? It's a scary thing when people are ignorant on the issues and vote. I already know carry stances on abortion and etc. Now I'm asking you to explain to me about these decisions. Is that so hard to ask?

[Renew Deal]

8. This isn't honest research on your part.

You want research, go look up Dean's position on NAFTA, or Kucinich's position on Abortion. If you are really looking for fun, go look up Kucinich and questionable race tactics in the 70's. That's loads of fun.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

13. I did look them up

I know kucininch flip floped on aborion and I also know that he's against flag burning. And I also know deans position on Nafta, just go to his website at Deanforamerica.com or blogforamerica.com

[maggrwaggr]

2. and your point is what?

This is old news, repeated ad infinitum. Go say it somewhere else.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

6. It's not old news to me

Maybe I'm slow but when I ask questions like this people say or your bashing or you're late on the up take or this is old news. But they don't answer my concerns.

[eileen_d]

9. I don't have a problem with you asking

But, to be fair, your thread title included "people are desperate to jump on the Clark bandwagon." That doesn't suggest the spirit of sincere inquiry to me.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

11. That's my initial reaction

Maybe I should of been more formal but it was my emeotional reaction. Sometimes being formal is not the way to go. You have to cut the cheese

[Renew Deal]

14. Click the edit button and change it if that's what you mean.

Get going if you are honest.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

20. sorry

you can't change the title

[Renew Deal]

25. Sure you can, you are the author.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

27. :P

:P brain fart I forgot how O_O

[lcordero]

24. I think that her point might have something to do with the prewar

polls where 30% of the people polled were anti-war.

You can bet that an overwhelming majority of that 30% were registered Democrats.

Let's make the assumption that the whole 30% was Democrat for a second. If half the people polled were Democrat then only 40% of the Democrats were prowar.

Now lets change that assumption now to one of the more recent polls where everything was skewered and only something like 28% of the people polled were left-leaning or Democratic-leaning. Under that assumption 100% of polled Democrats were anti-war.

A Party isn't going to be elected unless it represents the majority of it's voters.

[Dookus]

3. who farted?

[noiretextatique]

7. honing your "debating" skills i see

:hi:

[Dookus]

39. it's...

my generic response to bullshit threads attacking ANY candidate.

If you'd like to debate any topic, I'd be happy to enjoin you.

[Renew Deal]

5. How much more of this crap do we have to deal with.

Really, get over it already. Go throught the usual motions. Read theclarksphere.com and other resources on Kosovo. Find out more of General Jackson. Ask your self why Dean wanted a puke as VP and most of all grow up. Go find some positive info on the cadidate you support. I would love to know more about school vouchers. Start a thread on something useful.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

10. I'm trying to be informed

I know most of all the candidates issue. But as you know Clark is the newest candidate so i'm a little vague. I'm asking for assitance but you're pushing me to the side. Shoving me under the carpet. You're trying to silence my voice. I just want answers.

People claim that Clark was a man who would not not stop for second place so I was putting up the quote about his Vp message

[Renew Deal]

12. Don't BS me.

There are 100's of threads on this stuff. Pay the $20, get a star next to your name and do some searching. Or just look through the threads, there is plenty out there. Don't act like a victim. I told you to get more info.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

17. All the threads

are laced with bashing I can't handle it ok? I just want the facts not editorials that is bias. All you're giving me is hot air.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

30. Woah

you use the victim statement, the only people I know who is are republicans like on the welfare issue and food stamps. The say stop actiong like the victim etc. the whole speel

[eileen_d]

18. Geez, if you know where the info is, post a link.

I understand it's frustrating, but if you're going to keep replying, at least do something.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

26. you're reinforcing my point

I want to know from CLARK SUPPORTERS not just news media outlets. Theirs a difference you know. Perception is different from people to people. The news media perception is different from the ACTUAL clark supporters

[eileen_d]

31. My reply wasn't to you, it was to Bleachers

I am not an official Clark supporter, and I do not have the energy to do the research right now. I hope someone else will. Good night.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

19. oh and the twenty dollars

I'm poor so sorry I can't afford it unlike you. Sheesh I'm just a high school student. When I do get a job and finish college I will donate.

[Renew Deal]

23. Shouldn't you be in bed? n/t

[JohnKleeb]

29. yawn you got a problem with nocternal people bleachers

I am in high school too proudtobeliberal.

[Toucano]

28. Forgive the Push

But these issues have been dealt with so extensively already, people are just tired of repeating themselves.

If you sincerely need help, please edit your subject line to something less confrontational, and someone will likely help you with the information you seek.

In case you were unaware, Clark's supporters resent the notion that they are desperate or jumping anywhere.

Cheers!

[noiretextatique]

32. it does read like flamebait nt

[noiretextatique]

22. you don't "have" to deal with any of it...don't post

if you're so offended. all you do is kick the post.

[noiretextatique]

15. i'd support a ticket with clark in the VP slot

a great way to capitalize on his positives.

[Julien Sorel]

16. 157

And counting. How many times tomorrow?

[fabius]

33. Not "desperate" maybe they just like him?

Come on. If this is the worst dirt they have it's pretty tame compared to the BFEE stuff. If anybody would actually report the Bush shenanigans.

Maybe the Plame affair will smoke KKKarl out of his cave.

You folks can bash away, but I'm comfortable to let the best man or woman win.

I'm supporting Dean. I'll vote for any Democrat including Clark. Of Lieberman. Even after I've invested most of my shrubby tax cut in Dean.

[Jim Sagle]

34. More like jumping the shark.

[mhr]

35. Clark's Ugly Truths Can Be Found Here

http://www.prorev.com/politics.htm#clark

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/DVNS_Wesley-Clark.htm

[Tinoire]

36. Here's some information for some of your questions

For the Pristina incident, read especially mddemo's posts in the thread. I can give you a lot more but I think his eye-witness account is perfect.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=44490#44518

If you don't get a decent answer on the war thing, PM me and I'll give you some reputably sourced information so you can make up your own mind.

Any further questions you have either PM me or post them here in this thread.

I'm proud you're a liberal too! :toast:

[Dookus]

37. I'm a liberal, too...

which is why I'm supporting Clark - far to the left of Dean.

[Tinoire]

38. Based on what Clark says

he is far to the left of Dean. The main problem is that I won't trust any politician based on words.

If Clark could back up his words with deeds and didn't have, what I consider, disqualifying baggage, I'd probably be his number one supporter.

It was difficult enough to get past Yugoslavia especially after having watched that war from within the military and knowing people wo were involved. But the other stuff I've brought up in other threads, I just can not get past.

Socially liberal is only part of the picture. I have few doubts that Clark would indeed be socially liberal but that's not enough. There are issues such as capitalistic globalization and pushing an imperialist agenda that concern me greatly because they're what brought us to the point we're at now. Bush didn't do this alone- it was years in the making.

So he pulverized Iraq... Clinton had it bombed and sanctioned and starved for 8 years straight. Half a million dead Iraqi children due to US/UK forced sanctions and Madeleine Albright said that was ok.
That wasn't ok. Can you understand where I come from? This is why I can't buy promising words from someone who was part of that same machinery. War is wrong and future wars and occupations are wrong too. The erosion of our civil liberties is wrong too and has to be stopped. Do you see where I'm coming from?


But yes, to wrap this up, on social issues, Clark is to the left of Dean (if we believe words he can't prove) but do you really think he's to the left of Dean for the rest?

[Dookus]

40. yes, i do.

I think he's to the left of Dean not only on social issues (which you admit) but on economic issues. Clark readily supports cancelling the bush tax cuts for the rich (where Dean is somewhat unclear as to exactly WHICH cuts he would roll back).

But it's a silly argument. The reason I even bring it up is because so many here argue whether Clark is even worthy of the label "Democrat". I argue that he's worthy of "Democrat", "Liberal" and "Progressive". And I don't think Howard Dean, as much as I like him, warrants all those.

[Dookus]

41. Sorry...

I missed your other point.

Yes, I do, truly, believe that Clark is opposed to the militarization of the world. He has spoken out repatedly about the need for multilaterlaism and in favor of the UN.

Yes, he's military. He is NOT militaristic. And his public pronouncements on the subject bear that out.

Tinoire... let's have that drink and discuss it.

[RandomUser]

42. He proposed a new Department of Peace....seriously!

Washington Post article says he wants to form a new Department of International Assistance, so he will have an alternative to military solutions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14400-2003Sep28.html

[Tinoire]

45. Yes let's though I wish this had come up yesterday

because I'm booked this entire week with a DUer flying out to spend the week-end on Friday. How about this week-end when he's here? Otherwise it will have to be next week-end because I have a rough 2 weeks of work ahead of me training a new assistant and getting a big research project delivered on time.

I guarantee you that we will enjoy it because we're both pleasant people but it won't warm me up to Clark ;) either in person or on these boards. 20 years in the Army didn't do it so trust me, a few conversations won't do it either.

You read his Statement Before House Armed Services Committee 9/26/02: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=428798#428853

I found it a frightening and simple endorsement of what Bush did except that it would have been done with more finesse. The outcome would have been similar and that, I can't accept :shrug:

Peace and good-night

[RandomUser]

43. Nah, not in it for the bandwagon

I seriously believe in him. I was part of the draftclark thing. Debates came and he wasn't in, so I wrote him off and sided with Dean. Then Clark declared so I left Dean for Clark.

[quinnox]

44. A few comments

I think the title is a bit flamy, so all Clark supporters are desperate, this is absurd.

Also, the next day Clark said he would not vote for the war. Sure, it was a reversal, and Clark has taken heat for it, but strange that info is not included in the post.

And how many times is the Russian incident going to be rehashed, it has only been posted about 1000 times now.

I say all this as a non-Clark supporter, too. In fact, I have doubts about him, but this thread is beating a dead horse.