Why I'm thinking about leaving DU

[Selwynn]

I decided to post this in the general forums. The kind of stuff I'm seeing lately is really starting to make me not like this forum anymore. I've read here for well over a year, even though I don't have a high post count, but recently I'm starting to feel pretty ashamed of myself and of what I see in the community...

Seems like every thread I browse turns into in-fighting between zealots for one candidate who act just like fundamentalist right-wingers by being unwilling to listen to other points of view, disinterested in dialogue or actual debate, fanatically committed to dogma and talking points and ruthlessly obsessed with polarizing the issues as the "good guys" who support their candidate and the "bad guys" who don't and the same exact kind of people on the other side in support of a different candidate.

And although debates over candidates are the worst, it is certainly not the only example of this kind of closed minded mean-spiritedness. In the last six months I can count on my hand the number of times I've read a thread with thoughtful open minded discourse and even disagreement worthy of statesmanship, disagreement that is sophisticated where two disagreeing parties end up edified and actually better off for having the debate.

Every time I turn around there is yet another long chain of threads bashing the closed-minded obnoxiousness of religious right-wingers, or bashing the ignorance or dogmatism of the political right... but I don't see ANYTHING DIFFERENT HERE. Why is that?

I'm starting to think I should just browse this forum for any critical headlines, but ignore the community - I've seen little but in-fighting, name calling, intolerance, closed mindedness and just plain meanness. I'm failing to see what is supposed to separate "us" from all the people that so many of you seem to take such gleeful pleasure in deriding.

It's really starting to bum me out. Worse still the attitude is contagious - I've found myself succumbing and getting right down there in the dirt with everyone else and its not worthy of who I am, and its not worthy of any of you.

My post will change nothing - the forums will go right on being childish, mean-spirited and no better in attitude than anyone we are "against" - but it made me feel better to say it.

I wish that the vast majority of the people who contribute here, myself included, would take two steps back and grow up - again, myself included. It could be so much better if we were secure enough in ourselves to hear other peoples disagreement, opinions or perspectives without harassment, ridicule and antagonism.

But that will never happen - so I'm going to bed and I'll see you all tomorrow for another round of bitching and infighting between people just as entrenched in their own ideological positions as anyone we would consider the "other guys" - and acting just as bad. Woo hoo. Something to look forward too - a group of people representing my own ideals who act no better than the people who stand against everything I believe in... with friends like these, the saying goes..

Goodnight.

[XanaDUer]

1. If it makes you feel that bad

you should go.

Good luck.

[hewitt]

2. goodbye: don't let the door hit you . . . . .

n/t

[WilliamPitt]

33. What a nice thing to say

:eyes:

[bowens43]

3. That's politics.

Those who post here tend to take politics seriously and to feel strongly about their candidate of choice. It's not always pretty and it's not always logical. Tempers flair but you can bet that once a nominee is selected , the majority will rally around him/her and work together to get the idiot out of the oval office. Political boards are no place for the easily offended or the thin skinned.

I hope you find the kind of discussion you're looking for.

Peace.

[Iverson]

4. Selwynn, be subversive.

Nothing is more dangerous than a good example.

[LuminousX]

5. I'm ultra-sensitive

but I know I'm here for contentious arguments on the left side of the issues. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by the negativity. I may start to get really snippy or short with people, begin failing to see humor and sarcasm where it is meant, and in general start becoming too anxious that all of this matters more than it really does.

At those times I quietly step away. I spend a week or two reading non-political, non-discussion websites. I recharge myself.

Consider doing the same. Threatening to leave won't change anyone's behavior. It is a passive aggressive attempt to get people to beg for you to stay. A passive aggressive attempt to make people reconsider their opinions and beliefs. It isn't going to happen.

[IrateCitizen]

6. Seems to me you have three choices...

1. You can leave.

2. You can stay and still confine yourself to the sometimes mind-numbing knee-jerk threads of GDF.

3. You can stay and explore the rest of the boards for more meaningful, thoughtful discourse.

[bleedingheart]

7. Politics, Religion and Money bring out the fire in people

in varying degrees.

I can understand that you don't some of the discourse but discourse of any sort is healthy in a way.
Sometimes between the screams people do absorb or learn to respect each other...sometimes not.

Personally I do my best to avoid the Dem bashing threads...I prefer to focus on the real enemy of the people...those who would roll back over 80 years of progress.

[Booberdawg]

8. Agreed. It's too bad half this energy couldn't be put into bashing bush

instead of the candidates and each other. You are not alone - there are a lot of us out here who feel the same way. In fact, you don't see me in the candidate threads AT ALL. Not worth it. Fucking ridiculous. There will emerge one winner, and then I will stand behind that candidate, without having drawn several lines in the sand and steadfast conditions along the way about what I will and will not accept. Any of these candidates are a far sight better than what we have now, and I don't have to make a childish ass of myself in the meantime while that one candidate makes his way to the Democratic nomination.

Thanks for your comments.:toast:

[Trajan]

9. Damn ... so soon ? ....

And I DIDNT even know you were here ! ....

Do the Darwinian thing, and go whereever you want to go ....

There are no guarantees in this crazy life ....

[Redbear]

10. I hope you will stay.

Those of us who believe in the extreme importance of being nice and civil need to have a strong presence on the board.

[poskonig]

11. You'll be back!

This forum pissed me off too with all of the candidate bashing and the vote Democrat or else crap. I decided to leave. But within a week, I started to have withdrawal symptoms. :freak:

These kinds of posts do let you know who you friends are, however.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

--jason--

[LittleApple81]

12. Stay. Civility will come back.

Just stay in the generic page where posts for all forums are listed by date. Chose those you want to participate in. Read the others but do not participate. The more you participate in the ones you mind, even if it is to ask for civility, the more they will go to the top in GD.

[arwalden]

13. Here's Whatcha Do... Put The Flame Baiters On Ignore

POOF! They are gone!

The topics in GD are easier to read and participate in.

And... AMAZINGLY, you'll rarely see evidence of the ones you've ignored.

-- Allen

[Uzybone]

14. I agree with you

and the best option...is use the ignore button. Some people here will never issue a meaningful post so why bother reading them and getting pissed?

[jonnyblitz]

15. Something must be wrong with me because I don't mind all this.

Sure it gets totally insane sometimes but I am addicted to the give and take and the battling of ideas. If some people get out of hand they eventually get called on it and we move on. I don't know...If I wanted no more to do with DU I would just leave without posting a "see ya" post...

[Old and In the Way]

16. I hear your frustration...welcome to the DU

It's impossible to tell where the fanatics end and the Republican operatives begin. All I can say is ignore the clowns that seek to destroy any candidate to promote another. I suspect that many of those who make these posts don't really have the best interests of our Party in mind....or they view this as some kind of political Super Bowl.

I recommend avoiding any thread that attempts to denigrate any Democratic candidate. Each candidate has unique attributes that would make them Presidential material....and anyone of them is better than the criminal junta that occupies our Executive Branch now.

[stickdog]

17. I'm learned from and appreciated posts from many of my "worst enemies"

on this board.

That's why I love DU.

However, I do hate posters who argue like Republicans, in other words, using fallacies almost exclusively. I'm trying to learn to simply ignore them as much as possible.

[Flying_Pig]

18. Yada, yada, yada...... Bye, bye!

:hi:

[Bandit]

19. I really thought after school started most of the juvinile posters would

disappear. I guess I over rated the other posters because I agree with you greatly. I have been feeling much the same of late. This used to be such a fine community even the ones you disagree with usually have something to say. Now it is just meanness mostly. Maybe it will get better as more adults find this site. Maybe not. Keep checking back and who knows maybe a good thread will appear now and then.

[bigtree]

20. you see the assholes waving you goodby?

The want to silence you.

That's what you are up against.

There are also countless DUers who read but don't reply.

Over 30,000 of us.

Come back, and try different approaches.

And, stay away from the candidate flame wars! :P

[skypilot]

23. Replies like #1, #2, and #18...

...make me empathize and sympathize with Selwyn. I've learned to accept that there are unpleasant people here at DU just like there are anywhere else. I will say it: DON'T GO, SELWYN. The good guys shouldn't be the ones running away.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

25. He is bashing ALL OF DU, not just the candidate threads...

so all I can say is:

Na-na na na, na-na na na, hey hey GOODBYE! :hi:

[jonnyblitz]

26. No...if people don't like the nature of politics and this is too much for

them they can chose not to log into DU rather then post some holier-than-tho proclamation in an attempt to guilt us into silence. I say the creator of this thread wants to do the silencing of people. You have it ass backwards.

[Stuckinthebush]

21. I've been here almost since the beginning

I have seen hundreds of the "I'm going to leave because..." posts.

I usually don't respond to them because each person must decide what is right for her or him. But, I will say this.

The people who do end up leaving are gone, most forget about them and their voice is lost in the debate.

Those that stay work out their differences, develop tough skin, learn from the experience, and add their voices to the ever developing debate at DU.

The choice is yours. Very few people will say "Please stay!" or "Please go!". Most will say "Do what you feel is best."

So, I'm saying the latter, but know that you aren't the first and you won't be the last. Your choice is to determine if you want your voice to be heard in this forum or not.

That is as simple as it gets.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

28. I love it...

I point out that this guy is bashing ALL OF DU, not just the candidate threads, and I get deleted...

Let me quote him again:

And although debates over candidates are the worst, it is certainly not the only example of this kind of closed minded mean-spiritedness. In the last six months I can count on my hand the number of times I've read a thread with thoughtful open minded discourse and even disagreement worthy of statesmanship, disagreement that is sophisticated where two disagreeing parties end up edified and actually better off for having the debate.

Yep, that's right, he is saying that NEARLY EVERY THREAD IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS WAS WORTHLESS.

This guy is ANTI-DU, and thus is NO GREAT LOSS! The sooner he goes the better.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

32. Maybe You Should Stop Saying That People Who Disagree With You

Should be posting on FR? Then I bet your posts wouldn't get deleted.

:shrug:

DTH, Who Isn't Keen on Ejecting Thoughtful People Just Because They Have the Occasional Criticism of DU and Don't Pass DA_NZ's Purity Test

[Devils Advocate NZ]

41. So you agree that ALL of DU including eveything you have posted...

over the last six months is worthless?

Who ever said ANYTHING about "ejecting" him? HE said he was considering leaving, and I said that he might consider Free Republic as a future stomping ground - I mean we all know the threads over there are SO MUCH better than what passes for discussion on DU right?

What I don't get is why so many DUers agree with what he said - he basically called us ALL nothing better than freepers.

Why wasn't HIS post deleted?

If people don't like DU they are welcome to go somewhere else, but they shouldn't expect everyone to agree with them, and they can expect some of us who are LOYAL to DU to stick up for the place...

[Catherine Vincent]

24. I'm glad I don't have a candidate yet.

So I don't care about all the in fighting. I fall under ABB. But what I don't get is why do posters leave messages like yours telling us they may leave. Who cares? No one knows anyone here personally.

[DemExpat]

27. It comes down to what YOU are focussing on, Selwynn.....

You need to learn to be more choosy on DU and with a simple click on the mouse move out of the crappy threads.

There are plenty of good ones!

Put a few on Ignore - although I've never done this, and have learned a lot from some of my ideological (and personality type) 'opposites'.

But as someone said above, religion and politics are passionate topics, and the anonymity of Internet sometimes brings out the worst.

Just stay away from those offensive ones and you'll be fine.

:hi:
DemEx

[Devils Advocate NZ]

29. You didn't read his post properly!

As far as he is concerned there are NO good threads.

Well, I tell a lie. He said he can count on his hand the number of threads he considers good IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, or basically half the time he said he's been lurking here.

If this guy took your advice he wouldn't see ANY THREADS because he would have us ALL on ignore.

Read it again:

And although debates over candidates are the worst, it is certainly not the only example of this kind of closed minded mean-spiritedness. In the last six months I can count on my hand the number of times I've read a thread with thoughtful open minded discourse and even disagreement worthy of statesmanship, disagreement that is sophisticated where two disagreeing parties end up edified and actually better off for having the debate.

Yep, that's right its not just the candidate bashing threads, its nearly every thread this guy has read on DU in SIX MONTHS. In other words it almost certain that YOU are one of the people he considers to be no better than a freeper, just like me, and just like basically everyone on DU, EXCEPT for himself.

How does that make YOU feel?

Me, I think he should stop considering leaving, and just do it.

[Skittles]

30. OMG

already? get a freakin' spine.

[Renew Deal]

31. You should stay.

I have been part of the problem, not the solution also. You should stay. We are back to the fun loving Bush bashing today. Things are looking up (for now).

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. ciao!...sounds as if you took a wrong turn back in the road anyway

sorry it took you over a year to figure out how unhappy you were....it begs asking: are you a masochist? just $0.02

[chadm]

35. This is temporary

When the candidate is selected I anticipate that this will change. People will either be with the Dems or against them. What you see now is natural and healthy.

[FlemingsGhost]

36. "If you are going to shoot, SHOOT!...

don't stand there talking about it."

-- Tuco, (Eli Wallach) from "The Good, Bad, and the Ugly."


Talk is cheap.

[maha]

37. You're right.

Zealotry is zealotry, whether right-wing or left-wing. There are people here who are way too eager to spread Karl Rove's lies du jour about the "other" Dem candidates.

It's one thing to have princpled disagreements (for example, Should we roll back ALL the tax cuts or just some? Should we go to a single-payer health care system or not?). But lies are not princpled disagreements.

[Selwynn]

38. Ok I hadn't planned to reply but, some good points...

Three things I learned from your comments that will help:

1) you're right I'm going to have to be more choosy on the threads I get involved in. I really don't appreciate religion bashing, so I'll probably steer clear of a lot of the religious threads. And really can't stand the candidate bashing, so if I'm strong enough (breathes deep) maybe I'll stay clear of some of that too.

2) I've never put anyone on ignore, and maybe that's part of my problem.

3) My original post was in no way some attempt to get people to beg me to stay -- I have 150ish posts, like anyone would even care! Someone said that's why I posted. I said what I said because sometimes it just feels good to say things. If you are a very idealistic person such as I am, you come to a strange kind of pathology where 90% of the time you know what you think is right will never actually happen, and you begin to take some comfort in at least speaking out what you believe to be right even if there's really no hope in it ammounting to anything. I actually expected 90% of the responses to be attacks, so it was a pleasant surprise.

I'm going to work very hard to be a constructive member of these boards, and I guess lead by example or something. I ask that when I post in the future in a less than civialized way, you might say "hey, remember you'r post about changing the tone of the forums?" Then I will be reminded and feel chastized. :)

I want a community where debate is welcomed, where different points of view aren't seen as a threat, where all kinds of people - religious, non-religious, moderates and progressives, Clark fans, Dean fans, and every other kind of fan are actually welcome and happy to have each other around to enage in dignified and inspirational dialogue and debate. Yes, yes that is indeed a flowery idealistic picture, but its something to strive for still, yes?

So I'm going to try hard to do my part. And I expect to be called on the carpet when I don't live up to the standards I desire to maintain.

Cheers!
Sel

[DoveTurnedHawk]

39. Thanks for Your Thoughtful Post

And I'm glad you decided to stick around.

DTH

[Devils Advocate NZ]

43. So, how are you going to avoid the stuff you don't like?

Considering the fact that you said that fewer than TEN THREADS IN SIX MONTHS came up to your standards?

I guess we can expect not to see a lot of you huh?

However, if you are willing to grace us with your presence, I am sure us lowly DUers, who are no better than freepers, will be glad to hear what you have to say.

[bearfartinthewoods]

40. considering your expressed opinion of DU

with friends like you, the saying goes..

[einsteins stein]

42. Two Words, Selwyn: "Ignore-Feature"

Use it. Live it. Love it!

I used to be proud of having an empty ignore list...thought I could deal with anything DU threw my way!

...until I often found myself not having any fun here.

That sucked!

So I started creating my own little subset of DU. The candidate bashers are a dying breed, and the snarky freepers in diguise are being picked off one by one. It's like having a natural selection option, and YOU are Nature :-) (and it's amazing what having an active ignore list does for your blood pressure!).

However, I follow the principle that ignoring someone is a private act, and shouldn't be bragged about. Ther's no glory in ignoring someone, just a high level of relief. Enjoy it, don't flaunt it, and enjoy DU the way YOU think it should be. After all, we're are mostly here to feel some support, right? DU is, IMO, like a big support group, and the Ignore feature is a great option for getting a custom fit.

You want challenges? Go to college, read a good book, or visit your family for the holiday. THAT'S certainly challenging, for me anyway. :eyes:

But while at DU, let the ignore options be youtr friend. Use it, hang around, and be a happier Selwyn than you were before!


Its a beautiful world we live in
A sweet romantic place
Beautiful people everywhere
The way they show they care
Makes me want to say
Its a beautiful world - Its a beautiful world - Its a beautiful world!
For you...For you...For you...

Its a wonderful time to be here
Its nice to be alive
Wonderful people everywhere
The way they comb their hair
Makes me want to say
Its a wonderful place - Its a wonderful place - Its a wonderful place!
For you...For you...For you...


edited because I had a sudden urge to add some Devo to the mix