Did It Ever Occur To You That The Reason For the Abu Prison Abuse

[Solomon]

the rapes and the torture, the making of the pictures of them, etc., are for the express purpose of making sure there will be continual insurgency?

I mean, they don't want us americans to see it, but they sure as hell meant for the Iraqis to see these things.

We sit here and stew about why those damned Iraqis keep blowing things up, while over there, they are forced to do it by the indignities being heaped upon them.

Can you imagine as an american how you would feel if, in addition to your country being invaded, they rubbed your nose in rape and torture?

What would you do with your life?

Make no mistake about it. There are people making fortunes over the "war" in Iraq.

[Skidmore]

1. Which is why the American people will need to demand that

we leave--declare victory and leave. I don't care if they have to have their victory statement. We need to get out of there, and the sooner the better. Then return to home and cage the neocons.

[Maraya1969]

2. With Bush's polls dropping and more people opposing the war

I find it hard to believe that they want to continue this war. I think that behind the scenes the strategists wanted the war to end with less American and Iraqi civilian casualties.

[EST]

5. Sorry, wrongo!

You forget that we are dealing with organized crime, here, not one of us bleeding heart liberals who want the best for everybody. They are criminals, who get other idiots to kill and steal for them.

[Karenina]

6. Bingo.

They are criminals deeply involved in sexual abuse, imprisonment and torture. Have been for a l-o-n-g time.

[Kipling]

3. I disagree.

When there's a war, and otherwise normal people join the slaughter, the enemy have to be dehumanised and the troops whipped into hatred. Once that happens, torture is all but inevitable.
War means torture and it always will.

[awoke_in_2003]

4. This should have occurred

to anyone who has read 1984. The government can gain total control over the people because it is distracting them with never ending war.

[Swamp Rat]

7. Welcome to DU!

Welcome to "reality."

[peacebird]

8. welcome to DU awoke_in_2003!

frightening how 1984 seems to be their playbook, eh?

will the sheeple ever awaken?

[awoke_in_2003]

12. Thanks for the welcome...

been here since shortly after the invasion, only registered a short time ago. There are a lot of striking similarities between that book and this administration. The use of hate to fire up patriotism. The glorification of abstinence (wouldn't want people to waste energy on sex when it can be used by the state). The idea that the party creates reality. The way the party can change its message and no one notices, just go ignorantly along. Oh, and of course, none of the ruling class have, to quote Cindy, "skins in the game".

[hootinholler]

23. 1984 isn't thier playbook...

It is the description of a possible result of implementing thier playbook, which was written in its original form by Maciavelli.

-Hoot

[Jose Diablo]

9. Could it be that one target of the Iraq war

is OUR military.

I notice that, day by day, the policies of this administration dismantle and weaken our military's ability to protect our country. Being lied to about the real reasons for the war. Veterans benefits are cut. Soldiers sent into battle without proper equipment like armor shielding for Humvee and flack jackets. All these things weaken moral and thus weaken the military.

Reports of torture will place our soldier in the position of being tortured themselves if they captured. Thats the reason for the Geneva Convention, to insure that if a war is fought, there will be certain things that are never allowed, because they violate laws that are 'universal' among humanity. The practicing of torture weakens our soldiers moral as they realize what will happen to them if they are captured.

Bu$h and his policies, violate these basic principles and take conflict into a new low. The results of this can only weaken our country's ability to recruit volunteers. It weakens the military.

Bu$h's answer to lower recruitment? Recruit foreign nationals to fight our wars and provide security, create a mercenary army.

It is a mercenary corporate army they want and to destroy the civilian military at the same time.

Make no mistake, Bu$h IS a traitor. He knows exactly what he is doing.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. It's all part of the Neocon Plan

to destabilize the Middle East and then to destabilize the rest of the world. These Neocon are bunch of real sick mother fuckers

[Booster]

29. I agree. I gnaws on me that these pictures exist. Who the Hell

took the pictures and what was their motive? I believe they were ordered to take the pictures so the insurgents would become even more outraged, and if that's not the case, the person(s) who took these pictures is/are pretty much a f__cked up mind. I don't know if this sort of thing took place in past wars, but those pictures were taken for a specific reason, not just somebody getting their jollies.

[Sapphire Blue]

38. Let's not forget the private US security 'contractors' already there...

... getting paid 10 times what the troops get paid, responsible for much of the horror in Iraq (at the behest of this rogue Administration)... meanwhile the lowly troops, w/a token general, are the only ones to face any consequences.

[H2O Man]

11. You can tell a lot

about a tree by examining its fruit.

[Jose Diablo]

13. Exactly so Waterman

As an example, a friend and myself disageed on the type of tree I had in my back yard. He said it was a Finnish Maple or some such nonsense. I said it was an Oak and as proof I picked-up and acorn that had fallen from the tree. The acorn proved without a doubt, the tree was an Oak.

If we ever doubt the type of person we are dealing with, just research the 'fruit' of their works, this always shows the God they follow. People can say many things about themselves, but they can never lie about who their God is. It's right out in the open for all to see, if they want to see.

[H2O Man]

14. Right.

The rape/torture photos tell the world (including those of us in the USA) a heck of a lot more about this administration that a clip of the president saying he is a Christian who values peace and democracy.

[Karenina]

15. Torture is U.S. policy.

[H2O Man]

18. Yes, it is.

And that includes, to an extent that the mainstream society is not aware of, in the institutions within the USA.

[Solly Mack]

22. Most definitely

And Bush Inc will fight to contain the information because it does point to the systemic use of torture and abuse by America - and not just in Iraq and Afghanistan - or GTMO...but in our prisons.

and I dare say not just our prisons...the mentality is there, walking amongst us - waiting.

[Karenina]

25. Yes, it does.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. I'd be willing to bet you, that KKKarl Rove had more to do with it

than anybody!

The White House needed INFORMATION FAST!

Bush's poll numbers were falling because.
1. at that time they hadn't captured Saddam or his sons or other high ranking Iraqis
2. they couldn't find any WMDs like they claimed were in Iraq.
3. the people in Iraq were fighting back, unlike the rose petals the neocons had promised us, the Iraqis were throwing RPG rounds and road side bombs.

All of this was weighing heavily on KKKarl's plans to get his War pResident reselected in 2004! The pressure was on politically and KKKarl needed some quick fixes for the political hits Bush was taking over the neocons ineptitude in Iraq! So the call went out to do whatever had to be done to get the POWs to talk! The DOD put the best man on the Job, to get tough with the Iraqi POWs, General Miller, straight from Gitmo...

The White House's MOTIVE WAS TOTALLY POLITICAL, like almost everything bushco did before November of 2004!

[opihimoimoi]

19. In ADDITION, them Pub assholes want a destabilized region to get the Spice

Whatever it takes to get the last drops of OIL.

Ever Notice we have been doing many things to stir the hornets nest?

The Neo Cons WANT a Holy War...the Ultimate Reason for a takeover/control grab....

The Abu Prison thing seems a set up. This turns out to be a huge recruitment tool for AQ. FOX News just reported BushCo will not release more photos/videos as demanded by law saying it will escalate the AQ efforts....

But they know it will be released, its the law. and the effects will result in more coffins coming home. What they want is another attack so we can get IRAN who has more oil than IRAQ. Then we will invent some shit to invade Saudi...


The whole thing smells of a land grab...aggression its called.

In the Bible, God gave instructions and Hebrew peeps went forth to slay the HEATHENS, and grab their Land, their Towns/Cities, their animals/orchards, their virgins.....

Come Hubert, its time for a cold beer....

[Hubert Flottz]

27. All the wheels fell off the neocon miscarriage in Iraq and all the...

king's men can't get that miscarriage rolling again! The Iraq's are dragging Bush's balls through the hot desert sand on this one! The Jawbones of an asshole got us into this quackmire and the promised land is nowhere in sight! People who act like terrorists are just as bad as the real deal and that's what the Bush Gangsters did at Abu Ghraib...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse

The fools who did these things are every bit as fucked up in their heads as Osama or Josef Mengele!

http://www.crimelibrary.com/mengele/main.htm

They do "Whatever It Takes" just like the terrorists do! Their morals are totally oral! The neocan rat pack don't fool anyone but the fools and themselves!

Jesus is coming, and BOY is he pissed off!

They don't cook the books Enron style in Heaven, I don't think! Gawd won't be shredding the truth about Bushco...

"When not a sparrow falls to the ground without your Father, and the very hairs of your head are all numbered"

I think that POWs and the lies are kept track of too, like the sparrow!

[opihimoimoi]

31. Bush is ruled by OIL Peeps, Military INDUSTRIALISTS, and Fundies...

Oil at $69.00 per 42 gal barrel

Holy war in place

Iran on the radar with a nuke excuse....

Saudi 9/11 connections ignored

Osama's family flown out of USA after 9/11

Prison Scandle seems to bizzarre to be NOT a set up

and now, the wheels have come off the Miscarriage of BushCo...

A fine post Hubert...you are too GOOD.

Come, we go enjoy a walk on a sandy beach

[Hubert Flottz]

37. There's one Judas in every generation, but ours is the exception.

Judas C. Powell is simply one of the many such wormy characters our generation has now to deal with. America is plum et up with JudASSES who would sell their own mothers for 30 pieces of silver, or a quick piece of the harlot's strange puckering poon-tang! Turncoats and Evil traitors, the like of which in numbers this nation, nor this planet has NEVER before witnessed! A Judas behind Every BUSH and a BUSH behind Every Judas! Every race has more than it's own share of Judasses! Every religion has become infested with Judasses! So many Judasses sucking the life blood out of so few, are like an almighty Cosmic Hum-Vee sucking on a $30.00 gallon of high octane gasoline with super no-Nox. Judas is pumping Ethyl for all it's worth, as the country turns into a pillow of Bushit before our very eyes! What will we tell the poor little children? What will the little poor children tell us?

The Holy I've got mine club rules the planet with atom bombs and never ending terra lerts! God is reduced from being our co-pilot, to a backseat driver and Jesus a mere political prop! The Judasses have won after all these centuries! The sheep are ALL lining up behind the pet Judas goat! Time to Meat the made and the makers of the made. An offer none has the balls nor the bucks to refuse!

WHAT ever happened to "Happy Motoring", a clean windshield, a quart low and the America Dream? Why are we being "stocked" and mauled by that freakin' tiger in our tanks?

Come, the sandy beach will soon be turned to radioactive glass and Jesus will weep real salty tears once again! The Bushit deepens as I type and our holy water-wings and cosmic hip-waders are nearly useless now! For shame and for shame!

This is not a drill, repeat not a drill! HOLY SHEI'ITE...we need a vector ASAP!

[opihimoimoi]

39. The Wall is being filled with more Peeps all pissed off at the Judases

Sharpen your Spears and load the Trebs, gimme some vectors. Arrange food and water for the new Crews, they gonna be here a long time...

Come, we go swimming in Clean Water....

[Hubert Flottz]

41. Holy Judas In Jack Boots...I thank I see them coming rite now!

The FReeper hordes are even attacking each other... Eating their young and their young eating them back! We need lots and lots of oil and B-I-G pots to boil it in! Trebs all locked and loaded with blivits of superheated thin thin thin Bushit, canister and grape-shot!!!

All this fear of being a-feard, is a-makin' me hungry!

What's cookin???? :beer: Smells Just Like A fatted donkey, or the Hot Ham Hocks Of Hell!!!! :beer: Hell...I think it's me!!!! :nuke:

Send LOTS of clean WET water ASAP and Fire 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and 9 for effect! That is all...

[opihimoimoi]

43. The Hordes are a coming...they got tanks and water baloons

OMG.....i got hit......

help. they got me.......

[Hubert Flottz]

47. The Freeper Whores..err..I mean Hordes have bought up every

septic "Tank" in the world and are headed this way along with the 101st keyboard brigade. They are even driving souped up porta-potties and kiddie cars with gumbo mudder tires, mud flaps and rifle racks. Don't fire the trebs until you see the whites of their evil bloodshot eyeballs, then let en habit!

We can kick their asses back to the...err...wait a minute...they's already livin' in the stone age! How can they win when, "THEY DON'T CARE"? That faint light you see, might be at the end of the tunnel, but who can tell? That Is All>>>>>>.......

[EST]

28. 'Tain't the oil, and not a land grab--

Well, not per se. Those are just tools. As trite as it seems, and as lacking in originality, the various mafia movies are a fitting vehicle for parallels. The idea of "made" men, weak individuals who've sold their souls and proved by their atrocities that they are owned - witness Colin Powell, the nearest thing to an actual diplomat the stranglers had, is totally valid. He's a man who is beset by his own tiny ogres, stemming from his cowardice and complicity in other acts of depravity in VietNam. He, no doubt, salivated over the idea of becoming the first president of color, but did not have the wherewithal and the lifetime of experience with cover ups to withstand the gimlet eyes, prying into his background. He knew the only way to survive the coming season is to sneak out, hoping to remain below the radar, and planning on dying before the investigation gets really rough.
The rest of us, unable to stomach the horror of active involvement, have to be kept cold and hungry, willing to eat shit in order to try to protect our families.
t
That's the way it works in the bfee. The only solution is going to include some pretty terrible privation, and the willingness to go way beyond simple resistance--the future is ominous.

[Hubert Flottz]

40. "future is ominous"

Truer words were never spoken. Mankind has come so far, to find that it has been going round in a circle all along, like a lost child in a blinding blizzard. I'm afraid we find ourselves right back to the place where we once started so long ago, the law of the fang and claw.

[emanymton]

17. Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc...

I agree; just because I'm paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get me. But this post is off.

shrub Junta are not capable of making things work, they are very good at taking advantage of situations when they occur. The Iraq prisoner abuse is a natural logical next step when unchecked power goes after an enemy.

I do not agree, "the rapes and the torture, the making of the pictures of them, etc., are for the express purpose of making sure there will be continual insurgency?" This arguement is an example of the fallacy "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc." It involves concluding that A causes or caused B because A occurs before B and there is not sufficient evidence to actually warrant such a claim.



Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[90-percent]

20. looking at the fruits

The key is whether these guys are machavellian geniuses or they don't have a fucking clue what they're doing.

They're excellent at getting horrible class warfare legislation passed, getting a free pass for every scandal that would have taken down a dem, but I think the outcome of Iraq as of today was beyond the grasp of their puny imaginations.

I think they envisioned a nice tidy Iraq War ala Gulf War 1 and all their lies used to get there would be forgiven once the cheap oil started flowing. No admin neocon even imagined the situation would ever turn into what it is today. Thus they have to use human denial to continue their efforts, or even to cope with the current reality vs their own reality they are making up as they go along.

It's pretty consistant with GWB wrecking every organization he was ever given to run.

-85%

[emanymton]

21. The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight. I Agree With You.

Bush Lied. People Dies. Media Cheered.

[leesa]

30. Disagree. They are very capable of making things work exactly as they

want then to work. It's just that you can't believe they would have the necessary audacity and evil intent that they do.

[emanymton]

33. shrub Junta Does Not Have The Subtly.

They don't have the patience to act intelligently. They mistake action with talent. Their whole war in Iraq shows how inept they are.


Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[kiki]

24. I seem to be repeating myself...

...but then, this answer covers a lot of issues:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4329202&mesg_id=4337259

[lonestarnot]

26. And then there was the awakening....

[ridgerunner]

32. I honestly believe that the Stanford Prison Experiments

explain a whole lot about this situation.

http://www.prisonexp.org/

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. I could believe it. Destruction = construction is the junta's motto

[blm]

35. Both Bush and Bin Laden families PROFIT from the Holy Wars they created.

It took them a few decades to put all the pieces in place. But, now their war will be in place for decades to come...making BILLIONS of dollars for all those involved....except those who do the actual fighting and dying.

[Karenina]

42. Quite royally!

[Cleita]

36. Considering how divisive the "uniter" has been since he

took office, it would fit into something they would dream up. Keeping Americans hating Arabs keeps their war support up there.

[opihimoimoi]

44. It all leads to grabbing whatever oil remains in da ground for their Purps

Its an Oil grab....

1. control of the spice/spigot

2. Famine will likely follow in Nations too poor to buy hjigh priced oil. no fuel, no tractors to plant water harvest....no food, not enough food, more deaths due to malnourishment. FAMINE on large scale...

Bush will have no troubles sleeping...."Watch my Drive"

[Mr Rabble]

45. Yes. And, I believe you are correct.

There is no way it could be anything but deliberate.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Nothing would surprise me now days