"The Stakes Are Too High To Stop Fighting Now" (Sibel Edmonds Interview)

[cascadiance]

Folks, you MUST read this interview Christopher Deliso just had with Sibel Edmonds, which just showed up on www.antiwar.com in the last hour!

Sibel is passing a LOT of new hints on what it is her case is about, including the following:

1) She notes that the Supreme Court will decide whether or not to hear her case by mid-October. She says she's more negative on her chances than her lawyers are. But through the article, she notes that by raising consciousness amongst the people who contact their congressmen, this could be helped in her favor. That's YOU folks!
2) She notes only one alternative at this point that could be used if Supreme Court doesn't hear her case. Lobbying for getting an independent prosecutor and an open hearing on these issues.
3) She says that the media should focus on the states secret act aspect of the case, not just "protecting whistleblowers", and notes that if there was already another strategy besides the "states secret" act they could have used to stop her testimony if an investigation into the issues she raised had already been launched. Because they used the "States Secret" act has been used, she says this implies no such investigation has been or is going on and is basically saying that nothing's being done.
4) She wasn't aware that Vanity Affair was going to focus on "opening up" the Dennis Hastert situation with the Armenian resolution, instead of other more important parts of what she knows. And she says that because the article focused on the Armenian resolution, that it gave the appearance she was a part of the Armenian lobby, and not really just a "concerned citizen", as she's said she has been all along, and generating more hate from the Turkish community. She emphasized that the people that are implicated here are NOT the current Turkish administration.
5) A lot of reference to Israeli lobby and other influences are made here. I find this interesting, as it makes the earlier huge timeline of silence about Sibel Edmonds when googling her shortly after the Israeli spy was arrested last year that much more curious.
6) She now points HEAVILY to the Department of State where most of the nucleus of this problem exists. She's not identifying any individuals here, but points to many cases where this has been the governmental entity that's been blocking information flow, and has the control elements of this conspiracy.
7) She points to the black market nuclear parts article in the L.A. Times by Josh Meyer as being a very critical one to read to connect the dots more.
8) At one point a telling response from her states "And I think to a certain extent it's obvious that some of your neocons will be involved in these criminal activities. You don't need me to tell you that. But too often, they {the media] have looked in the wrong places."
9) She says that more than just Swiss banks should be looked at for money laundering and that others such as those in Dubai and Cyprus should be looked at too.

A LOT of good info today folks. This gives us a lot for us to start finding other information in this hunt for the truth.

From: http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=6934

----------------------

'The Stakes Are Too High for Us to Stop Fighting Now'
An interview with FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds
by Christopher Deliso

balkanalysis.com

In this brand new interview conducted last week, we find the indefatigable Sibel Edmonds as spirited as ever and determined to press on with her legal cases, in her attempt to alert the American people of high-level criminal behavior and corruption in and around the U.S. government.

The interview concentrates on her new appeal to the Supreme Court, reactions to the recent Vanity Fair article in which she was featured, some thoughts on the AIPAC-Larry Franklin investigation, more details on high-level global criminal activities – and on what kind of officials are involved in them.

...

State Department the Source of All Evil?

CD: I know you can't name names, but are there any government agencies in particular that you can single out as being more corrupt or more involved with the substance of your allegations?

SE: The Department of State.

CD: What, the most corrupt?

SE: The Department of State is easily the most corrupted of the major government agencies.

...



http://www.cafepress.com/sibel

[hiley]

1. Thank you for posting this..

very interesting!

[wli]

2. this stuff is getting more frightening on a daily basis n/t

[jsamuel]

3. couldn't she just come out and say it anyway and get thrown in jail?

not that I want it to happen, but it would be a nice last resort

[nashville_brook]

53. in the meantime, we've got good info from this interview and others like

it to start mapping out relationships and identify areas to apply pressure.

i love puzzles.

[kestrel91316]

84. It would be VERY patriotic of her to fall on her sword, be the sacrificial

lamb, and just TELL ALL. If she had the courage to go to jail for the truth, she would be the greatest heroine this country has ever known. But that has to be her decision alone.

[cascadiance]

85. I think she's smarter than that...

I think she probably has an "exit plan" like what you're describing, where there is some mechanism that if she gets cornered someplace with no-where else to go as a last resort (either through legal or illegal threats), there will be a doomsday release of all of the info she knows to the public then. In the mean time, she's going to not release it all at once, which would get her arrested immediately, and then take her out of the picture completely. She will instead start releasing information in a "gray area" style (actually much like Karl Rove would do), so that Bushco forces would be hard-pressed to explain arresting her now. She's also waiting to see if she will be heard by the Supreme Court first too. If that avenue goes away, then I suspect her strategies might start to get more radical.

That she's doing this at all shows immense courage from my point of view. She's probably already gone down a path that's too far for her to "stop" and lead a normal life again. She basically said as much in that antiwar interview. That she's not committing "hari kari" immediately the way some folks here ask her to do is not being "chicken", but it's intelligently slithering through the grass stealthily to still be able to strike. That's why the wingnuts are so afraid of her now.

[hiley]

4. Sibel interview here is the best one

I think so far..
Very good and absolutely fascinating.

[Fridays Child]

5. Wow! She provides a good map for anyone fearless...

...enough to go down those roads. Based on what she revealed, it would take a decent investigator no time, at all, to develop some excellent leads.

[shraby]

7. Find the "Sibel Edmonds Speaks Farsi" threads

in the archives and read them, you may be able to find some leads.

[robertpaulsen]

95. Or read the link here:

Sibel Edmonds translated Farsi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2238307

[lala_rawraw]

9. Like... Bolton, Hadley, and...

Ta Da... who would be:
a). in a position to benefit from arms deals?
b). in a position to move arms?
c). in a position to "out" agents monitoring those deals?

and finally, who has done this b4 in a little song and dance thing called, Iran Contra?

She need not name names... don't we all already know who is whom and what is what? The problem is that in terms of speculation and logic, there is a great deal visible. In terms of a news story, there is not enough "evidence" to point to anyone.

[Zhade]

13. Negroponte?

NT!

[punpirate]

19. Doubt it... more like...

... Zalmay Khalilzad. Hmmm?

[nashville_brook]

52. yeah yeah -- like she says:

SE: Yes. Watch the Department of State. Watch people who are involved with the countries I mentioned above. Watch their careers, where they were stationed, what jobs they held, what were their areas of expertise, where these interests overlap. Were they involved with weapons procurement ever? Would anything in their resumé indicate knowledge of and experience in not one, but several of these countries I have mentioned?
...snip
Look out for the organizations they're involved in. Look at where these memberships overlap. Two major lobby groups that have come out in one way or another have been the American-Turkish Council and AIPAC. They're not the only ones, but you can start with them. Look at their members, their leaders past and present. Look at where these names overlap with the qualities I mentioned above.

this is good info

[Imagevision]

61. Kick and recommend

[G_j]

6. (nominated) I was waiting for this interview

not disappointed, thanks!

[G_j]

8. I believe this is the LA Times article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-nuke5aug05,1,5067309.story?coll=la-headlines-world

August 5, 2005 latimes.com

Man Gets 3 Years for Sales Linked to Nuclear Arms
Federal judge sentences Asher Karni, a South African, for illegally transferring high-tech U.S. products to Indian and Pakistani firms.

By Josh Meyer, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — A federal judge sentenced black market trader Asher Karni to three years in prison Thursday, saying he wanted to warn others that the illegal sale of U.S. high-tech products could help foreign governments or terrorists obtain nuclear weapons.

After hearing Karni apologize for selling blacklisted U.S. electronic components to companies in Pakistan and India, U.S. District Judge Richard M. Urbina told the former Israeli army major that no amount of contrition could make up for the potential threat posed by his actions.

"I want you to know how serious I think your conduct was," Urbina told Karni, emphasizing that he was sentencing him to a prison term longer than that requested by his defense lawyers to send a message to the public.

Citing Karni's extensive cooperation in an ongoing nuclear trafficking investigation, lawyers for the South Africa-based businessman had sought a 19-month sentence. That would have freed Karni immediately because he has been in federal custody since his arrest Jan. 1, 2004, at Denver International Airport.

..more..

[lala_rawraw]

10. Two letters.... A ..... Q

[Zhade]

14. .....

KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:evilgrin:

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Finding these things on the open market doesn't seem to be so hard to do.

Someone I know that goes in and helps liquidate stock for the government and private corporations told me that he once found detonators on the inventory list. He told the people at the Energy Department and they ended up giving him a certificate of merit for the information. Apparently, it was a big mistake. They also met with him and in their private discussion, they TRASHED CLINTON. They blamed CLINTON for the mistake because it happened during the Clinton administration, but I always wondered about that deflection of blame. The guy was a die hard Republican and he seemed to be satisfied with the answer and spread it liberally.

That was back in the days when I thought our government was on the people's side.

[Peace Patriot]

28. She says, of this L.A. Times story, that the big honcho Zeki Bilmen, got

off scot-free, and implied that Bilmen and others like him (illicit nukes and drugs) are protected by "our" gov't (she fingers the State Dept.)

I've been wondering about a possible connection of the Plame affair to the death of the Brits' chief WMD expert David Kelly. Plame was outed by Novak 7/14/03. Kelly was found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances, four days later, on 7/18/03. His office and computers were searched. Then, on 7/22/03, Plame's front company, Brewster Jennings--center of a 20 year CIA non-proliferation project--was also outed, and all its projects disabled and covert agents put at great risk (also by Novak). My guess: The Plame outing and Kelly's death both had to do with a Bush Cartel plot to PLANT WMDs in Iraq for the enormous political gain to Bush/Blair. They had Judith Miller all primed to "get the scoop" when these planted weapons were "found." No weapons were ever found. If they had such a nefarious scheme, somebody foiled it.

The key date is July 7, 2003. Kelly had been whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC since May 22, 2003--re the Brits "sexed up" Iraq WMD docs. This was a big turnaround for Kelly. He had wanted Saddam toppled. But something occurred in March-May 2003 (invasion, and post-invasion) that caused him to start whistleblowing. Brit intel found out it was Kelly in late June. He was interrogated at a "safe house," then, on July 7, Blair was informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things." Could say. Not HAD said. Then we have the Bushites stumbling all over themselves to get Plame outed--contacting at least SIX reporters, and involving numerous top people, putting everyone at max risk of treason charges. Could anything have been more inept or foolish? Smells like panic to me. Novak takes the bait. Plame outed (7/14). They find out more after Kelly's...ahem, "suicide." Then they outed Brewster Jennings as well (7/22) (creating yet more risk of treason charges).

If all this was just to "punish" Wilson for his dissent (he published on July 6), why the rush, and the risks that were run--spreading knowledge of their treason around to at least six journalist witnesses, and passing the Plame memo around on AF-1? I think they WANTED a war with Wilson and the CIA, and set Wilson up for it, but it was a more careful plan than the one that unfolded. The one that unfolded was hasty and sloppy, and I suspect that it was triggered not by the Wilson article (7/6), but by a Blair warning to them of what Kelly "could say" (7/7). 7/14-Plame outing--because of what Plame might be able to detect or corroborate? 7/22-Brewster Jennings outing--because connections were found in Kelly's computers to BJ involvement in foiling their WMD-planting plot? (--an outing that disabled the entire project, and likely resulted in the deaths of some of BJ's covert contacts).

There were some news reports in March '03 (Tehran Times; Daily Times Monitor-Pakistan) of US forces at the Basra port secretly unloading containers with false labels ("Red Cross," "USAID" and "Maeresk" shipping company) containing missile parts, and of a covert US group moving illicit weapons cargo in Iraq that was destroyed by "friendly fire." Both of these reports have some good credibility points, the first from an Iraqi Governing Council member, the second from a US Defense Dept. whistleblower. (The latter, a DoD debriefer, Nelda Rogers, described it as a "bungled CIA plot"--but she was getting info second hand, and what may really have been happening was not the CIA "bungling" its own plot, but rather the CIA FOILING a Bush Cartel plot.)

In any case, this Sibel Edmonds interview--although she is obliged to speak in a roundabout way (being under a "gag order")--clearly indicates that the Reagan-Bush Iran-Contra Mafia is at it again, on illicit weapons and drugs, and, with the Bush Cartel having seized the reins of power in DC, they have carte blanche. It's unimaginable that they WOULDN'T have taken advantage of their overweaning power, to try to justify the war in retrospect by planting WMDs in Iraq. Can we imagine that they were idly waiting around in spring-summer '03, hoping that Judith Miller might find some?

[FreedomAngel82]

48. I think the whole ordeal

they claim with Wilson's article is just a coverup for their real reason's and it's all that you stated. Just remember that everything is all connected and by the same people.

[Beam Me Up]

51. ^^^^^EVERYONE READ POST #28!!! Peace Patriot is on to something.^^^^^

n/t

[libodem]

56. good information processing

I just wanted to comment to acknowledge your brilliant way of piecing together bits and parts into a comprehensive picture. I think very much along the same lines but could never have formulated your excellent conclusions. This whole topic is the type of 'meat and potato's' I look for in DU. This puts a huge dent in my 'appetite' for knowledge, today! Thanks

[Pobeka]

57. WOW. A motive that makes sense.

I never could come to grips with the neocons risking treason charges just to get back at Wilson.

But risking the treason charges to get a WMD's planted so they'd appear to be saviours of the world, that is a motive that was worth the risk.

[G_j]

59. great post

lots to think about..

[Nothing Without Hope]

73. Very interesting. I have believed for some time that Kelly's death was

murder to cover up "embarrassing" facts about British and American officials and their projects. I also believe that the frantic efforts to out Plame and compromise Brewster-Jennings was related primarily to stopping their undercover work on WMDs, not to the more trivial matter of a half-baked attempt to discredit Wilson.

Something very big is jusst out of sight - I hope it gets dragged into the full light.

[ooglymoogly]

35. it would appear that our great leaders

are doing more than praying for a nuclear attack on this country in order to complete their plans for a last chapter in the third reich.

[nashville_brook]

54. here's a background piece -- The Nuclear Marketplace

Case reveals nuts and bolts of nuclear network
By Josh Meyer-- Los Angeles Times
May 24 2004

ROCKVILLE, Md. - As they race to dismantle a global black market in nuclear weapons components, U.S. authorities are focusing on an unusual case: an Orthodox Jew from Israel accused of trying to sell nuclear weapons parts to a business associate in Islamic Pakistan.

Asher Karni, 50, currently a resident of South Africa, was arrested at Denver's international airport as he arrived with his wife and daughter for a New Year's ski vacation. Friends and family have been pressing for his release, describing him as a hard-working electronics salesman just trying to earn a living.

However, federal authorities contend that Karni is something more: a veteran player in an underground network of traffickers in parts, technology and know-how for the clandestine nuclear weapons programs of foreign governments.

http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/supfacts/id474.html

(article was originally published by LAT, but no longer on their archive)

[donkeyotay]

78. This is the article Edmonds referred to

not the 2005 one. She said, "last year." She meant this article which has a lot more information in it, fer instance:

But The Times has confirmed that Humayun Khan's family import-export business, Pakland Corp., was a purchasing agent for that nuclear program as far back as 1975. At the time, Pakland was negotiating at least one deal for suspected nuclear weapons material with Alfred Hempel, a German industrialist, former Nazi and central figure in the then already-burgeoning global nuclear bazaar.

Hempel, who died in 1989, did as much to spread nuclear weapons in his day as did Abdul Qadeer Khan, perhaps more, said Gary Milhollin, founder of the Washington-based Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control. During the 1970s and '80s, Hempel used cargo planes, bribes and a secret network of operatives to supply countries in South Asia, Africa, South America and the Middle East with nuclear weapons materials. Like Abdul Qadeer Khan, he made millions and, despite years of scrutiny by nuclear proliferation watchdogs, escaped any serious consequences.

[nashville_brook]

82. yeah, that other article was reporting on a procedural thing... this is

the poop.

[Lecky]

11. Fascinating Interview n/t

[Zhade]

12. Ever notice the cyclical irony of the b*s* administration?

SE: Yes, and do you know what is the ironic thing about this? If there had been an ongoing investigation, all they'd have to do is say so! To shut me up, all they needed to do would have been to go into the court and say, "Judge, you can't let her speak because we have an ongoing investigating into these things she wants to talk about." That's all!

CD: So the point is –

SE: The point is, there was no ongoing investigation! They decided to block all investigations! They could have quieted me very easily from the beginning – but that would have meant they were taking my allegations seriously –

CD: And thus you wouldn't have had to make them in the first place, if they were already being investigated.

This reminds me of the Plame scandal - while lying to us about illusory Iraqi WMD falling into al Qaeda hands to get us into an illegal war, b*s*co was systematically destroying the cover of an operation run by a deep-cover agent who tracked...terrorists trafficking in WMD!

Funny how these things pop out at you. Anyway, everyone MUST READ THIS INTERVIEW.

Great post, calipendence (oh, and check your PM, s'il vous plait).

[cascadiance]

15. New post just added to Brad's Blog in the last hour...

that speculates about her info being tied into Jack Abramoff along with Mohammed Atta, etc.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001701.htm

Folks, we need to get out on the streets with this stuff! Times a wastin'!

[whyzayker]

16. Edmonds told me two months ago..

another angle people should focus is the DOD. She just couldn't say what, exactly. Black market nukes, maybe? The fact that she wrote Tom Kean that intelligence was intentionally withheld from field agents if "certain countries or American business interests" were implicated in said intelligence ties nicely with what's known about military drug trade and other "black market" activities.

[punpirate]

20. Only problem is that...

... this guest blogger, whoever he is, has the facts wrong. Abramoff and Kadin didn't buy SunCruz. The deal fell through--they never had ownership because of the scam they tried to pull--that's what they were indicted for--wire fraud in an attempt to put the money together for the deal.

Does that change the possibility that the casino was laundering money and that terrorists might have been involved? Nope, especially since the actual owner was found dead a few months later.

[Finder]

29. They did actually buy the ships...

but ran it into the ground soon after. From the Washington Post:

Untangling a Lobbyist's Stake in a Casino Fleet
With Millions of Dollars Unaccounted for, Another Federal Investigation Targets Abramoff

By Susan Schmidt and James V. Grimaldi
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, May 1, 2005; Page A01

...

Not long after Abramoff and his partners bought SunCruz Casinos in September 2000, the venture ran aground after a fistfight between two of the owners, allegations of mob influence, dueling lawsuits and, finally, Boulis's death on Feb. 6, 2001. Now, Abramoff is the target of a federal investigation into whether the casino ship deal involved bank fraud. According to court records, the SunCruz purchase hinged on a fake wire transfer for $23 million intended to persuade lenders to provide financing to Abramoff's group.

[punpirate]

33. Depends upon which is more accurate...

... the May story, or this report, from Aug. 12:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR2005081200239.html

which says that "The six-count federal indictment unsealed in Fort Lauderdale alleges that Abramoff, 40, and a partner, Adam Kidan, 36, of New York, faked a $23 million wire transfer to defraud two lenders out of some $60 million to finance the $147 million purchase of SunCruz Casinos from Konstantinos "Gus" Boulis in September 2000.

"The deal ultimately collapsed and Boulis, 51, was killed five months later in an apparent hit. The shooting is unsolved."

This is the source I was going by.

Cheers.

[Finder]

38. But the next paragraph says...

The deal ultimately collapsed and Boulis, 51, was killed five months later in an apparent hit. The shooting is unsolved.

Abramoff's indictment alleges that he used SunCruz income to pay for political fundraising activities. He has denied any wrongdoing concerning SunCruz.


Notice he did get income. I do think it is interesting how the wording is though.

[punpirate]

58. Yeah, doesn't make complete sense...

... does it? At least in the terms that most of us understand a deal (as in you sign the papers, pay the money and take control of the company).

Without seeing the contract, it's a little murky, still.

Cheers.

[cascadiance]

22. Someone else notes that Michael Rubin is someone to look at here...

on the Brad Blog story there. Here's a story that also just came out a few days ago that notes two more AIPAC officials have been charged with spying in the Larry Franklin case. It also mentions Michael Rubin in it.

The story here sounds like it could be very much related to what Sibel is pointing to and as part of the same larger grand conspiracy.

From:
http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=302234

--------------

Important new details of the U.S.-Israeli espionage case
Posted: 08/12
From: TomPaine

by Robert Dreyfus

Important new details of the U.S.-Israeli espionage case involving Larry Franklin, the alleged Pentagon spy, two officials of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, and an intelligence official at the Embassy of Israel emerged last week. Two AIPAC officials—who have left the organization—were indicted along with Franklin on charges of "communicat(ing) national defense information to persons not entitled to receive it." In plain English, if not legal-speak, that means spying.

But as the full text of the indictment makes clear, the conspiracy involved not just Franklin and the AIPAC officials, Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman, but at least several other Pentagon officials who played intermediary roles, at least two other Israeli officials, and one official at a "Washington, D.C. think tank." It's an old-fashioned spy story involving the passing of secret documents, hush-hush meetings and outright espionage, along with good-old-boy networking.

But the network tied to the "Franklin case"—which ought to be called the "AIPAC case," since it was AIPAC that was really under investigation by the FBI—provides an important window into a shadowy world. It is clear that by probing the details of the case, the FBI has got hold of a dangerous loose end of much larger story. By pulling on that string hard enough, the FBI and the Justice Department might just unravel that larger story, which is beginning to look more and more like it involves the same nexus of Pentagon civilians, White House functionaries, and American Enterprise Institute officials who thumped the drums for war in Iraq in 2001-2003 and who are now trying to whip up an anti-Iranian frenzy as well.

Needless to say, all of this got short shrift from the mainstream media when it was revealed last week.

...

[moodforaday]

17. Thank you, and kick

:kick:

[G_j]

18. ~kICk~

[G_j]

21. --=

[DeepModem Mom]

23. kick

[tanyev]

25. Whoa...this is what many DUers have theorized:

SE: Essentially, there is only one investigation – a very big one, an all-inclusive one. Completely by chance, I, a lowly translator, stumbled over one piece of it....You can start from the AIPAC angle. You can start from the Plame case. You can start from my case. They all end up going to the same place, and they revolve around the same nucleus of people. There may be a lot of them, but it is one group. And they are very dangerous for all of us.

It's all related.

[sattahipdeep]

47. Sounds like someone is getting the right idea (It's all related.)

If Congress does not take action, Edmonds said, the coalition will
run newspaper ads publicizing the names of individual managers who
are alleged to have committed wrongdoing, along with their positions
and salaries.

In the past three years, I have been threatened; I have been gagged several times;
I have continuously been prevented from pursuing my due process; all reports and
investigations looking into my case have been classified; and every governmental
or investigative authority dealing with my case has been shut up. According to legal
experts familiar with my case, the level of secrecy and classification in my court case
and the attitudes and handling of the court system in dealing with my case is
unprecedented in the entire U.S. court history. According to other experts I am one of
the most, if not the most, gagged woman anybody knows of or has heard of. Why?

Someone should ask Fitzgerald. Why? http://www.justacitizen.com

[il_lilac]

69. thanks

i signed the petition

[Al-CIAda]

26. .

[Imagevision]

27. Sibel Edmunds DSM and Rove - The rest is easy to figure out!

We should kick this Edmunds story around so it stays in the back of the minds of people.
Bush cartel has pulled so many stunts it's difficult to keep track!

[Al-CIAda]

30. .

[ooglymoogly]

31. sibel edmonds is a true patriot and should be up for the nobel

we owe her...she has placed the dots. all we have to do is connect them. thanks for the post of a truly important interview...and she is so right about getting the truth out will be the safest thing to do. all those who have this information and are siting on it are in mortal danger...the sooner it is out the safer they will be...we are talking about ruthless people here.

[nashville_brook]

40. no doubt! what's she waitiing for? get an independent counsel, STET!

:yoiks:

[DemonFighterLives]

32. kick nt

:kick:

[isitover]

34. kick NT

[G_j]

64. welcome to DU isitover!

& thanks for the kick

[Gabi Hayes]

36. where the FFFFFFFFF is the MSM?

[nashville_brook]

37. she describes a CONSPIRACY and we do ourselves a disservice by not having

a forum where we deal with this sort of information. it's like she said, her message is getting lost in the Whistleblower angle.

Whistleblowers aren't signigicant just because they step out of line. they are significant b/c their message is a piece of the puzzle. a tool in our arsenal. a detail. a witness. filling in the blank.

we need a place where Emerging Knowlege is protected from rhetorical violence -- a white board where we can start connecting the dots. we need a place that has the same status as "Education" and "Foreign Affairs," where we can compare notes and present hypotheses with potential to rise to the level of Greatest.

these issues are urgent and they are effciently and effectively dealt with on DU forums. but we have no place for "Deep Politics," or "Meta Theory," or "Emerging Knowlege." in fact, we are careful to edit (self-edit and otherwise) anything that might be considered CT. we give life to a powerful weapon to be used against us when we allow that to happen.

we could rock this research with just the smallest amount organization and cultivation such in the Election forum. it would be so great if we could evolve. rise to meet the challenge. maybe it takes the shape of a coveneant forum...where everyone agrees to be nice. or maybe it's a super-mod forum??? maybe that's not needed at all. maybe if there were a place, we would come and we would boogie just fine.

[moodforaday]

41. I would love to see a forum

such as you describe. Very much so.

[nashville_brook]

43. it would go a long way to de-mystify and get on with the biz of truth

it's bascially about capital and government. it shouldn't be a bugaboo.

[cascadiance]

72. DU actually DOES have a whistleblower's forum...

Helped get it created about a week ago or so. Go to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

You are right that we need some place to start "piecing" together the stories in a central location (there are so many now, and many are showing signs of all being connected now). That was a big reason we created that forum. I was out of town over the weekend (at a reunion of other Americans that lived in Turkey as kids coincidentally), and hopefully in the coming weeks I'll have some time to build up this forum with some "historical" threads that I'll try to get pinned to be the information "receptacle" for people to get up to speed on these issues, and other threads can be focused on analytical threads that try to connect the dots together. I and many that put together this forum still feel that is way too important to not just pigeonhole this information into this group where we won't get many casual visitors coming through. We still need threads on LBM and GD groups. I think it was a bit unfortunate, though not too damaging that this thread got moved from LBN to General Discussion. Because though it was an interview, it really WAS news in all of the stuff that was being presented, and VERY hot off the presses too.

I almost weird about leaving a message to G_j that I was headed to the airport after just posting this thread earlier, and wondered during my plane flights if that would be my last post here! :) Nah, I'm not near important enough for them to crap on yet. They'll still try to get Sibel first if she gets on a plane. It did have me wondering how she feels when she goes various places though, with a lot more of a target hanging over her head.

[nashville_brook]

75. flying freaks me out!

:) always has tho. i'll check out whistleblowers. DU is so dang big. maybe it makes more sense not to add another room.

just had a random thought..

Maybe use a naming convention and cross-posting would be a way to proactively mine information while avoiding the balklandization of the info.

[cascadiance]

76. Yah, we could use some ideas on how best to "mirror" threads there...

Post a bit in the whistleblower's forum with ideas on how to cross post so that we can direct folks to there, but not bury the discussions there in terms of visibility. Ideas on how to crosspost though is the kind of discussion we should have in that other forum.

I just got back from out-of-town and am catching up on other things. I really want to spend some time shortly on organizing some pinned threads in this forum to really help make it serve as sort of a FAQ and historical area for the various whistleblowers and their issues. As soon as that's done, I think I'll put a reference to it in my sig below Sibel's "icon".

But as noted, don't start important threads there. Start them here or in LBN, and refer to them in more complex discussions in the whistleblower's forum. We cannot afford to have folks like Sibel Edmonds, Karen Kwiatkowki, Indira Singh, etc. to be buried any more than they are already.

This is one topic area that IS definitely not getting enough attention in the MSM.

[moodforaday]

39. A well-deserved kick

Thank you for posting this.
:kick:

[nashville_brook]

42. i knew deadheads who spoke totally knowingly of government involvement

in the great acid trade of the 80s. they'd go into great detail on the size of the operations from their pov. when it got around to "why" the govenment was in on the biggest drug deals of the tours, imaginations ran wild.

we forget, for some people, money is enough of a reason.

[faithnotgreed]

44. crucial for all to see this

[FreedomAngel82]

45. I think it's a good sign

that her lawyers are more positive. It's natural to feel like you're case isn't going to be heard etc. when dealing with this group of people. I find it amazing all this stuff is happening at once to Bush. So much for his mandate for his stolen second term eh?

[Imagevision]

46. Sibel Edmunds > Bush, tear down that stone wall remove the gag order

we should keep Sibel Edmunds story kicked around, she's as relevant if not more so then outing Plame!!

[moodforaday]

49. No use talking to *

He is, apparently, psychotic:

Capitol Hill Blue: Is Bush Out of Control?
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7218.shtml

Buy beleaguered, overworked White House aides enough drinks and they tell a sordid tale of an administration under siege, beset by bitter staff infighting and led by a man whose mood swings suggest paranoia bordering on schizophrenia.

They describe a President whose public persona masks an angry, obscenity-spouting man who berates staff, unleashes tirades against those who disagree with him and ends meetings in the Oval Office with “get out of here!”

In fact, George W. Bush’s mood swings have become so drastic that White House emails often contain “weather reports” to warn of the President’s demeanor. “Calm seas” means Bush is calm while “tornado alert” is a warning that he is pissed at the world.

Decreasing job approval ratings and increased criticism within his own party drives the President’s paranoia even higher. Bush, in a meeting with senior advisors, called Senator Majority Leader Bill Frist a “god-damned traitor” for opposing him on stem-cell research.

(same author, a year earlier)
"Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides"
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4636.shtml

[hiley]

60. This needs it own Thread.

Could you post it?
If not I will, everyone should see this.
Hiley:hi:

[moodforaday]

62. Already on DU

Two threads today :)

Democratic Underground - Is Bush Out of Control? Capital Hill Blue today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2010451

Democratic Underground - Is Bush Out of Control?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4357094

[hiley]

63. Great!!

Thanks for the link too.
Hiley:applause:

[G_j]

50. kick

:bounce:

[Independent_Liberal]

55. Kick!

[Al-CIAda]

65. .

[nonny]

66. "An Outrageous Lie"

Title: Rice 9/11 claim an `outrageous lie'
The Australian, APR 03, 2004
Database: Newspaper Source

Rice 9/11 claim an `outrageous lie'

Edition: 1 - All-round Country
Section: World, pg. 013

LONDON: US officials knew months before September 11, 2001, that the
al-Qa'ida network planned to use aircraft to commit a terrorist
attack, according to a former FBI translator.

Sibel Edmonds told The Independent newspaper in London that a claim
by US National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice that there had
been no such warnings was ``an outrageous lie''. Ms Edmonds said
she had provided information about her claims to a US commission
investigating the September 11 attacks.

The 33-year-old Turkish-American translator told The Independent:
``There was general information about the timeframe, about methods
to be used -- but not specifically about how they would be used
-- and about people being in place and who was ordering these sorts
of terror attacks.

``There were other cities that were mentioned. Major cities -- with
skyscrapers.''

Ms Edmonds accused Dr Rice of an ``outrageous lie'' in suggesting
US intelligence officials had no forewarning of such attacks. She
said it would be ``impossible'' that US intelligence officials had
no forewarning of such attacks, based on documents she had seen
during her time with the FBI after September 11.

Copyright 2004 / The Weekend Australian


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Australian, The, APR 03, 2004
Item: 200404031013744310

This is from the database EBSCOhost MasterFile (subscription)

[nonny]

67. "It's a lie and a lie is a lie"

Title: Ex-FBI worker challenges 9/11 'lie'
Toronto Star (Canada), 03190781, Apr 05, 2004
Database: Newspaper Source

Ex-FBI worker challenges 9/11 'lie'

Claims U.S. had warnings of airplane attacks White House adviser's statements 'not accurate'

Section: News, pg. A08

snip-

"But there was specific information on the use of airplanes. There were people issuing orders and information on people already in place in this country months before Sept. 11."

She said she is not passing on hearsay, but information on specific documents, the names of witnesses, the names of FBI agents and other information so investigators can rely "not on my word," but on the documents themselves. Most of them were dated April and May, 2001, she said. She has previously provided such information to congressional investigators.

Edmonds, a Turkish-born U.S. citizen, said she was "appalled" by Rice's public statements, delivered in a number of television interviews, that there was no information indicating planes would be used on domestic targets.

Had Rice indicated that she did not know, Edmonds may have given her the benefit of the doubt.

"Then I would say maybe the FBI did not take the information to her, maybe she didn't know," Edmonds said.

"But she's is saying 'we' did not know, including herself, her advisers and the FBI. That statement is not accurate. I've never really been diplomatic in life. It's a lie and a lie is a lie."

snip-

"She is a spectacular woman," said Edmonds' New York lawyer Eric Seiff.

"If I am being fooled here, then I am being fooled big time. She comes across as wonderfully straight with me in all our dealings."

Bush, after months of refusals, succumbed to public pressure and allowed Rice's public testimony this week.

Copyright (c) 2004 Toronto Star, All Rights Reserved.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Toronto Star (Canada), Apr 05, 2004
Item: 6FP3550641608

This is from the database EBSCOhost MasterFile (subscription)

[Imagevision]

68. a gag order on Sibel is criminal in itself - they know Edmunds can expose

them all so they must silence her. Bush's Amerika she pulls no punches and DEM/repugs alike are mentioned in illegal activities.

Travesty of justice of all time!!

[Al-CIAda]

70. .

[G_j]

71. ==

[G_j]

74. kick

[fujiyama]

77. She's great

She's relentless and deserves our support - a truly inspirational character.

[G_j]

79. kick

[Al-CIAda]

80. .

[Al-CIAda]

81. .

[lostnfound]

83. For more on Zeki Bilman, Giza Technologies, nuke smuggling - see...

http://www.isis-online.org/publications/southafrica/asherkarni.html

Incidentally, Giza Technologies is located in Seacaucus, just 5 miles from Urban Moving Systems where those Mossad agents worked.

[alfredo]

86. Kicking this for my own selfish reasons

I want to read it in the morning.

[Al-CIAda]

87. .

[nonny]

88. Vanity Fair Interview with Sibel Edmonds

Vanity Fair Interview with Sibel Edmonds

Vanity Fair | September 2005

AN INCOVENIENT PATRIOT

By David Rose

Love of country led Sibel Edmonds to become a translator for the F.B.I. following 9/11. But everything changed when she accused a colleague of covering up illicit activity involving Turkish nationals. Fired after sounding the alarm, she’s now fighting for the ideals that made her an American, and threatening some very powerful people.

In Washington, D.C., and its suburbs, December 2, 2001 was fine but cool, the start of the slide into winter after a spell of unseasonable warmth. At 10 o’clock that morning, Sibel and Matthew Edmonds were still in their pajamas, sipping coffee in the kitchen of their waterfront town house in Alexandria, Virginia, and looking forward to a well-deserved lazy Sunday.

Since mid-September, nine days after the 9/11 attacks, Sibel had been exploiting her fluency in Turkish, Farsi, and Azerbaijani as a translator at the F.B.I. It was arduous, demanding work, and Edmonds—who had two bachelor’s degrees, was about to begin studying for her master’s, and had plans for a doctorate—could have been considered overqualified. But as a naturalized Turkish-American, she saw the job as her patriotic duty.

The Edmondses’ thoughts were turning to brunch when Matthew answered the telephone. The caller was a woman he barely knew—Melek Can Dickerson, who worked with Sibel at the F.B.I. "I’m in the area with my husband and I’d love you to meet him," Dickerson said. "Is it O.K. if we come by?" Taken by surprise, Sibel and Matthew hurried to shower and dress. Their guests arrived 30 minutes later. Matthew, a big man with a fuzz of gray beard, who at 60 was nearly twice the age of his petite, vivacious wife, showed them into the kitchen. They sat at a round, faux-marble table while Sibel brewed tea.

more--

http://infowars.com/articles/sept11/sibel_edmonds_interview.htm

[robertpaulsen]

89. "there is only one investigation – a very big one, an all-inclusive one"

Sibel is simply amazing:

SE: Essentially, there is only one investigation – a very big one, an all-inclusive one. Completely by chance, I, a lowly translator, stumbled over one piece of it.

But I can tell you there are a lot of people involved, a lot of ranking officials, and a lot of illegal activities that include multi-billion-dollar drug-smuggling operations, black-market nuclear sales to terrorists and unsavory regimes, you name it. And of course a lot of people from abroad are involved. It's massive. So to do this investigation, to really do it, they will have to look into everything.

CD: But you can start from anywhere –

SE: That's the beauty of it. You can start from the AIPAC angle. You can start from the Plame case. You can start from my case. They all end up going to the same place, and they revolve around the same nucleus of people. There may be a lot of them, but it is one group. And they are very dangerous for all of us.

If there is any justice in the world, they would all hang for treason!

[nonny]

90. Thank you robertpaulsen

I am reading and have much to learn.
Thank you for compiling all this research.
The date is a year ago --- but this is new to me.
Just wanted to thank you... and now I will go back and finish reading.

[cascadiance]

91. TWO investigations may have been started from Vanity Fair article

The first one was mentioned in Democracy Now interview that Sibel and David Rose had last week that noted that the military reopened its investigation into the Dickersons after the article came out, so one has officially been started.

The other one may start shortly after CREW just filed a complaint to the FEC to start an investigation into Hastert's campaign funding after the allegations were noted in this article about the Turkish influences over his voting on the Armenian question. Read more in the following link that has been put out on the AP...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050816hastert,1,4417307.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Sibel's only just begun (and it's been a painfully slow process), but she IS going to be heard folks!

[faithnotgreed]

92. very big kick of support for sibel - she has been amazing

and thank you calipendence for posting all this

[Al-CIAda]

93. .

[G_j]

94. DU group: Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers

DU group: Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

[Al-CIAda]

96. .

[Karenina]

97. Kick!

:kick:

[cascadiance]

98. Citizenspook suggests Plame may have been outed for what Sibel knows...

This article on Citizenspook suggests that Valerie Plame may have been outed for more than just mere revenge from the Bush cabal. It suggests Plame's undercover WMD group may have been getting close to evidence of the Bush admin's and the state department's criminal actions in the area of WMD's, that Sibel Edmonds had uncovered in her translations, and that this was a way to shut this effort down.

This all seems to fit with Sibel Edmonds' characterization of the State Department as the ultimate culprits in the above interview.

From:
http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/2005/08/treasongate-controlling-law-part-2.html

------

Friday, August 05, 2005
TREASONGATE: The Controlling Law, Part 2: THE DEATH PENALTY, 18 USC 794 and the shift from GWOT to GSAVE

...

The Bush syndicate must have come to the conclusion that they had a better chance of spinning the outing of Plame to petty retaliation for Wilson's debunking of the Niger document fraud, than they had of surviving an investigation by the CIA of their crimes against the USA and humanity at large, for the fixing of intelligence to support a preemptive war and possibly the facilitation of future black op patsies.

Until recently, the Bush spin machine has flawlessly controlled public attention by concentrating it, as to the law, on the insignificant Intelligence Identities Protection Act, and, as to their motivations, on the Wilson smear campaign. This has been easy spin as their gambit was centered in confidence that the media would play along.

What they could not spin, if the CIA was on to them, was mountains of evidence Plame and her network might have uncovered, evidence which may have been implicating the Bush syndicate in Treason.

Certainly, the State Department and the White House staff must have considered that outing a CIA agent of any level or status, covert or non covert, who was working on weapons of mass destruction, "in a time of war", might lead to that work being compromised and that such actions on their part might expose them to the provisions of 18 USC 793 and 794, among other laws.

...

Were Plame's team of CIA agents getting close to some of the things Sibel Edmonds was translating at the FBI, things which might implicate the Bush syndicate in 911 as well as the facilitation of terrorist cells getting their hands on components necessary to develop Nuclear weapons to be used against the USA so that the Bush administration could retaliate by going into Iraq, Iran, then North Korea and wherever else their imperialist buts saw fit?

...

[Al-CIAda]

99. .

[Al-CIAda]

100. .

[robertpaulsen]

101. Sunday kick

:kick: