ACLU Statement 8-16 Re: Abu Ghraib FOIA Odyssey

[Warren DeMontague]

(emphasis added. -i)

http://www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=18921&c=36

Following a two-hour closed hearing in New York on August 15, a federal judge ordered the government to reveal blacked-out portions of its legal papers arguing against the release of images depicting abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib. The government has until August 18 to make the currently redacted statements public, or to appeal the decision.

The court will next hear arguments on August 30 to determine whether the Defense Department must release 87 photographs and four videos depicting abuse and torture at Abu Ghraib. After unsuccessfully invoking the Geneva Conventions to block the release of the images, the government is now citing a legal provision that permits the withholding of records "compiled for law enforcement purposes," that "could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual."

In a friend-of-the-court brief submitted in the case, The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press and several media outlets and associations, including CBS Broadcasting, NBC Universal, The Hearst Corporation, The New York Times Co. and the American Society of Newspaper Editors, object to "the government's misdirected effort to undermine the by asserting, in essence, that its own misconduct has created an indictment too damning for the public to see." Read the brief at

http://action.aclu.org/torturefoia/legal/amicus080305.pdf.

[marmar]

1. Whatever is in these photos....

must be really, really horrific.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Rumor is small boys being sodomized.. rape of girls and women too

[BlueEyedSon]

5. And approval/orders go all the way to the top.... nt

[Melodybe]

8. Seymour Hersh will be on the Daily Show tonight to talk about what is in

them.

[marmar]

10. Cool...

I'll be watching.

[moodforaday]

12. Please post a brief report

I only get CNN International, and they don't broadcast The Daily Show um, daily (only a weekend edition).

[Warren DeMontague]

13. No shit?

Better TIVO that one.

[lonestarnot]

15. eeeewww waiting up!

[seabeyond]

20. senate looked at it all. they came out disgusted and shaken

repugs too. some had to walk out they couldnt stomach them

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Are any INTERNATIONAL orgs asking for the release also?

[Geoff R. Casavant]

4. Utter BS

The photos, etc. were not compiled for law enforcement purposes -- they were compiled by participants in the torture. NCIS agents did not take the photos.

As for endangering the life or safety of an individual, I'd like to see how they parse that one, and explain why pixelating the faces won't solve the problem.

[redqueen]

I think they mean...

that if the world saw the photos, that it would endanger our troops and civilians abroad, so horrific are the images. Riots, attacks, etc. would increase due to outrage.

IMO they're just doing it to protect Rumsfeld & other higher ups who sanctioned the torture.

[lonestarnot]

16. Precisely! Keep watch'n 'em!

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. what they are afraid of are riots,

in Peoria

[BQueen]

21. No kidding!

Wasn't the whole point of declaring the "War on Terra" that they didn't just prosecute these as criminal cases like those wimpy libruls?! And invoking the Geneva Conventions when they've been arguing tooth and nail that they don't apply? (and had Roberts in place to rule that they didn't)

good grief! Don't they get whiplash when they switch from one extreme to the other so quickly?

[Tigress DEM]

22. Separately, yes you are correct.

However, as a collective set of evidence in this particular hearing - whose Judge is asking that they be revealed.... see how thin a line they tread?

Maybe they are just worried that this awful, horrible stuff will cause such an uproar that Americans will be killed on sight simply for being of the same nationality as the scum who committed these crimes.

Maybe they fear that the lynching as a federal crime will not stop the people from over running the offices of all officials involved and hanging them out in the open air. Of course, that is because they project their ways on us. We want them to face the music, go to court, be tried and found guilty and do the time... so they have time to think about what horrible mistakes they made... and how much suffering they caused.

[me b zola]

6. Thank you for posting

I have been meaning to go to the ACLU's website to see what happened yesterday, but I kept putting it off.


Eek. Fifteen more days. :(

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. It's time to leak the friggin photos

Sy Hersh wrote about a second disc that a soldier him gave that has pictures we've never seen. Plus before Abu Ghraib was exposed the troops were passing around discs of all sorts of pics supposedly. These pics need to find their way to the Internet. The world needs to see exactly what these war criminals that have taken over our country are allowing.

[Just Me]

19. I have to agree because the administration is avoiding responsibility,...

,...by abusing the legal system, dragging this situation out for a ridiculous period of time. God, I still cannot fully fathom the evilness of this American dictatorship. It's simply,...inconceivable to me that my own country is being exploited in such horrendous ways.

[Tigress DEM]

23. Be patient, it only underscores their guilt....

like Shakesphere said, "I think he protesteth too much." Get the word out... go to restuarants and talk about this as if you don't think Republican's around you are listening.

Common sense tells people that this behavior is done to conceal lies. If they overhear it in an honest conversation, it gets passed quicker, even if they disbelieve it - it rankles them, but they will pass it on. Some even among the brainwashed will understand.

This Judge isn't taking any BS and they have enough rope to hang themselves. Think they want the redacted information in order to get at the higher ups .... if we can point this all the way to the top then we have our WMD to justify IMPEACHMENT. We have reasons, but this is big. Proof of real TORTURE in OUR NAME when they LIED and said it wasn't being done except by a few on their own.

We need to get as many of the higher ups as possible with evidence that will stick to them like they had been locked up to their necks in a box of shit for a week in the hot Texas sun. We need this evidence to stick to them like they will never be able to wash enough to feel clean ever again.

[Sgent]

11. So

are these Abu Grab photos of suspects?

If so, shouldn't the suspects be given the full rights and privlidges under the constitution?

Bush admin is barking up the wrong tree here.

[lonestarnot]

17. The only tree for bushitler is the tree he's already cut down and use for

his fireplace...he got wood for brains...

[Beam Me Up]

14. .

.

[brettdale]

18. Huh?

So these court cases arent about the photos being released, but about whether SOME of the reasons the Pentagon doesnt want them to be released will be released.

They can also appeal this.

Im guessing the photos themeselves will probably be release sometime around 2009.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. THIS ruling was about the redacted arguments.

The next hearing on the images themselves is in two weeks.

Releasing the reasons is important because one surmises that they contain pretty specific reference to what is contained in the images.

Many allegations have been made about what is in there; most have been shrugged off by the right-wing punditry with "prove it".

With no pictures, yes, it's hard to prove what is there- but a government admission re: what they contain is pretty damning evidence, too.

You're right; they're playing for time, they've been doing this for two years. But the longer they do this, the more people are paying attention, and the worse it will be when the dam breaks. I remember last year, before the election, when the DoD was working very hard to make sure nothing would happen on this until 2004 was over, (wonder why.) NO ONE was paying any attention. The media wouldn't touch it. Now, 14 media groups have signed on to the amicus brief, because it's clear the government is trying very hard to cover up some bad shit, and making a mockery of the FOIA in the process.

So, stay tuned. This is a slow story, but a big one.

[wtmusic]

24. At one point there were supposedly 500 photographs

were the other ones "disappeared"?

[thecrow]

26. invoking the Geneva Conventions ......???????!!!!!!!

The US government is invoking the Geneva Conventions ?????
How quaint is that??

Attention: The cow has left the barn. Please close the door.
:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Oh, yeah, that was rich.

Of course, that was why the judge told the government to make the faces in the videos and pictures unidentifiable. At which point, they said "we need more time", and then the day before they were supposed to turn them over, they filed for this 7(F) exemption using the super-secret redacted arguments.

[Richard Steele]

27. Accept this NOW, because it's TRUE: Our Gov will NEVER release these pics.

NEVER.

Not in 2 weeks....Not in 2 years.

Not in 2012, after they have exhausted every RIDICULOUS, intelligence-insulting APPEAL they can dream up...

Not in the year 2052, when the rudely-disassembled body parts of
the entire B*shInc Cabal are no more than dust...

NEVER

The only way "we the people" are ever gonna see those
is if someone on the inside looks DEEP within themself
and finds a tiny shred of SOUL...

A shred of SOUL saying "leak them".

And whether or not THAT happens is anyone's guess;
because the ONLY thing that B*shInc actually seem to do well is:
Get rid of anyone with a shred of soul.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I'm curious as to what you mean by "accept that they won't release them"

I mean, should everyone give up? Should the ACLU pack it in with these FOIA requests and court cases?

Am I surprised by all this? No. I've been watching this story since before the election, last year. I know they are going to fight like hell to make sure that stuff never sees the light of day.

But bear this in mind: the harder they have to fight, the more ridiculous arguments they have to dredge up, the bigger a mockery they make of the FOIA, the more people start to pay attention. The more it dawns on folks, like the 14 media groups (including CBS, NBC, and the Amer. Assosc. of Newspaper Editors) that just filed the amicus brief, that there is actually a story here...

Remember, last year, when they were working overtime to make sure nothing happened before the election, the media wouldn't even touch the story. Now they're paying attention.

The longer the government delays, the more obvious they make it that they're hiding some bad shit.

I don't know if the stuff will ever see the light of day; but I do believe that the battle to release them is integral to having some accountability in our government and in the chain of command; to proving that these actions were not due to a "few bad apples" but were sanctioned in some form at very high levels, and most importantly, to making sure this kind of thing is STOPPED and doesn't happen again. Also I think the story is crucial- crucial- because IF there is any chance that the material gets out, it could serve as a wake up call like My Lai did with Vietnam. And anything that even has a shred of hope of preventing more abuse, more torture, more harm of the kind that we all suspect may be depicted in that material... really, what choice do we have but to keep fighting for the truth to prevail?

[Richard Steele]

30. You make a fine point, and I agree.

Whether we ever see the pics or not,
this fight to release them helps us and hurts the neocons;
so we should continue it with all vigor.

We have to FIGHT for the truth, even though we don't always get it.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. And I am sure they would sooner gnaw off their own feet than release them

and I, too, will be surprised if they see the light of day, (short of a leak) frankly. But fortunately the Judge seems reasonably committed to the concept of openness in government. We shall see.

Peace!