Is it true that relieving a 4-Star General from command requires POTUS...

[DeepModem Mom]

personal approval? We were told this by persons connected with military personnel. Can anyone confirm this?

(Please see this NYT story about General Byrne, "NYT: General Disobeyed Orders to End Affair, Officials Say"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1698129

and other threads in GD, and listed on the Greatest Page, if you need background on this strange and puzzling story.)


On edit: The people who were speaking, who are not at a high level, but have direct knowledge of the General on-the-job, are upset. They have great respect and admiration for him.

[madeline_con]

1. " Army Training and Doctrine Command "

Just a crazythought, but could the reason behind all this have something to do with the yet unreleased photos?

I'm not sure what Army Training and Doctrine Command entails.

[DeepModem Mom]

3. These people said the General was in charge of Army training. nt

[madeline_con]

5. Yes, but what's "Doctrine Command"???

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. it develiops things such as proper formations when facing

an enemy.. heck TRADOC manuals can be fascinating all on their own

[madeline_con]

11. Oh, alright....

That shows how much I know about the military. :blush:

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You've seen the FM (field manual) on survival at Barnes

and Noble? That is a TRADOC publication.

Some are classified, but you can get old editions at any surplus store

[madeline_con]

14. I have it....

I found out I have tropical plants in my yard that are edible. But I'm not going to tear them up unless food gets scarce. :eyes:

[DeepModem Mom]

9. Same here -- anybody else know?

:shrug:

[Burried News]

2. Ike removed Patton - twice I believe.

This 4 star was not a theater commander - not sure if that is a factor or not.
My guess is Schoonmaker or Rummy wanted him gone and possibly wanted to use him to make a point about sexual harassment and fraternization issues. Consider recent Air Force Academy scandals for example.

[Darkhawk32]

4. I thought Patton was only a 3-star when he was relieved those times... n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Patton was not a four star when he was removed, he was a two

star during the NA campaigh and a three star after Sicily

[Burried News]

20. I think you and the previous poster are correct. Besides Ike was

a five star then and there is no equivalent today.

[merh]

15. You mean allowing the rape of children in Iraq prisons is not

a type of sexual harassment that justifies removal of a leader from the military?

Just wondering!

If it is a "sex" thing, Rummey approved of what happened at the prisons, so he should be gone!

[FreedomAngel82]

18. I thought all of that

went up to the top? Didn't a Clinton advisor say that everything with Gitmo and Abu Grhaib go to the top?

[merh]

19. Exactly my point. n/t

[Burried News]

21. Well we don't want to admit that any abuse was ordered from

above - it was just the actions of some deviant troops.:sarcasm:

You are right the contradictions are mind numbing - what an infernal shameful miserable mess.

[Sgent]

6. Not sure

My guess would be that he could probably be temporarily removed from his assignment by the Chief of the Army, but confirmation would have to come from SECDEF or POTUS.

Remember, any general 3 stars or above is appointed by presidential nomination and congressional confirmation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. this means they relieved a popular officer

hmmm... this is getting curiouser and curioser

[Peregrine]

13. The Army Chief of Staff can remove anybody in the Army

TRADOC is a major command that oversees all of the Army schools. The Army has sever major commands: INSCOM (intelligence units), FORCOM (combat units). All of the commanders of the major commands fall of the Army Chief of Staff.

[jmowreader]

16. There are several kinds of major commands

You have Theatre and Area Commands, like US Army Europe, 8th US Army, and Forces Command. This is where your combat power resides. All these commands are led by Generals. These commands run everything in that area, but they've got no influence outside that area. For instance, 8th Imperial Army is responsible for everything in Korea. (And they will remind you of that. Repeatedly.) Unfortunately for the General that runs it, his sphere of influence ends at the water's edge.

Next, you have Functional Area Commands, like Intelligence and Security Command, Medical Command and Criminal Investigative Command. These are usually led by Major Generals. A Functional Area Command does one particular thing like spy on the enemy or provide healthcare, but it's spread out worldwide.

Then you have your Systems and Logistics Commands, like Tank and Automotive Command and Materiel Command. They specialize in systems. Tank and Automotive Command is responsible for anything that moves over the ground. They buy car parts. Truck parts. Tires. They develop specifications for new vehicles. They test the candidate vehicles when they come back from the designer. It is a very important command--BUT! They've got no troops to speak of. They fight no wars. They are as purely administrative as something in the Army can be, and most of the people who work there aren't in the Army.

Now let's talk Training and Doctrine Command. This is the weirdest command in the whole army. It's a functional area command in that it's responsible for all the schools. But it envelops the army. From the day you raise your hand to the day you turn in your short-time calendar, TRADOC will affect your life in some way. They write the Physical Training test standards. They write the Common Task Training manual. They set the standards for your job. This is why the TRADOC commander is a General and not a Major General.

[DeepModem Mom]

17. Interesting, jmowreader. This command "envelops the army." nt

[Burried News]

22. There has been some conversation of how the Field Manual

for the handling of prisoners (which as I understand it is in agreement with the Geneva Convention) forbids what is going on in Abu Ghraib, Bagram and other prisons under Army control. This manual is now an embarassment to the leadership that allowed the abuse of prisoners and theoretically could be evidence for those worried about the Hague.

Also in the past year a Major General was demoted to Colonel for sexual harassment but there were rumors at the time that he was a voice objecting to prisoner abuse and the charges were payback for his failure to tow the line on the abuse issue.

I don't know what to make of the story yet but it is worth pursuing.

PS Nice Post. Appreciate it.