Evangelicals feel persecuted, even with recent wins

[pstokely]

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Aug/20050827Feat004.asp

By RACHEL ZOLL of The Associated Press
Published Saturday, August 27, 2005
To outsiders, conservative Christians seem at the peak of their influence.

Books by evangelical pastors Rick Warren and Joel Osteen are multimillion best-sellers, megachurches are building satellite congregations to meet demand, conservatives control Congress and, most importantly, religious activists helped put a Bible-believer in the White House.

Yet, many evangelicals still consider themselves a persecuted majority, hounded by "secular fundamentalists" intent on driving religion from public life.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. I get so tired of this nonsense

These people don't know persecution. I'm a Christian and have never been "persecuted" for being a Christian. Being a liberal is a whole nother story of course. I think these people take things for graunteed. I wonder if they would like living in Afghainstan.

[madeline_con]

7. I work with people who....

say things like, "Our closest living relatives are in danger of extinction," and then laugh when a news story about gorillas is on.

When told the word "Allah" is used by Arabic speakers of all faiths, and means "God", say, "I don't believe they worship the same God we do."

When told to look up the Crusades after saying Muslims want to kill non-Muslims, they express surprise and disbelief at the very idea of Christians killing other people in the Crusades.

Excuse me while I go :puke:

[fishwax]

2. they'll never be satisfied

and fueling this persecution complex is way too successful for the gop to ever let it end ...

[niyad]

3. wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nothing like playing the victim so that people, they HOPE, won't notice that the "victims" are screwing everyone else

[More Than A Feeling]

4. Shock o' shocks

This Christian doesn't think that certain of my brothers and sisters will ever be happy until they have all the power they crave (which is all the power there is) and the rest of us are groaning under their yoke or burning in hell.

They can be so insecure. This guy seems to know what is up, though:

"Eddie Gibbs, professor of church growth at Fuller Theological Seminary, a top evangelical school in Pasadena, Calif., said loss of influence in the broader culture is behind the frustration that persists no matter how many lawmakers Christian activists help elect.

"The idea that you are at the center of society, you’re a foundational institution, there’s been a move away from that," said Gibbs, who thinks evangelicals are misunderstood but not persecuted.

"I think the church is struggling to regain that, which in my personal view ain’t gonna happen," he said."

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

19. My thoughts exactly!

The Romans didn't feed um to the lions for their theology, they did it because the zelots were a pain in the ass, just like today.

[AlCzervik]

6. It's in their best $$$ interest to cry "Persecution" gets the faithful

into pews and keeps the collection plate full, after all--the persecuted love company.

[DemGirl7]

8. Boo F%&$ng Hoo

they aren't persecuted, they are crazy nutcases who want to shove the Bible down everyone's throats, and they can't deal with the fact that other religions and beliefs exist out in the REAL world.

[msongs]

9. its guilt - they do NOT really believe their religion but have to in

order to placate family, church, etc, kinda like the closet homosexuals that go around beating up out of the closet gays to cover for their own true feelings. could be some other reasons too.

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[jsamuel]

10. I am sure the NAZI's felt persecuted by the Jews too

even when they had control of 6 countries...

in fact, neo-nazi's today are just like that.

[Servant]

11. You know, it is funny

The more theocratic the Government gets, the more overretaliation there is to Christians, mostly evangelicals. I can see the difference between pushing Secularism and pushing Atheism, and if you ask me, those who push for secularism seem to be pushing more Government Atheism, rather than Secularism.

[niyad]

huhhhhhh?

[jsamuel]

16. ditto

[The Icon Painter]

50. Whaaaaa?

Could you possibly clarify your statement? This sounds like something the Coward in Crawford might say.

[Union Thug]

12. Oh boo hoo. Pray to super ghost a little harder, maybe he'll

end the persecution.

or maybe, it's super-ghost's will and they should shut the hell up and let super-ghost's plan take its course.

The lord works in mysterious ways, dontcha know.

[really annoyed]

13. Oh, this line is funny!

..."religious activists helped put a Bible-believer in the White House."


OK, so NO other President in the history of the United States was a Bible-believer?



:wtf:

[really annoyed]

15. One more thing....

:nopity:

[Taxloss]

44. Jimmy Carter springs nimbly to mind.

He was backed by many evangelicals.

[Erika]

14. They want this country a theocracy

and will complain every second it isn't.

[jonnyblitz]

17. they need to persecuted for crimes against humanity. nt

[MisterP]

18. persecution complexes are VITAL to a rightist worldview

there's always uppity blacks, wimmin, immigrants, etc.

[AnnieBW]

20. Victimhood Brings In More Cash

Evangelical Christianity thrives on victimhood. It appeals to people who feel disenfranchised because of whatever reason. Telling people that the Big Bad Secular Humanists are picking on them because they're Christians is much more profitable than coming out and saying that they're going to overthrow the Constitution of the United States and replace it with a theocracy.

[MADem]

21. Organized whining, it is so much more fun to do it as a group! n/t

[DinahMoeHum]

22. Buncha fuckin' crybabies. "Persecuted majority" my ass.

:nopity:

[Perky]

23. Actually what it is that they are told they are persecuted

By people trying to sell them books or rally them to some cause.

Much about what the fundies want is a sense of relevance in a world they feel estranged from. But that is the problem with their histrioincs....They are supposed to feel estranged,, they are not supposed to fit in
Many, thougt I am not sure I would say most, fundies have forgotten that they are supposed to be set apart... a city chining on a hill.

Many have traded in evangelical tracts for the political soapbox. They see the state as an instrument to enforce a morality because it is easier then let their lives be a testimony to the redemption they were given.

They have traded in the power of the Holy Spirit for the power of fear because they view it as more effective for their ambitions. It is no logger about Jesu....its about raw, naked power,, where the ends always justifies the means.


When they do this as opposed to their first calling they create substantial dividing walls between themselves and the un-churched. That is the saddest part of it in my view. In Jesus's day they were called Pharisees; today we call them Republicans.

It is they who are willing to cast the first stone.

It is they who can't fathom how a CHristian could be a Democrat.

In their rush for relevance,, they have forgotten that the meek shall inherit.

[RevCheesehead]

27. good insight, perky.

I would add that many conservative evangelicals tend to fall into the psychological trap of triangulation. They need to be a victim, so they can have a rescuer to punish whomever the "enemy du jour" is.

Saw this coming when the Berlin wall fell - "who will be the next evil empire?" It's like they can't function without it.

[Gman]

24. When I see a lion taking a piece out of one of their asses

I might start thinking they're persecuted.

[mitchum]

32. Hell, I'll start cheering on the lion

Gimme that ol' time religion!

[AgadorSparticus]

25. Persecution is their only shtick. How else could they get sympathy

and money? What an emotional, mental, spiritual, and monetary scam.

[mduffy31]

26. Question

When exactly does the Christian Persecution complex end, they have been in charge since....Constatine in the third century, so just relax and enjoy it. --Jon Stewart

[wli]

28. we already live in a theocracy! wtf more do they want?

Maybe it's time they actually were hounded by secular fundamentalists. At this point, they deserve the persecution they so feverishly imagine.

[PurityOfEssence]

29. If you duck when they throw a Bible at your head, you've attacked them

They claim the right to own the world, so if you get in the way of that, you've attacked their little baby Jesus. They're entitled to total world dominance, and any impediment is persecution.

[kodi]

30. Jesus was persecuted, these folks are just infantile.

Any Christians getting thrown to lions in the US for sport?

It is a response from some religious minded people to the disinclination of civil society itself to incorporate the incomprehensible (mysteries of their faith) along with the comprehensible (materialism/rationalism) as necessary constituents of the world.

Those who believe that the world can not be explained merely by the comprehensible, those who cherish the idea of the ineffability of "God's secrets" are often scorned openly as superstitious where only critically established understanding possesses value.

If that is discrimination it is the discrimination arising from the ability to discern the difference between chicken salad and chicken shit.

[mitchum]

31. Fuck them...they can all go to their imaginary hell

[Perky]

36. Thank you ever so much fpr empitomizing the main reason

Christians are leery of Deomcrats.


Insensitive statements like that just do so much good for the party's enfranchisement of the 70 of americans who believe in a heaven and hell.

[mitchum]

37. Evangelical "christians" are leery of Democrats because they...

have been told to be so by the pulpit-dwelling grifters who are picking their pockets. My "insensitive statement" has no bearing on this. Unless you know something that I don't, I have little sway with these people. Furthermore, it's not MY faith that has been hijacked by these sons of bitches. The burden is on YOU to take YOUR faith back from them.
It's not my fault that 70% of my fellow citizens are of a superstitious bent. Notice that I DIDN'T call them stupid...

I stand by my original statement.

[Perky]

39. As a Christian I am taught to be tolerant and forgiving

No one has hijacked my faith.. They do not have my faith! I do not need to take it back from them!
This lesson and this way of living ardently is not within you capacity.

The fact that you think someone's faith can be hijacked by these charlatans and pharisees further suggest a gross stereotyping of those Jews, Christian, Mormons and Muslims who ardently believe in a Heaven and Hell.

I don't deny you the right to an opinion that runs contrary to mine. I certainly am not the type to Bash people over the head with my Bible.

To suggest that all CHristians should sit down ans shut up...while you blather on without regret is utterly as hypocritical as these zealots who preach hate.

I am not justifying their tactics in the least, But don;t think you can insult all of us and think you have a right when you are not willing to grant me the decency of a right to to challenge your generalizations.

[mitchum]

41. But they HAVE hijacked...

the name/mantle/brand/image/whatever of your faith. Perhaps not the actual sincere faith itself (you will note my use of quotation marks around "christian" when referring to those avaricious evangelicals), but you are being disingenuous or foolish if you refuse to acknowledge or realize that is what they are doing. Their duplicity and corruption is not only done in the name of God and Christ, but also in YOUR name. Odd that you feel that my "intolerance" will somehow tar the image of Democrats, but you can't see that they are also doing the same to you Christians. Odd, indeed.
My non-believing dog is not in this fight, but he still can't get any sleep due to the relentless barking and whining of your "brothers"

peace,
mitchum

[Perky]

42. No I am not foolish enough to think

that the CHurch as whole has been severely undermined by the pharisees. But I also know that it is not permanent, We have survived 2,000 years, certainly swayed with the winds,,,gone off the deep-end but I am comforted by and confident, that God in his splendid mercy and judgment will make things right.

And it is not as though I would expect the CHurch to swing radically to the ledt...Vhrisitianity's place in society is that of a moderating influence.. Which while certainly not amoral certainly should be apolitical.

The problem with the pharisees Isa that they believe that they can legislate their way to a moral socirty....they forget the first calling is to love, their second calling is to preach the Gospel their third calling is to do justice whereever their is injustice,

After all that....when they have done them, issues of morality would tend to take care of themselves. Thes bozos thin that the process begins with Morality...but in fact morality is the the resulting fruit rather than the seed.

[Skidmore]

33. A "majority"?

Does anyone know if there are any stats on exactly how many evangelicals there are in the nation? I doubt that they are anywhere close to being a majority, except for being told that they are by the likes of Falwell & Robertson.

[evilqueen]

34. yes

try http://www.religioustolerance.org for statistics.

I don't have the exact bookmark for the stats, but you might find much information on that site useful.

[Perky]

35. There was a pretty good article in Newweek this week with all sorts of st

[GoneOffShore]

38. Where can I buy a lion or two?

the only problem will be feeding them - especially if the only people who live in my neighborhood are Jews or Muslims.

[not fooled]

40. Now here are some persecuted Xtians...

...How's about IRAQ as soon as it becomes a Muslim theocracy?

So any fake christians in 'Murka who supported *'s little war, here's the result: the persecution of your fellow believers over there. Way to go!!!:silly:

[salin]

43. More than what the article says

it is also pumped up by radio-evangelicals - as a "sign" of the End Times (a way to keep their listeners scared and sending money) - they push that in the End Times Christians are persecuted - and now use any pushback to the efforts of evangelicals to codify their form of Christianity via government as "persecution." They pushed the effort of the Post Office to sell various stamps last Christmas representing different faith traditions as a sign of more "persecution." Why? Even if it is nonsensical - if I keep the drone going - folks stay mad, they stay scared and they keep sending money.

[JHB]

45. Yeah, its a persecution complex they've been carefully nurturing for...

...the last quarter-century.

[Nikki Stone 1]

46. Scripture tells them that they will be persecuted for their beliefs

So this is the prism through which they see EVERYTHING. They cannot admit their current power because it would contradict scripture.

[Jawja]

47. They feel "persecuted"

because they haven't been allowed to cram their religion down the rest of society's throat in the schools or other public venues. It's not enough that they have the freedom to believe and worship as they please; they require that everyone else believe and worship as they do.

Not ALL Christians, please. Just those that still feel "persecuted." They will always feel persecuted in America because they believe America MUST be a "Christian Nation" suited to their own beliefs.

[tlsmith1963]

48. They Should Feel Persecuted...

...because they deserve it. They have been horrible to everyone who doesn't agree with them for so long. What did they expect people to do, just put up with it?

Tammy

[Bridget Burke]

49. " Christianty Under Attack"-- A useful lie.

R J Rushdoony was a founder of the Christian Reconstruction movement that ranges beyond Evangelism or Fundamentalism. He wanted the US ruled by (his version of) Old Testament law. His heirs are carrying the torch:

An all-out assault has been launched to uproot the foundations of Christian civilization in America.

If you’re intellectually sensitive to the presuppositions underlying current events, you’ve already seen the explicit agenda of humanists to silence the Christian voice in America.

No doubt you are greatly disturbed by the efforts of secularists, pluralists, and false religious groups to remove the Judeo-Christian God “from every post and pillar.” The following is just a few of the wicked strategies imposed by such humanist organizations as the American Civil Liberties Union, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, and other secular and false religious groups....

www.chalcedon.edu/underwriters.php

Theocracy Watch is a good source: www.theocracywatch.org/

[noonwitch]

51. Christians in China are persecuted, as they are in many muslim countries

Here, some christians think they are being persecuted if they don't receive preferential treatment, like having their prayers said at government events and public school graduations.
No one is incarcerating them if they violate rules of separation of church and state. No one is taking their property, torturing them, killing them, or anything like that. The worst thing they face in this country is they get poked fun at on tv shows like "The Simpsons", and some of their schools are not fully accredited because they don't meet state or federal guidelines (like Bob Jones University). They make fun of liberals on that show, too.