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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:43 PM
Original message
Response to a Chickenhawk
In another thread, I posted a response to a young Chickenhawk who was trying to defend his cowardice. It got a lot of attention, so I thought I would post it alone for a larger audience to see it.

I'll post here if I get a response. I doubt I will.

-ed

First, the link to his article, then my response.

Why the 'Chickenhawk' argument is un-American: Part I

Mr. Shapiro,

I just finished reading your recent article concerning "chickenhawks." I'm an Iraq War Veteran and a West Point Graduate. I left the Army with the rank of Captain, spent a year of ground combat in the Sunni Triangle, and was awarded the Bronze Star.

Your article is logically fallacious and is simply another attempt by a republican to justify his role as cheerleader for a war he refuses to fight. The fact that you are a young man of military age only makes it more disgusting.

You claim, "According to the American left, only pacifists, military members who have served in combat and direct relatives of those slain in combat or in acts of terrorism. The rest of us -- about 80 percent of voters -- must simply sit by silently. Our opinions do not matter. You want disenfranchisement? Talk to the political left, which seeks to exclude the vast majority of the American populace from the national debate about foreign policy."

That's simply wrong. Disenfranchisement refers specifically to withdrawing one's "franchise." Are you prohibited from voting or expressing your beliefs? Obviously not, since you are allowed to write nonsense such as this. No one is denying you the right to convey your right-wing diatribes. No one on "the left" has used the mechanism of law or government to deny you rights. Your victim-syndrome argument is just silly.

You go on to explain how the "left" uses ad hominem attacks, and calling those who clamor for war, but are unwilling to fight, "chickenhawks." You then say that this argument is "dishonest" because "the principle of republicanism is based on freedom of choice about behavior (as long as that behavior is legal) as well as freedom of speech about political issues."

You're exactly right. You have the freedom of choice to decide whether or not you will defend your nation in time of war. You have chosen not to, and I am equally free to judge your choice. You have chosen to sit idly by and watch better men defend your nation, even as you sit behind the comfort of your computer screen and clamor for a war you are too good to fight and die for. There's a word for people who rely on others to die for things they believe in - that word is coward. Substitute "chickenhawk" if that fits.

You go on to link this to some sort of Constitutional issue and then call people who question you "irrational." This is not an irrational argument. This is not some sort of obtuse policy issue, such as Social Security. War is something that should affect the citizens of a nation equally. Why should a few bear such a great burden? In our previous wars, sacrifice was borne by the nation as a whole. Take World War Two as the prime example of this. Imagine yourself writing your partisan article at the height of our war against fascism! What devices would you employ to justify not fighting in that war?

You finished your justification for cowardice by claiming that the soldiers fight and die for the "right of civilian hawks to speak up in favor of the highest level of moral and material support for their heroism." This final statement shows your true colors. "Supporting the Troops" goes far beyond slapping a magnet on your car or writing for a far right wing website. Moral and material support? You've got to be kidding me. My unit rolled into Iraq with no body armor, and most of our vehicles armed with nothing more than canvas. There was a point where we had to ration water! Veterans benefits are cut by your party all the time. Republicans smear real war heroes like John Kerry and Max Cleland. Members of your party even had the audacity to wear Purple Heart band-aids at your National Convention, mocking every soldier wounded on the fields of battle. Partisan hack Rush Limbaugh denounced a recent Iraq Vet running for Congress as a “staff puke.” Support? Hardly.

You say, “Representative democracy necessarily means that millions of us vote on issues with which we have had little practical experience. The "chickenhawk" argument -- which states that if you haven't served in the military, you can't have an opinion on foreign policy -- explicitly rejects basic principles of representative democracy.” Again, you’re playing logic games. You quickly change the argument from “voting” to “opinions,” another dishonest ploy. As I said above, no one denies your right to vote on foreign policy issues, or even hold an opinion. However, I have every right to denounce your opinions as invalid, because you have no idea what you’re talking about. Do you really think you know what war is like? Have you ever had blood on your effete hands? No? Then don’t pretend to know what war is like, and don’t pretend you are some sort of victim of the “left.”

In the first line of your article, you ask, “Who is qualified to speak on matters of national security?” Qualified… that’s a loaded word. It means “having the appropriate qualifications.” Mr. Shapiro, you are not “qualified” to speak about war. Perhaps if our elected officials were “qualified,” then nearly 1900 of my brothers and sisters in arms wouldn’t have been sacrificed in a war we didn’t need to fight.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Couldn't have said it better myself
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Scroll to the bottom of the page
and the link says: "How to focus like Bush". I can't remember even one incidence of Bush focusing?
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. I think that's a typo
I think it was suppose to say fuckus like bush.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. Thanks for clearing my airways, Now if I can just get the sugar
from my coffee off the keyboard ...
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well said. Take that, Shapiro.
Nominated.

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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. I spoke to young Mr. Shapiro briefly
when he filled in for one of our local right wing talk show idiots. He stated, before my call, that we where in World War III and it was the most important thing affecting the future of America. There was, according to young Shapiro, nothing more important than the war against terror and nothing more important than supporting the troops in this war.

My questions to him where, if we are in World War III and there is nothing more important in America today than the outcome of that war, why was he, Little Ben Shapiro, not signed up to fight? If he, at 21 years of age, obviously intelligent (though ignorant of much of what he speaks about), physically fit and patriotic has not signed up to defend our great land. He stuttered and hemmed and then said something to the effect of his written article. I interrupted him and asked again why, if it was so imperative that we fight this war, he has not joined. He said he was thinking about joining and hadn't made up his mind. I tried to ask him something else but he hung up on me.

He is a by product of the Rush Limbaugh generation. A chickenhawk coward through and through who hides behind the blood and sacrifice of others but claims to be a victim.

Thanks for you letter to the little yellow punk. I don't think it will do any good for him but it inspires me.

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. I became familiar with Mr. Shapiro's droppings a couple of years ago
It was something posted in the I/P forum, so I won't go into details. I found his argument racist and said so.

It's not a word I like to toss around.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. "yellow punk" Come to think of it...
yellow is the most appropriate color for those ribbons, isn't it? Matches the streak down their backs.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
54. Here's MY favorite YELLOW RIBBON
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Thanks. I would buy one of those..
and put it on my car--if I didn't know that, here in Georgia it would be "keyed," "dented," "sledgehammered," etc.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent! Thanks ed!
I truly love this description
"There's a word for people who rely on others to die for things they believe in - that word is coward. Substitute "chickenhawk" if that fits."
Right on the head.

And welcome, enjoy your adventure!:hi:
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Awesome response, _ed_.
I'm a vet too. US Navy 1981-86.

You mentioned you were a Captain. Do the Soldiers and Marines in Iraq know they've been sold a lemon about the reasons for invading Iraq?

Thanks for your service.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. Tough question
I can't speak for soldiers or marines as a whole, nor did I talk about politics when I was in uniform. I don't think it's appropriate for officers to talk to soldiers about politics, something called "undue command influence."

However, many of my fellow officers engaged me about Bush, and at least half, in my unit, did not vote for him. The illusion that all military members are Republican is nonsense.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. All you have to do with that
is look at the history record. Many in the democratic party have surved their country from Al Gore to John Kerry and Max Cleland. Many of the republicans dogged and only a few have served like McCain which makes them trashing him even more disgusting. *sigh* And I remember last December or so googling for the military voting results and only found three results and two out of the three groups had voted for Kerry. I think if Bush knew for a fact he won the military vote he would be shouting it from the rooftoops because of how Bush is. It's pretty obvious.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #47
61. If your talking about Congress it's pretty evenly split
I while back I was curious as to which party in Congress had more vets and did a search on it. I found it pretty difficult information to come by and the best list I could find was from the last Congress.

Senate
R 18 Total, 4 combat
D 15 Total, 4 combat

House
R 58 Total, 8 combat
D 40 Total, 9 combat

If someone has this info for the current Congress I would like to see it.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
66. Would you consider Rush Limbaugh on Armed Froces Radio a factor?
I am of the belief that the US military should not be a place for poiticalization. Most here disagree with me but when I was in there was no such thing. do you believe he should be on the AFR?
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. No
I also wouldn't allow any liberal personalities on AFR. I think it's really the same as a General imposing his political beliefs on troops. Since AFR is run by the military, then they are tacitly saying that Rush Limbaugh is supported by the military.

With the inflammatory things Rush says on his show, including things disparaging veterans, I really don't understand how they can justify his presence there.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. Limburger on AFR? You're joking right?
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. How DARE you use such a thing as LOGIC in your refutation?
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 08:56 PM by Prisoner_Number_Six
I only say that because the poor chickenhawk can't understand what it is...

If he were an intelligent adult, I'd say "Well argued". Alas, he'll just skip over the big words he can't understand and see the rest as an assault on his "manhood" (such as it is)... :rofl:

Thank you for your personal sacrifice on behalf of our country. I salute you.

USAF Veteran- Honorable discharge in '75.

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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
64. An officer, a gentleman,
and a brilliant essayist. I appreciate you taking him apart, point by point. You make it all so clear.
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moc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ooohh! This is most excellent!
:applause:

Thank you for your service to our country!

:patriot:
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. Killer ending! n/t
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. He has to take the offensive. It's a diversion.
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 08:58 PM by Burried News
The word Treason is in the air. He knows it. We know it. And worst of all he knows we know it. Game over sweeeet Neocon. We aren't going to discuss what you didn't do - we are going to discuss what you did do.

Just ask Judy Judy Judy WhatsaMataHari. You played a very dangerous game and losing has consequences.

End the CONfusion - the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in a court of law with Fitzgerald making the case.

Thanks for serving Capt - welcome home.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Welcome to DU ed
:bounce: :toast: :bounce:

I always ask those people, "How is it the war is important enough to send others to fight, but not important enough to fight yourself?" I've never gotten an answer.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. Outstanding!
Great letter! 10th Mountain?
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. Nope
4th ID, Fort Carson.
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank you!
This is the sort of response we have been looking for. How many more servicemen/women are out there who can speak/type as eloquently as you do? We need you and any others who have witnessed this illegal was first hand to tell us what it's like and to tell the truth.

I applaud you.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. well said, Ed
these chickenhawks think america means having others do the fighting and dying and all the sacrificing and work, while they ride on the backs of the rest like some maharajah atop an elephant's back.

thank you for your service. my brother is heading back to the Gulf for his second tour over there in three years. if anything happens to him God help any under 40 year old chickenhawk i encounter. if i have to once again be a pall bearer to a family member who died in combat ('68, my uncle in viet nam)i really do not know what i would do if some loudmouthed coward starts in about how he is defending america from his parents basement.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
79. I feel the same way you do kodi...They should put up or shut up!
Great letter Capt. Ed, I salute you, thanks for your service to your country. You had to be a soldier to know what it feels like, but you and I know that, the ones who were afraid to go, are the cowards who have a right to talk their trash, because you went and did your time.

People should call these ingrates every time they open their dirty mouths, on their lack of manhood and their ignorance of the facts of real life. TV warriors and vidiots, who I'd love to watch meet the DI!

I was at Ft. Carson in 70 in 4/12th Cav...
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. You rule _ed_!
I almost wrote a response to this POS column today, but you said it so much better than I ever could.

FSC
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
77. I just sent them a link to this thread. I named the subject:
Edited on Sat Aug-20-05 02:21 PM by Maraya1969
"You're in the headlines"

EDIT: I think it's dementia - not sure. Grammar
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Bravo!
:applause:

:toast:

Fantastic rebuttal!
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent points- Thanks for posting n/t
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Welcome to DU *Wave*
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Like I said previously, thank you for your service! Nominated. . .
for Greatest page.

:patriot:
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great letter, Ed!
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 09:14 PM by SeattleGirl
Very reasoned and well-said response to this chickenhawk. Hope they publish it.

__________________________________________________________

Another part of the article that struck me was this:

"The 'chickenhawk' argument was the implicit centerpiece of John Kerry's presidential campaign -- Kerry hyped his military service and denigrated George W. Bush's military service, all the while focusing on the fact that he, unlike President Bush, was anti-war."

Mr. Shapiro, while it should NOT surprise me that you and others like you continue to make these twisted arguments, I can still be astounded by them. John Kerry's military service was something he could hype because he SERVED in the truest sense of the word, while Bush got into the champagne unit, and then dropped out of sight, unless you consider getting dental work in Alabama something to crow about. Bush's "service" deserves to be denigrated, since he did not serve in the way John Kerry did. And as to Kerry being anti-war, well, he became so AFTER BEING IN VIETNAM, and after the Winter Soldier meetings. I would think that it is much easier to be pro-war if you've never been in combat yourself, chickenhawk!

____________________________________________________________

And Ed, welcome back, and thank you for your service.

:patriot:
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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick and nominate. nt
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ohtransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thank you for your service Ed.
We're going to need you to help our young vets understand our support is for them, that we value their service and sacrifice, that patriotism includes dissent. Our beef is with * and his band of thugs who lied us into this war in the first place.

God bless.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. This letter is powerful because it's so thoughtful.
I'll be very interested to see how/if Shapiro replies.

:toast:
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Outfuckingstanding, sir.
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newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Beautifully written. Thanks!
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. The chickenhawk argument strikes a nerve with these people
They NEVER have a decent response for it. They don't like to address the issue directly, and always say that they "Support the Troops". I think you will agree that some little chickenhawk "Supporting the Troops" with a magnet doesn't protect you from insurgents too well.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. Can The Virgin Ben still claim virginity after a reaming like that?
I think not!

Great work!
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. Good to see you again _ed_
I know you've been around here for a while, but I don't see you post very often. But, MAN, when you do!!! It's a doozy.

Thanks for this. I'm keeping it.

Catch22Dem
USAF 1992-2000
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. Excellent!
And welcome to DU.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. Great and welcome home Captain
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. By God, that is beautifully written!!
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 10:24 PM by Rabrrrrrr
That Shapiro guy is a total asshole.

"YAY! GO troops! I'm behind you all the way... all the way back here, in a paid writing job.... as a civilian, in the mainland...where it's safe... and where I just got an awesome deal on a foreclosed serviceman's house..."
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. spoken like a gentleman n/t
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
36. Kick A**m My Friend
:kick:
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
38. Very good !!!
Who will read it to him?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. I'm glad you posted this in a seperate thread
This needs to be on the home page.. nominated.

Oh and like I said before.. Welcome to DU :toast:
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks for this
and thank you for your service.
Well argued, and a true smackdown to Virgin Ben.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
41. A Masterpiece Ed... Thank You, And A Hearty Welcome To DU !!!
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 10:40 PM by WillyT
Proud to have you aboard!

:yourock:

Onedit: Recommended and :kick:

:hi:

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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
42. Way to go _ed
Your post kicks ass.

:headbang: :yourock: :patriot:
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. Excellent!
:applause:

Thank you for your service and welcome to DU, Captain.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
45. Beautiful and timely
:patriot:


:kick:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. Beautiful response
Really stick it to the person. I still get sick to my stomach and real pissed off about the Kerry bandaid thing, what they did to Max Cleland and they even got to Wes Clark. Then Paul Hackett and now Cindy Sheehan. It's so disgusting.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. The most perfect "slap" I've heard in my life. Thank your articulate soul.
:patriot: :woohoo:
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
49. Double oorah!
:kick: :kick:
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
50. Great reply!! kick
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
51. Wow. Just...wow.
I think you're right about not expecting to get a response from this young man. What could he possibly say? There is no spin he or anyone else could come up with to "counter" this. You spelled out perfectly how completely indefensible his stance on this is. Period.

Hope you find time and occasion to write here more often.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. My thoughts, exactly. Just wow...
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
56. You are a wonderful writer.
Thank you.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
57. WTF.... ???
Ben Shapiro: "we vote on tax policy, even if some of us don't pay taxes."

:wtf: How do you get to be part of that club? :shrug:
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. You just have to be stinking rich and / or actively contribute to
the Bush reign of terror.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
59. THANK YOU _ed_ !!!!!!
Welcome to DU and thanks for your service, and PLEASE keep speaking out!!! :patriot:
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Siena Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
60. Fantastic response!
I wonder if his tiny brain will be able to comprehend it though?
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GOPFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
62. Mr. Shapiro. WHAT HAVE YOU SACRIFICED FOR THIS WAR?
Have you enlisted? Have any of you brothers or sisters enlisted? Is you father or mother in the service? Have you paid more taxes to pay for this war? Have you started rifing a bike instead of driving to help our country become less dependent on oil? Have you spent a significant amount of time volunteering at a VA Hospital?

Casey Sheehan died along with more than 1,800 other young men and women your age in Iraq alone. Thousand more will never, ever be the same. Just what have YOU sacrificed???

Over 1,800 Americans have died so RW Chickenhawks can swagger around with yella' ribbon magnets on their pickups and brag about how damn patriotic they are at the local WalMart that gets their goods from Communist China.

Makes.Me.Sick!
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Shredr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
63. Bravo!!
Absolutely brilliant. Every chickenhawk in America should be forced to read this letter. memorize it.

Thank you. And welcome to DU!!!

Nominated.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
65. Nominated (nt)
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oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
68. Wow. You wanna talk to a chickenhawk I'm havin trouble getting through to?

An Open Letter to Cindy Sheehan
http://www.americandaily.com/article/8685

He's so caught up in the lies and RW talking points that I don't even know where to start with this guy. It's just sad, honestly

btw-excellent rebuttal to that Shapiro guy.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. Try this link oxbow
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
69. Kick!
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
70. Bravo!!
Thank you for serving our country. Thank you for telling it like it is..... :toast:
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evilqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
71. Bravo! Well said!!!
More veterans should take these chickenhawks on... publicly.
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Gronk Groks Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
72. Shapiro and the Neocons have no skin in the game...
...and the people that do don't have a right to state an opinion?

Basically that is Shapiro's argument. I do not remember ANYONE saying that the Neocons can not have or state an opinion. After all they have the entire mis-administration singing in the choir.

The implied statement is that because the opposing side actually has people who have served their country, they should not bring their credentials to the table. That the troops who have fought should not have any opinions why they sent OR voice them upon their release from service.

Welcome to DU from a former Veteran.
USS Enterprise (CVN-65)

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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. Lightening this up a bit
USS Enterprise? Beam me up Scottie, there's no intelligent life on this neocon planet:smoke:
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Gronk Groks Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. USS Enterprise (CVN-65)=Nuclear Aircraft Carrier...
...as in FLATTOP!! Based in Alameda, California (or at least it was when I was on it). United States Navy. Spent four (4) years on it. No warp engines, four nuclear power plants with two secondary loops each. Never leaves the water or the atmosphere either.

Stop toking and READ the post trucker!
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. A huge welcome to DU!
And a "Thank You, Sir!" Well done.
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