Bible Question

[usregimechange]

Is Jesus praying here:

Luke 9:16
And taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke them, and gave them to the disciples to set before the crowd.

[Eric J in MN]

1. Yes, why? nt

nt

[usregimechange]

2. It was quoted to refute my contention that Jesus prohibited public

prayer.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. He didn't prohibit per se but neither did he go on and on like the

Pharisees about whome he made the private prayer statement. They were the Dobsons and Falwells and Robertsons of their day.

[usregimechange]

9. Well...

6:6
But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. So why did he pray in front of the 5000? Did he turn away from them and

have a private moment or was his prayer rule for everyone but him?

Honestly, I couldn't say.

Our family does say grace even in public though. Just not very loudly because the point is for us to be thankful for our food not impress the people around us with our 'rightesouness'.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Same here

I think that is what Christ is doing. It doesn't say he was making a show like some people do.

[Eric J in MN]

10. A blessing before food is a prayer, but not a series of prayers.

Orthodox Jews say a series of prayers 3 times a day, in addition to praying before meals and after meals and at other times.

I don't know if it was like that 2000 years ago.

[knitter4democracy]

11. How is what He did there an argument for public prayer?

They want public spoken prayers, and He didn't speak there, so how is that for their argument?

Sheesh, people can be so weird about Bible arguments . . . :eyes:

[usregimechange]

12. They claimed that Jesus was praying in public there.

[knitter4democracy]

15. But how is that for their argument for spoken public prayer?

I can do what Jesus did anywhere and anytime, just look up and silently pray. The kind of public prayer they're arguing for is for spoken prayer, and that's not what He did.

Ask them this: did Jesus contradict Himself, then? He said for us to hide our faith in a way, to pray privately, to hide when we're fasting and not go about publically proclaiming it. If He then went about publically proclaiming and praying, He contradicted Himself. How odd.

Even when He was on the cross, He kept it short and simple and mostly to Himself. When He preached, that was preaching and trying to help people understand the faith, which is very different than public prayer. Yes, He told us to spread the Gospel, but He also told us to be modest about it.

[ironman202]

17. not really a prayer...more like a miracle...

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I interpret it as thus, yes

[ohiosmith]

4. No. Why?

[usregimechange]

6. What makes think it isn't prayer?

[ohiosmith]

14. Where in the passage does it say he is praying?

Luke 9:16
And taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke them, and gave them to the disciples to set before the crowd.

[usregimechange]

16. I am not sure myself, but it sounds like it might be prayer. ???

[dbonds]

22. Actually, wouldn't Jesus being BLESSING and not PRAYING then.

Seems like he needed to be working some Mojo there to create the miracle.

[oneighty]

20. "Ovey ovey,

I hope this trick works." He is saying.

180

[QuettaKid]

8. Wasn't Jesus just a creation of Flavius Josephus?

Fiction....eh, what?:think:

[spuddonna]

5. He was thinking, "White wine would go better with this..." n/t

[dbonds]

19. I assumed he was thinking...

If we could take these fish, chop them up, and take all the bread, we would have a lot of good bait to catch enough fish to feed this whole crowd. Mystery solved.

[spuddonna]

21. Good point!

Or maybe it was "I'm tired of the dill seasoning... how bout lemon garlic this time"?

[riverwalker]

18. I think it was a simple blessing

or perhaps that is how the food was multiplied to feed the crowd. Blessing is just gratitude.

"Praying" in public is putting on a show, like Pat Robertson squinting up his eyes and grunting like he is having a BM, or waving your arms in the air imitating what the dull and unimaginative think religious ecstacy "looks" like (for the cameras and your neighbors).

[GeorgeBushytail]

23. You can "prove" anything with the Bible

Don't like "Turn the other cheek"? Then the Bible's got "An eye for an eye" for you.

Don't like "Judge not lest ye be judged"? Then try Levitus for some hateful judgment.

Slavery, death penalty, war, crusades - plenty of quotes to let you know you're doing the Lord's work.

Do you really think you'll make any headway debating religion with someone who doesn't agree with you? In computing circles we call any dispute that is based more on passion and belief than facts a "religious debate". That means it's ok for amusement but don't expect to learn anything from it.

[usregimechange]

24. Yes, I do and if liberals wouldn't abandon the Bible debates they

might be better off today. It is not their flag and it certainly isn't their Bible.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Then those who say that don't understand Christianity

Jesus Christ came and changed those rules. This is why he talked about loving thy neighbor and etc. The new way was confirmed when Jesus was crucified.

[Jo March]

28. An "eye for an eye" is so misunderstood!

It is not a Biblical endorsement of capital punishment. It is an analogy that is basically prohibiting excessive retribution - you know, like bombing the crap out of a country because you hate the ruler of that country.

Here is what Jesus had to say about that:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Here's a good explanation of that:

<snip>
The Bible's final reference to "an eye for an eye" is in the gospels: "You have heard it said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say unto you, do not resist him who is evil" (Matt. 5:38, 39). Jesus' standard fulfills and transcends " an eye for an eye." Governments are not merely forbidden to exercise arbitrary powers of coercion; Jesus forbids violence as a response to violence. (Doesn't bode well for Bush, does it??) This teaching is radical beyond belief and Christians have struggled with it ever since. Jesus saw what French philosopher Rene Girard calls "the inherent complicity between culture and violence"; Jesus saw the way humans have always employed scapegoating and severe, symbolic punishments to affirm their values and boost their egos. Indeed, He died at the hands of those who deemed Him a threat to the HONOR of Caesar.
<snip>

Here's the link if you'd like to learn more:
http://november.org/razorwire/rzold/04/0407.html

It's a good explanation of "eye for an eye."

As for the other references, Christians believe that Christ is the Savior - the Son of God. He was sent by God to die for our sins. So, Jesus's words are basically the law of the land. I'm putting it a little simplistically but bear with me.

So, when Jesus says, "Turn the other cheek", Christians are supposed to follow that. We follow the teachings of Christ and He taught patience, kindness, love, acceptance and tolerance.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Yes

He probably said a little prayer to bless the fish for their usage.