a choice: your 18 yr old joins the Army or is unemployed on welfare

[no_to_war_economy]

just makes me wonder how parents let their kids join the war machine

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. How about get a job or go to college?

There are other options in the real world.

[Kipling]

Yeah, but maybe not if you're poor enough.

The economy goes down the plughole and nobody without a university degree can get a job, and your son doesn't have one cause you can't afford it, and he refuses your charity: if he rung you up and said "Mind if I join the Marines?", what would you say?

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. There are jobs out there for 18 year olds

They aren't all great, but they are there. As long as they don't have a criminal record and are willing to live with their parents they do not have to go into the military out of economic necessity.

[Bluerthanblue]

21. key to your argument

is 'willing to live with their parents'-

many 18 yr olds don't have that option-
far too many-
and it's damn hard to get a job when you don't have an address.

McDonalds doesn't pay a wage that would allow a person to afford rent even of the most modest flop house in our area, and have ANY money left over for like, food?

it's the sad truth for far too many young not so privlidged youths-

Prison is sometimes a better choice than the military- now THAT is sad.

[no_to_war_economy]

25. in TX some judges give the convicted a choice

serve your time in the military or serve your time in prison

thats another good question, your 18 convicted in TX, you pick the army or the prison

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. Another good reason not to break the law in Texas

[Sapphire Blue]

44. The 'law' in Texas... Tulia Madness

http://www.pbs.org/now/society/herbert.html

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Are you really telling me that they are going to give a convict an m-16?

I have a feeling that what they mean by serve your time in the military, is serve your time in non combat duty, which probably doesn't even involve going to Iraq let alone putting your body on the line.

[no_to_war_economy]

32. not convicted murders but first timers in the system

I heard about this on WBEZ - This American Life, I am trying to find some facts on it

[tomg]

39. Back in 69 - 70 this was fairly

common. My platoon leader in basic ( before I was released as a CO) got popped for drugs, and was given a choice ( and he was from New York if I recall) three in the army or five in jail. For him, that was a no-brainer.

[no_to_war_economy]

48. would like some research on how many convicts

ended up in Iraq, that would be interesting to see

[evilqueen]

51. Are you trying to say that military people have a choice...

on whether they go into combat, carry an m-16, or not?


They don't. And even though women are not supposed to be *in* combat according to the military's own regulations, they *are* now.

[Hippo_Tron]

57. No, my point was that they aren't going to put convicted felons in combat

Because that would require giving them an m-16 which might lead them to shoot their fellow soldiers.

[evilqueen]

59. Once you're in, they don't care how you got in.

They don't screen who can carry a weapon and who should not. They don't care about that. If you're wearing a uniform, you are just like everybody else (with the exception of rank)... that is WHY they call it a UNIFORM.

[rainbow4321]

63. They did that to a lady in Oklahoma...

Forget what she did, but it was pick jail time or the military.

She had chosen the army and then all of this chimp terror stuff hit, his wars started, and she tried to not show where the Army wanted her to be...they went to her house and dragged her away...she was shipped out at some point and is over there now.

[mtnester]

47. Not to mention all the college grads who are around 22 - 25 who had to

go back to work at the jobs they had when they were 18 cause there ARE no jobs out there for them that support rent, etc. The ones that are out there are in heavy competition with the 30-50 something crowd who:

1. Have lost their retirement and are starting over and willing to undercut your wages because they are desperate (and have more experience)

2. Have lost their jobs and unemployment has run out, they have kids and mortgages, are willing to undercut your wages because they are desperate. (and have more experience)

3. Kids that are 16 that are living at home and willing to undercut your wages cause their parents still support them and a job is for extra fun money (and they have no experience and can be bossed around pretty hard)

Those 20 somethings are NOT giving up, and do not want to move back home, but they are barely squeaking by waiting tables, etc because they do not want to disappoint their families by moving back in, even though the families offer.

It is just not for the not so privileged youth..young people are hurting...and I am not referring to young slackers either...these kids WANT to work, and damned if our administration is not giving them many options..none of them want welfare either, and most won't take "gifts" from the parents.

My son told me "Mom, I am light years behind those of my friends that did not go to college...they moved up the ladder in the jobs they got, and I am back to square one, with a resume out all over the place, and waiting tables to pay my rent. I was NOT prepared for this."

OK, I got some of that out of my system now...for the moment. I am having an ANGRY day.

[Bluerthanblue]

55. thank you

for pointing that out- it is NOT just the 'lower class' kids who are up against it- and i forgot what it was like when i dropped out of college and worked at a sneaker factory trying to pay off my student loans which seem like a pitance now, but were humongous then- and i HAD shelter available to me, which helped tremendously.

i'm sorry your son is struggling so- how frustrating for you both- my son not only didn't go to college, he graduated from 'homeschool' high school.- and was hired on to a job with benifits, retirement, and stability two months after his 18th birthday- against all odds- he has an uncanny intelligence where motors, engines, and mecanical ability are concerned- and was an eager 'apprentice' to many very kind, knowledgeable friends who taught him everything they knew, and he sucked it in. He won't ever be materially rich doing what he does, but he has no outstanding debt, and many dreams.

My heart goes out to your son- i hope he has success soon- and i apologize for not recognizing the struggles kids like him face, and how frustrating and demoralizing that must be. Especially going on to further schooling where he was likely told he should expect a return for all his study and work. Only to be met by this "fake" growing economy.

i know about angry days- i'm having alot of them myself- but you are focusing your anger where it belongs- on the injustice of this mixed up world- and standing up for your son, who many would sterotype incorrectly- which is educating others about the truth-

i wish you the best,
blu

[mtnester]

61. Thanks for the response

My son will be fine, it will just be a rough couple of years until this screwed up sick administration is removed completely.

He is positive. He knows things will get better. But I do have to say that there are a lot of angry young people out there...angry at themselves for not working harder to get this dumbass out of office in 04, and angry at us too for not getting him out either...after all, we as parents always look out for our children and do what is best for them, and GW definitely is not what is best for them or anyone, so they are somewhat confused as to how adults that should have the best interest of others in mind were actually able to put him right back into office. And boy howdy, these youngsters are educating themselves in a jackrabbit minute on the minutia of the why and what on the politics of this administration, and the connections that finger out to senators, locals, house members, private industry.

If we thought young people were a new force in 2004, WAIT until 06 and 08. They are loading their weapons.

[Kipling]

2. Depends. Is there a war on? Who's in charge?

If it was a decent PM, then Army. If it's still Blair, though, welfare all the way.

[Droopy]

3. An 18 year old is an adult

If your 18 year old wants to join the military there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

[evilqueen]

52. Damned right.

My son is in USMC bootcamp as we speak.

You think I didn't do everything I could to talk him out of it and stop him from going? I sure did.

I couldn't stop him. He's 18.

[libhill]

66. I never agreed with that

they can't drink alcohol, they can't buy tobacco products, and they can't vote - but they can go get their ass shot off in an unnecessary war? America should put up or shut up.

[tx_dem41]

69. Ummm...they can vote.

I believe the amendment was passed more than 30 years ago.

[libhill]

70. I stand corrected -

but I stand by the rest of my post - if they're not old enough to drink or smoke, they're not old enough to die in an illegal, ill advised, insane fucking war.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. How about doing community service or volunteering?

There isn't any good reason to join the chimperors army of haliburton's martyrs.

[Bluerthanblue]

22. a place

to sleep at night, and a meal?

We ARE talking about america at large here aren't we?
What a wonderful world this would be if volunteering or community service, could also insure the basic necessities of life for
an 18 yr old with no place to 'go'-

Do you know of any opportunities?

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Try a Catholic Worker house.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. are you

pulling my leg, or serious?

i don't believe there are many of those here in northern new england-
and most of the mills closed down leaving a huge gap in employment opportunities.
i'm fortunate to not be 18, and my oldest son, who is 21 had the extreem good fortune to be exceptionally gifted with machanical ability and has been working for the highway department for 3 years now, getting his cdl on his own, and thanks to many mentors who are old hippy friends of mine, and glad to help him make his way.

i've watched his friends, stumble fall and die though, for lack of a 'future'. suicide- drugs- and signing up.
Options for lower class kids, especially rural ones are VERY limited.

[The_Casual_Observer]

45. Not trying to pull your leg. I'm not offering a blanket solution

for the masses. I am thinking about what might work for a single individual who is willing be to dedicated and work under difficult conditions. The big picture is too much for me.

[politicat]

46. Not sure where you are, but that's unrealistic in most places.

The CW houses in Phoenix metro, where I grew up (and was a member of the Arch-Diocese) had a very, very long waiting list for the 30 or so beds they had available. Most of their clientele lived on the streets and used the Brother Andre facilities for food, clean-up, basic medicines and the like... but they lived in the streets.

In Denver, the waiting list is even longer, and thus people DIE in the winters from exposure.

I can tell you right now that if an 18 year old walked in to most of the private charities and said, "My options right now, having been kicked out of my dad's house, are to join the Military or to live on the streets because I can't get a job that will support me because I only have a high school diploma. I really don't want to go military. Can you help me?"

The charity will be happy to drive him down to the recruiting office and find him a temporary bed in a shelter until he has to go to Basic.

Charities are strapped right now and don't have the resources to deal with the client load they have. If they can pawn someone off on the Military, they're going to.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. If I had an 18-year-old who had no college ambitions, I would give

this ultimatum: "Either you go to vocational school, or you spend 40 hours a week looking for a job until you find a job."

[tx_dem41]

6. The person is 18 yo. They can do what they want.

Also, why are these the only choices?

[no_to_war_economy]

8. just trying to think like a red stater

if you live in a shit hole town in the south and alot of kids have these two choices ahead of them

[tx_dem41]

12. I'm not sure why you limit it to the South....or even to a

"shit hole town" in general. Many kids THINK that's all the choices they have. These limitations are largely self-inflicted.

[Bluerthanblue]

24. no limits you are right,

but saying that kids 'think' they have no other choices, because they 'limit' themselves is SO WRONG and SO unfair.

i challenge you to go out, say to philladelphia, HS diploma only- no money, no 'home'- (that is REALITY for many 18yr olds) and get yourself a job, that will allow you to just make ends meet-

a LEGAL job that is-

We don't want to face the truth- it's easier to blame the victims of this capitalist laisse-faire system.

Minimum wage jobs don't pay enough for a person to survive- that is a FACT- but not one people care too much about.

[tx_dem41]

28. I'm not placing blame solely on the "victims", and I shouldn't have used.

the word "largely". That said, I'm seeing too many kids that don't want to work, and are content staying at home for free instead. And, I'm around a lot of people in their late teens and especially 20s.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. i can

understand your frustration-

Guess we come from very different situations though- i got my first job at 15, my oldest son began working at 14 (farm work)

What bothers me, are the kids my sons's age, who have NO options- they can't 'stay home'- and they can't get jobs that will support them.
My son contributes financially and physically to our family's ability to function. And does so without nagging or complaint. Over the last 2 years he lost 2 close friends to dwi- kids that had no where to 'be' and no hope for of a future.

Minimum wage jobs should be 'livable wage' jobs- it's too easy to get stuck working at some mw job, have to 'room' with other kids who can't afford a place other than shared rooms, and drink themselves to numbness because life holds no promise of ever changing.-

i wish i owned a mansion, and had the energy time and ability to bring out the potential in what i see in so many of these lost children.-

but wishes arent horses, and beggars don't ride

[tx_dem41]

40. Not entirely different situations...

I got my first job at 13 when I got a newspaper delivery route (remember when kids actually did that!?!).

[NNN0LHI]

31. You wouldn't advise your 18 year old not to kill other people

That strikes me as odd.

Don

[tx_dem41]

33. Lovely way that you put words in people's mouths.

Can you point out where I said that? :eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

35. Are these your words? "The person is 18 yo. They can do what they want."

:popcorn:

[tx_dem41]

41. And these are yours....

"You wouldn't advise your 18 year old not to kill other people".

Now yours don't seem to match mine...at all, in fact. Odd.

:popcorn:

[shanti]

36. not if they lived in MY house

i wouldn't allow any of my sons to just lounge around doing nothing.

[tx_dem41]

42. And that's good.

My question back would be...."Why is an 18 yo adult still living at home with his parents?"

[politicat]

50. Because rent is more than you can bring home on minimum wage??

Simple math here: average rent on a basic studio/bedsit apartment is $400 a month. In some areas, it's lower, but normally, it's higher. Utilities run about $100 a month, considering a phone is a necessity to work at many places, and a basic phone line runs $30 from Qwest after all of the taxes are added on. (Two bucks more gets you voice mail and all the goodies...) Since Qwest is a local monopoly like most other Baby Bells, I assume the rates are about equivalent here and elsewhere.

At best, a person can live on $6 worth of food per day, assuming that person has decent equipment (which most newly kicked out kids won't have) and skills (another big assumption.) Transportation costs will be at least $3.00 a day, if not more; it's rare in the US for anyone to be able to find a job within walking distance. In most places, the jobs are in the urban core, and the affordable housing is way out in the burbs where there are no busses.

You also have to assume that the kid leaves home with a significant nest egg: 3 months living expenses in pocket. To get an apartment is first, last and a security deposit equal to a month's rent; stocking the cabinets is always more expensive than the maintenance groceries; the utilities companies often require deposits and the basic furniture of mattress, bedding, something to sit on and something to eat off of run at least $100 at a thrift store. I know I didn't have $2500 in savings until I was well past 21, and I'm frugal and a saver by nature.

So figure expenses at 400 + 100 + 180 + 90 = 770. That's the bare baseline a person must have to survive.

Minimum wage is $5.15 an hour, and taxes and SS take about 30% of that for a single person.

Most mimimum wage jobs schedule people for 30 to 35 hours a week to keep them technically part time, since there are federal laws that require benefits to be offered to full timers that are not required to part timers.

So figure 32.5 hours a week, 4 weeks a month at $5.15 an hour, with 30% going to taxes, FICA and SS = $669.50

Most minimum wage work is also physically demanding, difficult and often outright dangerous; it is very difficult to work two of these jobs, and many employers will seek to fire someone they know has a second job because they want the employee devoted to one job or the other.

So looking at the numbers.... the reason 18 year olds live at home with their parents is because they can't afford to live elsewhere.

Also note that for several young adults to get together and share an apartment is becoming nearly impossible; first, they don't have the credit; second, many towns have instituted anti-roommate laws that forbid more than 3 adults from living in the same house, and the rent for a 3 or four bedroom house is often more than the individual rents for several studios would be. (Local numbers, gleaned from the ForRent Magazine and the newspaper today: lowest price on a studio is $395 in the "ho zone" down on Colfax, where much of Denver's crime and prostitution takes place. Rent for a 3 bedroom apartment in the same area, assuming you can get the apartment, is $1400 a month. Rent for a Studio in a "desirable" part of town is $550 -600; rent for a 3 bedroom apartment or house in the same area starts at $1900.)

It's been 13 years since I moved out of my mother's house and into first the dorms, then student housing, then off-campus housing. I think I was one of the last generation able to do that with a) federal aid, b) student loans, c) grants d) scholarships, and e) part time work. I was lucky enough to come from a recently low-income family (my parents had divorced, my father retired, and my mother had been unemployed for a few months) and have stellar grades that put me at the top of the lists for aid; I was an instate student and I lived in an area and didn't mind living in an area with a high crime rate and low rents. Today, there are no low rents, everywhere is a high crime area, and there are more kids who need financial help than there are dollars to get it.

Today's college kids can't pay for school without significant parental assistance, and if mom and dad (or more likely, mom and step-dad and dad and new girlfriend) are unable to help, then college and independent living are out of reach for most kids.

And not just kids.... I know several 40+ adults who live with their parents (or have their parents live with them) because none of them can afford to live independently of the others. Used to be a teacher could make a living -- not any more. I have a friend who has 20 years teaching science to high school kids, and he and his parents need him to live with them because they can't live on what income they have separately. My father and my uncle live with my grandmother to help support her and so that they have enough money to pay child support (in my father's case) and put my cousin through college (in my uncle's case.)

The real economy is not pretty.....

[tx_dem41]

53. I never said it was pretty.

And, I truly appreciate the time you put into that answer.

I'm 42 now, but factoring in inflation, your cost breakdowns and wages were the same back when I was 18-22. For one thing, 1-2 roommates is a necessity, to help cut into the cost of housing. And, there is nothing wrong with getting a little subsidy from parents.

To me though, the benefit you get out of "living on your own" is vital to future maturity. The kids that I see now (and living in an entertainment area...bars, clubs, etc.), I see kids that live with their parents and never mature emotionally because of it. Heck, I see "kids" in their 30s and even 40s that still rely on their parents because their parents have always "been there" for them in excessive ways. It might be a cliche, but there is a reason in nature that momma birds kick those baby birds out of their nests.

[politicat]

56. Often when parents kick a kid out, they stop the money flow, too.

That's one of the motivating factors for parents forcing a child out - they are tired of supporting it. Besides, with a lot of low and middle income kids, once they're on their own, that's it. Mom and dad can't afford to help them any more. (My parents loaned me exactly $112 from the time I moved out until I moved to Colorado... and all of it had to be paid back within a month. (The fact that I've loaned my mother something on the order of $2k that has not been paid back is for another time....) )

I agree that people should leave home - or at least, the situation should change at adulthood to push independence (i.e. put in a separate entrance, draw up a lease, formalize the relationship the new adult has to his or her housing). My mother and my youngest sister worked this out by finishing the room above the garage, charging my sister 15% of the water, electric and phone bill (based on total square footages) and a flat monthly rent equal to 1/3 of my sister's income after taxes. My sister had her own place to live, had to be responsible for it, but it was a better deal for both my mother and my sister than they could have gotten otherwise. (Mom could not rent it out; her HOA would not allow it.)

It is not only unrealistic, it is impossible to expect an 18 year old to be able to survive. When I was 19 and looking for an apartment, only one of the lessors ran a credit check on me (I didn't have credit at the time - I was a blank piece of paper, having just come out of the dorms.) Now, it's the first thing a lessor does. I could not have gotten an apartment if my landlord had insisted on a credit score better than 0. 18 year olds are in the same position. 3 roommates, all with no credit, and the urban myths about what bad tenants kids make? They won't get an apartment. The fact is that while the numbers, when factoring inflation, have stayed about the same, the social circumstances have seriously changed.

Back in the 70s (from my parents' tales) 10 or 15 kids could rent a big house in a rundown area and create a revolving door of roommates. This was something of a rite of passage. Now, that big, rundown, ramshackle house is likely to be on the market for several hundreds of thousands of dollars, and is being gentrified out from under the tenants, if there are any. Out in the burbs, big houses are in covenant controlled communities that don't allow roommates, or only allow one non-related person to live in a house. (While my sisters and I could have lived together, most siblings can't.) There's been a lot of, for lack of better word, anti-communal living legislation going on quietly since the 60s and 70s, and what used to be practical is now impossible. In rural areas, the situation is worse -- the jobs in small family businesses and the little grandparents houses and trailers are mostly gone, the jobs killed by walmart, the little houses sheltering family members in worse shape than the teenagers.

I see normal kids, not club kids, many of whom still live at home, but are responsible and saving for their futures or working towards their futures. A lot of them work at volunteer gigs in addition to paid work (I work for the Democratic Party) because they know they don't have a chance in hell unless the system changes.

How do you know that the people you're seeing (and if you saw me, you'd probably put me in the kid zone, because I look very young for 29) are living with their parents, anyway? How do you know they're not young professionals or students or some mixture of both?

Just so you know, the kicking the baby out of the nest is a myth.... Fledgling birds leave on their own, not because their parents kick them out of the nest. Often, they fall out of the nest on their own while trying to learn to fly, and are cared for on the ground by their parents until they can fly. But just because birds, with a cranial capacity of less than 50 ccs, do it doesn't mean that humans, with culture and history and knowledge and empathy should emulate them. The reason we grew our big brains was to be social creatures who care for each other. If we could eat earthworms and mosquitos for our main sustenance, I'd not worry so much, but the world being what it is....

[shanti]

58. do you have kids?

not every kid is privileged enough to have parents finance their college educations. also, some parents (and cultures) prefer their children stay at home with them until they are married, educated, etc. lots of reasons...

[tx_dem41]

60. From personal experience, and

experience seeing those kids (friends) that didn't leave home, generally its healthy to be somewhat independent and mature emotionally in the process.

[yurbud]

7. I would say Army if it wasn't for two words: DEPLETED URANIUM

I wouldn't want my kid to die before me or have horribly deformed grandkids, and both seem pretty likely given the results of the first gulf war exposure to DU.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[jackster]

9. My 27 yr old Bush-lovin' son is volunteering for Iraq...

he's prior military but now jobless and homeless. While I believe that the military itself was good for him and provided him the structure that he needed (he flourished while there), volunteering to fight this insane war is another thing!

My bf wants to know why I don't try to stop him?

HOW??????

If they are of legal age there's not one damn thing you can do. My son knows I don't support this war, but he does know that I love and support him. He will do what he must do, I will do what I must do. While we don't agree, we do respect that about each other.

[no_to_war_economy]

10. i am not the type to tell you what to do but

I take it that you have discussed the fact that he may DIE for bush's policies

[NNN0LHI]

30. Or kill some poor bastard who just wants him to leave his country n/t

[jackster]

34. yes, he's been in the army,

and while he was never deployed, he was on "alert" a couple of times and it was difficult for us both. He admitted that if push came to shove he wouldn't WANT to go and risk death but that he knew it was his duty.

[BOSSHOG]

13. Love him and support him in his decision

and let him know it. That's the best a Mom can do. Be optimistic. We may all survive this bush nightmare and when sanity again makes its way into the white house your son may have a nifty military career ahead of him. To be just a tad tacky; ensure you son has his affairs in order prior to leaving. Will, power of attorney. You indicate he doesn't have much but the military will offer him the opportunity of a life insurance policy. Please accept this advice from a Veteran who had to deal with many families whose deceased Servicemembers did not dot all the I's nor cross all the T's. Good luck and God Bless.

[tx_dem41]

20. Perfect advice. n/t

[jackster]

38. Thanks BossHog....

very good advice that I might NOT have remembered or even thought of. Will do.....

There are just personal possessions - not even life insurance anymore. I know that once he's enlisted there will be insurance and the like and in deference to me, I believe he will make sure that everything is in order, but we will definitely have the conversation should it come to that.

Thank you again....

[KarenInMA]

11. No healthy 18 year old should be on welfare.

They can get jobs, they can go to community college, funded by gov loans and grants for even the poorest people.

[Zorra]

15. I thought people could only get welfare if they have dependent

children.

This isn't true?

[KarenInMA]

19. I don't know.

I know that at 18, if you don't have children, and you are healthy, you should be doing something- waitress, work at a gas station, temp, work at a groccery store, do sales, paint houses, work for the highway, etc etc. none of these are fun, but that's what people do.

[ohio_liberal]

68. Depends on state guidelines I think

An able-bodied 18 year old male, forget it. He might be able to get some help with college expenses. I know Ohio has some programs, not generally known to the public, that will help any person pay for gas to and from college, that sort of thing. Of course, that's only as long as the money is available. It's fairly limited.

[Mairead]

16. Except that there is no "on welfare" anymore, so it's cannon fodder

or nothing.

[gratuitous]

17. Peace Corps, VISTA, AmeriCorps

Brethren Volunteer Service. Hopefully, any child of mine that reached 18 years of age would be inculcated with a sufficient sense of obligation to all of humanity that joining the military would not be an option.

[rainbow4321]

64. Potential problem with the Peace Corp...

at some point they may be seen by other countries as an extension of the army.

A few weeks ago a story was floated that said the military was going to offer up Peace Corp time as one option for military folks to fulfill the remainder of their military obligation. Peace Corp officials were never told and now they fear that these new members may have people in other countries thinking the Peace Corp is "part of" the US military instead of being what they really are...peaceful volunteers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/01/AR2005080101310.html

The U.S. military, struggling to fill its voluntary ranks, is offering to allow recruits to meet part of their military obligations by serving in the Peace Corps, which has resisted any ties to the Defense Department or U.S. intelligence agencies since its founding in 1961.

The recruitment program has sparked debate and rising opposition among current and former Peace Corps officials. Some welcome it as a way to expand the cadre of idealistic volunteers created by President John F. Kennedy. But many say it could lead to suspicions abroad that the Peace Corps, which has 7,733 workers in 73 countries, is working together with the U.S. armed forces.


"Does this raise red flags for the Peace Corps community? I'd say yes -- emphatically so," said Kevin Quigley, president of the National Peace Corps Association, an organization of returned volunteers, staff and supporters. "We think a real or perceived linkage between the Peace Corps and military service could damage the Peace Corps and potentially put the safety of Peace Corps volunteers at risk."

Congress authorized the recruitment program three years ago in legislation that drew little attention at the time but is stirring controversy now, for two reasons: The military has begun to promote it, and the day is drawing closer when the first batch of about 4,300 recruits will be eligible to apply to the Peace Corps, after having spent 3 1/2 years in the armed forces. That could happen as early as 2007.

[pocket]

18. you don't have to kill anyone to get a welfare check

so guess what I pick

[w8liftinglady]

43. Sometimes you have to let kids grow up.

Was I thrilled when my son went into the Army?...No,but we weren't in Iraq yet,either.I'm a single mom,and he thought it would be a good way to learn a trade and save money for school,plus travel.It's hard to argue with that when all the places in our area are laying off.
Would you suggest a parent throw their body in front of their ADULT child?I wish I would have,but that would have served to make my kid more dependent,not allowing him to grow.

[SoCalDem]

49. Welfare for 18 yr olds is so 70's..and all but extinct now

The republican assumption is that "barely above minimum wage' jobs are just fine for 18 yr olds, and they are available in most places, so NO welfare,unless there's a girl with a pregnancy or baby involved.

The "lowered expectation" is what drives kids to the military.. On $6.50 an hour: you're not gonna have :

much of a car
any extra money to blow (like every 18 yr old wants to)
any extra money to save for traveling
an apartment away from Mom & Dad
and extra time/money to attend even community college classes
any money for medical insurance that the cheapo job fails to provide...

There was a time when most communities had factory/manufacturing/assembly jobs that were unionized. If a kid knew someone already there (easy back in the day),. they could get a job there after high school, and withn a few years be making darned good wages, with vacations, insurance, pension benefits..It WAS a "blue collared" life, but in some towns that's the norm...and plenty to have a decent middle class life..

NOT ANY MORE...

Military ads are designed to help" the young ones call attention to the stuff they could" have through the military...stuff they'll NEVER have if they don;t sign up. Of course the military downplays the part about where you might DIE:(

[wli]

54. I'd let them party all they want

Better they waste my money than get their arms and legs blown off.

[Tsiyu]

62. I'd pick the welfare, but neither choice is ideal

Funny this was mentioned, as two more of mine have struck out on their own, left the nest, and I have been worried about them - until I learned last night that they both have jobs at a pretty decent place.

We have mutual friends, so I have been keeping tabs in stealth mode, but I got kind of pissed when one friend suggested the military as an option. Not today. Not with ** in office. Been there, done that.

I understand that this moment in time is a difficult one for young people. There is so much daily uncertainty, the job market sucks, but you can't party all your money away; you still have to plan for a future.

These guys know they always have a place to live; but it's time for them to get out on their own. And they are resourceful and already have jobs paying more than their former jobs. I give them credit for striking out and trying to make it with other friends. I refuse to give in to the notion that younger people can't make the right choices.

And they both know I'd smuggle them to Canada before I'd let them make the enlistment choice....

[IdaBriggs]

65. Attending a funeral for an 18 year old tomorrow.

Unemployed would be preferable. (Disclaimer: Death not related to war, except in the "think Afghanistan" sense.)

[The Flaming Red Head]

67. What if they're doing it to rebel against liberal parents and grandparents

18 is legal age. Mine still isn't in, but his friends are and he's chomping at the bit to join and there's nothing I can do but be supportive of his choice. You know he thinks that his Mom is dumb and his Dad died years ago and he's looking for some sort of male support network and the military is his way of proving his manhood.

No one is kicking him out and he does have other options. I don't get it, but maybe that's the whole point.

[Tsiyu]

71. That's partly what led my oldest to the military lifestyle

Their dad was dead; they needed male reinforcement. I was never a big "military" type, so I saw their teenage obsession with the military as sort of a rebellion against my liberal ways at the time. One stayed with it but is now out; the other was diehard against his bro going to Iraq.

You can't tell them what to do at 18; all you can do is voice your opinion and hope for the best.