Why I don't like ANY of the candidates:

[blondeatlast]

Their supporters in GDF.

Look, I know where each of them claims to stand on the issues, I even know the times they have been hypocritical on them.

What I want to know now, as a still undecided Dem (and DON'T YOU DARE question my loyalty to the party!) is:

1. Have they got the cajones to back up their beliefs when it really matters?

2. When they are willing to compromise (this is a thing called politics) for the good of the party and the nation?

3. Lots of nuances that I can't get from the "wars" being fought here.

I no longer participate in the God wars in GDF; I can't change your mind and you can't change mine. The Clarkies are never gonna convince the Deanies, and so on.

I'm NOT calling for a halt to the "lively" discussions, some are rather anmusing. I am asking you to think before you attack: What am I doing to possible support from undecided Dems? Does what I'm about to say hurt my candidate more than help?

I will say one thing: his supporters have turned me COMPLETELY off of one candidate. I've even blocked his e-mails. Think about that for a minute . . .; no money, no volunteer, no support at all.

On edit: Unless, of course, he is the party's choice; then, and only then, will he have my support.

[Kahuna]

1. To be fair, the Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, Gephardt...

Graham, Sharpton and Mosley-Braun supporters pretty much stay above the fray. By your standards, couldn't you support one of them? :7

[OldSoldier]

4. You mean there are Lieberman supporters here?

Seriously, though, most of the shit slinging has come out of the Clark, Kucinich and Dean camps.

They're human beings, all of them. None are perfect.

I'm going to come right out and say it: If we cannot find some common ground, if we can't agree that the real war is against Little Hitler the Squatter over at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and his gang of thugs and bully boys, we are going to be looking at four more years of Bush. Or eight, or twelve, or however many it takes before the Russians drop a multinational division in on Washington and liberate America from the Republican Party. (They'll have it pretty easy--Bush has deployed so many soldiers to oil wars and wars against "terra," there aren't enough troops left in the United States to defend our own soil.)

Eight? Twelve? The fuckers don't follow the Constitution. They don't obey the law. What's to stop them from declaring martial law and installing Dubya as President for Life?

Is it going to take BTR-80s and Marders in the streets, Russian majors buying up all the six-foot chainlink fence in America and French troops seizing voter rolls and marching Republicans to concentration camps before America wakes up to the fact that Republicanism is a Disease With Only One Cure--RICOing the Republican Party?

[boxster]

2. Equating supporters to their candidate....

I think the bottom line is that you have to look at the candidates themselves, not the rabidity of their supporters.

Just because a few people on an internet forum can't understand that their unsubstantiated attacks and non-answer answers do nothing to help their candidates shouldn't be enough of a reason to completely discount that candidate.

Though, I share a similar sentiment. If I were to base my vote on the supporters of a specific candidate, one certainly wouldn't get my vote in the primary. But, I try to just ignore the petty bickering, research the issues, and try not to let the wackos influence my opinion.

That being said, it sure isn't easy! }(

[Mairead]

3. Have a look at Dennis Kucinich

1. Have they got the cajones to back up their beliefs when it really matters?

Dennis was elected mayor on the strength of his promise not to sell off Muny Light to its for-profit competitor, which was seeking a get-rich-quick monopoly. Knowing what was at stake in saying No to such powerful elite interests in Cleveland, Dennis nevertheless kept his campaign promise to the people and said No. And he paid a high price for that integrity. It cost him his mayor's job in the next election plus 15 years on the political shelf. It almost even cost him his house, because he couldn't find work.

I don't know of any other politician who has ever put his whole livelihood on the line to keep a promise to the people. That kind of integrity is more rare than hens' teeth.

2. When they are willing to compromise (this is a thing called politics) for the good of the party and the nation?

When Dennis finally got back into politics, it was by winning election to the state senate. Here's a snippit from a 1996 Cleveland Magazine article about him when he was a state senator standing for election to Congress:

What's also "annoying" is any attempt to find discontent with the senator in these hallowed halls. If you look for the turmoil, the tumult, the tragic errs of his ways, what do you find? "When I first started talking to Dennis about running for state Senate, a lot of people were telling me: 'Dennis Kucinich is a demagogue; he uses issues for his personal gain; he's a loner; he doesn't work well within a group; he won't take advice; he's headstrong; he knows it all,'" says Democratic state Sen. Robert Boggs. "I found out not only were those not true, but that Dennis is probably one of the most conscientious, effective members of the legislature that I've seen in my over 20 years there."

Impressive. But Boggs is a Democrat. In this era of partisan politics, he's supposed to like him. Let's look more.

"My first blush was, Oh no," says Republican state Sen. Grace Drake, chairperson of the Health Committee Kucinich serves on. "But it turned into a nice friendship and knowing a very, very nice person. He's an excellent legislator. And has proven to me in the Health Committee that he cares about people."

Another?

"Well, I'm not going to do your article any good, 'cause I really like Dennis Kucinich," says Republican state Sen. Richard Finan, chairperson of the Ways and Means Committee Kucinich serves on. "Now, we don't agree on a lot of issues, but I couldn't have a better committee member than Dennis."

"I fight the liberals tooth and nail," gloats {GOP state Sen.} Gary Suhadolnik, chairperson of the Energy, Natural Resources and Environment Committee Kucinich sits on. "I've been picketed by animal rights people, homosexuals, labor unions. I've had environmentalists dump garbage in my office. So I've had my share of confrontations with liberal activists. When Dennis rolled in, people thought that this would be the ultimate in personality clashes. And it hasn't been. It's been issue clashes. Dennis has not made it personal, he's made it philosophical and ideological."

He pauses then adds: "Philosophically, he's awful, OK? But I trust him. Does that make any sense? And, of course, I'm in an awful quandary here. I'd like to see him get out of the Senate, but then he'll be my congressman!" He laughs heartily. "What do I do? How do I win this one?"

3. Lots of nuances that I can't get from the "wars" being fought here.

Dunno how to respond to that. I think that Dennis, for all his flaws, is the best Dem candidate in a generation--a working-class FDR in his vision--and that if we don't elect him we might never get another chance in our lifetimes.

The stakes are high.

[moosedog]

5. I like Dennis..

I like him above all the other candidates. He won't win...he is too honest and not slick enough.

[Mairead]

7. If we support him---*really* support him--he'll win.

Have you given money yet? The quarter closes tomorrow. How about we make it a big one? Send a message?

[davhill]

6. Sounds like Graham

Is the candidate you are looking for. Unfortunately, the very qualities you mention have cost him badly in the polls and in fundraising. He is highly intelligent, highly experienced, and could work well with a Republican controlled congress.