A socially accepted bigotry.. is still bigoted cruelty

[undergroundpanther]

A new generation of insults

By Selicia Kennedy-Ross
Staff Writer

Fatso.

Bubblebutt.

Big fat seal.

Tell the overweight and obese children who are called these names that words will never hurt them.

Harassed at school and sometimes even by authority figures, these children often are left feeling powerless and depressed. Even suicidal.

What starts as bullying on the playground can end with discrimination in the workplace - even at the hospital by medical staff, studies show.

http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2845857,00.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Orrex]

2. And how atheists are treated pretty much everywhere.

We are all bigots and victims of bigotry.

[etherealtruth]

6. You are correct

...It's time we all put an end to it. Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry ... because I feel I've been a victim, to some form(s) of it, DOES NOT give me license to do it to others.

Change starts with me!

[ClassWarrior]

7. Amen.

NGU.

[grauch]

4. How about...

any kind of Christian.

[undergroundpanther]

9. who invented the notion gluttony is sinful?

And tied personal moral failure to being fat?

Puritans?
And what religion were puritans?

Something to think about since you all put religion into this thread.

[geek tragedy]

39. In ancient times when there were limited food resouces, you bet

that gluttony was a sin.

Gluttony, by definition, is a vice.

[undergroundpanther]

8. What does this have to do with religion?

I am speaking of fat phobics here. Our culture is a fat hating culture.. And fat hating is not seen for the hate it really is yet. And fat people can't hide being fat to avoid persecution .If an atheist or Christian wants to hang out in public without persecution all they have to do is shut up about their perspectives on god or no god.A fat person can't do that they can't turn off what they are by shutting up about their opinions and beliefs,nor can a black person,a trans person or gay person.Religion is a choice it is only in the mind and heart and visible to others when you talk about your beliefs,otherwise you are another person..Being fat black or gay it is what you are and it shows on your body and how you move.And Bigots target it regardless of what you say.

[ClassWarrior]

10. Nothing. I thought it was about bigotry.

So are you saying that it's okay to be bigoted against a person based upon personal characteristics that can be hidden? In other words, you have no problem with being bigoted toward someone who doesn't, say, "look Jewish?"

Nope. Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry, as another astute poster said.

NGU.

[lukasahero]

12. Funny, I read the article and thought it was about overweight children

Did you read the same article I did?

[lukasahero]

11. Thank you!

I was just asking myself the same question.

I'm so tired of the "but _________ have troubles too!" rebuttal. Good god people, can't you have some empathy and understanding for people who might actually have it worse in this world than you do?

undergroundpanther, I've been seeing the issue of "fat" (I hate that word) bigotry come up more and more in mainstream print - hopefully that's a sign that somewhere (obviously not here) it is starting to sink in that bigotry is bigotry. It's damaging. It's hateful. And it's wrong.

[ClassWarrior]

14. I never said "but" anything. I said "and."

I repeat what another astute poster said: "Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry."

You're doing exactly what you're condemning. You seem to feel that the arguement against "fat bigotry" (to use the OP's terminology) is somehow diminished by discussing other forms of bigotry, or bigotry as a whole.

I differ. I feel the arguement against each type of bigotry is strengthened when we recognize bigotry for the inexcusable hatefulness that it is, no matter how it's wielded.

NGU.

[Scout]

17. if you want to talk about religious bigotry, then start a thread about

it. Don't try to derail this thread about fat prejudice.

Yes, bigotry is bigotry is bigotry ... but right now, right here we are discussing bigotry against fat people.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Wow. And you're not even joking...

I didn't think I was derailing anything. I thought I was adding to the discussion.

NGU.

[hfojvt]

13. only in the mind and heart

and nobody really needs either of those. Is that what you are saying?
For some reason atheists feel persecuted when they see signs that say "Jesus is Lord" on other people's buildings and religious people feel persecuted when they see bumper stickers that say "Religion is the superstition that causes persecution".
Anyway, our culture is not so much fat hating as it is just plain hating. Almost nobody escapes. Do you think skinny guys are held in high esteem? Not unless they are really tall like Manute Boll and even then the Shaqs of the world tend to push them around. Everybody knows they would not be so skinny if they just ate like a normal person instead of like a bird, and if they bothered to work out a little. My fifth grade nephew feels like the runt of his grade at 68 pounds. I told him that I weighed 76 pounds in the 7th grade. I spent many of those years trying to gain weight before I gave it up as impossible or not worth the unpleasantness of stuffing myself at every meal.

[H5N1]

3. No doubt. We must fight bigotry of every stripe.

[ClassWarrior]

5. Agreed.

NGU.

[ernstbass]

15. Fat people and rednecks

they are fair game in this society

[geek tragedy]

16. There is a difference between obesity and being black or Jewish.

Obesity is a health concern. People shouldn't be obese if they can help it.

While no one should be subjected to any kind of disrespectful treatment, at the same time we're becoming a nation of the morbidly obese. I prefer hard feelings to hardened arteries.

[grauch]

18. So do we need to mind their business for them?

I thought we wanted less governmental control in our lives...

[geek tragedy]

21. Physical education is a part of every school curriculum, no?

Obesity is a nationwide health problem.

[Pithlet]

27. Yes

and that is completely irrelevant as far as the subject of this thread goes.

[geek tragedy]

34. No, it's not.

There's nothing wrong or harmful with being Jewish or black or gay.

There is something wrong with being obese--it's bad for your health.

Public schools have a fine line to walk--they have to be respectful of children's feelings, but at the same time they have to help kids avoid obesity.

[Pepperbelly]

37. so what is it that you are saying?

Should these children be the subject of ridicule from students and teachers alike? Is that your position?

I believe that was the complaint in the OP.

[geek tragedy]

38. No, my point is that it's almost impossible to teach people that

obesity is bad and at the same time act like there's nothing wrong with being obese

It is a much different situation than religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc etc.

And, obesity is something that can be controlled by behavior in most cases.

[Pepperbelly]

40. You really don't think that people don't know?

I know of no one who does not. You really think that is something that needs to be taught?

Or are you instead lobbying for good information regarding health risks and tips for a healthy lifestyle?

[geek tragedy]

41. Well, given the epidemic of obesity that's afflicting this country,

yeah apparently the message isn't getting through to some folks.

We teach kids about the horrors of alcohol, drugs, and tobacco, but we don't think twice about sending them to eat at McDonalds or letting them sit on their ass playing video games instead of getting exercise.

[pop goes the weasel]

22. Unless you are a doctor

acting within a confidential doctor-patient relationship or someone about to offer to personally pay for any necessary medical expenses, just keep any "helpful" suggestions to yourself. And this goes for talking to people with disabilities, too.

[geek tragedy]

33. Huh?

The fact that obesity is bad for one's health is hardly a controversial matter.

[Pithlet]

25. There is no difference.

The way you deal with a health problem is through education. But, that is an entirely separate matter. No one gets a free ride to ridicule and marginalize others simply because they perceive it is that person's fault. Every time this subject comes up, someone pipes in that this is a health problem. So? What does that have to do with bigotry? There are plenty of things we all do that are detrimental to our health. Almost no one is perfect in that regard. This isn't about people eating themselves into bad health. It's about ignorant, moronic, prejudiced assholes. It's about anyone who doesn't confirm to a physical norm is considered "fair game" by our shallow, bigoted, looks obsessed society.

[geek tragedy]

32. As I've said, no one should be treated disrespectfully treated

because of their weight.

At the same time, public schools have an obligation to help kids avoid being obese; they don't have any business helping kids avoid being Jewish or black or gay.

[lukasahero]

19. Is there anyone who wants to discuss the actual topic of the report?

"Among the findings:
• 28 percent of teachers in one study said that becoming obese is the worst thing that can happen to a person.
• 24 percent of nurses said that they are repulsed by obese people.
• Parents provided less financial college support for their overweight children than for their thin children."

People who are supposed to be teaching our children, people who are supposed to be helping the sick - this is what they said in response to a Yale U study. And oh how young it starts:

"Nick, a 9-year-old fourth-grader at Smiley Elementary School in Redlands, said he would want to date a skinny girl rather than a heavier girl because the thinner girl was more likely to have "a nicer car and place."

He also said the thinner girl would have done better in school and college because she "listened in class better" than the heavier girl."

The article discusses ways for parents to encourage their overweight children to not let the bigotry get to them. That's great as far as it goes but it should also have addressed how parents of the not overweight children should teach them that this is indeed bigotry - just like it took talking about racism and sexism - if we ever intend to begin to minimize it

[Roon]

20. I have been fat

and I have been thin. It's amazing how differently the world treats you when you are thin.

[undergroundpanther]

23. scary ain't it

Scary how this discussion was derailed wasn't it?
Yes bigotry is bigotry all of it must stop. But people this thread was against SIZE bigotry. It was to discuss Size bigotry.

And yet the idea of size acceptance scares some people so much they throw religion into a topic with nothing to do with religion.
Why? Why is size acceptance so scary?

Next isn't it true that christianity calls gluttony sinful?

And the way people act about size in this culture is very colored by puritanical sin phobia. I do see a connection.In pagan times the Goddess was not a skinny woman with the frame of a twelve year old. She was a heavy full figured woman the type of woman we are taught to revile in this culture, who's Constitution and civil Rights advances made against bigotry happens to be under serious threat from right wing christian fundamentalists. Coincidence?

[ZombieNixon]

26. Bigotry is bigotry, but obesity is still a societal health issue

A person can change their weight. I agree that people need to be made aware of this size bigotry/weight bigotry, whatever you call want to call it, but people also need to know that obesity, especially now, in the age of the fast food nation is a pervasive health problem. Obesity is unhealthy and cavalierly glossing over that fact helps nobody.

In fact, I've noticed that I, as a non-overweight person (18 year old male, 6 ft tall, 145 lbs, 32x34 pant size), now have trouble finding clothes that fit in department stores. About 85% of the pants on the shelves at Target or JC Penney's have the waist larger than the inseam, and some of the sizes are quite disproportional (e.g 46x32, 40x28, I've even seen 52x30, and this was in the regular men's section, not the B&T or husky section). Weird.

[Pithlet]

28. That is JC Penny's fault

for not stocking enough of your size. And is in no way a mitigating circumstance for the kind of bigotry being discussed in this thread. It is a huge pet peeve of mine that every time this subject comes up, there's the "It's a health issue...." comment. What the hell does it have to do with bigotry? THere are all kinds of health issues, and none of us are perfect.

I'm thin, and have absolutely no problems coexisting in this world with people who are a different size than I.

[ZombieNixon]

29. Neither do I, and yes, it is the store's fault

Now that I really think about it, the "health issue" deal doesn't really have anything to do with bigotry. I just think that people should be made aware of the fact that by gaining too much weight, they are probably damaging their own health. Then leave it up to them, that's all.

Also, remember that societal norms change over time. As what was once a persecuted outlier becomes the mainstream and norms of society, the "new norm" may well exercise the power of the mainstream to sideline the new outliers or "yesterday's norm." Remember the Twilight Zone episode where the "attractive" woman was "treated" for being "hideous" in the "ugly" society? The best thing to do is to encourage tolerance of personal choices and lifestyles (how much you weigh, who you choose to be your friends, what field you work in) as well as those things you can't change (race, gender, sexual orietation), and just be people. Artificially elevating one group over another inevitably leads to resentment and strife and is bad for society as a whole.

[Pithlet]

30. I'm sure that most people with weight issues understand that.

My problem with people who interject health issues into these kinds of discussions is that it propagates the idea that it rationalizes such bigotry. While I'm sure that isn't your intention, bigoted assholes who think fat people are fair game will see that and say "See! I'm right. It's their fault they're fat. If we stop making fun of them, they'll think it's okay to be fat!"

There are plenty of ways to deal with the health issues and epidemics without shaming people into being healthier. All shaming does is have the exact opposite effect. Besides, I don't buy it when people who make fun of fat people say they're doing it because it's bad for your health to be fat. I think they're doing it because they're bigoted jerks.

[geek tragedy]

36. The problem is that it's very hard to say "obesity is bad for you" without

having some reflection on people who are obese.

To illustrate the point: imagine the outrage if public schools had the official policy that being a homosexual is inherently harmful to someone, and that people should make every effort to be straight.

Same deal with smokers.

[alarcojon]

31. Yes, let's stick to the subject

Let's put two and two together:

A 1995 study by Finnish researchers at Helsinki University Hospital published in the International Journal of Obesity concluded that obese people are "subject to intense prejudice and discrimination."

A University of Minnesota study reported that 26 percent of teens who were teased at school and home said they considered suicide. Nine percent attempted it.

Conclusion - we almost certainly have an epidemic of suicidal overweight kids and teenagers in this country.

[LincolnMcGrath]

35. I would put acne sufferers right up there as well.

Knew a few classmates who had visuvian level acne. Dime size pustules from head to waist. I saw some overweight guys with dates at prom, but none of the acne vulgaris cases fared as well.