Support-O-Mania: A Crackpot Theory

[Plaid Adder]

After the mowing-down-the-crosses-in-Crawford incident I was pondering the whole "support the troops" phenomenon and it reminded me of a crackpot theory I came up with a few weeks ago about why this whole military campaign is as much of a disaster as it is.

We all know that this administration has a problem with understanding the relationship between appearance and reality, and that it is one of Karl Rove's core tenets that appearance is all you need to care about. Now initially I thought this was just cynicism, but the more I see these guys in action the more it seems to me like they actually do believe that the way you change reality is by manipulating appearances. Hence their refusal to understand the fact that it they will not in fact win the Iraq war simply by making it *look* like they're winning the Iraq war--and that in fact if they are losing badly enough it will become impossible to fool anyone about this, even the American people.

OK. I was talking about the car-magnet mania to a friend's husband while I was in London and I said that I think the real problem with Rumsfeld and his cronies is that they still really believe their own bullshit about why we lost the Vietnam War. The warhawk line on that has always been that we lost in Vietnam only because the public didn't support the war. If only the war had been popular at home, they would have been able to...I don't know, use up a hundred thousand more American soldiers, kill a couple hundred thousand more Vietnamese, deforest the entire country, and unleash enough horrific violence to have beaten the Viet Cong into submission. Instead, because of that wimpy American public who got tired of having their kids returned in body bags, and that treasonous anti-war movement who sabotaged the military effort by pointing out that it was wasteful, barbaric, and accomplishing nothing, our military couldn't REALLY pull all the stops out and show those bastards what we could do. Therefore, we lost the war abroad because we lost the propaganda war at home.

It hasn't occurred to these guys, apparently, that maybe the reason there was such a big anti-war movement at the end of the Vietnam War was that everyone except the generals could tell that we were losing.

Anyway, if you consider that a lot of the same guys are still in policy-making positions today, and you consider the contempt Bush and his key decision makers have for the "reality-based community," you can see where this leads: This bunch of morons sincerely believes that all they need to do to win the war is maintain public support for it in America. As long as they don't make the 'mistake' they made during Vietnam of 'allowing' the American public to turn against the war, they win!

This attitude is completely delusional, of course--what matters on the ground in Iraq is not how Americans feel about the war, but whether we are defeating the opposition--but it is clearly what has trickled down to the magnetic-ribbon crowd, who believe that by publicly displaying their own support for the war and thus turning themselves and their cars into mobile advertising units, they are materially assisting the war effort.

Any time a state gets into a major war there's a propaganda push. But if you compare nowadays with World War II, one thing you notice is that in general we are not being asked to 'support the troops' by doing anything. Requests for material help--care packages for soldiers at the front, phone cards for soldiers in Walter Reid, military recruiting--are not blasted through the same national megaphone that repeats the SUPPORT THE TROOPS imperative. We're not being asked to buy liberty bonds, plant victory gardens, accept the rationing of vital resources, or God forbid try to conserve fuel. Now partly that's because the relationship between this war and the economy is different from what it was in the 1940s; but maybe it's partly because the head honchos are convinced that our emotional and ideological 'support' is all this war needs. Hence the infuriating contradictions you see all the time where Young Republicans who are blasting SUPPORT THE TROOPS out of their own little boomboxes apparently never think about what they might actually *do* for the war effort until someone comes along to ask them why they haven't enlisted.

So, according to my crackpot theory, the insane intensity of people like that guy in Crawford who was so blinded by God knows what that he thought running over a memorial to fallen American soldiers was an act of patriotism derives from their belief, shared unfortunately with the people actually in charge of winning this war, that anyone who is not supporting the war is literally killing American soldiers. Because we all know that Bush and Rumsfeld couldn't be responsible for that, because that's a reality-based idea and we're in the faith-based world now, where all of our losses in Iraq are caused not by IEDs or insurgents or our leaders' criminal failure to understand basic cultural concepts that might have allowed them to put together a functional transitional government or our inability to get the power system running in Baghdad two and a half years into the war or anything like that, but by the American public's failure to clap its collective hands and say, "I believe in victory!"

Jesus, Rumsfeld, it's a war, not a production of Peter Pan. YOU started it, and YOU bastards are responsible for winning it. I have as little effect on the outcome as that guy down the street with the 50 American flags and the 100 magnetic ribbons. And you wanted it that way. Your whole "light 'n' lean war on 12 fronts" idea was supposed to make it possible to fight all kinds of wars everywhere without making the same demands on the American public that World War II made. Because you know perfectly well that if you actually ask "the American people" to make material sacrifices for a war, then you better be able to explain why it's necessary. And you can't. Which, incidentally, is why Cindy Sheehan, who actually has made a material sacrifice for your stupid war, is currently sitting by the side of the road in Crawford waiting for someone to come out and explain to her why it was necessary.

And to think, we're the ones who get accused of being unrealistic.

@#$!,

The Plaid Adder

[Systematic Chaos]

1. Just saying a quick "hello" before I read your post.

I haven't noticed you around here in a while. I realize you don't know me, and may not even recognize my screen name, but it's nice to see your posts again. :hi:

[progressoid]

2. Hmmm...looks like somebody needs a bigger ribbon

[Plaid Adder]

4. That's hilarious.

Yellow ribbon magnets are like condoms, I guess--you don't order them in "small."

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[Systematic Chaos]

5. Those damn ribbons are all I see on SUV's at work.

The department heads at my workplace are just so transparent.... :(

[LizMoonstar]

11. omg do they sell those? i want one!

[progressoid]

13. Sure!

http://www.supportourribbons.com/maker.php?PHPSESSID=45f40803d3a6f068c708c61d4d7a4f2a

Or make your own!

[Plaid Adder]

39. Thank you for that URL. It will provide me with hours of entertanment. n/t

[KarenInMA]

20. or this one...

<>

[CrownPrinceBandar]

23. I like this one I made at that site...........

it incorporates two of the most annoying car decorations in one:

[Horse with no Name]

3. If you remember in school

"The cool kid" would be walking along and stumble. He'd turn to the closest "uncool kid" and berate him for making him fall and then proceed to be indignant about the entire matter. Or the kid who gets his hand caught in the cookie jar and with a mouth full of chocolate chips still can tell his mom "What cookie?"
With Cindy, she is pointing the finger at Bush telling him this is his fault. He is pointing back and saying "No it's not".
What is all comes down to is personal responsibility and accountability of none of these criminals have either.
They can't look at the American people and show the human side and say, "You know what, I fucked up, but here is how we need to fix it" nor can they say "I am sorry". Hallmark traits of a sociopath.
1. There is a problem. 2. I am not responsible.
Our country will continue it's decline until the majority of the population is in agreement that we have a problem at the highest levels of government.

[donkeyotay]

42. It all comes down to taking responsibility and accountability

There is a seamless shift taking place - the Right is getting over its embarrassment about being wrong to instead sanctioning, ritualizing anger at the Left for being right. Instead of reflecting on where and how they went so wrong, they are going to rechannel their energy into pretending that everything would have been fine, if only the liberals had supported the Preznit.

[evilqueen]

6. Vietnam

Robert McNamara wrote an excellent book ("In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam") about what was going on in the upper echelons of LBJ's government during the war. It's essential reading to anyone who wishes to truly understand why that war was a failure. Point being, even if we had thrown every single WMD we had at Vietnam, the North Vietnamese and their supporters in China and Russia could still bring in enough material supplies and soldiers from various supporting countries to continue the war indefinitely. McNamara spent a good amount of time proving this to the top Generals in charge, as well as LBJ, all of his efforts to open ceasefire talks and negotiations to end the war were sabotaged in one way or another, and since no one would listen to him, he finally ended up resigning from his job.

Vietnam was an unwinnable war, a quagmire. So is Iraq.


*edit for typo

[Dora]

7. Excellent. Well put.

Outraged, and cogent.

:applause:

[Junkdrawer]

8. Bumper Sticker Wars: How about white cross bumper sticker magnets...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4361593&mesg_id=4361593

[Sydnie]

9. That is a great idea!

If they had Casey's name on them, even better. I really like that idea!

[eridani]

10. Vietnam was, and Iraq is, "winnable"

The only catch is that genocide has to be on the table as an option.

[vickitulsa]

24. Yep; and a scorched earth policy as well.

With all the guilt so many Americans still feel about nuking Japanese cities to end WWII in the Pacific earlier rather than later and saving possibly up to a million American soldiers' lives, it's not likely the U.S. public would stand for such drastic measures.

It's quite possible, come to think of it, that our nuking of two major population centers in Japan also saved Japanese lives, if you follow through the alternative military actions to their logical conclusions. I mean, if a U.S. Naval blockade on the home islands of Japan did not cause them to surrender -- and I'm not sure our government could have convinced everyone involved that such a blockade should even be tried, then an invasion of those home islands was going to happen. After what our troops encountered in places sucn as Tinian, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa, it was clear additionally that the Japanese citizenry had been brainwashed to believe American GIs would rape, kill, and eat them; so these poor people were prepared to throw their babies off cliffs and jump after them rather than surrender to the United States Armed Forces.

In such an invasion, it has been speculated by those who would know about such things, up to a million American service men and women could easily have been casualties. But surely we'd have to also speculate that a similarly huge number of Japanese -- both military and civilian -- would have fallen?

I guess in a sense all such speculations about WWII and Vietnam are moot, but it's not pointless nonetheless to consider them. The American public has demonstrated very clearly time and again that they will not stand for our military performing atrocities and wreaking carnage en masse and over time, even in countries or regions we consider our diehardiest and most dangerous enemies. American citizens were even willing to accept our "backing out" or just leaving the Vietnam "conflict" in 1973 under Nixon's poorly crafted "peace with honor" program instead of either committing the mass slaughter necessary to win there OR continuing the level of fighting that had been going on for 8 years endlessly into the future.

And so much of what you said, Plaid Adder, about the Vietnam lessons is absolutely true. Ditto your primary assertion about the Bush administration's reliance on an "appearance is everything" approach in Iraq.

Ah, Cindy is holding her morning news conference right now -- I have to listen to this.

More later ... this is an excellent thread!

[meganmonkey]

12. And another fabulous post by the Plaid Adder!!!

Bravo :applause:

[elehhhhna]

14. It's worse than you think, Plaid...

These bufoons not only misunderestimate Joe America, they predicted that the IRAQIS would ALSO jump on the Peance-Freance Wagon! Consider that assumption for a moment. Sublime idiocy.

Their contempt for us is unbearable. Their disgust for We The people (American, Iraqi, Iranian, Somalian, etc.) is palpable.

The present Administration is advised by codgers of the generation that worshipped Leona Helmsley, Mike Milliken, assorted Sultans & Princes and a host of badass super-rich lying greedy above-the-law slimeheads. Republicans in general emulate the values of their idols.

time for regime change

[dutchdoctor]

15. very well said.

The yellow ribbon waiving crowd are beginning to realise a fact that the rest of the world already know for a few years: American troops staying in Iraq equals losing the war, because almost everyday they remain there results in the death of another soldier.

True American Patriots want this pointless occupation and this unwinnable war ended, so the army can go back to doing its real job: defending the country.

edited to say: nominated!

[PurgedVoter]

16. The right has a total disconnect on this one.

I don't think this is a crackpot theory at all.

They are seeing the 'Stay on course, we must win, what message are we sending.' and are thinking that our leaders will win because that's how movies end.

Fact#1
Our well advised and advising military had examined their data and were strongly advising against the war before it was started.
(Meaning, military studies and models do not support the probability of our success.)

Fact#2
Daddy Bush did not follow through on the war because he felt it was ill-advised.

Fact#3
The Neocon theory of warfare was that we could defeat other nations with a small swift advanced force, and then hold it with a skeleton crew. Using modern weapons and tactics we could easily maintain several wars at once. (They have shown that we can destroy the infrastructure of a nation and take hold of critical resources. They have not shown in anyway that neocon can manage or build a functioning economy.)

Facts#4
Rove is a destroyer of political truth, he never lets an issue resolve on it's own merit.
Bush has always found a way to make a sneaky deal for profit. Apart from that he has destroyed everything he has touched.
Cheney is a pure war profiteer.
(Our leaders are out for themselves, they will never make a hard decision that does not involve how much profit they can personally make.)

Fact#5
The hearts of Iraq are now fighting against foreign ownership, looting and rule. The violence in Iraq is now supported by people for patriotic motives instead of just desperation or religious intolerance. (To win, we will have to redefine victory since we would have to throw out every ethic that creates society.)

These facts support an even stronger theory than the one you stated.
To support the 'War' in Iraq as it currently exists, you have to have convenient morality and selective intelligence. We can expect those who continue to strongly support Bush without reservation, to display more and more dysfunction and disconnect as time progresses.

[vickitulsa]

31. Oh how veru well said!

As someone put it on a thread I read somewhere here at DU in the last two days, such increasing dysfunction and disconnect are the hallmarks of a sociopathic personality. Some might say a psychopathic personality.

I think both terms apply.

I guess I'm a real odd duck on the magnetic ribbon front. In fact, I know I am because I haven't seen what I display on my car on another single vehicle, period -- not in the whole time since this "ribbon war" began. What's on my car is a black and white POW/MIA ribbon, magnetic now since they wear so well and can be clearly seen and even read from other cars. I've displayed the stark stickers and flags of this cause for many years; they also show the silhouette of a soldier with a bowed head, as one forgotten in a foreign prison.

So when I saw one done in a magnetic version, almost covered up down at the bottom of a display of yellow and stars-and-stripes ribbons located at the checkout counter of my local Army surplus store, I had to get it. For awhile after our troops were sent into Iraq, I also had a yellow ribbon -- not magnetic but actual ribbon -- tied to my car antenna at the base, and a tiny U.S. flag strapped to the top of it as my mother has done for literally decades, showing her patriotic colors (and unexpectedly helping her locate her car in parking lots as she grew old).

But I couldn't take it any more ... the very thing you're ranting about in this thread, Plaid Adder. SUVs, mega-pickups and hummers that require the crude oil from Iraq in order to continue being affordably drivable displaying all those yellow and flag-colored "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" mag ribbons. I think the disconnect there is ironic as hell and it must totally escape the occupants of those vehicles.

So why do I display the POW/MIA emblem? Well you see, I literally "inhabit" a very large veteran community online, most of them Vietnam veterans because that is my age group and that was "my" war as well as theirs. I lost my daughter due to that war, and it ruined my life, much as Cindy Sheehan has said her life has been ruined by her loss of Casey. My daughter didn't die fighting, but I lost her all the same, and it is devastating beyond imagining. She was my only child.

I continue to "fly" the POW/MIA flag-ribbon because we haven't yet made certain every single American soldier from the war in Vietnam has been brought home! It's as simple as that; and I keep hoping others seeing my POW/MIA ribbon will wonder why I display THAT one and maybe, just MAYBE they will think about what it signifies, not just for the Vietnam-era folks but right now.

Cindy Sheehan would have preferred to be doing ANYTHING other than what she is having to do right now. But losing a child for a cause that is built on LIES is about the hardest and bitterest pill one can be forced to swallow.

Still, SHE has not become psychopathic as a result. *She* has remained very rational and compassionate -- traits which show every day when she speaks. And she decided back when GWB began his 5-week vacation at Crawford, NOT in my view to begin a grassroots movement that would turn the tide of public opinion and inaction about the war in Iraq but to take a stand as one grieving mother who wants some straight answers from the one man who is ultimately responsible for her son's needless sacrifice of his life. She was one woman camped out in a tent, as close as she could get to W's luxurious vacation home on the range. Right?

The reason her cause grew as it did and has now become something else entirely from what it was when it began is that she is the real thing, and people can tell it. Her cause is righteous, and it speaks to the consciences of so many out there who have not previously heard a voice they could so wholeheartedly rally around to fight against the continuation of this insane profiteering war, this oil war.

I firmly believe that everything Plaid Adder said in his laying out his not-so-crackpot theory is spot on and will prove out as such in the near future.

Oh, and when I tuned in to the Sheehan news conference in progress, it was just in time to hear an Iraq veteran and member of Veterans For Peace say that he felt more "real support" from the people surrounding him there at Camp Casey than he did from all the cars with "Support Our Troops" ribbons on them! Talk about an ironic coincidence......

[Arkansas Granny]

17. A thought came to me last night. Whenever liberals mention

Iraq and Vietnam in the same sentence, we are told by the powers that be that there is no similarity. However, when anyone protests the war they are quick to point out that we will lose in Iraq "just like we did in Vietnam" and it will be the fault of all those liberal protesters. so the comparison is only valid when made by those who support the war in Iraq.

[lildreamer316]

18. The nail is complaining

that you hit it on the head too hard.

[underpants]

19. Pre-war ~60% said "Don't go it alone" NOW 60% not happy with war

at least the way it has been (mis)handled.

Basically nothing has changed.

[msmcghee]

21. "Believing their own bullshit" is the money phrase . .

. . in your missive. In all my dealings with the true believers (political, religious, whatever) over the years that's the one phrase that always so accurately describes their mindset. I have often used it as in "You know, your problem is that you actually believe your own bullshit".

Of course, the truth of it does not register with them. They just give you that blank stare. But, it's a psychological thing. It's a defense mechanism. If you put your hands over your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears - you can believe anything you want about how good and righteous you are and how wrong and immoral everyone else (in the reality based community) is.

Conservatism is really a pathological form of immaturity IMO - a refusal to accept reality as it is and deal with it intelligently. Your phrase "Believing their own bullshit" captures it perfectly.

[Beetwasher]

22. To Some Degree This Is True, But The Flaw In Your Reasoning Is In Assuming

incorrect motives for Bushco.

You assume Bushco's goal is/was victory in Iraq. I don't think that's the goal. The goal is chaos. Under the guise of chaos they can do all sorts of things, like funnel billions to their accounts in the Cayman's through Halliburton and rob the US Treasury.

This is NOT a fuck up for Bushco. They are achieving exactly what they wanted to achieve. They knew they didn't have enough troops to secure Iraq but they didn't care. They never bought their own bullshit, they knew they wouldn't be able to win with their plan, but winning was never the goal. Stealing the funds from the US Treasury was the goal, that and building permanent military bases (safe houses) from where they can stage other smash and grab operations in the area.

This was a smash and grab operation from the get go and they never had any idea otherwise, IMO. Any fuckup that earns you billions of dollars is a fuckup you can be sure will happen again and again, or it really isn't a fuck up at all, but only designed to look that way.

[msmcghee]

25. I'm not so sure.

They believe (the bullshit) that economic good times for all comes from lowering taxes for the rich - both domestically and globally. It is a central pillar of their false belief system. It is a mantra.

They also believe (the bullshit) that democracy and free market economies can be imposed through military force. After all, God is on their side as He was certainly the fag-hating, capitalist entrepreneur of the Holy Land and would have brought strip malls to the world 2000 years ago had he not been betrayed by the Jews - as Pat Robertson's bible so vividly shows.

They came into power with their light heads spinning with visions of glory and world domination that would ensure their reign for decades to come. They neo-cons were going to show us how global power management was supposed to work. But in a few short months they were already facing the ugly reality and Bush's polls were in free-fall. 9/11 was the golden opportunity for them to pull out all the stops in pursuit of their God inspired end-times fantasy.

Believing they were cleverly attempting to impose chaos in order to steal oil gives them far too much credit. Bush and his fellow ideologues don't come close to the intelligence of the James Bond villain you imagine. Or, more accurately, their belief system (in their own bullshit) prevents them applying their intelligence effectively. Hence, the total fuck-up their policies have turned into.

[Plaid Adder]

28. With all due respect to Beetwasher,

I gotta say I'm with you on this one. I used to think that this was all a diabolical plan and they were just lying to us about what they wanted to get out of it. Now, I think they actually buy their own line of crap, which is actually MORE terrifying.

You could see this as soon as the post-invasion phase started. I kept thinking, "They've got to know we're not going to be welcomed as liberators. That's just classic imperialist bullshit. They must have some other plan for the post-invasion phase that they're not telling us about."

But no. Being welcomed as liberators WAS THEIR PLAN.

I suppose it's possible that they deliberately fucked this war up, but I think that actually gives them more power and omnipotence than they have shown themselves to have. The ONLY things this crowd can do right are manipulate American public opinion, plunder the public coffers, and rig voting machines. At everything else they've tried to do, they stink.

Ah well,

The Plaid Adder

[Beetwasher]

33. I Don't Know, You Don't Have To Be Brilliant To Do A "Smash and Grab"

The smart jewel thief is the one who gets around the alarm system and doesn't leave a trace after the job...The amateur smashes the plate glass window and runs.

Bushco. is like the latter jewel thief. It's not brilliant, it's mere thuggery. You just have to have absolutely no conscience or morals whatsoever, and that fits them to a "t".

By ascribing and ideology to their actions I think you give them too much credit. It assumes that they really thought, in the long run, they were acting in the best interests of the country and in a sense can almost make their actions honorable in some way because they have some ideals other than their naked power lust and greed. It almost excuses their behavior in that maybe they really did care about bringing Democracy to Iraq etc, but just fucked up because they believed their own lies.

The lies were all for mass consumption. They needed some cover for their smash and grab and knew they had to get the public support. IMO of course!

[Plaid Adder]

36. To pull of a smash & grab job you have to be smart enough to

1) smash and 2) grab.

Smashing, they can do. Grabbing, not so much.

I don't actually think they believe they're acting in the best interests of the country. They're clearly acting in their own best interests. What I am saying is that they are so caught up in their own delusions of grandeur that they believed that starting this war would be in their own best interests--when in fact, it hasn't been. Sure, Halliburton is making tons of money, but it's not coming from Iraq--it's coming out of our own federal budget, in a shell game that is not sustainable over the long haul. I have no doubt that oil was one of the things they hoped to get out of this; but they don't actually HAVE Iraq's oil, because they don't really control the country. The best they are able to do is prevent anyone *else* from controlling it. Getting the oil out of there in a regularized, profitable way is still far beyond their capabilities, and that's because they fucked up the planning so badly.

I don't think they were thinking of you and me when they planned this war, or America or apple pie or democracy or any of the rest of that. I *do* think that they believed they could win it, and that this would make them and their party golden in the eyes of America and the world for generations to come. Well, they've blown that. We'll see what the REAL legacy of this goddamn thing is, and we're probably the ones who will feel it the most.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Junkdrawer]

41. Google: "divide and conquer" imperialism

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22divide+and+conquer%22+imperialism&btnG=Google+Search

This one was second on my list:

http://counterpunch.org/hallinan07142004.html

[Beetwasher]

30. I Really Don't Think So

Yes, it's a mantra, but it's only for mass consumption. They know lowering taxes for the rich won't help anyone but the rich. They don't care. They never did.

The same w/ spreading democracy or whatever. These guys are criminals, not idealists. It's all about their money and power, not about spreding their ideals. Smash and grab is not some intelligent, brilliant "Dr. No" scheme. It's brute thuggery and it's right up their alley.

There might be some of these guys who are idealists, but I really think most them, especially Cheney, Rummy etc. are just thugs looking to grab as much as they can and amass as much power and insulation as they can and they will utilize whatever lie about whatever ideology is most useful for attaining those goals. Ascribing their actions to an ideology in some ways makes them almost honorable and means they do actually believe in something other than their own insane power lust. I just don't think that's the case.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree, but it's all good (or bad! ;-))!

[Fritz67]

26. Not much to say...

...other than it was a great article. A lot of insight.

[Hubert Flottz]

27. "demands on the American public that World War II made"

They've exported heavy industry, which won World War II, to save a few dollars on labor and just forgotten that huge blunder. They are living in a dream world! The Neocon Bubble is about to pop! Reality is getting ready to bite them on the ass. They have not only broken Iraq, they have broken America too.

They are idiots and being idiots, they are too ignorant to realize that they in fact are idiots. We have reached Critical Mess! The GOP has created the perpetual Idiot machine! It's the price they pay for lying and then believing their own lies. Too bad that everyone in America must pay, along with the most guilty.

[loudsue]

32. "We have reached Critical Mess!" -- That is a great line!

:rofl: ...... :cry:






:kick::kick::kick:

[vickitulsa]

34. Yes it is!

And everything else Hubert said is right on the money as well.

Instead of struggling to find the words and offering up testimony from my personal life, I should have just pointed to Hubert's post here and said: "WHAT HE SAID!"

I'm not surprised he got it so right, though. I think he knows whereof he speaks for some fundamental reasons entailing familiarity with the oil industry. That same industry for which Casey Sheehan and so many other young Americans (and some older ones too) are paying in this war with life and limb and mind, along with their families who must keep on paying with heartache for as long as they live.

Yep, I'm being reminded now of those little visual game thingies where you stare at a bunch of colored dots and see nothing but chaos, until suddenly your brain makes a connection and shifts, and BINGO!, you see the ship or the building or whatever, clear as can be.

That's what is happening RIGHT NOW among Americans, I believe, regarding the reasons for this war and what it's really all about.


Oh, and I hope ya'll will forgive my missing the typo in a subject line previously too -- "veru well said" may be clear in its intent but that's "veru" unlike this old secretary to allow it through in a final draft! :hide: :blush:

[Hubert Flottz]

35. Thanks for the kind words Vicki and Sue.

Coming from you two, those comments really are very pleasing.

Bush advertises Faith Based Government and delivers Greed Based Mismanagement. Think of the good things we could have done with the over 200 billion dollars the neocons have wasted just on Iraq alone. Think of the American families that will never be, because of the almost 2,000 soldiers that won't ever be coming back home.

These people in and around the Bush White House, have committed some monstrous blunders and it doesn't even seem to bother them at all. Bush even has the gall to brag about the things he's done to the people in this country and to people all over the world and say that he can't think of a single mistake he's ever made. If anyone speaks with Bush when he "prays", then that voice that guides his selfish, ungodly, flawed, decisions, clearly must be some kind of a damned Devil, instead any kind of a merciful God I've ever heard of.

[loudsue]

29. This thread is a result of too many people thinking sober thoughts!

Not nearly enough Kool-Aid to go around here! It is in such sharp contrast to the rhetoric we hear 24/7 from the borderline (clinical term) news media. Sobriety is an idea whose time has ARRIVED!

:hug: Plaid Adder, you have put this beautifully, in your usual hit-the-nail-on-the-head, mind-blowing style. I repeat what one poster said above: We haven't seen NEARLY enough of you around here lately! And I salute the other thoughtful, sober responses I've read so far. Great thread. Recommended!

This country has dug ourselves into a mess so deep, I really do wonder how we're going to turn the ship around before we've become a 3rd world country. If you look at the economics, the education, the manufacturing capabilities, etc., you realize that the strong underpinnings we once had as a country are no longer ours.

And I have to say it: This fault can be laid at the door of the people inside the beltway, and the REPUBLICAN PARTY, in particular. The "robber barons" have finally turned back the clock, but they over-reached a bit, and turned it back too far... back to the "old country" at the time of the dark ages. They have destroyed everything this country stood for after the industrial revolution joined forces with the labor unions and the New Deal. In the process, they have nearly destroyed the planet, by foolishly avoiding bringing the rest of the world UP with us, implementing human (and WOMEN'S) rights, consumer protections, and environmental policies that support PEOPLE, rather than corporations or corrupt governments. Rather, they imposed secondary status to other people in the world, and a mafia-style approach to foreign policy, whether overtly or covertly.

Instead of taking the high road, we have been lead by people who made slaves, puppets and hand-maidens (leading to terrorism, among other things) of other proud nations, through greed and a blatant lack of integrity; all the while, wearing the robes of the righteous. Even our "foreign aid" has been shown to be mostly a "pay-off", rather than a sober effort to build a better world for everyone.

It reminds me of those Forest Service maps on notice boards in the wilderness areas:

YOU ARE HERE (X)

And now :freak: .....what in the hell are we going to do about it? The 'morans' inside the beltway would suggest yet ANOTHER war (Iran?). That's their answer to most everything. Either that, or print some more money to steal.

I'm really at a loss. When we DID have "all the money in the world", we squandered our chance to do the right thing...to have the right vision, and follow through with it, in cooperation with SOBER leaders. Those who held the vision are and WERE at the time called "hippies", "socialists", "liberals", and we were summarily dismissed.

Now, the vision of our leaders has come down to PNAC. Still headed in the wrong direction, altogether.

[bobbieinok]

37. another on target article by Plaid Adder

incredible writing

[haydukelives]

38. Thank You Plaid Adder,

nice post and a kick ass thread. Required reading.

Kick

[The Magistrate]

40. An Excellent Piece, Ma'am!

Spot on accurate in its assessment....

[IrateCitizen]

43. Stan Goff summed up Rumsfeld's thinking best...

He said that according to classical mathematics, you can write an equation that shows how to balance a finely-sharpened pencil on its tip. However, chaos theory tells you that this is actually impossible.

Rumsfeld is behaving as a classical mathematician (complete with his obsession about "metrics"), with him and the cabal of neocons writing equations about how to balance pencils on their tips. The problem is, those expected to implement those equations in real life (i.e. the military) are subjected to the reality of chaos theory. Each time they try to follow the equation to the letter, the pencil still falls over.

I don't really find any points of disagreement with your post -- however, I think that we could go a little bit deeper in your assessment. The underlying myth that drives all of this -- both for those who are unabashed supporters of the Bush Administration, and also for the "liberal hawks" both in Congress and the population who say "we have to stay until we win" -- is the myth of American exceptionalism. For them, the only way they can view America is as a colossus astride the world. It is simply impossible for them to view their nation as just like any other nation in history, capable of the same misguided policies and atrocities, and subject to the same fate of empires as previous imperial powers. It is unfathomable to their "reasoning" that America could possibly fall like the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or what have you. They believe that America is different due to the righteousness they falsely perceive in it, that it is subject to none of these historical "rules".

What the likes of Cindy Sheehan represent to them are a challenge to this belief. Here is someone who rejects outright the myth of American exceptionalism. Here is someone who has a soapbox and is openly espousing that the war was all about control of resources. Here is someone who is saying that the United States went to war out of greed and selfishness, and that any expression of altruism was simply propaganda.

The choice these people who believe so soundly in American exceptionalism is to either consider these points -- and thereby be forced to reconsider everything they ever believed about their nation -- or to reject it violently and dismiss the messenger.

Having been someone who went through such an introspective process while still serving in the military, I can tell you it isn't an easy thing to do. It's much easier for most to reject such considerations as coming from a "crackpot" and "America-hater". For better or worse, I chose to look at things logically, and it completely changed the way I view the world and my country.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. Even the least evil of empires is still evil. (nt)

[IrateCitizen]

44. Kick!

:kick: for the Plaid Adder!

[Duer 157099]

45. Speaking of slogans, how about this one:

"Support the Troops - Return your TAX CUTS to the Government"

[Raksha]

46. It's called "magical thinking."

A common delusion of wingnuts and small children.

[zippy890]

48. Great post -- I had some similar

thoughts regarding the neocon Vietnam antiwar-protest obsession. I think a lot of those power hungry politicos are doing the Iraq war 'My country right or wrong' speech as a direct result of there inability to honestly process what went on during the Vietnam war.

They are hashing out long-simmering distorted bitterness over Vietnam, Nixon's impeachment and disgrace - and wreaking havoc in Iraq & this country, indeed the world, as a result.

From your post, my emphasis:
"Instead, because of that wimpy American public who got tired of having their kids returned in body bags, and that treasonous anti-war movement who sabotaged the military effort by pointing out that it was wasteful, barbaric, and accomplishing nothing, our military couldn't REALLY pull all the stops out and show those bastards what we could do. Therefore, we lost the war abroad because we lost the propaganda war at home."

Excellent points!