anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:05 AM
Original message |
I had a kid tell me this afternoon that this is "not his war". I've been |
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talking with him for 3 years. He supports our troops, he has a decent job, but this is "not his war".
I'm at a loss. You support it, but you don't? This is not your war?
Damn.
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oasis
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:11 AM
Response to Original message |
anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. He supports Bush, he supports our troops, then why don't you join up? |
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Edited on Thu Aug-25-05 02:18 AM by anarchy1999
"it's not my war".
I was stupified. I had no appropriate response. I did not want to offend him, but I was offended. Damn, once again. I have to learn something new.
on edit:
It was heartbreaking. I did not know what to say.
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oasis
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. The guy seems as shallow as a parking lot puddle. |
evilqueen
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
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If he voted for Bush, this *is* his war. No shirking responsibility allowed.
His vote counted for Bush and he is responsible for his vote. This war is something he definitely owns, no matter how hard he tries to distance himself from it. That goes for every person who voted for Bush, especially in 2004 as the war was already ongoing.
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wli
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:14 AM
Response to Original message |
2. Bushler, Cheney, Rummy, & Ledeen's war (maybe PNAC & the AEI's, too) |
craigolemiss
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:15 AM
Response to Original message |
3. Ask him which war is "His War?" |
opihimoimoi
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:18 AM
Response to Original message |
5. As a result of dumbing down.....a lot of kids these days have no idea |
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HOW to think...
Reason and Reality are not part of the mental make up...those chips are of the early kind...no updates...
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. Peace to you dearest. My daughter is one. |
evilqueen
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
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If they voted for Bush in 2004, this war is theirs. They own it. They are responsible for their votes. They cannot say "we didn't know!" because the war was already ongoing during the November elections. This war is the responsibility of all Bush supporters.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
10. Okay then, how do you make these young kids understand that this is |
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indeed "THEIR WAR"? There is where I am at a loss. I've been talking with this kid for three years. He knows, he understands and today he tells me this is not his war?
Like I said, I was stupified. I had no appropriate response. You support Bush, you support our troops, but this is not your war?
Huge disconnect. Short circuit, etc. Help me please.
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FlemingsGhost
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. "responsible for their votes"? The '04 ticket had two pro-war pigs |
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A fact conveniently forgotten, by many here at DU.
If you supported the DLC whore for president, this is YOUR war, too.
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oasis
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
12. Are you saying that Kerry was aware of the DSM and his plea for Bush |
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Edited on Thu Aug-25-05 03:47 AM by oasis
to go to war "only as a last resort" was an act?
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FlemingsGhost
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. If a 30-year D.C. veteran could not see the writing on the wall ... |
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he is not qualified to be a Senator, let alone President.
How is it many of here at DU knew the IWR was a sham, but folks like Kerry claim that they were lied to, and had no idea that Bush would abuse the priviledges given to him?
I call bullshit, and I also attach this war onto all Democrats who decided it was in their best interests to play Beltway politics, when it came to supporting the "war."
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oasis
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
15. Just answer the question I asked if you can. |
FlemingsGhost
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
17. I cannot ... neither can you, for that matter |
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Makes most of this interlude rather pointless, don't you think?
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oasis
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Thu Aug-25-05 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
22. Being prepared to back up your assertions before calling "bullshit" |
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Edited on Thu Aug-25-05 04:05 AM by oasis
may be of use to you in future "debates".
Good night. :hi:
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FlemingsGhost
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Thu Aug-25-05 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. Yeah .. that's clever and all ... |
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Point taken, but I still call bullshit.
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fujiyama
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
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Edited on Thu Aug-25-05 03:56 AM by fujiyama
Those of us that opposed this war should have all voted for Nader or Cobb. What nonsense. Unless you don't pay American taxes, your hands aren't clean either. The war and the blood of this war is on ALL OUR HANDS.
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FlemingsGhost
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
16. Interesting debate technique |
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Watch this: it's called "ignoring you" ...
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fujiyama
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Thu Aug-25-05 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
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I've had enough of your self righteous bullshit.
Good bye!
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
18. You have to calm down and chill out. Passions are running too high. |
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Seriously, take it down a notch or two, please.
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fujiyama
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Thu Aug-25-05 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
21. I'm not going to be blamed for this war |
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I didn't create it.
But if the poster wants to claim that because I voted for Kerry, I share special responsibility, then I call bullshit.
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FlemingsGhost
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Thu Aug-25-05 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
20. By the way, I have not paid taxes since the war started. |
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Some of us actually walk the walk ...
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fujiyama
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Thu Aug-25-05 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
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you are consistant. You are breaking the law, but nevertheless you are consistant. For that I applaud your beliefs.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
26. I've not paid taxes for far longer. |
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Is that walking the walk. I think I quit around the time of the Oklahoma incident.
Peace once again.
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evilqueen
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Thu Aug-25-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
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The war was already ongoing during the November elections.
The person ultimately responsible is the president of the U.S., not a Senator from Massachusetts. And like many Americans, he didn't know about the Downing St. minutes... remember Bush telling him in the debate that he "saw the same intelligence I did"? Knowing what I know now, that was Bush's way of trying to pin responsibility on Kerry, knowing the intelligence was "fixed around the policy."
Bush knew, Kerry didn't.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 05:19 AM
Response to Original message |
25. All I asked in this post was for a reasonable response to a young man |
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Edited on Thu Aug-25-05 05:19 AM by anarchy1999
I've been talking with for years, since before we started to drop the bombs in Iraq.
How do you get across to someone who "supports the war", but believes it is "not his war" that they bear any degree of responsibility as a citizen of this country?
He is a sweet, young, disillusioned young man.
Peace all.
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ninkasi
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Thu Aug-25-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
27. I don't know how old he is... |
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I only know that many young people have never lived in a completely real world. Too much hype all around, too many trends, too much information to digest. They have been bombarded all of their lives with data, but have not lived long enough to put it in any perspective.
Some of us, like me, who were born when WWII was going on, grew up at a slower pace, and had the luxury of more time. We did not receive information at such a fast pace, and in such large chunks, that we were a little more able to think about one thing, before we were hit with another.
I'm sorry I have no real answer for you. I just have a lot of compassion and pity for today's young people. It's almost like learning to drive in the fast lane of a freeway in L.A. ...no time to learn from mistakes. Best of luck to you, though. I wish I could have helped.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
28. You can always help, never quit thinking that it's too late. All we have |
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left is hope and you can't quit.
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fujiyama
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Thu Aug-25-05 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
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that since Bush is responsible for starting this war, that by voting for him, he does bear some of the responsibility of this war.
Ask him why he supports this president and what a vote really means.
Not be rude, but he sounds kind of stupid and I'd have a much tougher time keeping sane. IMO, he should go enlist his ass if he supports the chimp.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
30. I keep asking him to join, he always has an answer. The latest was the |
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best. "It's not my war". Deep breath, go home, think about an appropriate response. Damn.
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fujiyama
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Thu Aug-25-05 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
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The way he sees it, politics is just some abstract thing. What happens in DC, could just as well be happening in Katmandu for all he cares.
Unfortunately, that's the way many view politics, and even for those that vote, the real importance and responsibility of it is lost. Tell him that actions have consequences - that by attacking a country like Iraq which didn't pose a threat, we lose the world's support when a real threat arises.
And ultimately tell him that by killing many innocent people, we are creating enemies for a long time and that if or when another terrorist attack were to occur here, the US would have little sympathy abroad and little cooperation in finding those responsible. As it is, our attitude and aggressive behavior has alienated many in the world in the fight against terrorism, an issue that cannot be won by simple military actions alone.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #31 |
32. You nailed it all. It is my heartbreak every day. My daughter wants to |
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be a doctor and yet she hates being forced to learn Spanish, I embarress her with my activism and she says to me why should I care about anyone over there. And she wants to be a doctor.
Heart breaks again, 1000 times 10.
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evilqueen
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Thu Aug-25-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
35. I found that for me, a trip to Arlington did the trick. |
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I don't know if you'll understand that, and I don't know if I can explain it.
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Vinca
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Thu Aug-25-05 07:05 AM
Response to Original message |
33. Tell him if it's not "his war," he should help to oppose it. |
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Then show him a gallery of photos of dead Iraqi children. It wasn't "their war" either. It won't traumatize him. The video games they play are almost worse than the real thing. Maybe that's why they're so removed from reality. I hope it doesn't take a draft to bring them back to earth.
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lostnfound
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Thu Aug-25-05 07:20 AM
Response to Original message |
34. What do you expect him to do about it? |
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A sense of responsibility without a sense of power is frustrating & painful. Is he unconsciously trying to avoid that pain? "Why accept any sense of responsibility when you feel powerless to do anything about it?"
We are trained to feel powerless in our culture, aren't we? The power of ordinary people to make a difference in the political arena is not recognized.
Here's a few steps of logic you might try: 1. With the American Revolution, the citizens took the power of government out of the hands of the King and put it in the hands of themselves. We the People became the new King. 2. With that power comes responsibility. 3. Our power is diffuse but ignoring it completely is like handing it over to the 'bad guys' (corrupt elements) eager to seize it for themselves.
I'd also add: 4. To be fully human we must protect that part of ourselves that cares for the pain and suffering of others.
But the hard part is knowing how to turn it into action, and still feel that your efforts aren't wasted.
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anarchy1999
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Thu Aug-25-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
37. Thanks and there is the hard part. How do I reach out and touch this |
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young man. He is so close and yet so far away.
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