Do SUVs Make You Stupid?

[no_to_war_economy]

But, really, we have to just admit it: the SUV is hypocrisy incarnate. It is the perfect emblem for the American view, for our position in the world: gluttonous, vain, dangerous to almost everyone else on the road, mostly useless (over 85 percent of SUVs never see a dirt road, much less need 4-wheel drive), ugly as hell and as graceful or practical as a school bus on an ice-skating rink.

greatest article you will ever read

[Agnomen]

1. This is a chicken and egg question

Do SUV's make people stupid, or do stupid people buy SUV's?

[ArkDem]

2. I think a lot of the anger comes from folks who can't afford one.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. I could afford to buy any vehicle I wanted to, including a luxury

RV, but I am blessed with a conscience and wouldn't have one if it were given to me. They are the symbol of the arrogant self-centered American who could give a damn about the rest of the world!

[no_to_war_economy]

4. you are full of piss and vinegar

and I love you

:loveya:

[Ripley]

5. That is a really broad brush and quite obscene.

Some of us have to carry items that don't fit in VW bugs. Some of us actually do use the utility vehicle for utility not just carry one child and a bag of groceries.

I don't defend those who are wasteful and buy them for status or whatever, but please don't insult us liberals who actually use these vehicles. We're not stupid.

[IrateCitizen]

17. Chances are you STILL don't need the SUV, friend...

A minivan actually has more cargo space and headroom than an SUV, and gets better gas mileage. Ditto with most wagons these days, like the Chrysler PT Cruiser or Toyota Matrix. But don't take my word for it -- compare the cubic footage between vehicles -- I guarantee you'll be surprised.

If you need to haul around real "cargo", then a pickup truck is the best way to go.

The ONLY time I've seen SUV's as actually necessary vehicles is for hauling around several people over rough terrain, such as on a construction site. Other than that, they are usually a product of vanity for which other vehicles could serve a much better purpose. And the refrains from those who drive them trying to justify their perceived necessity are quite predictable and more based on emotional need for reassurance than anything approaching fact.

[Ripley]

23. I have an old pickup and a SUV>

The pickup is 1989 GMC that is not very reliable for me to do the long distance driving and hauling I need to do for business.

It's a Toyota Highlander and it gets excellent gas mileage...I'm sure better than a dodge caravan that is an unreliable piece of shit.

Is it now the norm at DU to tell Americans what they can buy and drive?

[IrateCitizen]

31. Where did I tell you what you can and cannot drive?

Please point out to me in my post where I said you should be forbidden by law from driving an SUV? I'll mail you a check for $1000 if you can do so.

No, what I did was to point out that in most instances, people who say they "need" an SUV could find their needs met more easily by another automobile, and their "need" of an SUV is more founded upon vanity than anything else.

This is America, and last I checked the freedom of speech had not yet been taken away. That means that while people have the right to drive SUV's, I also have the right to tell them that they're narcissistic assholes for doing so if they don't really need them. They don't have to like it when I say so, but I still have the right to say so, and to be honest I hope it offends them.

You picked a Dodge Caravan as your example of an "unreliable piece of shit". But what about the Toyota Siena? Or the Honda minvan? What mileage do you get in your Highlander? What kind of stuff do you have to haul for business? Could it reasonably be hauled in a vehicle that gets better fuel efficiency?

If you've already answered all of these questions and you still find that only a Highlander can meet your needs, then you need an SUV -- and probably represent only about 1% of actual SUV owners. But if you haven't asked all these questions, then chances are you are, deep down, driving an SUV for vanity as well as "utility", and just don't want to admit it.

[Tesha]

83. Nope, I checked.

Caravans, in most years and most configurations, get better fuel
economy than the equivalent Toyota Highlander.

You are correct, though, that from a reliability standpoint,
Caravans are a piece of shit. So buy an Odyssey or Siena
instead. More room than your Highlander, better economy,
and just as much reliability.

Tesha

[no_to_war_economy]

85. i heart my sienna

[Liberal In Texas]

47. A mini-van does NOT BY DEFINITION get better mileage than an SUV

just because it's a mini-van. My SUV gets better mileage than a lot of CARS.

[Pretty_in_CodePink]

75. I believe it. I think the real guzzlers are those giant SUV's

I once drove a Lexus SUV as a loaner (forget the model but not the big one) It had a display with gas mileage. I was very supprised by the mileage and unhappy that my car was not significantly better. I would love to get into a Prius but I have to admit that I am concerned by its size. Will consider Accord 4 cylinder next as I hear gas mileage is very good.

The roads in Central Florida are filled with giant SUV's and are notoriously unsafe. Lots of red light runners. I at least like my car to be really solid. I liked my Volvo S70 best. Performed very well in a rear end collision.

[Pretty_in_CodePink]

72. Just rode in my friend's Honda Element

I am very impressed with the volume in the rear. Will definitely consider this for next work vehicle. We have to cart a bunch of stuff around for our business. Don't have a monolithic SUV but I think with an Element we could go smaller. Plus you don't have to lift stuff so far off the ground to put it in the back. There are good alternatives out there.

[Scout]

66. I'm a bad DUer I guess

I not only drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee (purchased a used 2000 model after the 1998 one was totalled) but I live in a trailer park.

Hmmm, so am I trailer trash or an arrogant, stupid rich bitch who doesn't care about other people? Maybe I'm both!

We also own a 1992 ford escort station wagon that we do a lot of our driving with. We use the jeep for some day to day driving, and for going to the cabin up north (MIchigan) with our dogs and all our stuff. We also enjoy camping and have many times, with both the old jeep and the current one, hauled us, our dogs, and all our camping gear around on trips. We took a two and a half week trip camping across Canada from east to west, and then back across the US from west to east. I'd never be able to afford a trip like that staying in hotels/flying.

I test drove several different mini-vans and could not get used to the feel sitting inside, couldn't get comfortable. Didn't like the way they handled either. I wanted to like the minivans, really, because the used ones we looked at were less expensive than the used Jeep ... but I didn't end up wanting a van. Plus, we had to haul the seats out and store them somewhere if we wanted to use the back for dogs and cargo.

[Liberal In Texas]

73. Excellent point about the seats. The SUV-NAZIS think that it's OK to have

the seats stored in your living room or soomething. 90% of the time by rear 2 seats are folded down as I'm using the vehicle to haul stuff. Stuff that you can't haul in a pick-up because it must be climate-controlled. When you take the seats out of the van, it leaves these wonderful attachment bars and fittings to really mess up the outside of what you're hauling.

SUVs have their place. I think people like to pick this fight every week or so because they're bored.

[StayOutTheBushes]

8. Give more money to the poor.

[GoSolar]

11. Really?

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion.
There are many folks I know who could "afford" to own one, but find SUVs so disgusting that they would not even consider it.

[ArkDem]

18. I didn't really come to that conclusion. It's just a lot of fun to jerk

the chains of the self-righteous. Especially on a Friday!:evilgrin:

[bicentennial_baby]

12. Bwahahaha

:rofl: Oh yeah, I sooooo wish I could have an overpriced box with more expensive tires and shitty gas mileage!! I am so goddamn jealous...not! :eyes:

[pointblank]

6. Nothing fuels my road rage tendencies..

more than a Cadillac Escalade or a Ford Expedition driving 10 mph under the fucking speed limit, taking up two lanes by crossing the lines and a plastic surgery ridden rich person who can barely see over the dashboard behind the wheel.

Throw a 'W' sticker on the back and you may as well arrest me right on the spot.


edited to add: Holding a cell phone up to his/her ear.

and to clarify that it is not only the women who piss me off driving these things, but the men who drive past you at 90 mph in the fast lane on the highway in amonstrous SUV while it is raining or snowing out as if SUV's stick to the road better than other vehicles.

I do not mean to insinuate that women are bad drivers...before I get accused of it.

Thanks! :)

[ArkDem]

49. My misogyny meter is maxing out...

[pointblank]

53. Even after my disclaimer...

OK, I made it more gender friendly. Happy now?

[beetbox]

7. Weapons of Mass Pollution

:think:

[IrateCitizen]

9. Stupid? No. Conformist and vain and insecure? Yes.

I have two sisters-in-law who live with their families in Danbury, CT. Both of them either have or have had SUV's as their primary vehicles. They're convinced they need vehicles that big because they're inherently "safer".

Of course, it could have something to do with the fact that they and their husbands are extremely materialistic and status-driven, and believe their key to happiness is the idealistic suburban life (never mind the fact that they are still extremely unhappy in a lot of ways).

In that sense, they're like a large portion of the US population.

[Stephanie]

10. I love Mark Morford

And the salesman sees that look and just smiles and licks his chops and points out how this 4-ton hunk of environmental devastation can seat nine and tow a large tractor or maybe 15 head of cattle, plus it has 27 cup holders and three DVD players and a built-in sense of false superiority, and the vaguely depressed regularly emasculated suburban dad or the gum-snapping Marina girl with way too much of her parents' money and way too little self-defined taste takes one look and goes, oooh.

[LibDemAlways]

13. In my So. Cal. suburb

an SUV is still a status symbol. The men drive small Audis and Beamers while the wives are carting around two kids in an unwieldy behemoth, one hand on the wheel, the other on the "cell."

I don't think buying or leasing an SUV makes these people stupid. They are already stupid and incredibly sheeplike. Have to buy a McMansion on the hill, a membership to the trendy gym, carry a Prada purse, congregate at the local coffee bar for an overpriced latte, and generally thumb their noses at everybody else. It's epidemic around here.

[AlCzervik]

15. i'm in northern Ca. and it's about the same here

although i do see some neighbors trading their land yachts for something a little smaller. My next door neighbor and his wife both had the big Ford Explorers, i can't recall the model name but they were large, she traded hers for a nissan mini-van and he traded his for a used Toyota sedan of some sort.

[IrateCitizen]

21. It's the same in Westchester County, NY...

You see all of the glorified station wagons, the suburban warriors in their oversized land tanks shuttling kids to soccer games or driving the 1 mile to the grocery store. It's sickening, to be honest.

[AlCzervik]

25. you knows kind of funny, when i got my 4cyl Honda accord last year

the first thing that neighbor asked me was--"What kind of gas milage do get with that car?"

[BlueJazz]

19. I used to live in California ....

(Several cities...when I was a Studio Musician for CBS)..and you
hit the nail on the proverbial head...I mean, half the people spend
80 percent of their "thinking skills" on how and what will other people think...Sick..Sick..and sad.. :)

[LibDemAlways]

36. I saw a perfect example of the

follow the sheep mentality when I volunteered at my daughter's middle school registration yesterday. Each parent was asked, "Which number should we call first to try to reach you in case your child becomes ill during the day?" Without fail the women, none of whom work outside the home (no problem with that, I'm a stay-at-home mom, too) said "my cell." I had to laugh picturing these women who live in 3500 sq. foot monstrosities abandoning them all day every day to roam the streets alone in their monster trucks heading for Starbucks, the gym, the mall, the tanning salon, the juice bar. Thousands of gallons of gas wasted on purposeless lives. You are right - sick..sick...and sad.

[Kingshakabobo]

65. So it's not cool to give out your cell number for emergencies?

I suppose you would prefer they call your house and leave you a voice-mail if your daughter gets very ill while you are at, say, a doctor's appointment?

This is an SUV bashing thread not a cell phone bashing thread. Get with the program.

[LibDemAlways]

77. Of course you should give out your cell phone

number for emergencies. That's a given. But the fact that these suburban women would tell the school to try the cell FIRST, before the home landline, indicates to me that they expect to be out driving the SUV around during the day doing God knows what. Believe me when I tell you Stepford had nothing on this community and those activities exist largely of workouts at the gym and playing bunco in the homes of like minded sheep.

[xultar]

14. I have a SUV.

[Ripley]

20. WELL YOU AND ME ARE STOOPID...duuuuuuh.

And we are selfish. And we are fucking up all the people of the world.

It's all our fault. Let's make a vow to kill our selves right now.

[IrateCitizen]

26. Arguments grounded in emotionalism are rarely effective...

Of course, I would be more than willing to listen to the reasons why you feel you need an SUV. And I'd also be willing to bet that any of those reasons could probably be met by using another type of vehicle.

Of course, you could also be that rare person for whom an SUV is actually necessary. But the truth is, the overwhelming majority of them are status symbols, and those who purchase them as such often twist themselves into emotional and rhetorical contortions to convince themselves and others that it is not the case.

[Ripley]

30. Who are you to tell me I should drive a freaking minivan?

Now, I'm emotional huh? Did you catch the title of the OP?

I do use the vehicle. If you knew me you would know status means jackshit to me. But broad brushes fly around DU...

[IrateCitizen]

34. Where did I tell you that you should drive a minivan???

I didn't. Rather, you're saying I did in order to disingenuously bolster your argument. What I said was that you probably could meet your needs with a different type of vehicle.

But hey, it's totally up to you what you want to do. Just as it's totally up to me as to whether I ignore it or comment on it. If you've got such a problem with someone criticizing your choice on an anonymous internet discussion board, I would say that that is your problem, not mine.

[Scout]

71. Ripley, you better run out right now

and sell both your vehicles, and by an approved, teeny little hybrid car. You are a bad liberal!
:spank:


How much do hybrid cars cost these days?

[Kingshakabobo]

61. Would you mind giving me a list of your possessions

so I can determine what you need and don't need. I bet there are a few cut-backs that you can make.

For instance, I see by your profile that you enjoy snowboarding and mountain biking. Hmmmm I'm sure those "hobbies" don't do any damage to the environment or destroy any natural resources. Don't you think all those mountains would have been better off without having their trees clear-cut so a bunch of yuppie snobs could ride their trendy snowboards and bicycles down a hill. Not to mention all the trees that had to be clear-cut for roads and ski-lifts so you can practice your bourgeois hobbies. Talk about hypocrisy.

[IrateCitizen]

68. No problem...

I actually don't snowboard anymore. I used to when I was single, but I don't now that I'm married. It's hugely expensive and -- as you point out, environmentally destructive. This winter my wife and I are going to get snowshoes instead.

As for mountain biking, I'm a singletrack rider. I ride in areas that have narrow trails cut through the woods, rather than anything approaching clear-cut. I also own a road bike and use it to do most of my errands around town. I'll readily admit that I enjoy cycling, and I think that in the grand scheme of things, it's one of the less-destructive hobbies you can have -- plus, my bikes also serve a practical purpose.

My wife and I live in a 2-BR co-op in a town. We walk most places we need to go. I drive a 1996 Honda Civic (when I do drive, as I commute by train to the city), and my wife has a 2001 VW Cabrio. We started raising a small organic garden in our backyard this year. We consciously try to cut back on our meat consumption and eat only organic foods. We certainly have more possessions than we need, but it's more the combination of both of our sets of possessions coming together after we got married than actively seeking to accumulate new stuff. We readily shop at tag sales and pick up stuff second-hand.

Is my life perfect? Hardly. I am still a hypocrite in some ways and aware of it. But those areas that I'm aware of, I'm making the effort to minimize as much as I reasonably can and not completely piss off my wife.

[Kingshakabobo]

78. Oh, so that's the way it is? You no longer snowboard ......

after I called you on AND it's still in your profile. Hmmm. Anyway you slice it, you, at the very least, are (were)complicit in the destruction of countless trees because of your (former?) bourgeois hobbies.

The rest of your life sounds very Jesus like. You will be rewarded in heaven. :)

[IrateCitizen]

80. I'll edit my profile just for you...

;-)

And no, I'm not "Jesus-like". I'm simply trying to reduce my own impact on the earth, and when someone presents me with facts showing that certain things I do are having a negative impact, I don't start by throwing up my hands and ignoring the facts.

[no_to_war_economy]

81. I have to admit I did this post

just to draw out the SUV defenders

the other point was to spread the writing of Mark Morford, he is genius

hang tough you "jesus-like" DUer!

[LSK]

74. I have an SUV too

I live in Chicago so the 4x4 is nice in Winter. But I like to vacation in Colorado and go on jeep trails. I also like to carry my mountain bike in the back of my SUV. I have moved lots of lumber and supplies when my sister was building a garage. I have also hauled engines, transmissions, sofas, a giant TV, a dining table set, a bunch of computers I got in another state, and I when I moved I hauled most of my stuff in my SUV. I have never towed anything, but it does have a tow rating of 5000lbs. It also has a seating capacity of 4. It is also PAID FOR.

An SUV is a useful vehicle. Yes it has its downside in that it only gets 15mpg.

My SUV is a 1994 GMC Jimmy that isnt worth maybe $2000 on a trade-in but runs just fine. So why should I spend $25000 on a new vehicle that will not be able to do everything my beatup old SUV can do???

If they made an SUV that can do all that and get over 20 MPG and cost less than $20k, I might consider it, but they dont.

[Montauk6]

87. It's like this, IrateCitizen.

Take your pick:

SUVs
Cellphones (incl. ringtones, use in inappropriate places, etc.)
Tattoos/Piercings
Reality TV
Loud boomboxes/subwoofers
Voting Republican (for anyone NOT in the 1 percentile)
Religion
Smoking

No matter how well-founded your argument against any of these, you're always going to get the clingers who'll feel instantly victimized and eventually throw the N-word in your face (this time, I'm talking "Nazi"). "If the shoe fits..." never suffices for these people. So, it's a waste trying to convince them otherwise.

How much you wanna bet the author of that article received at least 1 death threat?

[xultar]

35. Lets. We are evil bastards who fill our tanks with blood and we're

murderers who drive on the back of innocents everytime we turn our key.

[TX-RAT]

46. It gets worse.

How would they feel if they knew we had an 03 Z-71 an 03 Tahoe and heaven forbid, a 04 GTO (my wifes car, and damn-it she won't let me drive it). Theres a hanging in my future, for sure.

Personally i don't give a rats ass whether somebody approves of my vehicles or not. They want to drive an electric, good for them, they want to drive a Hy-brid, good for them. I promise, as soon as they build an electric or a hy-brid thats got 300hp can pull my equipment and Horse trailers up and down the mountains to the race track and back, and cost the same to purchase and operate, I'm all over it.

It's gonna be a long wait.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. Guess I am STOOPID , TOO!

It's all my fault and I shall go kill myself right now! :silly: These SUV bashing threads are really tiresome.

[CornField]

22. As do I

If someone can point me to any of the low-mileage specks that can make their way through 6-foot brush, I'll be more than happy to make a trade-in.

[TX-RAT]

28. Or pull my 32ft horse trailer up the mountains to Ruidoso NM.

[SonofMass]

16. I just love to blow there doors off in my Enzo.

[Atman]

24. This argument must stop. Or change.

Seriously. This is a piss-poor argument, as "SUV" is a near meaningless term, except when it is used as a term of derision. But it ignores many facts. One is that many mini-vans and even new cars are larger than entire classes of "SUV's." I don't see you out protesting agains minivans? Or Ford 500's, or Dodge Hemi's. Also, many of us don't have the luxury of car-hopping. I own a "small" or "standard" SUV -- I don't even know what the classifications are anymore, but I do know that when I sit at an intersection, minivans are taller than me, mininvans are longer then my SUV, I actually feel as if I am in a "small" vehicle. And if I could drive it in and get a hybrid, I'd do it tomorrow...do you have $5000 for a downpayment for me? And a solution for how I transport my gear afterwards?

This SUV argument is a red herring. It is bogus. Bitch about gas hogs -- new Chryslers with massive V-8's, Ford F-250's, or specifically, "Large SUVS's like the Excursion, Escalade or Hummer." But stop this fanatical, misguided condemnation of an entire class of vehicles that is so muddled and filled with exceptions as to render your point useless. Some people drive an SUV simply because it is what they owned when Bush fucked up the world, not because they're ignorant rubes trying to make a political statement about how much they love oil.

[CornField]

27. Excellent

Can't add a thing to it, except applause. Thank you.

[no_to_war_economy]

29. minivans are a much BETTER choice than

the large land tanks, vans are safer get better gas mileage and spew less toxins

[Atman]

33. How does a minivan spew less toxins?

Makes no sense. Two gas-burning engines, both V-6's, both newer vehicles. Are you refering simply to CAFE standards? The "truck" moniker? Are you broad-brushing "mini-vans," as I got rid of a Ford Windstar, which sucked up just as much gas as the S-10 size SUV which replaced it. Please explain.

Notice, again, "large land tanks" is used to describe SUV's, completely ignoring entire classes of "SUV's" like small Hyundais, etc.

You paint with a very road brush, my friend. A very broad brush. How about some specifics?

[no_to_war_economy]

40. look it up

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/

i am very pleased with my minivan choice

[Atman]

43. Send me the money for the downpayment

And take the "SUV" off my hands. Then come over and cart all my gear up to the woods for me. Thanks. When can I expect your check? And, I'll need to leave for camp around 5 pm today...can you be here around 4:00 to help me load all the stuff into the two smaller vehicles it will take to haul my stuff? Thanks. You're a hell of a guy! I've always wanted to know someone with all the answers!

[marbuc]

54. My brother had a Dodge Caravan

and it was a gas guzzling POS. His compact SUV (Honda CRV) performs far better, with better gas mileage. I recently bought a CRV, and am very happy with the mileage, which is a considerable improvement over that of my previous CAR, a Chevy Baretta.

So do make a distinction within the "SUV" class. There are some that are worse than others, but just because a vehicle is called an SUV, doesn't mean it is a gas guzzling tank.

I think to some extent this blanket hatred is fueled by jealously and/or ignorance to the facts. I like my SUV, and will continue to drive it until I need another. Hopefully by the the hybrid/alternative fuel vehicle market will be booming.

[IrateCitizen]

59. Or maybe, peak oil will have taken hold enough...

... that nobody except the uber-rich will be able to afford to drive SUV's, and most people won't be able to afford to drive much of anything.... :shrug:

[Gidney N Cloyd]

44. Safety standards for minivans were very lax until fairly recently.

[txindy]

32. Excellent

Concise and pointed rebuttal. :applause:

[IrateCitizen]

38. You're right... but it's just so damned cathartic to rage about SUV's...

... when you live in suburban Westchester County, NY like I do and see the brain-dead suburban warriors driving their single-occupant H2's, Navigators, Escalades, and whatever other damned behemoth you can think of for a 2 mile round trip to the local A&P grocery, when the biggest chance for them to go offroad is if they accidentally back over the flower bed while leaving the driveway!

:rant:

[Atman]

45. Agreed...but that is a different discussion

You are talking about ignorant people, not SUV's.

[ultraist]

63. Oh, right. The people of Westchester are real idiots. (It's heavily Dem)

Yes, they primarily are wealthy, SUV drivers who live in big houses.

I suppose it doesn't matter that Kerry won that county by 58% and that Westchester has more Dems than any other region in NY, aside from NYC and Albany.
:eyes:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Westchester-County,-New-York

In fact, Westchester, after New York City and Albany has produced the biggest margains for statewide Democrats in recent years. Democratic voters are mainly in the southern and central parts of the county. 58% of Westchester County voters chose John Kerry in the U.S. presidential election of November 2004, the highest total of any county outside New York City and Albany.

[IrateCitizen]

69. I don't give a shit if it's Dem or Repub!

The fact of the matter is that a large number of the people in Westchester live very wasteful lives, live in oversized houses, and drive extra-large vehicles for routine trips around town. I live there -- I should know.

The area is consumed with money and status. It's one thing that jumps out to someone like me, raised in a rural area that was relatively egalitarian, and to be honest I can't wait to leave Westchester and move up to Ulster County (New Paltz, Woodstock, represented by Maurice Hinchey) after I complete my second education for a teaching certificate.

This has nothing to do with "Democrat" or "Republican". Talk about tangents! :eyes:

[ultraist]

76. It has to do with whether or not SUV drivers are stupid

I'd say voting for Repukes is both selfish and stupid. Supporting policies that adversely affect 90% of the population and trash the environment is really fucking dumb.

The voters of Westchester, on the other hand, seem to be a bit smarter than the wealthy, narcissistic Repuke voters who care ONLY about their own interests.

[IrateCitizen]

79. The same argument could be made for personal consumption choices...

I'd say voting for Repukes is both selfish and stupid. Supporting policies that adversely affect 90% of the population and trash the environment is really fucking dumb.

Like the time I saw RFK Jr. in Belizzi's Pizzeria and Restaurant in my town, and his oversized Acura SUV was parked outside.

And I also know that RFK Jr. lives in an area where he has to drive EVERYWHERE he wants to go, as opposed to getting out and walking and/or riding a bike, as I do.

So, while I support much of his environmental advocacy, I take issue with his personal consumption choices that, in some instances, may actually harm the environment MORE in the long run.

Clear?

[xultar]

39. Brilliant!

[ArkDem]

52. You are making too much sense. Everyone will hate you.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. Finally! Well said!

:applause:

[ernstbass]

60. thank you for your excellent post

I'm in total agreement with everything you said.

[LibDemAlways]

70. When I think SUV, I'm thinking of

the giant behemoths 80% of the people in my suburban community own - or more typically, lease. I'm talking Escalades, Armadas, Excursions, Suburbans, even Hummers. People drive these big overblown pieces of shit for no other reason than they guy next door has one and they'd rather die than be left out.

Its the suburban sheep mentality run amok.

[Atman]

82. That is the real point, I guess...what the hell is an SUV?

That is the gist of it. Read my first reply...my issue is not with the driving of extra-large vehicles, or minivans...it is with the propensity to call anything and everything an "SUV," when the label now covers everything from Subura wagons to Hyundais to S-10's all the way up to the original Hummers. It is like saying "drinking will kill you." No it won't. Drinking to exess will kill you. Downing a 2 liter bottle of Popov in ten minutes will kill you. Having a glass of wine will not, however both activities are "drinking."

My rant is about the labeling, or MIS-labeling, of all SUVs as inherently eeeevil.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

37. I have a 2002 Saturn Vue.

It is/was the most appropriate vehicle for me after a careful evaluation of my needs.
Ugly? Maybe.
Do I take it on dirt roads? No, but it's fantastic on Chicago's winter roads and is extremely stable in the rain.
Gas guzzler? It gets virtually the same MPG as a comparably equipped Camry, Altima, Maxima, Taurus, Passat, and others in that sedan class.
I'm a little tired of being lumped in with Hummers and Suburbans and Navigators by people who don't take the time to get a clue.

[bunkerbuster1]

41. "The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."

Great line from Repo Man, and true more often than not.

[Zenaholic]

42. Its not just SUVs, cars make us stupid too.

Ever know anyone that drives their car to the mailbox? How about across the mall parking lot to get closer to the next store in their consumption adventure?

Some of the people that are so against SUVs, never stop to think how their own driving habits are fucking up the planet almost as much as the soccer moms who drive an SUV to go pick up their McDonald's happy meals.

As Socrates said "Know thy self"

[Im with Rosey]

48. Okay, time to fess up

10 years ago we bought a new SUV, Explorer to be exact. At that time my daughter was 7, my son was 14. I have to admit it was extremely handy to have all the room for all their stuff. Fast forward 10 years, my daughter drives that same SUV, she has a sh*tload of stuff in it all the time. Stuff she actually needs on a day-to-day basis. She plays highly competitive softball and high school golf. The back of her Explorer is always FULL. She works extremely hard in school,she is a 4.4 student, she is well-thought of by her peers and adults, she is being recruited to play competitive softball in college by top universities and finally, she is the next generation of democrats, very well-spoken about the political system and what she stands for and believes in. She also LOVES her SUV. Does that make her a terrible person, does that make us terrible for having bought it originally? Just because a person drives a particular vehicle does not make them bad. We buy from only blue companies, we participate in lively debate, we write to our Senators in support and/or disagreement, she went to her first protest to support Cindy, we do everything we can. Because 10 years ago, we made a choice, by the way, it was the first new car I had in 10+ years, 10 years later she is evil for driving an SUV? I don't think that we as DUers should automatically assume that specific things make us guilty of anything, we sink to their level when we make assumptions. Let the flames begin.

[no_to_war_economy]

50. this is about POSEURS

if you have a horse trailer or get with nature and drive in the woods, relax, your not stupid but the suv choice was one you decided to make

this post is about the stupid people who pick SUVs because they are stupid

[ArkDem]

88. Do these people know the difference between a pronoun and

a contraction?

[Halliburton]

51. depends on the gas mileage

if you're driving an SUV that gets pretty good gas mileage like a Honda CRV then I don't think you're stupid.

If you're driving a gas hog like a Ford Expedition or a Hummer, then I do think you're stupid.

[newportdadde]

56. My wife and I thought about an SUV or Mini-van.

She is pregnant with twins and we already have a 19 month old. I have to admit we were tempted lately with the 'employee pricing' but we have decided to just get by in our 2001 Buick for now. Thats right we are going to do 3 kids in carseats all at the same time in a Sedan *gasp*. It won't be as handy as an SUV or Minivan would have but can't justify the costs of trading in a sub 40k mile car thats paid for and picking up a payment to boot in this economy.

As far as SUV drivers being stupid, well I got cutoff in the rain my a midsize Sedan yesterday so stupidity comes from all types of drivers. Personally I have found SUV drivers to be more irritating then most, but the most abnoxious are the 25-40 year olds in the brand new F-150s or more recently the chrome wheeled Dodge Rams(with Hemi) commuting to a desk job.

[La Coliniere]

57. No,

but the folks who purchase them because: they've bought in to the bogus notion that they are somehow safer than regular automobiles, or who purchase them because they need one "to feel like a complete person", or who have no UTILITARIAN purpose for owning one, are pretty stupid already.

[DelawareValleyDem]

62. They have their uses

but not needing a vehicle that specialized, I'd never buy one, particularly since the more behemoth ones cost a fortune. If I'm going to spend that much on a vehicle, I'm going to expect a high level of acceleration, handling and braking performance an SUV can't deliver.

[goforit]

64. No ...but mad cow steak and pork does.

[Scout]

67. no, but sometimes NOT driving one can make a person

become a rude, arrogant dickhead. Not always, but sometimes.

Wonder why that is?

[October]

84. No, my driveway makes me stupid

See, I live in the NE part of the country. Our driveway is 350 feet of hill, with an 18% grade near the bottom. It's hilly in our area, as we live near a river. Anyway, every road in our community is single-lane and winding. There are no cabs, no busses, etc.

For many, many winters, I parked and trudged uphill with groceries, kids, etc. My kids, btw, also play sports and participate in other activities and frankly I end up needing more seats than the average AWD sedan provides -- my SUV has 7 seats. (I've yet to see a mini-van make it up our driveway in the winter. UPS got sideways one year.)

So, I drive the Volvo SUV. Mea culpa. It's bigger than I want, but we use every bit of it. My husband coaches football from August - November, so all those 'dummy bags' and shoulder pads and other equipment fit in the back very nicely, still leaving room for the children.

I'm open to suggestions.

[no_to_war_economy]

86. another snip from article

Look. I know many people who own SUVs. Good people. Lovely people. Friends. Family. I know their arguments for owning them. I know that they know, deep down, that most of those arguments hold little sway and most are rather hollow and the result of slick marketing and just a little bit of fear.