"Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers" - Running down Crosses Honoring Our Fallen

[loudsue]

I have to admit, I was always skeptical about the stories of soldiers being spit on. I was in college during the anti-war protests of the 60's and 70's, and everyone I knew in the "movement", still honored the soldiers.

A lot of people I knew in the movement wanted to spit on the POLITICIANS that supported letting our soldiers DIE. But everyone I came in contact with felt deep compassion for our soldiers, who were having to give up their youth and innocence in Vietnam. After all, they were our classmates in school, our brothers, our boyfriends, our cousins, our husbands, or our friends. We knew those guys!

But running over CROSSES, put there to HONOR our fallen soldiers, happened last night. It was real. It was recorded.

Crosses honoring dead Republican soldiers, and crosses honoring dead Democratic soldiers...crosses honoring AMERICAN soldiers, got mowed down by a partisan REPUBLICAN-supporting fanatic.

I've known for years that the republican party has been more interested in their republican party support than they were interested in what was good for all of America. They have been putting THE REPUBLICAN party agenda and loyalty ahead of their patriotism, religion, or their loyalty to our country. They have made a great show of flag waving and religion, in order to hide the lie in their hearts: it's not AMERICA they support, it's the idea of "winning" against their American enemies...the "liberals", or the "democrats"....you know: they "bad guys". The "bad guys" that make up ONE HALF (or more) of the country they claim to love.

They don't love our country. And they obviously don't love our troops. They certainly don't honor our fallen soldiers, who have been sent to foreign soil to die for their oil, as a result of the lies that go all the way to the top of their REPUBLICAN party.

If anyone ever did really spit on a returning vietnam soldier, it was a deplorable act. An act so stupid, so mindless, so twisted that I have always had trouble believing the story was true. It would never have made sense to any of the war protesters I knew....who were people who thought deeply about the whole thing...college kids, mostly. And learned people. We were feeling tremendous compassion for our troops, because, like I said; they were our brothers, our classmates, our boyfriends, relatives. We were hearing the horror stories about what they went through, in letters, and when they got home. At least, from the ones who could even talk about it, because often the words would just stick in their throats, from the pain of it.

But now, we have a group of protesters who yell "We Don't CARE!" about the fallen soldiers, and the people who grieve their deaths. We have some billy-bob-bad-ass that takes a pickup truck, pipe and chain, and mows down Memorial Crosses to our fallen soldiers.

It makes me sad for the loss of our education system, that used to be the envy of the world, that no longer teaches people to THINK critically, rather than be brainwashed easily. It makes me sad for the loss of our empathy and compassion, as a population. Yes, the United States government has done many deplorable things through our history, but much of it was done without the knowledge of the people. So the people generally remained decent, caring human beings.

The likes of Rush Limpballs, and a media ownership structure who chose the dark side, changed all of that culture of decency to a culture of ignorance and hate, for the sake of news marketing.

If the values of running down the Crosses Honoring our Dead Soldiers is what we've come to, it's time this country needs to take a long hard look at ourselves. That type of introspection can't be done with sound bites.

Our young people in uniform are being asked to die, and they're being asked to kill. And when they die, the Crosses that Honor them are being mowed down for partisan sport. It doesn't take a genius to see that something is terribly wrong here.

It's time for a change in the direction our people are being lead. It's time for a cultural revolution. It's time to clean our house here at home, and purge our country from the insanity that would lead someone to mow down the Crosses that Honor our War Dead.

[dogman]

1. Not just crosses, US flags also shown.

They just have no respect for our country.

[DixieDem]

2. Excellent Post!!!

Recommended!

[loudsue]

46. Thanks, Dixie!

This post sank to the bottom of the first, then the second page without a reply, so I went to the grocery store.

Then I come home, and here you guys are!

Thanks for the recommendation! :hug:

My head is still reeling from some dude mowing down those crosses.

:kick::kick::kick:

[TransitJohn]

3. Totally nominated.

Good post.

[Horse with no Name]

4. Very nice.

Thank you.

[In Truth We Trust]

5. WTF- Enough is Enough!!!!

[Straight Shooter]

6. Those who sneer at our outrage over the desecration of those crosses ...

Why in the world would a soldier want to give his or her life for them?

Great post, loudsue. I hear you. :patriot:

[sui generis]

7. long past time

Reagan started us on this path - removing "liberal" from the public education system and getting back to "fundamental" readin', writin' & cipherin'.

Gone were the civics classes that taught basic constitutional awareness, the liberal (not religious) foundation of our country, the ideals of democracy, and the responsibilities and duties of citizenship.

The republicans also started a trend of voting brain dead, or nearly brain dead so called "leaders" into office, running up tremendous deficits, playing on basic republican "meanness", and lining their own bank accounts with cronyism, corruption, and overt political graft.

If we want this to end, we have to go back into the public education system and make "electives" such as basic civics, requirements of public education. It's not merely enough that kids graduate highschool able to read. Even if they can't read or do analytic geometry, they should be able to at the very least speak about what makes the idea of America as powerful as it is. They should be able to do and say more than just "America Is Number One" mindlessly and wave their little plastic flag, because we are not number one in anything but denial at this point.

And we need to wake up the slumbering middle today - the loony right got them pissed off about gay marriage a year ago. We need to get them pissed off about having America stolen from them by corporations and creditors and insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and oil companies and every other republican benefactor who thinks we as individuals exist to be harvested to line their bank accounts, to fight their wars and to do it without recourse to an unbiased court, or even to a court at all.

They have been raping this country for the past five years and raping the future of our children for the past five years, and raping the health of our seniors for the past five years and it's time for the fucking raping to STOP. And it's time for them to pay. I want those evil bastards to be in hiding, held legally accountable for their crimes and socially accountable for their views, in the closet, in the back of the closet, ashamed to admit they ever supported that bumbling ass zit of a human that calls himself president.

:rant:

I've got more where that came from. Lots.

[liberal N proud]

8. Great Post

[PurpleChez]

9. Awesome post!

This event, perhaps more than anything that has gone before it, shows the ugliness and hate and thuggishness and stupidity of the Repugs. It galls me to think that there are probably millions of bumpkins around the nations (and thousands in my own Georgia neighborhood) who consider Billy Bob Pickup Dumbass a great patriot and a soldier for Christ.

[DURHAM D]

10. Thank you for putting it all together. eom

[LiberalinNC]

11. Great post, thanks! The guy who ran over the memorial is a hypocrite!

He probably goes to church each Sunday, but has no problem running over crosses that are place to remember dead soldiers. :puke:

[namvet73]

12. Personal experience

I joined the USAF in 1969. After my training, I was allowed to come home on what was called "boot leave". I was leaving from Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS. My flight landed in Laguardia (or was it Kennedy - don't remember). My father did not want to drive into NY from NJ, so he asked me to get a taxi or something.

I was in uniform. First I tried to get a taxi, but they refused to pick me up and treated me as if it was my fault that we were at war in Vietnam. Then I tried New York Airways, which was a helicopter service from NY to Newark. I was told that the service was discontinued.

I called my father, who then agreed to pick me up. As I sat on my duffle bag across from the New York Airways waiting area, they called for the next group of people scheduled to fly on this "dicontinued" service. It didn't cross my mind, but I should have just gone into a men's room and changed into my civilian clothes (in my duffle bag).

During my leave, I was on a date and she asked me to wear my uniform. We stopped for gas at one point. She later told me that the people at the service station were laughing and making fun of me in my uniform.

I wasn't exactly spat upon, but that's some of the lowsy attitude I experienced. I was puzzled. I didn't like the war. I didn't start it, but I was being blamed for it.

I learned to travel in my "civies" from then on. There was no further incidents that I can remember.

I was stationed in K.I. Sawyer AFB in Michigan for two years, before going to South East Asia for the last year. I remember we were treated quite well in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

namvet73

[I Have A Dream]

23. I'm sorry that this happened to you back in the 60s.

I'm glad that we learned our lesson -- the troops are not the administration. Apples and oranges. It's not equivalent to -- but similar to -- shooting the messenger.

Thank you for your sacrifice for our country, namvet73. :patriot:

[bostonbabs]

29. "Welcome Home"

My fiance is a Vietnam Vet and speaks to high school kids in southern cal. every year with a group of vets for the junior year history classes. I like to go ....it does depress me because the students are so lethargic... even over the Iraq war!....many of the panel speak about what an awful time they had coming home and the disrespect they were shown. I think that it is important to remember that we didn't have 24/7 news and the internet then. It was hard for people to mobilize behind an idea......this medium has allowed us to SEEK and SPEAK the TRUTH like no other in the history of the world. It took us years to realize what we put men who went to Vietnam through.The disgrace of it.Again you had non military men...Nixon and Kissinger ( the whore of whores ....thankfully because of this medium people expressed their outrage over his appointment to the 9/11 commission remember?.and he got canned....FOX has him on now but very few others...)
My fiance also marches ( without uniform ) with many other Vietnam Vets and every year they bring people to their feet with loud applause.
We were at a wedding recently and when my fiance found out my cousin was a Marine in Vietnam he said to him "welcome home".My cousin returned the gesture. It is a common greeting among them. "Welcome Home". Because it was never said to them...they were ignored and shunned.
Every night on the news during the Vietnam war that had very large numbers plastered across the screen with the number of dead for the Day....remember??....I am so ashamed of Americans not talking about these men and women fighting. How Fox can cover the Holloway case and not cover a soldiers story....any soldier is beyond me.And they have the temerity to speak about patriotism!
"welcome Home"

[Lowell]

31. Welcome Home Namvet73

I was in country in 1968-1969. When I returned I wasn't spit on. But when I got home nobody wanted me dating their daughters. Nam was a bummer, but I ended up serving 11 years in the army. I liked the travel. It was a real education. I know you can support the troops without supporting the war. Hell, you know, none of us liked getting shot at.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Welcome home Airman

and there is nothing I can say about this to make it better or go away

[BikeWriter]

52. Welcome home, NamVet. Thank you for serving America.

I was in VietNam in '67 and '68. I saw some of those same things when I came back. I've also seen DUers feeding the freepers by criticizing our troops. They can find plenty of things to slam us about on their own. Judicious thought about what is construed, assumed, or said about our troops will serve us all well in the long run.

[loudsue]

80. BikeWriter, please remember that NOT EVERYONE on DU is

a "DUer"...even some of the long-time folks, who have flown under the radar of the Mods.

Any DUer worth their salt, and any DUer who is cut out of the real cloth, isn't someone who would fan those flames.

"You will know them by their fruits". Any "DUer" who criticizes the troops, prolly is trying to stir things up...there are lots of people who would like to stir things up & divide DU, like they've divided the "conservatives & liberals" in the news.

The truth is, AMERICANS who can still think critically about what is happening, don't go along with that line of thinking. "Liberals", in general, KNOW that our soldiers were LIED into war. "Conservatives", in general, are thinking something stinks (not including those who are insane on the kool-aid...the ones that the media drags out before the cameras, and their "believers").

It's time that we start addressing AMERICANS, rather than labels of some other divisive stripe.

:kick::kick::kick:

[w8liftinglady]

55. That happened to my boyfriend,too

Bless you both,for your courage and service.I know it's a long time coming.

[namvet73]

74. THANK YOU!

I'm overwhelmed!

All I can say is thank you.

I think everyone here is serving their country by trying to find better paths and through disagreement with what is happening.

If we didn't care we would not dissent.

[FreedomSpirit]

93. I was around back then too

and married a disabled Vietnam vet in 1975. He had half his face and right eye blown away over there but took his injuries in stride & wore his eye patch with pride as he pursued his MBA (which he just burned out with & didn't get). We sent out dozens of resumes in response to job openings in management and either got rejection letters saying he didn't have the "experience" they wanted or nothing at all. Vietnam vets in those years were pariahs to many employers and in that way were metaphorically spat upon. It was disgusting and heartbreaking.

My ex finally got a job at the VA and was there until he retired last year.

I sure as hell hope that the kids coming back from this debacle don't have to put up with that kind of unjustifiable crappy attitude.

[williesgirl]

13. Couldn't agree with you more - was at Kent State right after the

killings there. The feeling I had walking thru that campus was one of complete and utter sadness and shame in my government. I hadn't had that feeling again until * and his gang of criminals stole the office and began their heinous campaign to totally destroy this country, its people and Constitution. It makes me sick and terrified that my daughter may have to live in a totally different US than we did growing up. We must all do whatever we can to keep that from happening.

[GliderGuider]

19. Welcome williesgir!

:hi:

[newportdadde]

14. The Democratic Party was just handed a loaded gun

If we had a spin machine like the RW we would hammer this home and pin it to the far right and how unsupportive and un-american they are. You sure as hell know if it was the other way around thats all we would hear from a week. But of course our leadership will never do it.

[carnie_sf]

30. Not to mention unchristian

[MidwestTransplant]

15. Has anybody seen this covered on Cable News

or any papers or TV News? I know the wire didn't pick it up until later last night.

[RoyGBiv]

33. Not exactly, but ...

I heard a rant about it on a local radio talk show this morning, highest rated morning drive show in OKC amazingly enough. They ranted about Bush, about this idiot who thought it was a good idea to run over a memorial to war dead, pretty much the whole deal.

It wasn't the kind of rant *I* would have given, but it was there, and I was shocked to hear it. These guys on the show aren't the most progressive individuals in the world, but they hit the nail on the head this time.

[I Have A Dream]

42. It's in Salon, and sometimes some of the other "news"...

organizations will print things after Salon prints them.

Link: http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html?blog=/politics/war_room/2005/08/16/sheehan/index.html

(You may have to get a day pass to see this since some things can't be seen in Salon unless you're a subscriber or you get a day pass.)

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

77. It's also on Yahoo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050816/ts_nm/bush_protester_dc

[WMliberal]

16. that is a red-ass even Bartcop would be proud of. Nominated.

:yourock:

[loudsue]

47. LOL! Thanks WMliberal!

That's quite a compliment!

:kick:

[photuris]

17. Info on the Guy who did it.

According to Reuters, Larry Northern, 46 of nearby Waco did it. A google search for him turned up his address, phone number and a delicious quote from him cite

"Baylor parent and Woodway resident Larry Northern said he decided to support Lynch because he was 'honest, straight-shooting and moral.' Northern said Lynch's favorite saying was, 'Don't do crime because you're going to do the time.' "

Edit: added link to Reuters AlertNet Article.

[ronnykmarshall]

20. Keep this kicked!

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnykmarshall]

28. Sorry, but we don't post phone numbers.

Please delete that.

[NurseLefty]

54. OK, let's try this:

Here is an idea: express your grievances in a CIVIL and LEGAL manner by doing a white pages/similar search on the web for the contact information for the two Larrys.
I found their contact information rather easily and I am sending letters to them to express my outrage. This is a free country (at least I think it still is), therefore I will express my opinions to these two individuals.
I'd post the info here but per DU rules, I guess I cannot. But again, you can find it yourself!

[txindy]

58. So, the coward drove all the way from Waco to commit that crime

It wasn't as if he was an 'outraged and inconvienced' local, as Larry Mattlage claims to be. Northern went waaaaay out of his way to do this. Well, I hope he does the time for his crime. And I hope he's messed up his truck's transmission doing it. :evilgrin:

Welcome to DU, photuris. Nice find. :hi:

[I Have A Dream]

18. This inspired me to send another donation to the...

Crawford Peace House for Cindy. Every time they do something like this, I'm going to donate again.

[ronnykmarshall]

21. Same here.

Just got two rebate checks for a total of $56.60 and it's on it's way to Crawford.

[I Have A Dream]

24. You go, ronnykmarshall!

:yourock:

[loudsue]

69. Thank you both, very much!

The work they are doing at the Peace House is beautiful, and in the best spirit of support for a better America!

:loveya:

:kick:

[the other one]

22. You have given words to my feelings. Thankyou. nt

[LisaLynne]

25. Beautiful post.

:thumbsup:

This act speaks volumes symbolically. We honor the dead; they desecrate what we create. All they have to offer is distructions and cowardly acts of vandalism.

[Blue_Roses]

32. great post!

:yourock: :applause:

[windbreeze]

34. YES, it's true...

My husband was RA...in Vietnam...twice...he refused to wear his uniform on leave, because he was afraid for our personal safety...trust me, our boys were spat upon, and much more..the awful thing is, it wasn't them who put us there...and when they decided to make the military thier choice of career, they did as they were told, and went where they were told to do...GI...does after all....mean, government issue...you don't have a choice..
This incident in Crawford, is horrible, and brought tears to my eyes once again...will the pain of the memories, ever go away?

Welcome back, and Thank You...to all our precious vets..the day will come, hopefully, when all will realize what serving cost you, personally...
windbreeze

[Initech]

35. Great post! I still cant believe this happened.

What a fucking douchebag.

[hnsez]

36. We have to put a face on this to make it stick - a repuke Jane Fonda

This guy's name and face need to be plastered everywhere, and used as a talking point in every single campaign

[osaMABUSh]

92. Larry C. Northern apparently was a gun nut - here's a pic

http://www.wacoforsale.com/ltd/

Click "Hall of Fame" on the left side to get to the page with the soldier hater



From left to right: Larry D. Cohen, Executive Officer; Larry W. Ritter, Vice-President; Malcolm Frasier;.Chief Instructor; Larry C. Northern, President; Larry Fobb, Secretary/Treasurer.

[Wizard777]

37. Has anyone reported the CRIME?

This is a vehicular accident involving property damage. If they did not stop and give their information. This is a hit and run accident. These are somewhat serious offenses. Especially the hit and run. This should be reported to the police to send the message loud and clear. This will not be tolerated. We will fight back and we will prosecute. If you roll over on this. Next they may want to see how many protesters they can get away with mowing down.

[DirtyDawg]

38. Your didn't think 'Easy Rider' was fiction...

...do you? Just watch, these guys are gonna get worse before they stop. Maybe the deputies will arrest 'em after the fact, but they won't stop 'em. They don't really have a political agenda..they're just a bunch of good ol boys trying to impress each other - one of those, "hey fella's watch this!", kind of things. They'll come flyin' down the road, shotguns waving, mullets blowin the breeze, thinking they're doing something they can brag about back at the WalMart parking lot where they hang with the rest of their pickemuptruck buddies.

[MockSwede]

49. Darwins

Hopefully, their 'hey fellas, watch THIS!" results in runners-up positions for Darwin Awards very soon!

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. You know after some exchanges with some of these boys

here is my personal theory... it did happen... it hapepned and it was done by the same people doing it today, the flag waving god and my country is great, pick up that flag, but we won't go if we can avoid it.

Call it a sneaky suspicion but this disrespect for the troops did not start today

[Counterpuncher]

41. spitting on soldiers

Of the very few documented episodes of spat upon soldiers, many of the spitters were other vets from Veterans of Foreign Wars and other hard right organizations. try this article on for size about the whole affair: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0430-21.htm

[BQueen]

43. Interesting, thanks for the link

I remember VFW and other vets orgs not welcoming Vietnam vets onto their membership rolls because it wasn't "really" a foreign war or some such nonsense. I always felt that this was BS, since Korean War vets were welcomed, and that it probably had more to do with the fact that many Nam vets came home anti-war, or simply no longer looked like the clean-cut image the vets' organizations wanted to portray (motorcycles, long hair, beat up uniform jackets, etc.) I think many of the RW vets' organizations were the source of anger towards Vietnam vets because they "didn't win."

One thing in the article that I would hasten to correct is that soldiers DID fly into civilian airports, just not directly from in-country. I vividly recall the trip to the airport to meet my brother when he came home. ('69, maybe - I know he was there for some of the worst of it, and his primary duty was defusing home made landmines -- astonishingly, he came home physically intact, but he NEVER talks about it.) Oh, no spitting, btw.

I also remember his pleading with my other brothers to do anything they could to stay out of it. (One ended up in USAF OCS and weathered hurricane Camille; the other got into the NG without pulling strings, and was sent into the aftermath of the Kent State shootings. They BOTH served their full committment, unlike Shrub, who was who-knows-where at the time.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. thank your brother for his service

nad welcome him home, from a military family to another... and yes tears are now running down my face, this has been a very emotional day I think

[BQueen]

61. Thanks to your family as well

It is so hard to hear about all these yahoos who seem to think supporting the troops is about watching parades and waving a little flag. I barely recall my oldest brother's absence since I was so young (big family, obviously...we span the baby boom), but the constant atmosphere of worry and fear while he was over there was so pervasive I still get goosebumps and well up thinking about it. Mainly I remember my Mom making sure we were upbeat for the tapes we made and sent to him.

He was so different after he came back. I remember his teasing me unmercifully before he went -- afterwards he didn't know how to deal with or trust kids since he'd seen so many act as suicide bombers. That and seeing people he thought he knew suddenly get excited about "killing Gooks" made him retreat from most friendships. Don't get me wrong, still one of the most wonderful men I know, as was my father....but I wonder what they would have been like but for their time in battle (Dad was sent into the midst of the Battle of the Bulge, in a Division that had well over a 70% casualty rate). I know WWII vets were told basically: 'Talk about it all you want on the ship, but not once you get home.' Can't imagine why we have to many WWII vets just exhibiting PTSD now...

Our family has had military members going back to the Revolution (yup, if I jettisoned my ethics, I could be in the DAR), and I've got a nephew due for deployment "soon". All I could think when I saw those crosses lying on the ground was how I would feel if it were his name on there. And now I'm crying because that image won't leave me. Yes, an emotional day...

[ptolle]

81. my thanks as well

As a returnee from the sun and fun capitol of southeast asia- 2Bn./12th Inf./25th Inf. Div. RVN 1966-67. My best to your brother the ordnance man those guys were real heroes to us lowly gravel agitaters. I can't testify as to the VFW or American Legion attitudes as when I got home all I wanted was to leave it all way behind, I will say that I got more grief from the conservative side of the spectrum because we were "losing" than I ever did from the "liberal" hippie side because they thought we never should have been there in the first place and were generally appreciative of someones service and it seemed to me genuinely glad that you'd made it home safe,sound, and as sane as is possible for anyone who's been through the grinder that is any war.

[BQueen]

89. And my thanks to you - welcome home and to DU

I remember when I got old enough to ask questions and found out what he did over there I was amazed he made it home and it made me finally understand the daily sense of fear in our house at the time. I guess I never realized how many people depended on his doing his job right.

I don't know my bro's unit info - just that he was near enough to the Cambodian border to be absolutely certain where the bombers were going... I will convey your regards to him -- I need to remind him that he's a hero to me, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. thans for the info and welcome to DU

[loudsue]

51. Great article! It reflects my experience, and that of my many

friends who served, and managed to come back alive... albeit, many had fewer limbs than they went over there with.

They were our heroes, and we didn't care how many limbs they had left: we'd walk with them as slowly as we needed to, as they marched on with their cumbersome canes, and we'd load and unload them out of our vans with their wheelchairs. They were back home, and that was all we cared about. :loveya:

:kick::kick::kick:

[spuddonna]

53. Cool link! Thanks, and welcome! :)

I agree that my reaction, my husband's reaction to the crosses being run down was disbelief, and anger...

I hope Camp Casey replaces the crosses and other symbols that were destroyed to show that they care about our soldiers. The memorial isn't just there for 'show'. These soldiers are our family members. They are our friends. And they are dying because King George wanted to spend his political capital...

[BikeWriter]

59. Uh, where did that article say vets were spitting on vets?

That writer's opinion is just that, his opinion. My reality is I've seen a number of incidences back then when we were treated like dirt. I see nothing in his bio that says he's a vet. I think he may be pursuing a personal agenda, though that is only my own reality.

Professor Jerry Lembcke
Department of Sociology, Holy Cross College

The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam

Jerry Lembcke is associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross College in Worcester, Massachusetts. His most recent book is The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam (New York University Press, 1998), and he is currently studying the cultural process that links public memories of Vietnam and World War II. Lembcke holds a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of Oregon; he is the author of four previous books and numerous articles on labor history and social inequality. He is active in peace and social justice issues in the greater Boston area.
http://www.rlg.org/en/page.php?Page_ID=110

[Counterpuncher]

48. top ten

whoever the hell ran over the crosses is definitely recommended for the top ten conservative idiots this week.

[Mr. McD]

50. My experience

I had spent a year in Viet Nam and went home for a 30 day leave. I was returning to Viet Nam for another 6 1/2 months. Outside the Seattle airport I was confronted by several persons not much older than myself. I was ask how it felt to spend blood money and called a few things that I won't repeat here. One guy was doing all the talking. My response was typical of a naive 20 year old who was apolitical at the time and thought he was doing the right thing. I punched the asshole. No more was said. they left, I went inside the airport. :shrug:

[ibegurpard]

56. I'm not really sure why but I love this post.

eom

[BikeWriter]

62. Welcome home, Brother. Thank you for your service.

Yep, I've been called a baby killer and murderer, too. Americans would rather go into denial, forget it, and say it never happened, but it did.

[Hekate]

57. Thank you for saying what I've been thinking

We seem to be about the same age -- college during the Viet Nam war -- and like you I've always had a hard time believing anyone ever actually got spit on. But since I started being in this century's peace movement I've met vets who believed it, and I know there must have been something in our culture at the time that made them feel as though it had happened -- if it happened to one, it happened to all.

And now this. What will our returning troops remember about what was going on in this country while they were enduring Iraq? While their friends were dying or being maimed, while they were being exposed to Depleted Uranium, while they were aquiring a lifetime of memories -- what will they remember about the climate in "the homeland" during Bush's War?

We have so much to do to restore the honor of our country, and I do mean by peaceful means at h ome.

Hekate

[Lord Kerry]

60. ?

"It's time for a change in the direction our people are being lead. It's time for a cultural revolution. It's time to clean our house here at home, and purge our country from the insanity that would lead someone to mow down the Crosses that Honor our War Dead."

Are you saying you are wanting a violent resolution?

[BikeWriter]

66. Are you fishing for a radical reply? We don't advocate violence here.

You can find that at free republic.

[loudsue]

71. No.

:kick:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

86. Peter Parker is saying he is having a headache.

[liberal_patriot_md]

63. I am a Iraq vet and . . .

a history major so I am quite interested in the similarities that this war has to the Vietnam War. One of the things that I found to be most striking in my research was about the mistreatment of returning Vietnam vets, not that it occurred, but by whose hands was most damage inflicted -- by right-winger chickenhawks who attacked returning troops as "candy-ass" wimps whose cowardice lost the war.

I am reminded of that behavior as I read about this horrible act which violates the honor of fallen soldiers.

I have also experienced this kind of behavior from right-wingers who tell me that my experience couldn't be as bad as I say it was. That I couldn't have possibly been in any danger. That because I worked with prisoners I must have been involved in the abuse and torture scandals. All this from the mouths of those who claim to "support the troops."

All this makes me want to puke.

[janetle]

67. My Dad's WW2 diary as a POW...

...revealed that as a POW, they heard news from home through letters and so forth that many people assumed because they had been caught by the Nazi's, they were cowards---like they had done something wrong to be captured.

I, too, was in high school and college during the Vietnam years and I do remember the....lack of respect for those returning. They were the visible symbols of a war gone wrong. But the lack of respect was so wrong in the same way it was wrong to blame WW2 POW's for their own capture.

This is why we must remain ever vigilant to support our troops and always separate them from Bush and his ilk. They are our children and they are being used. Because of Vietnam, I see that so clearly. This is why Cindy has caught my attention and my heart.

Don't mess with our kids!

[BikeWriter]

68. Thank you, Janetle!

:-)

[StayOutTheBushes]

64. I didn't find anyone stupid enough to spit on a big jar-head but

I was treated shabbily in many places. It was very hard to get a date too but that may have been because of the short hair.

[Albert Cirrus]

65. Racist?

Maybe the driver was in the KKK and wanted to burn the crosses, but chickened out and ran them over instead.

[POAS]

70. My next bumper sticker

on my ranger pickup

"This truck doesn't run over crosses"

[loudsue]

72. LOL! Good one!

That says it all...in a nutshell!

:kick:

[SunJester]

73. Please, someone, explain to me....

Please explain to me how someone as far to the left as I am, as typically anti-war and not wildly fond of the military, how did I become the one who is sick to my stomach by this? I don't understand, and I don't like feeling like a child calling "Why?" when I'm almost 40 years old.

I'm very afraid that someone is going to get hurt. The rhetoric on the right has gotten to the point that it's perfectly ok to call a liberal a traitor, or cry treason. That's becoming more mainstream and nobody is calling them it, nobody is shouting, How DARE you! in a civilized but forceful way, how DARE you question my patriotism! How DARE you say I'm a traitor because I don't support the war, or ...

This is not the country I grew up in, and I'm ashamed to say I'm getting scared. I'm not typically reactionary, I'm pretty logical and levelheaded, but even I am getting scared.

Can anyone explain this to me, or at least tell me I'm over reacting? I need a reality check...

Thanks so much.

:scared:

[BQueen]

76. Welcome to DU SunJester!

I wish I knew the answer...I've cut off contact with people who claimed to be my friends because of those types of behaviors. (One told me to move to Iraq if I hated my country so much, the other termed me a "religious bigot" because I objected to John Asscroft being anointed into office and hosting daily prayer meetings.) It cuts me to the quick to think that anyone who claims to care about me would be willing to discount any opinion/information I brought up simply because I am that most dreaded of things: an avowed liberal (and one who always felt goosebumps raise and tears well on hearing the National Anthem).

You could easily be describing me with your stance on war and all things military, even though my posts above delineate a heritage of military service (I did the civil service end). What makes us weep is the realization that the last shreds of anything that these idiots claim to respect is totally gone. If they are willing to attack symbols of those who died (or support those who do) in the war they avidly support, is there anything that is truly beneath them? Is there anything that they cannot rationalize doing to perpetuate their denial that "daddy" (bush) is actually abusing them and all of us?

I mentioned above that all I could think of when I looked at the pics was how I would feel if it were my nephew's name on one of those crosses (he hasn't deployed, yet). It would break my heart all over again.

But, individuals are saying "How DARE you?" and we have to bring the MSM along (slow learners, aren't they?) Go watch this video, it's inspiring. http://www.thebattleforamerica.com

What do we do? We muster our courage and say "Enough! We're taking our country back!"
edit for typo

[SunJester]

97. Thank you, BQueen!

This whole thing, I mean, the war and all that's going on here, is bringing up so many dichotomies in me.

I mean, I'm a liberal, but certainly not a pacifist, and while I am not wild about the military as it actually is, I like the IDEAL of what it SHOULD be, I mean, all that stuff about Honor and Dignity. I also have a long family history of service, going back to the Civil War, and a brother in Iraq right now. I'm an atheist, but the image of the crosses being desecrated makes me sick...

I guess archetypes are powerful.

"What makes us weep is the realization that the last shreds of anything that these idiots claim to respect is totally gone. If they are willing to attack symbols of those who died (or support those who do) in the war they avidly support, is there anything that is truly beneath them? Is there anything that they cannot rationalize doing to perpetuate their denial that "daddy" (bush) is actually abusing them and all of us?"

Yes! That is what I was laboring to say, exactly! Thank you for putting it so succinctly. THAT is why I'm scared.

Sorry to be so long winded, everyone. I'm afraid my brain has too much to process right now!

I will check that link. I need a boost.

[BikeWriter]

82. I was told I'd be stood against a wall and shot...

when the "righteous" take over the country. I'm a veteran of the '68 Tet offensive, and I've been called a traitor. Not to my face though. :)

[Joey Liberal]

75. Republicans hate the military and love only themselves

God, how low can the right wingers get? The mocking of the Purple Heart was bad, but this..............

[loudsue]

78. I agree, Joey. That Purple Heart "band-aid" at the neocon convention

was a slap in the face to the men & women who have died, or given body parts, in the military, following orders from the powers that be. Then, those very "powers that be" MOCKED them for their sacrifices!! To me, that is OUTRAGEOUS! And now, they mow down CROSSES, Honoring our War Dead. A line has been crossed, and it's time to call a halt to it.

That's what I meant in my original post: This country needs to stop and take a long hard look at ourselves, and our structure of media/power, and make some hard changes.

AMERICANS, no matter which party: we need to stop, and start a dialog among ourselves, and at least talk about the division that would bring about a "mowing down of A Memorial To Honor Our Dead Soldiers", just out of spite for politics. ANYONE, who cares about our country, can see that THAT is just plain wrong. And that this nonsense has gone on long enough.

I don't hate my fellow Americans. I love my country. I love some people, as individuals, who happen to be who we call "freepers", in their ideology. We need to appeal to that relationship in the heart of other Americans, and go against the trend of "news-speak" that is flaming the fires of division that could lead us to kill or harm one another....or to deface a Memorial to our Fallen Soldiers.

:kick::kick::kick:

[cthrumatrix]

94. actions speak louder than words...they have "others" to fight their wars

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

79. Some how the guy's actions don't surprise me

Per shabby treatment of veterans by the right one should read how our troops returning from WWI were treated by the then Republican congress. It was a national disgrace.

[volitionx]

83. How Does Bush Feel About This Incident?

Did Bushbaby make a statement about the desecration of these crosses?

Not that I heard.

Typical fascist bullshit.

The fuckwits aren't REAL Republicans, and they aren't REAL Christians, either, although they claim to be both.

We need to PURGE our country. I know that reminds many people of Stalinism, but if anyone's like Stalin, it's the neocons, not the lefties. Sorry, but although I'm for "diversity", I'm not for having fascists living in my country and CERTAINLY not occupying my government.

This country is so amazingly immature. Just look at our "president" and his supporters. They all look like little children. Hell, my father's one of them, so I know what I'm talking about.

We HAVE to create a cloud of shame around EVERY neocon. We have to make sure that there is so much shame involved in being one of these fascist assholes that nobody wants to be one.

Like I say, it's just like the "Good Germans" who went along with Hitler. What's the difference? Instead of the Holocaust, we have Herr Bush trying to take over the whole fucking planet with a Global Corporate Empire, AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO TAKE THIS DAMN SERIOUSLY.

Things will get WAY worse before they get better. Just watch!

[Dees]

84. I was not spit on or called "baby killer".

I never experienced that kind of hatred. When I returned in 1966 after a full combat tour I attended a major state university. Even the most radical, die hard opposition to the war at the university were truly interested in my experiences and what it was like. Many thanked me for my service and admitted they would not have had the courage to do what I did. Eventually I opposed the Vietnam war as did many of my fellow vets. I hoped I could add an authentic voice to the movement. I was sent to Vietnam and did what I was told to do. No more...no less. Most people understood that.

[loudsue]

85. Welcome home!

It sounds like you went to school with the same kind of people that I went to school with, and who I worked with against the Vietnam war. The great majority of the vets I knew WERE against the war in Vietnam. They knew that the politicians were holding them back from being able to do all that they were trained to do. And in reality, it was because they didn't want our soldiers to "WIN"...they merely wanted our soldiers to fight.

War is big business for many, and the object of business is to make a profit. Halliburton is a prime example. And it pays the way for many a politician on the campaign trail.

It's time Americans stopped that nonsense. Our troops are REAL PEOPLE, with real families, and real lives. And they deserve better.. much, much better than to be lied into a war.

:kick::kick::kick:

[DixieDem]

90. Thank you for sharing that!

I had many friends that were drafted. They didn't want to go, but they did. I protested the war, but I NEVER, NEVER, EVER spat on or belittled one of our soldiers. Good grief! They were my friends!!!

I'm starting to believe that the "dems spat on me" phrase was made up or it was overly exaggerated. I was very much anti-war at the time and I can't recall ANYONE that ever took it out on our soldiers. We just wanted our friends back home... just like we do now!

[bluestateguy]

87. I remember in high school meeting some Vietnam veterans

I was 16 and I asked them if all the stories were true about them being "spat on" by Americans upon their return home. One man told me that he was spat on in a rhetorical sense, but not by a liberal protestor. He told me he was dressed down by a right wing war hawk who criticized him for being the "first Americans to lose a war", and that he "let America down by losing.

[UCSBLiberalCat53]

88. Well you know...

the pundits will say that the man was outraged at the "blatant exploitation" of the symbol of the Cross that he had to save the Crosses by destroying them, kind of like how you have to ceremonially burn the flag if it gets dirty or whatever. All that talk of Jesus and the Cross goes out the window when party politics comes into play. The Republicans aren't just disloyal to the country if party interests call for it, they'll spit on Jesus too.

[burrowowl]

91. I protested during the VN War

and never blamed a soldier, nor spit on any.
I protested that Fascist/Corporatist U$ was responsible or as it was call then the ESTABLISHMENT!

[Paradise]

95. Allow me to say, sincerely...

You're beautiful when you're angry! :thumbsup:

[tlsmith1963]

96. It's Not a War on Terror...

...it's a War on Liberals. And it's been going on for a long time. We need to see this. This hatred against us is not normal hatred. These people on the far-Right have been brainwashed for so long that I feel they are no better than al-Qaeda. They have violence in their souls. This is why I am concerned about Cindy S. & the others.

Tammy