Update on mail not delivered to CPH by Crawford Post Office- Urgent.

[anarchy1999]

In my conversation with Kay this am we happened to stumble into a conversation about donations and that led to a conversation about the Post Office.

Seems as how the ladies working at the Post Office are none to fond of the Peace House (hostile comes to mind). For a couple of days the Peace House was receiving a flood of mail and then all of the sudden almost nothing. I do not know all of the details of what came next, apparently inquiries were made, can't deliver without the 11 digit zip etc.

Well to make a long story short, sometime within the last week, according to Kay, 4 Inspector Generals swept into the Crawford PO and they were caught red-handed (something about one or more letters addressed to Peace House with return to sender found).

Kay has no idea at all how many letters may have been returned, but here is their request. If you recieve a letter back please put it in another envelope, unopened, and send it back to the Dallas PO Box so that it may be used as evidence.

Crawford Peace House
PO BOX 710218
Dallas, TX 75371-0218

There is a volunteer at CPH from California who works for or is retired from the Postal Service and she knows the rules/law. If it is a known address it has to be delivered. This means if you send a letter to the Western White House, Crawford Tx, it is a known address. She even said if you send a letter to Cindy Sheehan, Camp Casey, Crawford, Tx, that that is a known address. And the Crawford Peace House is a KNOWN address. Just Crawford Peace House, Crawford, Tx is a known address, so the little bit about returning for not having the 11 digit zip was not quite right (maybe even a discipline/firing type of event). The workers at the PO let thier personal feelings intefere with doing their job as civil servants.

So there you have it, just another little friendly story coming from Crawford, Texas.

[wakeme2008]

1. Normally not only would the be fired but

looking at jail time. But this is Crawford... :(

[Autumn Colors]

5. Yes jail time...

Misdirecting the U.S. Mail is a federal offense.

[liberalhistorian]

58. It certainly is,

and the PO usually takes things like this VERY seriously. I hope these ignorant idiots are not only fired pronto, but subject to the stiffest criminal prosection allowable under the law.

[PunkPop]

8. I think these idiots are in deep shit.

Crawford or not.

[vickitulsa]

31. Thanks for this link!

It may have been posted here at DU before but this is the first time I've seen it, and I have non-DU friends who will love having this URL.

Just had to voice my gratitude. I am thankful as well to all the DUers who are making my efforts to keep up with events at Camp Casey so much easier than they would have been without ya's. It would seem my timing in finding DU "out of the blue" a few weeks ago was most felicitous!

Some accidental meetings were just meant to be. :D

~VV

[PunkPop]

46. No sweat Vicki.

My brother and sister-in-law live in Broken Arrow. I thought Dallas was Republican hell, but from what he says we've got nothing on Tulsa.

:)

[vickitulsa]

78. Oh man is that ever right!

I lived in Big D from 1994 to 1997, too, before moving back here, so I have a good basis for comparison.

Tulsa is so kneejerk rightwingish in many respects it's almost unbearable for me to drive around in this once-fine city anymore. And what is really sad is I remember well when it was NOT this way because I've lived here off and on since 1973 -- in fact it was just the opposite.

There are still little corners of T-town where we "live on Tulsa time" and appreciate the fine arts and many cultural offerings in the best liberal and Native American traditions. I believe Tulsa University is still a bastion of refined liberal consciousness, though I suspect most of the fiery rebellion of anti-war sentiment that resided there back in the days and years of Vietnam is missing now.

During the last few years I slowly realized that Tulsa had somehow morphed from a passionately liberal Democratic and intellectual stronghold into what feels a lot like a Republican concentration camp full of flag-crazy Bushbots. I never woulda thought it could happen here! Tulsa is the very LAST place I would have expected to see a Koolaid crowd....

But even now I frequently enjoy a break from the RW bumper stickers on the many SUVs, Hummers, and megapickuptrucks that populate our quaint little four-lane arteries as well as the war-supporting messages on church marquees and used-car-sales lots by riding my bicycle to the Tulsa University campus. There I take my time coasting around among the majestic old buildings that have always turned out brilliant liberal minds and hearts. TU is, like many colleges, historical; and the buildings alone remind me of noble times past in this heartland America town and give me a feeling of hope that even now the U.S. hasn't completely lost her way in the modern military-minded madness of the Hard Right.

I think a lot of the core left-leaning spirit of this town is still here, just waiting to be drawn out in its true colors that are not so much red, white, and blue as green or multi-colored like our society. I park my 21-speed bike in one of the many racks on campus and lie in the lush, well-kept grass on the quad in front of the library and marvel at how the two flags on the pole there -- Old Glory and our state flag with its American Indian emblems including a peace pipe -- are the ONLY flags to be seen across the entire campus.

TU in the traditional heart of the city represents the *true* heart of Tulsa way better than does the gawdy campus of ORU that has by now sprawled all over its southern outskirts -- complete with its enormous statue of the "praying hands" commissioned by Oral Roberts some 20 years ago to sit in front of the 50-story "City of Faith" Hospital. That hospital is no more, btw, and the building is now leased out as corporate offices of businesses of all kinds. But ORU moved the hands to the front drive of the university so they're even more intrusive upon anyone driving by on Lewis Avenue. Argh! Those hands have always looked to me more like a child's hands making the shape of a church, or perhaps of someone applauding the extravagance of the gold-roofed domes at ORU built by contributions of millions of little old ladies, not by donations from the oil barons whose mansions were turned into wonderful museums long ago.

I never had the opportunity to attend TU, but I have worked there as a secretary and enjoyed many concerts and other events there -- including anti-war rallies back in the '60's! I still ride my bicycle around the place and strangely I find I have hope lately that once again Tulsa may reclaim her rightful position as the leftish intellectual hub around which an affirmative culture demanding peace initiatives instead of oil wars revolves.

Think I'll bike to the TU campus today, in fact, and see if there's a peace movement birthing there ... and if not, perhaps I can help to begin one!

_______________________________________

[Hekate]

81. Vicki, thanks for a lovely tour of Tulsa and TU

I almost feel like I know the place -- and you. I hope your city returns to its better self one day soon.

Hekate
:hi: :hug:

[HeeBGBz]

59. I hope so

Sorry repuke scumbags.

[Horse with no Name]

9. But the crime is federal

Crawford alternate-universe rules wouldn't apply.
Jail time should be involved.
Not only that, but it is going to require more postage--so the people who sent things will have to pay postage again.
That isn't right, especially if there is a large amount of mail involved.

[punpirate]

15. I'm not sure that jail time is possible...

... but, the small-town politics of Crawford don't enter into it--it's strictly Federal and covered by Federal statute. That's why Federal postal inspectors were called in--they have authority, not the locals.

Now, there have been instances of jail time for carriers who dumped mail rather than deliver it, but those were longstanding problems that in some cases went on for decades. Not sure how the USPS inspector general would deal with something that had gone on for a few days.

Without question, though, in a very small town, with a very small post office, this could not have gone on without the knowledge of the postmaster, so it probably means that all of the people involved and the postmaster are going to be gone, and soon, which will simply increase the ill will--"The Peace House got the post office fired," that sort of thing.

If USPS is smart, they'll clean out the entire Crawford PO, put everyone on administrative leave, bring in temps from other offices, then take this month to do their investigation, and announce their findings after the outside political situation is gone.

But, the regulations are quite stringent, and if someone redirected or failed to deliver mail because of personal political feelings, those folks won't be working for the post office any longer.

Cheers.

[meganmonkey]

19. They'll probably have to volunteer a whole lot of time at their local

food bank or some other community service. We've had a couple 'volunteers' where I work who were wayward postal employees. They get assigned a LOT of hours.

[elehhhhna]

26. WHAT? Is that considered punishment by the PO?

[meganmonkey]

28. They'll probably get fired too

but as far as legal punishment, they probably won't get jail time. (see post #15 for a better explanation of this).

[Dr.Phool]

24. When I first posted this the other night

A lot of people said I was going off half-cocked, but I had a fairly reliable source.

[anarchy1999]

69. Please everyone, make sure you read this thread. You'll be glad you did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4397669

Still, if you do recieve a letter or postcard back, please put the letter unopened in another envelope and send it back to the Dallas PO Box for the Crawford Peace House.

[ComerPerro]

75. In Bush's America, if you are a right wing fanatic, you don't have to

do your job.

Its working for Pharmacists.

Maybe its against their Christain beliefs to deliver mail to people they don't like.

[China_cat]

2. Who wants to bet they had their civil service ratings

threatened if they didn't do something to help stop what's happening?

[Autumn Colors]

3. Doesn't this fall under the ....

"Miracle on 34th Street" PO rules??? Anyone who's ever seen that movie has heard that law read in the courtroom scene towards the end.

Ha... I live in a town with a population of around 20,000 and have a PO Box I use for my business, ebay, etc . My maiden name was a somewhat unique one. I once had a letter from overseas that was addressed only: (my name), (my state), "USA" make it to my PO Box. It didn't even have my TOWN on it and it still found its way to me!

EDIT: Sorry. Board doesn't like brackets, apparently.

[rocktivity]

39. There was a college football coach who called a play that didn't work

and cost it him an important game. He got a lot of hate mail, which neither surprised or bothered him. But there was one exception--one letter was simply adressed to "That Dumb Bastard (Coach's Name)", and the post office knew EXACTLY where to send it, LOL!

:rofl:
rocknation

[hang a left]

4. Recommended Topic. eom

[I Have A Dream]

6. Please NOMINATE to get this on the GREATEST page! n/t

[no_to_war_economy]

7. freaking pigs

stupid petty people really piss me off

[Scout]

10. I sent postcards, with no return address

I guess I'll never know if they got there or were re-routed into a Repuke postal worker's trash can....
:cry:

[anarchy1999]

13. Quite the possibility.

Just a nice, friendly, sleepy little town. I'm really sorry everyone, even I did not have any idea of the degree of hostility from some, although I really should have.

I keep telling you all it isn't easy being here in "Bush Country".

[Scout]

36. I'm really sorry everyone

no need to be, you did nothing at all wrong!

thanks for all you are doing right!

[Maddy McCall]

22. I did, too.

35 of them.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

43. Lots of postcards were sent last week from DU

Activist Corps. Is there a sense from the folks at CPH of how many were received? Fr'instance, did they notice a whole lot of cards coming in ? Or hardly any ?

[anarchy1999]

49. I'll try to look into that tomorrow and get back to you on that.

This is just simply not believable. I have crossed over into the twilight zone and I am being carried away down into Crawford.

Last thing we needed in this world, absolutely last damned thing!

[brook]

57. Instead of a postcard...

I sent a letter with cash inside. Not a lot of cash - but I hope to hell it got through.

My mom was a postmistress - hard for me to fathom postal workers like these.

[htuttle]

11. Newman!

[satya]

21. LOL! n/t

[Generic Other]

12. They will get in BIG trouble for that!

How DARE they?

[anarchy1999]

17. Because they live in Crawford and they really don't like us.

They were not very happy when Johnny established the Peace House, but I thought things had gotten far better than apparently they are. I just don't know. It boggles my little mind how people can be that hateful.

Just one more for the "you couldn't make this S&*& up if you tried" file.

[Generic Other]

18. Should we all call our local PO and say we mailed stuff to Cindy

that hasn't arrived? They will take a report and start tracing, I think.

[meganmonkey]

44. Well, it sounds like they were returning mail as undeliverable

so if you sent something you should get it back. I wouldn't report it unless you know for sure it didn't make it...

[anarchy1999]

50. NO! Let's wait, please. Did you send something, if so what?

They have recieved a ton and it will have to be gone through before that can be determined. What a f'ing mess. Earlier when this was reported I really kinda brushed it off, I couldn't imagine such a thing.

[fooj]

14. I sent her another check last week...

I'll wait and see if it's returned. I can't remember if I put the 9 digit # down...I think I figured 5 # zip would be ok...silly me!!!

Peace.

[elehhhhna]

27. Or never cashed--they may have thrown stuff out @ the PO

[tyedyeto]

16. A little off topic anarchy1999 but...

any word about the Freeper rally and sheets that was supposed to happen this morning?

[Generic Other]

20. Help us monitor!! Link: 8/19 ALL DU Cindy threads DAY 13

8/19 ALL DU Cindy threads DAY 13
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4396945

[madrchsod]

23. ya right

i mail stuff out for a living and i know that regular mail does not have to have a 11 digit. direct mailings such as adverts,magazines, and other commercial mailings have to...i`m sure the ladies will be talked to about postal regulations

[Occulus]

76. I work for USPS

No zip is required. It only makes it easier to sort.

Our OCR (optical character reader) system is really state of the art. VERY high speed, very accurate. If your location is in our national directory- and we try as damn hard as possible to get every address in the nation- your mail *will* get there.

The number of digits in the zip code is a canard. This was intentional. As an aside, as a postal worker, if these ladies do NOT get fired, I would say (I posted this below, too) that qualifies as tacit permission to refuse to sort mail from the Heritage Foundation, Focus on the Family, etc. Why?

One postal worker is equal to another, and we all fall under the same rules. If they get "special" treatment, I get a defense. :) Maybe we should remind the dark side of that. If these ladies were APWU members, I'm equal to them; if they "get away with it", why, then so can anyone.

Which, of course, is why they should get the book thrown at them. This is unacceptable, but dammit, I dare them to set precedent by letting them get away with it.

[July]

25. Why is this address in Dallas? nt

[BeTheChange]

33. I think Hadi or Johnny actually live in Dallas..

so they can check the PO box and not have to worry about people in Crawford tampering with things..

Keep in mind, this is only conjecture :)

[Hubert Flottz]

29. The Keystone GOPers strike again.

There is no trick to underhanded for these KKKeystone KKKompassionate KKKonservatives to pull. Gilligan must be running the RNC now!

[caligirl]

30. I did not put a return address on my envelope, but I only put $5 in it.

I mailed it Monday by 5pm, so it was probably one they tried to throw out. Can I press charges?

[WinkyDink]

32. I just called there,

And asked TWICE what the Crawford zip code is. Man said, "76638".
I repeated it, and said, "You just said 5 digits. You have workers stamping 'Return to sender' or even throwing away mail to Cindy Sheehan, claiming an 11-digit zip code was needed."
Reply, "No, Ma'am, that was a little error."

So I forcefully told him it was no error, it was Republicans breaking a Federal Law and I hope they do time!

[Generic Other]

34. Good job Winky!!

Everyone should call their own local POs and complain. Let's make sure that Crawford PO delivers every postcard, letter and package sent their way even if it's mailed: To Cindy, somewhere in a ditch outside Crawford!

What ever happened to "Neither sleet nor snow nor GOP operatives' dirty tricks shall stop the mail from making its appointed rounds"?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. kick

[kimpossible]

37. What if I only put my city & state on a postcard?

If there isn't a full return address, but just a return city and state, what do they do with it? Is there a dead letter office that I should contact?

[Generic Other]

41. Complain!!!

See thread below!

[jaysunb]

38. go here for up date

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4397669

[Generic Other]

40. CALLED MY POST OFFICE AND MADE AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT

Actually, Mr. Generic Other did it! And he was HOT!

We got an official complaint number and a promise to call back to tell us how they were handling it by next Tuesday.

Here is the general number to complain!

1-800-275-8777

[EC]

42. What is it with all these ** lovers that they

think they are above the law and can do whatever they please?

[meganmonkey]

45. They must take their cue from their great leader

who seems to get away with whatever he pleases, no matter how illegal

:puke:

[SeattleGirl]

70. 'zactly!!!

The sheeple will do what their leader does.

[kestrel91316]

64. Because they CAN, in most cases. The fascists are in charge.

[slutticus]

47. Isn't messing with peoples' mail a federal crime?

[Rainscents]

48. All Post Office workers are Union members and I'm sure, most of the

members are very upset with whomever did this! We also need to contact Union in Washington DC and have them look into this matter!
I'm sure, Cindy's lawyer is all over this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karenina]

51. Kick!

:kick:

[hexola]

52. boing!!!

[rateyes]

53. I hope those postal workers...

don't "go postal" on us! I'm serious.

[zippy890]

54. Yeow! 4 people from the Inspector General's Office?

and that quick they came to the Crawford PO? That is some serious mishandling!

I have had some experience with federal agencies and have worked in jobs where a familiarity with the Inspector Generals Office is required and I have never heard of 4 people coming out of that office to investigate a claim of fraud that quickly.

This is very distressing, think of all the possible donations, letters & cards.

I'm pissed

[BrotherBuzz]

61. I think they might be from the US Postal Inspection Service

As one of our country’s oldest federal law enforcement agencies, founded by Benjamin Franklin, the United States Postal Inspection Service has a long, proud, and successful history of fighting criminals who attack our nation’s postal system and misuse it to defraud, endanger, or otherwise threaten the American public. As the primary law enforcement arm of the United States Postal Service, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service is a highly specialized, professional organization performing investigative and security functions essential to a stable and sound postal system.

Congress empowered the Postal Service "to investigate postal offenses and civil matters relating to the Postal Service." Through its security and enforcement functions, the Postal Inspection Service provides assurance to American businesses for the safe exchange of funds and securities through the U.S. Mail; to postal customers of the "sanctity of the seal" in transmitting correspondence and messages; and to postal employees of a safe work environment.

As fact-finding and investigative agents, Postal Inspectors are federal law enforcement officers who carry firearms, make arrests and serve federal search warrants and subpoenas. Inspectors work closely with U.S. Attorneys, other law enforcement agencies, and local prosecutors to investigate postal cases and prepare them for court. There are approximately 1,970 Postal Inspectors stationed throughout the United States who enforce more than 200 federal laws covering investigations of crimes that adversely affect or fraudulently use the U.S. Mail and postal system.

To assist in carrying out its responsibilities, the Postal Inspection Service maintains a Security Force staffed by 1,100 uniformed Postal Police Officers who are assigned to critical postal facilities throughout the country. The officers provide perimeter security, escort high-value mail shipments, and perform other essential protective functions.

The Postal Inspection Service operates four forensic crime laboratories, strategically located in cities across the country. The labs are staffed with forensic scientists and technical specialists, who assist Inspectors in analyzing evidentiary material needed for identifying and tracing criminal suspects and in providing expert testimony for cases brought to trial.

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/missmore.htm

[B Calm]

55. I hope they get jail time! My god, the guilty has to be punished!

[Lisa]

56. I bet most of the regular postal workers are displeased with Bush

If the USPS people are anything like the Canadian postal workers -- whose union printed up buttons and banners for the anti-war protests.

[Libby2]

60. They are probably pissed

at the extra work load, among other things.

[kestrel91316]

65. Yeah, God forbid they actually have to EARN their paychecks for once.

[jillan]

62. I mailed Cindy a box, with little gifts of support, and a little spending

$$$$ - Dammit if I get it back!

[Mr_Spock]

63. Between this and the inability to get deliveries - I have to wonder

Are Texans nice people liek some are portraying? IT sounds like the same old hate and bigotry that we've come to expect from the South & Texas. I may be generalizing, but I don't get these people who are letting personal politics interfere with their ability to perform their job duties - those are grounds for dismissal where I work...

[tavalon]

73. Texans are "Southern nice"

and some are genuinely nice but the southern form of nice is sugar to your face and a knife in your back.

I'm heading back to Texas next week and am not looking forward to it. I'm pleased that I will get to go to Crawford to be with my fellow patriots but that is about the only thing I like. I hope I get to get out of Texas in under a year this time and that I don't have to go back.

[Mr_Spock]

77. "sugar to your face and a knife in your back"

Tell me about it - I've experienced that more than once...

[fearnobush]

66. This is Mail Fraud - a federal offense.

Time to press charges.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Isn't fucking with the mail a felony?

I think that's even the legal term for it, "fucking with the mail".

[Wizard777]

72. It's far worse than that.

They have conspired against Americans seeking to establish the peace. They have even utilized a military tactic against their fellow American that they have a duty to serve. They have cut our lines of written communication with Camp Casey. This is akin to treason. If we protected our Peace as well as our Wars. It would be treason.

[BikeWriter]

68. The USPS has its own investigators and they are tough!

Heads will roll!

[Greyhound]

79. I think you're forgetting John E. Potter, he's determined to screw up

the finest mail service in the world so the neo-cons can sell it off to UPS.

[fortyfeetunder]

71. The loaded question...

will the guilty be pardoned later?

[Occulus]

74. If they are NOT fired,

I have permission to refuse to sort mail for Focus on the Family, the Heritage Foundation, etc. A postal worker's rules are the same. coast to coast.

Can their asses, or let me trash Repuke mailings while I'm at work. One or the other.

[vickitulsa]

80. Hey that's true.

If they do NOT fire or otherwise severely discipline the mail sorters who arbitrarily picked out and failed to deliver Peace House mail and specifically mail sent to Cindy Sheehan by name, then a precedent would be set for postal workers across the nation.

I've never been one, but if I were a post office employee, I'd damn sure find it difficult to go against my conscience and deliver tons of mail to certain interests and parties I abhor. Everything from TV preachers who receive millions in donations from poor believers to scamming fly-by-night companies who bilk trusting customers (hmm, those two aren't much different), there are a LOT of pieces of mail postal workers of various persuasions might be inclined to sort out of the mix and trash or "lose." It even happens, on occasion, but rarely in anything other than a random way. Like when a mail carrier gets tired of lugging junk-mail-stuffed bags around and leaves a couple of those big bags in his garage instead of delivering what's in them as addressed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[freedomburn]

82. Man, I so want to go to Crawford, TX and camp out.

Thinking...

[SoCalDem]

83. My mother used to raise siamese cats, and once got a letter addressed to

"The lady who sells siamese cats"
??? 12th street
Salina Ks

Our town was about 40K at the time..