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US Casualties in Kosovo- HOW TO FIND!?

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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:11 AM
Original message
US Casualties in Kosovo- HOW TO FIND!?
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 10:11 AM by seeker4ever
Can someone show/tell me how to find this information on the internet? I thought it would be easy but "American casualties in Kosovo" yeilds crap as does "American casualties AND Kosovo"! Perhaps I'm being too vague... NOT! WTF?
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I dont think there were any combat deaths
sublime message though
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. you won't find any
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's the beauty part, seeker4ever.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 10:15 AM by Richardo
Try THAT bit of info on your local wingnut. :)
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I want to be able to show proof.
How can I do this?
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. you cant prove a negative
someone has to prove the opposite

as in; name one US military casuality from the Kosovo conflict
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. But I was hoping for...
A credible document or listing on a government or other reputable site.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. LOL, the burden of proof is on him. Tell him he's a flipping idiot if he
thinks one single US soldier was wounded or killed in Kosovo.

Make him prove it. You know the truth, he's a moron.
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. Can anyone debunk this Freeper screed?
KOSOVO: THE WAR DEMOCRATS LOVED
DON FEDER.COM ^ | OCTOBER 26, 2004 | DON FEDER

Posted on 10/26/2004 7:42:48 PM PDT by CHARLITE

KOSOVO: THE WAR DEMOCRATS LOVED By Don Feder

The Democrats have been characterized as a party of peace marchers and flag-burners -- a Neville Chamberlain cadre chattering away on cable TV, knee-jerk internationalists who’ve mistaken the United Nations for the United States Marines.

I must protest this calumny.

Under the right circumstances, the Democrats can be Sgt. York and Audie Murphy times Rambo. There was a little war of which Democrats are exceedingly fond – so much so that they’re still bragging about it five years later.

It’s a conflict that didn’t involve allegations of weapons of mass destruction. The nation we subjugated wasn’t a sponsor of international terrorism. (This time, we fought for the terrorists.)

It wasn’t remotely related to national security. And the justification for our intervention turned out to be a complete fabrication.

For 78 days in 1999, we bombed Christian Yugoslavia (our ally in two World Wars) to aid Moslem separatists who were tight with Osama bin Laden. Ever since, NATO has occupied its sovereign territory – with disastrous results.

Appearing on CNN’s “Late Edition” in August, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton offered her husband’s 1999 adventure, over the ancient province of Kosovo, as evidence that Democrats are better at fighting wars than Republicans. (I would have thought Korea and Vietnam proved that conclusively.)

We smashed the Serb war-machine, and “we didn’t lose a single American military person,” Hillary boasted of the conflict her draft-dodger hubby dragged us into. She neglected to mention that it was a war we fought from 30,000 feet.

The party of McGovern and Dean is so proud of this notable feat of arms, that it invited Hashim Thaci, chieftain of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and Clinton’s erstwhile ally, to attend the Democratic National Convention. (You’d think the Party in a Perpetual Fog would be at least a little curious about how Thaci got the nickname “Snake.” Hint: It’s not because he’s a patron of the arts.)

On his return to Kosovo, Snake Thaci – head of a terrorist gang that finances its operations through drug-running and prostitution – proclaimed, “It was confirmed once again that a Democratic administration would recognize and respect the will of the people of Kosovo for self-determination.”

Self-determination is code for independence from Yugoslavia – the creation of another Republic of Jihad (Balkanistan) on the periphery of Europe.

The Clinton gang that ran the war – including Richard Holbrooke and Wesley Clark (then Supreme Commander of NATO forces) -- are slated for key posts in a Kerry administration. Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs under Clinton, Holbrooke (who once called the Serbs “murderous assholes”) could be Kerry’s Secretary of State.

The War Hero and his running-mate both voted for the Senate resolution authorizing the use of force in Kosovo. A war resolution died in the Republican House.

What, we went to war without congressional authorization! We also did it without the permission of the United Nations. (Whatever happened to multilateralism?) Still, the French and Germans were on board – always a bad sign.

In a July 23, 2004 letter to Albanian-Americans, Kerry charged the Bush administration was “turning its back on the region” Whenever Bush doesn’t coddle terrorists (the PLO, the KLA) Kerry accuses him of abandoning whole regions.

In said letter, Kerry declared, “The people of Kosovo must be able to determine their own future, including how they want to be governed.” Since “the people of Kosovo” now are overwhelmingly Moslem, thanks in part to Clinton, Kerry is committing himself to Kosovo’s independence.

He wants to finish the job our last Democratic president started in 1999.

Kosovo is the ancient heartland of Serbian Orthodoxy. Until the 1970s, its population was predominately Serb.

Due to illegal immigration from Albania, Moslems became a majority and began agitating for autonomy. Then they started committing atrocities against their Serb neighbors – like beating elderly nuns, raping young girls and attacking monasteries. Then the KLA – which the U.S. State Department listed as a terrorist group as late as 1998 – started assassinating Yugoslav police and government officials.

Slobodan Milosevic, an ex-communist apparatchik who was President of Yugoslavia at the time, overreacted. (It is the Balkans, after all, a region second only to the Middle East for ethnic/religious harmony.)

Casting about for a way to take the nation’s attention off oral sex and impeachment, Bubba determined that we must intervene to save the saintly Albanians from the savage Serbs.

Ethnic cleansing was afoot, President Perjury gravely intoned. Exactly how this was different from the exchange of populations that took place throughout Europe in the aftermath of World War II (think of Poland and Germany, think of India and Pakistan) was never quite explained.

Worse, there were reports of killing fields and mass graves. Milosevic was cast as an architect of genocide – the Heinrich Himmler of the Balkans,

At the Rambouillet conference, the Yugoslav president was presented with an ultimatum: allow a peace-keeping force into Kosovo (as a prelude to detaching the province from Yugoslavia) and permit NATO forces to occupy the entire country, if they choose.

The Serbs refused and the bombing commenced. We killed over 3,000 – mostly civilians, mostly with cluster-bombs -- before Milosevic finally yielded to vastly superior force.

After the Yugoslav Federal Army was driven from Kosovo, forensic experts scoured the countryside, and came up empty-handed.

A December 31, 1999, article in the Wall Street Journal (coincidentally, by Daniel Pearl) reported that allegations of “indiscriminate mass murder, rape camps, crematoriums, mutilation of the dead – haven’t been borne out in the six months since NATO troops entered Kosovo. Ethnic-Albanian militants, humanitarian organizations, NATO and the news media fed off each other to give genocide rumors credibility. Now, a different picture is emerging.”

Following these revelations, there were no cries of “Where are the MGs?” (mass graves). Republicans didn’t begin every speech by accusing Clinton of lying to the nation in his rush to justify an unnecessary war (though they could have).

Michael Moore did not make a documentary on how a Democratic president engineered a conflict to advance his personal agenda. (“Fahrenheit 1999”?) No one in the media asked about Clinton’s exit strategy (5 years later, U.S. forces are still stationed in Kosovo) or demanded to know how he intended to “win the peace.”

Whether or not there was ethnic cleansing before the war, there certainly was afterward.

Albanians, who were handed a victory by Clinton and NATO, drove out 277,000 Serbs. (Hundreds were murdered and thousands brutalized.) As of March 2004, Moslem multiculturalists had destroyed 135 Orthodox churches, monasteries and shrines – all under the watchful eyes of KFOR , as NATO’s Keystone Cop peace-keeping force is called.

The rampage continues. The latest pogrom occurred in March, when (in a planned and coordinated campaign) 28 Serbs were murdered, more than 600 wounded and another 3,600 forced to flee. The Serbs left in Kosovo -- estimated at between 102,000 and 114,000 -- live in a state of siege. Should KFOR be withdrawn, they’d all be dead or exiled in a matter of days.

Yes, Kosovo truly was the Democrats’ finest hour – a prime example of just how tough the party of Jimmy Carter and Ramsey Clark can be, when they’re in a fighting mood.

On the other hand, their Kosovo allies are threatening to give scum-of-the-earth a bad name. Back in ’99, Senator Joe Lieberman, who’s rumored to know something about foreign policy, called the KLA “freedom fighters.” Well, you know what the moral relativists of the left say: “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”

As it transpires, the KLA is allied with other freedom fighters, -- whose SOP is car bombs and demolishing sky-scrappers. Bin Laden was active in the Balkans as early as 1994.

In a Washington Times story published within days of 9/11, defense expert Bill Gertz disclosed: “Islamic radicals, including supporters of bin Laden, have been supporting Albanian rebels fighting in the region (who then were trying to de-stabilize Montenegro), including members of the Kosovo Liberation Army. Intelligence officials have said there are reports that KLA members have been trained at bin Laden camps in Afghanistan.” During the initial fighting there, U.S. units scooped up Kosovar Albanians who were serving with the Taliban’s foreign legion.

Another investigative article (“Al Qaeda’s Balkan Links,” The Wall Street Journal, November 1, 2002) noted, “By feeding off the region’s impoverished republics and taking root in the unsettled aftermath of the Bosnia and Kosovo conflicts, al Qaeda, along with Iranian Revolutionary Guard-sponsored terrorists, have burrowed their way into Europe’s backyard.”

Also, in the wake of the Democrats’ merry little war, Kosovo became the prime route, after Turkey, for the importation of heroin from Southeast Asia to Europe – just one more way our friends the freedom fighters thanked us for giving them a country.

The foregoing all is courtesy of Bill Clinton, John Kerry and the other Democrats who know what the US military is for – killing Christians to aid Moslem terrorists.

Whatever the shortcomings of President Bush’s plans for Iraq, at least he’s trying to bring democracy to a nation that’s never known it before. Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney ousted a brutal dictator, who sponsored international terrorism and (at the very least) was actively acquiring WMD-technology.

In Kosovo, we put the terrorists in power. Kerry helped. He voted for it. He defends it. (Thaci was his honored guest in Boston.) Now he’s pushing independence for the terrorists. In terms of betraying the West, this is easily the best work he’s done since his contribution to undermining the U.S. war effort in Vietnam in 1971
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Why? It's just GOPnazi propoganda. Anyone who believes that nonsense
is a flipping idiot.
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I guess I'm going about this all wrong...
I was thinking that kind of a response would be ineffectual in a debate. But I'll just say that and be done with it.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. exactly. You can't have a rational discussion with a moron who thinks that
Saddam flew planes into the WTC.

That IS the sentence I use when hashing it with the RW idiot morons, especially in chat.

I tried to be nice for years, now I meet their lies with ridicule and sarcasm.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Some of that is true, some isn't --
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 10:45 AM by Goldmund
What is definitely true is that KLA are a terrorist-affiliated organization. This isn't to defend actions of the Serbs -- to the contrary -- but as it usually is the case in civil wars, the other side was no better.

The main point is that the precise reason that there isn't a "Balkanistan" there is because there are NATO troops there, and Kosovo and the Muslim part of Bosnia are under NATO jurisdiction. NATO holds the situation in its hands -- no state will emerge there without being a NATO puppet. I've always thought that the main rationale for the military action there was precisely to gain geopolitical footing to prevent the creation of a Muslim state in Europe, which would be an ally of the Middle Eastern Islamic countries in any future conflict between the West and the Middle East.

Most importantly, I see no reason that we as liberals, or even as Democrats, have to automatically defend every action that Democratic presidents have undertaken. I opposed NATO bombing then and I oppose it still -- and whenever a Freeper brings this up in discussions about BushCo's conquest of Iraq, I say "yeah, you're right, that was shyte -- though it is worth noting that the loss of life and the destabilization of the global balance was child's play then compared to what it is now. Now let's get back to the topic of Iraq."
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radar Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. A few links...
JOINT STATEMENT ON THE KOSOVO AFTER ACTION REVIEW
IMMEDIATE RELEASE October 14, 1999

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/1999/b10141999_bt478-99.html

"...We accomplished this by prosecuting the most precise and lowest-collateral-damage air campaign in history-with no U.S. or allied combat casualties in 78 days of around-the-clock operations and over 38,000 combat sorties."

Air Chief's Kosovo Lesson: Go for Snake's Head First
By Linda D. Kozaryn American Forces Press Service

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct1999/n10261999_9910264.html

"All three senior leaders' opening remarks praised the professionalism of the U.S. and allied troops who conducted the 78-day operation. More than 900 aircraft, two-thirds American, flew more than 14,000 strike and 24,000 support sorties. The United States suffered the only NATO air losses, an F-117A Nighthawk and an F-16 Fighting Falcon, with both pilots rescued safely. NATO lost no service members to hostile action."

Lessons Learned from Kosovo
http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/lessons/
"The paramount lesson learned from Operation Allied Force is that the well-being of our people must remain our first priority."

Lessons Learned from Operation Allied Force - Kosovo
http://beqiraj.com/kosova/de/allied_force/lektionen/index.asp
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. Different Missions...Different Times
The U.S. mission in Kosovo was part of a NATO-led operation...it wasn't unilateral. The U.S. serves as part of a multi-national U.N. peacekeeping force that is viewed as a cilvilian rather than military operation. I met someone who served in that force and he said there was little U.S. involvement in that mission and any injuries (and there have been a few...mostly from dismantling unexploded munitions and landmines) are not reported to or kept by the Pentagon. Maybe NATO has its own statistics...as they also would for the Bosnian force...which also is operating (supposedly looking for Serbian war criminals).

I've enjoyed bashing wingnuts with the Kosovo and Bosnian actions...they weren't wars...we didn't send in ground forces and the resistance in both Congress and the military would have made any boots on the ground very, very difficult for Clinton. He couldn't have gotten away with the crap this regime has done...and we all know there's no way he or any rational leader would have gotten into a war without some exit strategy.
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Very helpful!
Thanks- I'm a big Steve Martin fan too!
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks to all who have taken the time and made the effort...
to help educate me so I can more effectively understand and better argue on the issues.
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