Mercenary Body Count

[Nevilledog]

I like to think I keep myself pretty updated with reading DU, but one thing I don't think I've ever seen is any sort of body count for the group of mercenaries our tax money is paying for. Why not? How big is it?

I think the admin is screwed no matter what the body count is...if it's high, then they have to justify why these paid mercenaries are deployed in areas where they're getting popped, and what actually IS their role. It also would show how many of OUR people, have actually been killed. If the count is low, then how do they explain why the mercs are better armored, etc., and manage to stay alive?

Anybody have any info about this?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Welcome to DU. Good questions and I hope someone has the answers

[Nevilledog]

3. Thanks.

Been around since the election. DU has kept me sane.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. DU keeps us all sane! *hugs*

[bemildred]

2. I saw an estimate of "over 200". nt

[Nevilledog]

4. Guess merc deaths are right up there with Iraqi's...

they're not important enough to keep track of. I can't say that I'm particularly sympathetic to the mercs, but I think the majority of Americans have NO idea the role they are playing in this war. It just seems so wrong.... and really supports a lot of our opinions that this war is all about the money... who's getting rich.

[Crunchy Frog]

5. Icasualties has a list.

http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

It's probably the best you will find. I don't think there is any comprehensive list. There's no way to know how many have died and not been reported. This may be one reason they're using so many of them, it artificially keeps the death count down since they don't have to report mercs the way they do military personel. That, and they don't have to follow any rules or have any accountability.

[leftchick]

6. mercs are not counted. the US Military won't allow it.

This is the only site where I have seen them counted at all..

http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

[Nevilledog]

9. I'm gonna have to call bullshit.

Thanks so much Crunch Frog and leftchick. There is just no way that list can be accurate. I do, however, understand it's not the fault of the website, I have no doubt they include what information they can confirm.

Just looking at some of their job descriptions makes my skin crawl. Security contractor... gee, can that be any more vague?

Also, does anyone know HOW many mercs are there? That's a figure I'd love to have. Then compare that number with the guesstimate of how many have died.

Bottom line. We all know they have better equipment. Why is our money paying to protect them, but not our enlisted soldiers? WHY??????????

[leftchick]

20. The numbers are BS because they are not accountable

for anything. Lives or US Dollars. here is an excellent piece from 2 weeks ago in the NYT magazine...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081405E.shtml

[Nevilledog]

21. Outstanding article. Thank you for the link.

Long, but fact-filled article. Certainly more info than I've seen before. Sorry if I missed it on DU. If it hadn't been posted, great catch leftchick.

[pocket]

8. does a soldier who reenlists for a $150,000 bonus count as a merc?

That's what SF guys are getting right now.

[Nevilledog]

10. No shit? How many takers? That's a huge amount!

[pocket]

11. tax free, too, if they do it in the middle east

.

[Nevilledog]

14. Just imagine the desperation.....

Actually, it's hard to imagine being in that position. We're hearing here that vets are having difficulty even finding a job after they're separated. If you had people to support, no great job prospects.... how would you resist that amount? Having to decide the value of your life....horrifying.

[glitch]

12. I think mercenaries and soldiers w/o US citizenship but promised

citizenship if they join the military are among the numbers not counted. Hence the big discrepancy between "US Military Deaths" and actual combatant body counts.
(Of course they don't bother to count civilian deaths at all.)

[hack89]

27. I disagree about the non-citizens..

do you have an example?

[glitch]

33. Nope. Perhaps you could provide one. nt

[hack89]

39. There are none - it doesn't happen n/t

[Rainscents]

13. I do know for fact that, they are Mercenary Casuallty... I believe,

60 minutes did three year Iraq invasion this past spring and they did mention there were many Mercenary Caualties.... They didn't give out the numbers.

[Mnemosyne]

23. This site says 283 "contractor deaths",

http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

[Nevilledog]

24. That number includes more than just Americans....

... course, guess with mercs it's not so much the nationality as the company you're working for.

[Mnemosyne]

40. Been seeing that they advertise overseas and

and the pay is ticking off the soldiers.
Why are merc's guarding the generals? Hasn't this always been soldier's job? I wonder.

I'm starting to watch the casualty list. It seems off a bit from what I've been observing in death reports. We'll see.

[Nevilledog]

15. Do you think most Americans even know about the mercs???

And if they do, why aren't they outraged by it? Our money to pay for people we have no control over, doing things we can't stop. Disgusting.


Plus, has there even been an explanation of WHY we don't keep civilian body counts? I know the practical reason why we don't... hard to justifying killing all those people we're "liberating"... guess we're providing the ultimate "liberation" for tons. But what's the official reason? Why doesn't anyone care? I thought we "loved" the Iraqi people. Why don't we care when they're killed?

I guess by not counting we don't have to justify those innocents we have killed, but we lose the chance to justify the violence against the "insurgents" by reporting how many innocents they have killed.

[nittacci]

16. I'd like to see more mercenary info, too

I'd also like to see a really thorough article about the use of mercenaries in Iraq with all the stats. Death counts, average payments per man, where they're employed, who they work for, etc.

[Nevilledog]

18. Absolutely. That's info I'd like too. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

22. Check out this Frontline program, Private Warriors.

You can watch it online here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/

[Nevilledog]

25. Thanks... looks very interesting! n/t

[newyawker99]

38. Hi nittacci!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[formercia]

17. Sorry I looked

Found the name of an EOD tech I used to know. He was good, one of the best, but an IED got him first. RIP

[Nevilledog]

19. Wow, I'm so sorry you found that.

Did you even know he was over there?

[formercia]

30. No, I hadn't talked with him in several years

He was one of the good guys

[Nevilledog]

31. That's just a shame... I'm so sorry. n/t

[pitohui]

26. i dunno but contractors were getting kidnapped, killed like crazy 4 awhile

remember all those dudes getting their heads cut off

many of them were mercenaries, contractors as they're now called

[Redstone]

28. Yes, and the ignorant American public was all up in arms.

"Those dirtbag Iraqis are killing poor, innocent civilians and hanging their bodies from a bridge!!!!"

Those "innocent civiians" wer not doctors or nurses or schoolteachers or electricians or plumbers.

Those "innocent civilians" were in a fucking combat zone, they were armed, and wearing military-style cothing and body armor.

They were driving down the street, waving their fucking rifles out of the windows of their SUV.

Thought they were fucking tough guys, didn't they?

Found out they weren't the toughest guys around, didn't they?

Fuck 'em. They got what they deserved.

Redstone

[Nevilledog]

29. Redstone....

... but, can you tell us how you really feel? lol

I can't bring myself to say they got what they deserved... but, no one should be surprised at the outcome, especially them.

My interest is just piqued by who these people are. Are they all retired soldiers? If they're fit enough to be private security, why the hell aren't they in the armed forces? And why aren't the RWidiots calling them traitors for fighting for the money, not the flag?

[Horse with no Name]

35. The one that I know

was a former soldier who was also groomed for the Secret Service.
His contract was with the Marines (each branch hires their own--budgetary reasons I guess).
I have seen some pics of him over there.
Most notably is a pic of him and his colleagues sitting in a hulled out Suburban--all of them have sub machine guns on their laps.
He is one of the best looking guys I have ever seen, however, he has absolutely no ties. He has a mother. No kids, no wife, no steady girlfriend.
His favorite place in the world is Beirut.
He likes the nightlife there.
He has done this for years.
If you met him on the street you would never know what he does for a living and he wouldn't tell you if you asked. He is very educated.
He answers only to the top.

[mitchum]

37. Absolutely!

I agree with you completely

[Blue_Tires]

32. most merc operations are strictly hush-hush

so usually only the family finds out...the companies themselves have no legal obligation to publicly disclose any fatalities, iirc (work-related or other)

[Horse with no Name]

34. I know a "contractor"

He has made so much money over there he couldn't spend it all.
He has been a bodyguard to several of the visiting dignitaries.
However...he got back in November and refuses to go back.
His work has always been his first love...but now it's over.
He doesn't talk about it at all. Can't even get vague answers when you ask questions.
I hope someday he will open up.
He won't say a bad word about this administration...but he won't say a good word either. That's a huge change.

[mitchum]

36. I guess they could BUY my sympathy

I'm sure they would have understood