classic guerilla warfare in Iraq

[tocqueville]

Three weeks of reporting embedded with American troops in Anbar's main centers of guerrilla resistance found that U.S. forces are failing to make headway, and some commanders fear that much of the military effort is wasted.

"It doesn't do much good to push them out of these areas only to let them go back to areas we've already cleared," said Lt. Col. Tim Mundy, who commands the 3rd Battalion of the 2nd Marine Regiment. Mundy, 40, of Waynesville, N.C., whose battalion is based in Qaim, added: "We're successful at taking some of his equipment and killing some insurgents, but the effectiveness is limited because we can't stay ... we go back to camp and then we get reports that they've come back in."

- In Fallujah, a city that Marines and soldiers retook from insurgents last November in the heaviest urban combat since Vietnam, fighters have begun to return and renew their intimidation campaign.

"As we all know, we have mujahedeen operating in small squads throughout the city," Marine Sgt. Manuel Franquez said before leading a patrol in Fallujah last week, using an Arabic term that means "holy warrior."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050825/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_usiraq_battleground_wa

[Carla in Ca]

1. And no constitution either

A. Complete. Failure.



<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4458738>

[jody]

2. I'm not sure it's "classic guerilla warfare". It's more likely a new type

guerrilla warfare adapted to the local environment and new technology. That's why our forces are having to develop new tactics.

[tocqueville]

3. I wrote classic because "Charlie owns the night"

then of course there are differences...

but the fact is that the cowboys are in the fort and the indians in the woods

[jody]

4. I'm not sure "Charlie owns the night" as we had in Vietnam. One problem

is we don't have enough troops to do the job even if it was morally correct to be there. For example, night vision equipment and a host of thermal sensors coupled to pinpoint, fire support is a vast improvement over the 1960s.

Of course I believe we shouldn't be there in the first place and we need to withdraw immediately.

[tocqueville]

5. read the whole article (maybe you did)

"There's no way I can control this area with the men I have," Coffey, 37, of Burlington, Vt., said in a recent interview. "The reports are that the insurgents are using these southern control points because they're open. We can't keep them closed because I don't have the manpower."

He said that in the previous week a sniper had shot an Iraqi soldier working with his company in the face and killed him. Snipers also shot two American soldiers, one through the hand and the other through the hand and gut.

A few minutes later Coffey's radio squawked. A rocket-propelled grenade had hit one of his Bradley Fighting Vehicles. Rushing to the scene, he found the driver and crew safe, but one of the soldiers in the vehicle looked at Coffey with large eyes and said, "I hate being up here by my f------ self." Without another Bradley or Humvee close by, it's easy for insurgents to pop up from behind, Coffey said.

"I know there're caches and bad guys out there," said Coffey's commander, Maj. Jason Pelletier, 32, of Milton, Vt. "And they know that I don't have the manpower to get out there. You don't have to be that smart to realize that."

............................................

I agree with you about the manpower. But in the actual situation "they own the night" meaning that they can move freely... even at day time. I thought the article was interesting because the embedded reporters gave for once a non rosy report of the situation.

[jody]

8. I agree. I have friends and relatives that have been and are in Iraq.

Every new conflict brings new tactical and strategic problems. We have two major problems.

First we shouldn't be in Iraq, and second Bush is not giving our troops equipment to defend themselves against a determined enemy.

The entire blame is squarely on Bush as Commander in Chief. Congress would give him a blank check for equipment and troops but Bush must first admit that he screwed up royally. Bush's betrayal of our troops is far greater than anything Benedict Arnold did.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. Did you ever think that this scenario is by design?? Did you ever

think that we don't WANT TO settle it and leave? That would leave someone in charge of making the decision as to who, what, when and where regarding the oil fields and so forth.

[hwmnbn]

6. NBC nightly news just described a tactic being used in Baghdad....

They showed a open air market where official Iraqi forces uniforms are easily purchased. Apparently insurgents used these to go into an upscale neighborhood posing as hooded Iraqi Security forces . They look legit and ask for information about the insurgency. Anyone who gives information is later arrested, tortured, and then killed, some beheaded.

They said today 20 bodies were delivered to the Baghdad morgue. They showed some video. The kicker is the american forces "didn't know" this was happening.

I can't believe how messed up the situation is. I can't imagine the fear and suffering of those poor folks.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619
"Iraqis wonder whom to trust"

[ContraBass Black]

7. Whoa.

Brilliantly horrific.

Is there a solution to this?

[htuttle]

10. Yes there is

We go home.

...There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms....
-- Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

[ContraBass Black]

17. That won't stop this.

That will just take us out of harm's more immediate way.

[hwmnbn]

13. I've been thinking......

and I can't come up with one.

Where are the brilliant strategists at the DOD or the PNAC? They need to come up with something quick.

[hwmnbn]

9. oops....

deleted dupe. must've been a server burp

[PurityOfEssence]

11. Shades of Guilford Courthouse

That should ring true to North Carolinians. All the might of the British Army could do was merely push the insurgents from the field at great cost to their own units. Far from home, the wounded conquerers could claim tactical victory, but that's all. Victory would have been the destruction of the rebel army, and they didn't even get close. Instead, they degraded their own forces and morale.

One thing very different about this war than other insurgencies of the past is that the land is so inhospitable. It affects both the would-be conquerers and the locals. In Vietnam, there's vegetation everywhere, so people can hide and sustain themselves. To find similar situations, one should look at Napoleon's adventures in Spain--which is where the term "guerilla" was coined--or some of the Italian misadventures in Libya.

Holding land doesn't mean much of anything; the issue is destroying the insurgency. It's not going to happen. They will go back to urban areas or villages and wait to regroup.

Why do conservatives, who so love the past, know nothing about history?

[bemildred]

12. It does make me think of Boneheads adventure in Spain.

A thoroughly ugly business, as this is turning out to be also.

[jody]

14. "Guilford Courthouse"! Of course Bush, a history major, is well read

on the American Revolution. Sorry, I forgot * never got beyond "My Pet Goat"
:hi:

[Wizard777]

16. and by Al Qaida MERCENARIES. Gee Wiz, go Figure!

If we have seen this type of warfare before. Then Bush doesn't get to fly by the seat of his pants making it all up as he goes along. Do you think the Chickenhawks don't understand warfare unless it against America? They are very proficient at that. If only the White House would go after Usama Bin Laden like he were a liberal Democrat or a dead Soldiers Mother.

Hey look it's a wheel. NOOOOOO! It's a Cyclonicgizmotron! The world has never seen this before. Our poor stupid forefather could have never envisoned this Cyclonicgizmotron. We have now achieved a Constitutional gray area to engage in Anarchy. Sorry! It's a freakin' WHEEL. Your busted for Conspiring against the US Constitution....and being stupid.